We are in the process of finding "our place".We have narrowed it down to the following states;TN,NC,KY,and maybe VA.The reasons are many and varied including closeness to family ,weather as well as others.What is everyones opinions of these states?How do you feel as far as land prices,taxes,population density?We want a less complicated life but would still need to find work off the land unfortunately.We just came back from a whirlwind trip to NE tenn. and it seemed a promising area.I lean toward KY,not sure why as I haven't really seen much of it.My wife likes NC but I think it is WAY too expensive,but tell me if I'm wrong.Thanks Jon

-- Jon Hanson (warpaint@islc.net), January 22, 2002

Answers

Jon-

I just moved to NC from Boulder,Colorado so nothing could seem expensive here. We came here to find a homestead, we just got up and moved because we had jobs to transfer to. The biggest thing if you are going to have to work outside of the farm is "What do you do for a living?". I was born and raised in Kentucky. There is some beautiful land there and right now there is almost 100 acres for sale in the area my family is from for only $45,000. The landscape is perfect for me. Steep hills and lowlying valleys with streams. My mother wants me to come back there, but that is not where I want to be. Much of November through March is cloudy and cold rain (that says it for the Seasonal Depression i suffered from). There is not much for Corporate buisness though. I love Kentucky, it will always be my home, but there has never been a lot of big-money there. although if you have a specialty or trade then you can easily do well because of the low cost of EVERYTHING. I've been in NC for five months and love it. The weather is wonderful, lots of sun....average highs around 50 most of the winter. Everything here is more expensive compared to Kentucky, but the higher wages more than compensate for the difference. I'm in Central NC, it is much too flat here for me. The farming is great, but I need those hills so we'll be moving towards those appalachians as soon as we have our money saved.

Whatever you do.... take a nice long drive around the Southeastern part of the US and see for yourself before you pick up your family and move to Beverly. It has not been easy for us.... you never know what will happen.

-- aaron snowden (noexit_ever@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.

You may hear the agrument that TN doesn't have a state income tax. True, but we have have a high sales tax on just about everything, including groceries. Looks like it will be raised another one percent to a maximum of 9.5% in cities since the state is running a major deficit. Those who live near another state with an income tax do all of the shopping they can there.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 22, 2002.

Take Virginia off your list. Land here is sky high and price is ever climbing. We are renting a small place in the Allegheny's right now but we are also looking for our homestead. And we are interested in the same sort of land you are - in some mountains.

Have been thinking about trying to get a small group of people together to go in on buying a big piece of land and then dividing it. Large tracts are much less expensive per acre than the 10 to 20 acre tracts like we want to meet our needs.

Anyone interested?

-- Carol - in Virginia (carollm@rockbridge.net), January 22, 2002.

Thanks for the replies so far.The area of VA we looked at was around Clarksville I believe.Price seemed reasonable but it wasn't mountainous,more hilly/rolling.We just didn't seem to find "IT".As far as the high sales tax in TN ,we pay 5 or 6% sales tax in my county and in the county I work in they pay 9%.We also have state income tax on top of that AND high property tax(I think)as well as high insurance rates for both cars and home!!!There is NO land available here for less than 10,000-15,000 an acre and no parcels larger than 2 acres or so.Everything has been turned into subdivision and gated subdivisions for the transplants.Supposedly we are THE best place to retire to,it must be because of all the golf courses.LOL I would be interested in the land in KY that you know about if it is not too far away from SC as we are trying to find land we could at least visit on weekends.Our plan is to buy now and then move in the next few years.We have been looking for the last few years and have been throughout the SE.

-- Jon Hanson (warpaint@islc.net), January 22, 2002.

I am not sure where you are Carol, but in July we moved from FL to Virginia and land is cheap where I am! We live near Wytheville just off the I-81 - I77 interchange. About 1/2 hr. from Bluefield, WV, 1/2 from the NC line, an hour from Roanoke and and about 45 from the TN line. Up here in the mountains away from the rest of world with the most beautiful view but have all the city conveniece close by like doctors, emt, Walmart, and the like.

