Is it possible to homestead in Northern California?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

I'm a long-time reader of Countryside and I already owe you all many thanks for the advice and inspiration I've received over the years. My husband and I have been working toward our dream beyond the sidewalks, and just as it seems within reach I'm feeling discouraged. Here's why:

For some crazy reason I want to homestead in Northern California. The dream is a small dairy goat operation, draft horses, & bees - but I'd settle for a few acres to raise the kids, dogs and our food.

Unfortunately all my research tells me that Northern California is impossibly expensive. Prohibitively expensive. Out of the question expensive. So I think maybe I should let the dream go.

But, in the decade I've been reading Countryside, I think the most important thing I've learned is this: nothing is impossible, but you have to start small. So I'm starting small, with this email.

Can anyone offer me some support/advice/guidance on the possibilities of having a small farm in the Northern California area?

Huge thanks in advance.

-- Christine Webster (rubeewebster@earthlink.net), January 26, 2002

Answers

I haven't lived there, but I can tell you that there are several other successful goat dairies and operations there. You might consider visiting one of them for a few weeks in a busy time like kidding season, just helping without pay while you're there. If you still like it, great! If not, you won't have sunk a lot of money into something and then found it was too demanding.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 26, 2002.

Christine - we lived in Sonoma County (north of San Francisco) for 30+ years. I know we moved because of the land prices - even though we had a home it was very clear that our kids were NEVER going to be able to even afford a 3 bdrm apt. short of a major lottery win -so we relocated to SW Virginia and love it. If you are set on No. Cal - I would suggest you research land in Humboldt County or in the north of Sacramento for prices. I am not sure of the cost there - may be cheaper. Sonoma Co. was a GREAT place in the 60's - land went out of sight pricewise when HP moved a large contingent of people in from Silicon Valley. Housing prices increased terribly and have only gotten worse since mid-70's. So glad we were there when it was so great. Loved those hippies in SF during the summer of love; Janis Joplin and the Dead at Winterland, sailing on SF Bay, winery tours and free tastings,and the incredible seafood. Wow - those were the days - glad I was younger and had so much fun. All that fun would surely kill me now. Good Luck - Daisy.

-- Daisy (shaferd@msn.com), January 26, 2002.

Hi Christine, we live in the central sierra foothills in Mariposa County and land here is still affordable by California standards. We bought our 5 acres 6 years ago for under 30,000. Altho prices are up some you can still buy acerage for under 40,000, and I have seen older mobiles with land for under 100,000. Depends on the area. Anything on blacktop and all flat is more costly, if you go more remote the price falls dramatically. It's very rural living but there is a fairly good sized city for shopping only 45 miles away. If you have any specific questions I would be very happy to answer. You can email me direct. Good luck. California is still growing and getting more expensive all the time.

-- cindy palmer (jandcpalmer@sierratel.com), January 26, 2002.

Cindy: I just returned from the Redwoods area early this month. Land is anything but cheap. Older mobiles on acreage are outta sight. O'course you could just use them for storage, but the taxes aren't cheap either. Checked land as far south as Klamath River, Smith River, in Trinity & Del Norte Counties and over across the border into Oregon. Nothing at all cheap or less expensive. Matt

-- matt johnson (wyo_cowboy_us@yahoo.com), January 26, 2002.

Hello, We bought a place in Northern Ca. Tehama County. Places can still be found here for a reasonable price compared to other parts of Ca. We purchased a 2 bedroom house on 7 acres with irrigation, a 18x30 small barn, a 40x50 large barn, an 18x36 shop with a full RV hook up for $85,000. Yes, the place needed work and cleaned up but we love it. The area is growing so prices will go up sooner or later. There are still good deals out here if you don't mind older homes or trailers on land that need to be sprused up a bit. It doesn't snow here but it can get hot in the summer. We don't get the polution that further south in sacramento valley gets. Let me know if you want any more information on Tehama County and I will try to help.

-- shari (smillers@snowcrest.net), January 26, 2002.