We have a 75 year old restored 10 room farmhouse with full basement and full attic, 17 acres (all fenced), pond, orchard, huge garden, chicken coop, big 2 story barn, lots of outbuildings, new septic tank and drain field, good well, a spring down by the pond that is capped and brought into the house for backup water source, & 2 car garage. We paid $100,000. Also, taxes on the place are only $300 a year; sales tax is 4.5%.

Folks are very friendly here, good roads, good use of taxes, and lots of activities and festivals in this area.

Many years ago we also homesteaded near N. Wilksboro, NC. It is very nice there also, but people weren't as nice as they are here and things are more expensive in NC but we like there also.

Here is my best advice: Any place you go there will be good and bad. It is a hard choice. Go with where you feel most at home and where you believe you could easily live out the rest of your life. As far as the finaces go, of course you want the most bang for your buck...but how you feel about a place and how comfortable you are there will effect you a hundred times more than the money.

Decide on an area based up your "feelings". No matter where you decide you can always find a place within your budget if you take your time and keep looking. Bargains are out there in any state and area.

Also in your decision you need to remember to keep in mind what your comfort level is with the weather, terrine, and planting zone. Also, if you want livestock. And remember what we all have learned..usually the hard way...a good barn is better than a good house! LOL. Best of luck to you and let us know what you decide.

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.

I dont understand why most people want to move "south",land is expensive, tax the crap out of you,, from moter vehicle taxes,, high sales tax,, city tax, water tax,,ect. There is longer growing seasons comparied to here in Mich,,, but you have more rights,less taxes, land is cheaper,, and alot is still unspoiled, work is more available,,even in the middle of nowhere.

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), January 22, 2002.

The main reason we aren't looking up north is the weather plain and simple.I am from Australia and my wife is from SC so thats why in our case.We did actually look at the south west when we were on a vacation RVing but it was not to be.Being "not from here" makes it easier to look at places and not have any bias to any one area.For example,my wife will not even consider WV but to me its just another place.The same goes for MO and AR.Also having none of my family here makes it a lot easier to move far from SC.I have thought of the idea of a "group buy" and it would be a good idea if it was all arranged ahead of time.I have found some very large parcels that seemed well suited to dividing but we know no one who would be interested in it.

-- Jon Hanson (warpaint@islc.net), January 22, 2002.

I am from E. Tenn but am partial to middle Tenn especially the area around Cookeville. Cookeville is right off I-40 half way between Knoxville and Nashville. It has a population of around 25-30k with a midsize university which offers numerous educational, culture and sporting opportunities. Cookeville sets on the cumberland plateau which is pretty hilly and has 4 mild seasons. The average growing season is 190 days. If you like to fish there are many rivers, lakes and streams in the area. If you would like to go camping with your horse there is excellant place for that in the Big South Fork Recreational Park. Property in and around Cookeville is fairly expensive, although I did notice on United Country Real Estate's website that there is 12.5 acres with barn and a good srping for sale for 15.9k. If you get out in the surrounding counties, you should be able to find some reasonably priced land. If you ever get a chance to explore this area, you will not regret it.

Good luck in your search.

-- Lee in sw MO (larnold88@hotmail.com), January 22, 2002.

If anyone would be interested in a group "buy" we have 160 acres in MO that we would consider for a group of homesteaders. There is a large pasture, barn, woods, 2 springs, etc. Would consider spliting and selling all or part of it. New house, double-car garage with double carport - nice place just too much land for us.

-- Dottie Shafer (Shaferd@msn.com), January 22, 2002.

Jon, I can't tell you where to reside. That's what you need to decide for yourself and your family. Like Stan, I have strong feelings for the north country, where I was raised. I & my family have lived all over the country and the world, travelling with the military and as an engineer, only to come back to my birthplace. It's where I'm supposed to be. It's where I have friends, very few neighbors and I'm happiest. Living up high in the mountains has it's drawbacks and sometimes the weather sucks (like our 3-ft of snow and -18F), but the sun shines 300-days a year, it's cold and crisp 7-months of the year and when that summer week comes, it's a time to rejoice.

-- matt johnson (wyo_cowboy_us@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.

Expensive is a relative term. Sky-high priced land in VA would probably look like a bargain compared to most of southern California. I'm sure parts of VA are overpriced but other areas are dirt-cheap. Same with NC and every other state in the US. The area of VA that Karen mentioned could have what you're looking for Jon. It's close to the areas you're looking in, there's mountains and it's reasonably priced. I lived around there for a few years, no complaints. Employment probably isn't ideal around there unless you're a woodworker(furniture mills) or make your own employment.