I grew up in Eureka Calif and spent my summers in Redding and Red Bluff on a Appaloosa Ranch. My sister now lives in Sabastapool. I now live in south central Mo and like it much better here. It actually reminds me of the northern Calif. You get more weather season to season but boy you can afford anything out here. I just sold my land in Calif it was killing me.It was in the middle of no where. Alturas Calif north east calif. I with 5 other family members owned 4 acres, with a old broken down building on it. Our taxes were 1,000 a year!! Out here in Mo I have 9 acres with a well and old shed and the taxes are 2.75 yep you read that right. To get a car reg. it cost 30.oo and the insurance on a car is about half the price of calif. I LOVE MO!! Anyway I know people in northen calif who had 5 acres with a old moble home in the middle of now where and there moble burned down. They were charged 3,000 for the permits to put another moble on it and then it could not be one over 5 years old. Another person I knew sold there old moble to put a newer on on there place to find out when they went in to get there permit they were no longer aloud to put a moble on so they would have to bulid a house and the permits would run about 7,000. they ended up selling and moving out of state. I tell you it is hard to spit in the woods without a permit. My mom still lives just south of Eureka and manages some house rentals for a man and I here about the headacks she goes through all the time. Even in one area she had a house they were going to paint because the house was looking old and went in to get the permit and found out there was new restrictions in that area and she would have to wait 2 weeks till a committy meeting so they could take a vote on what color she would have to paint it. And it was out in the woods. I told her when you can't even paint your house the color you want it is time to move. The best prices you can get out there seem to be Hayfork north of Redding or Cottonwood, Anderson but you have to ask the county everytime you want to blow your nose!! I mean if you just wanted to put up a simple chicken house it would be a pain. And then you will have someone coming out to make sure you put it up right and it meets all the code reg. The crime out there is getting real bad to. My mom says alot of gangs out of San Fran have moved up into humbolt county and the cops even have to patrol the bingo parking lots so they don't get muged getting to there car.My dad worked for the county welfair office and it has one of the highest unemployment rates and more people on welfair in Eureka. For awhile my dad would come home and be real frustrated because if someone wanted to leave the area they would buy them the tickes to go. He said alot of them would be back a month later and he felt like they were useing the office to take vacations. They were just trying not to have to pay so many people. You couldn't pay me enough to live there again and I Love it. Just can't deal with the way it has changed. You really can get alot more for you money somwhere else. Oh and by the way have you heard how much elec. is out there now. My moms 2 bd apt runs her about 350. a month. Good Luck in your search for a homestead and sorry I have such bad thing to say but better you find out before you get there.

-- Teresa (c3ranch@socket.net), January 26, 2002.

Wow, Theresa, what a whole lot of useful information you had in that post!! Thank you so much! I've always had a nagging hankerin to live in Northern California.......I believe you may have gotten me started on the road to recovery from that obsession........

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), January 26, 2002.

Teresa, We live in Tehama County and have never had any problems like that!!!!!!!! I can build just about anything I want here. Even built a straw bale pump house and noone even batted an eye. Sorry that you had to have horrible experiences in CA.

-- shari (smillers@snowcrest.net), January 27, 2002.

There is still lots of affordable land in California. The extremely expensive areas are a small part of a very large state. Most states have areas that are expensive. I pay less for electricity here than back east or in Montana. Overall, save for a few crazy gun laws, California is less restrictive than back east. Zoning and permits are near non-existant in alot of rural areas. Livestock no problem in most places, even 1/2 acre lots have horses here. All of those problems Teresa mentioned can be found about anywhere. Nobody cares what color you paint your place unless you're in a historical district or walled community and they have those all over the US.

Since you're looking up north, here's one example from Humbolt and I've seen better deals;

15.34 acres with excellent 20 gallon per min. well. Private building site in place with perk test done. Power and phone lines to property. Easy access from Highway 36. Lots of doug-fir. $45,000 http://www.eaglestar.net/Eagle/blrck.html

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 27, 2002.


I have a cousin who lives in Tehema and she loves it! She has about 2 acres and a Trailer. I do know she said she built her dad a small house behind the trailer but man the last time I had been out there I was 17 when my grandfather ran the horses and the rodeo out there!! We had to dive down 10 miles of gravel road just to get there! I bet it has changed alot. When I talk about the permits it is for Humbolt co. Eureka and south along the coast to Willits. You right about Tehema tho it is beautiful and I rember swimming out there alot. Everytime I have tryed to find a place for sale on it I could only get about 2 acres and for what it would cost I could have 20 in Mo and the taxes out here are nothing. Don't get me wrong I love Calif, I was born and raised there and if I ever win the lotto I would go back in a min. But it just costs so much to live there now I can't do it on a 40,000 a year income and own a homestead with all the other costs calif brings. Out here I can have a homestead and put money in saveing for retirement.

-- Teresa (c3ranch@socket.net), January 27, 2002.


Hahaha I have seen that add to. It is in Humbolt and a hours drive down a bad mountain road to get to any work at all. It is where my best friends mom lives and everyone up there use to work for a wood mill and the mill closed so every one took the drive down to where my mom lives to work at the mill there and it closed this year. That property is by ruth lake and is nothing more that summer places with bad roads. I use to spend alot of time up there with a man I datted he now lives in Redding. Had to move to get work. The road from Redding to Ruth Lake is not passible all winter long.

-- Teresa (c3anch@socket.net), January 27, 2002.

California has gotten to be a place where the only people who can afford to live there are either rich (can afford to pay taxes and have money left) or are on welfare (and supported by those who pay taxes). The middle class folks are quickly getting squeezed out of the state because they're caught in the middle.

Sales taxes are high, personal income taxes are high, property taxes are high unless you have owned your home prior to 1978 (before Prop. 13 passed).

Also, depending on where you're from, you're going to get a bit of a shock when it comes to buying and selling property--the disclosures alone (about everything from condition of property to any "nuisances" you know or should know about) are a nightmare. Zoning restrictions also are bad, as others have said.

The further inland you go, the cheaper it should be--but then you can run into water problems, and the weather is warmer. Read somewhere that 3/4 of Californians live within an hour of the beach, so you can see why land would be expensive where you want to locate.

If you want to move to CA, win the lotto first! *grin*

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 28, 2002.


Hi Christine-My 2 cents for what it's worth. My wife and I live in Trinity Co(in the mts between Redding and Eureka). It is quite affordable here unlike the Bay area and the coast. We do have hotter summers and colder winters than those places. But winters are very mild compared to what I've experienced routinely in the northeast and midwest. The main drawbacks are distance from big ticket shopping and a poor rural economy.Just like all of the intermountain west.

As it turns out my wife and I will need to leave our homestead and move out east to be nearing ageing,ailing parents. To give you some idea of prices,we'd consider ourselves fortunate to get 75000 for our house and six acres. Just a totally different world than the coastal areas. Make sure you check water availability carefully. Good luck on your search. Howie

PS-alot of people "diss" California for all manner of reasons. We've found that taxes,electricity,rules and regs etc to be not nearly as bad as other places. In the rural areas anyway.

-- howie (biggguy79@hotmail.com), January 28, 2002.


Don't forget the smog (which means smog inspections) and high car tags as well.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 28, 2002.

Cindy palmer, were going to be neighbors! we just bought 2 1/2 acres by mariposa.Christine when we were looking we saw a nice 2 acres with septic and well for 30 thousand, it was nice but we have horses so we wanted a graze area but it would be great for goats.And 10 minutes and your in Yosimite!

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), January 28, 2002.


Christine, I live in the most expensive part of California and I love it here. The weather is beautiful, the people are the best I've met anywhere I 've travled in the continuous states, and the scenery is incredible. That said, I am in the long and slow process of doing research to move to Humboldt county or Sonora county, probably Humboldt because it was my growing up home. As I have read all the posts about the cost of living and cost of property I have been thinking about why I just don't go somewhere else. I quess I have to say why I stay here in the state 1. The smell of the ocean fog in the ancient redwoods on a cool summer morning 2. The sun setting over the ocean. 3. Rolling coastal mountains covered in trees 4 Rolling coastal plains that are golden brown in the summer and fertile green all winter. 5. Snow is a cause for rejoicing and awe, anytime it falls 6. Any geography I want to see is a day trip away, high mountains, deserts, valleys,forests,or city lights. 7. Sweater days in January are routine 8. Sweater days in June are routine 9. The sheer beauty of the melting pot of humanity and the clear voices of so many of the earth's native tongues 10 The raw beauty of San Fransisco on a foggy summer day Sometimes we live in a place not for the price of the property but in spite of it. If no one wanted to live in California it would be cheap to live here--which makes me wonder why land is so cheap in all those other places.??? Still planning MY homestead in the beauty of Norther California--betty

-- betty modin (betty_m9@yahoo.com), January 29, 2002.

Loved your answer betty! That pretty much somes it up about why we love california.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), January 29, 2002.

Betty, it sounds as though you don't live anywhere near downtown SF with panhandlers on every corner (I have friends out in SF that I visit often). It, and Santa Monica, I might add, have become magnets for the down and outers because of the liberal homeless policies. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy SF, but it has gotten worse over the years. I think I read recently that something like $40,000 a year is spent on each homeless person there, but I have no idea where the money goes.

I happened to see an article in National Geographic Magazine recently about the Silicon Valley, where their land prices are high too, and a lot of people are homeless on $60,000+ a year because they can't qualify for home loans. It is not unusual to have people purchase bus passes to sleep on the bus every night instead of on the streets. That is why I said the middle class is being squeezed out, because you make too much for government aid, yet have very little left after taxes. Living in the city itself, for example, having a lot of property isn't too much of an issue, since there are nice parks, lots of places to walk and so forth, but it is sad to see that people on welfare can get nicer housing than people who are working for a living.

Christine, places like Sebastopol, Guerneville, Cotati, Petaluma, etc., are all very nice (but prices are still sky high), but when you have to go somewhere there is not much in the way of public transportation (BART does not run to the north bay, for example), so it is a bridge toll here and a bridge toll there if you are going to the east bay or south bay for anything.

I think more and more people are looking at themselves in the mirror and asking "If I want to live (in the bay area/northern CA) here, what am I willing to give up, compared to living somewhere else?" It's a hard question to answer, particularly when there are other family members involved. Good luck in your decision-making process.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 29, 2002.


panhandlers are in all urban areas all over the US. I go to Santa Monica(I'm in the LA area) occasionally and don't see much of a problem there with panhandlers, no worse than any other comparable area.

Betty brought up some good points. Overall I love it here. This is a big place that goes from one extreme to the other. An acre of raw land can go from $100(mojave) to $12million(orange co). A happy medium can be found in there.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 29, 2002.


Just wanted to say thanks for all your thoughts.

I think we will really look into Mariposa County, and still hold out some hope for Sonoma.

I'll keep you posted. For now, many thanks. Feel free to keep the advice coming.

I'm proud to be a part of this community.

-Christine

-- Christine Webster (rubeewebster@earthlink.net), February 01, 2002.


We bought a wonderful ranch in Modoc Copunty (the NE corner of California - you can spit and almost hit Oregon and Nevada from the front porch!)

Good, fertile land up here runs about $1000 an acre -- we have 100 acres with 2 wells,a 40 X 60 barn and a 4-bedroom house in good condition - $130,000.

We were attracted to the area mostly because it is (sparsley) populated by hardy, self-sufficient people -- VERY few welfare or "hobby farmers" here.

It is a 4-season area but neither the winters or summers are extreme.

The ONLY real drawback is we are still in California! The northern counties are not well-represented in the state govt -- we tend to be much more conservative and state law/policies/budget is too much determined by LA and Bay Area liberals.....We have solved it by husband working (established residency) in Nevada....but some of the craziness emanating from Sacramento still grates (for example: taxpayers subsidizing illegal aliens in the state college/university system.)

Anyway, Modoc is always happy to welcome newcomers -- it's a friendly, affordable, beautiful and remote place (heck, we still have annual cattle drives down main street in my town -- and there isn't ONE traffic light or fast food franchise in the county!)

-- Elizabeth (mamapoots55@hotmail.com), February 03, 2002.


Hi Christine, We've lived in Humboldt County for 20 years and we love it. We enjoy the temperate climate, the redwoods and the ocean, BUT I would not recommend it here for someone "starting out". It is EXTREMELY expensive compared to what I've seen in most of the US (rural land). We have a small (2 bedroom) custom house on 10 acres of rocky redwood- studded property (not good for anything except growing redwood trees) and the place is valued at $379,000..We've been looking around locally because we would like a place with some decent pasture land but everything is priced sky high! We looked down in Ferndale at 2 beautiful flat farm acres but the house was practically unlivable and the price was $279,000...I dont know..There is no real way to make money here either. Our place is worth alot but we owe alot and everything here costs alot! I would read the post above from the person who used to live here and moved to Missouri and loves it!

-- George (george@girlgeorge.com), March 30, 2002.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