Jon, I'm curious why your wife won't even consider WV. It is the distance or some other reason like her concept of that state? There's some real bargains on farms around there and parts of Ohio. I've lived in alot of different areas of the US. Appalachia, midwest, deep south, high plains/rockies, pacific coast, desolate rural to major city and although the scenery changes, most everything is the same no matter where you are.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 22, 2002.

Yall listen to Stan.

-- paul (primrose@centex.net), January 22, 2002.

Other things to consider too are how far away do you want to be from necessities (doctors, your health insurance, groceries, schools, etc.) and nice to haves (like cable internet (or even just dial up) if you have it where you are now). I know people who do not have internet at all because there is maybe only ONE provider of dial-up service for the area, and no, it is NOT the local phone company, so there is no such thing as 24-hour tech support. Very unreliable.

The how far away you are question also becomes an issue with gas prices (high due to lack of competition and just because you're driving a lot more), car insurance prices, and so forth (the more miles you put on a car, the more often you have to replace it). The further out you are, it seems the more negative people are towards public transit of any sort. Driving is great while you still can do it, or you have friends/ relatives who will happily take you places, but if you live long enough there comes a point in one's life where it is no longer safe to drive, and how do you plan to get around then?

Depending on your outside income, you may or may not pay state income tax, and each state is different. However, you will be paying property taxes unless you qualify for some exemption, and it is amazing how many people will vote for property tax increases (school levies, for example) when they don't pay property taxes themselves. So you might want to look at statistics such as median family income and how many rent vs. own their homes.

You and your wife, if you haven't already, might want to make separate like/don't like lists and see how close or far apart you are, and where you can compromise.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 22, 2002.

One more thing about health insurance, if your job is tied to a certain company or state, that can sometimes mean you are stuck in that state because your health insurance is only good there. I know people in that situation--maybe someday laws will address this issue but they don't now. Even within the same state, not all health plans are available.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 22, 2002.

I'd say try to talk your wife into WV. Nice people, cheap land, beautiful landscape (it's really not as backwards here as people tend to think ;>) I grew up in NC and lived in VA for a few years too. Didn't like eastern NC (the area I lived in was very close-minded, if you didn't belong to the baptist church, you diidn't really exist) but I hear western NC is nice. Northern VA is beautiful, my parents still live there, but it's very expensive. Good luck!

-- Elizabeth (lividia66@aol.com), January 22, 2002.

Here In S.E. OK. (2 hrs south of Tulsa, 3 hrs east of OKC, 3 hrs north of Dallas) is the cheapest place I have ever lived. My husband's job has moved us a lot too! I have 300 beautiful acres with a newer house and barn for not much more than the few acres and newer home in Ill. Although, I miss Ill. (friends). There is wide open land that is fertile in OK. I think most people (me including at one time) think of OK as a dust bowl. I guess it might be in the pan handle but that is way on the otherside of OKC. Debbie

-- debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), January 22, 2002.

I live in VA moved here from Michigan 23 years ago. I used to live in Northern VA, but moved down the S. Central VA about 16+ years ago. I love it here. The climate is nice, 4 seasons but none too extreme. Our property was VERY cheap we have 75 acres and a pre- civil war log house (which we've done tons & tons of work on--we've had the place 20 years, but have only lived here for a little over 16). Our taxes are supercheap. The people are friendly, I love it. I personally think VA is a great place to live. We do love the Southwest scenery, but cannot move west due to the way we make our living. We do craft shows and the east is a better place for that.

-- Sharon (spangenberg@hovac.com), January 22, 2002.

Jon, listen to Lee. Cookeville is a great place to live. We lived there for 10 years until my husband got a job offer "he just couldn't refuse". We are now trying to find a way to get back home. Yes, TN does have a sales tax but I'll take that over income tax, personal property tax, school tax in all utility bills any day. The Cumberland Plateau is beautiful, just the right terrain not too mountainous not too flat. Hey Ken how much were your car tags this year??? Our's is based on the value of the car. Luckily I have an old car so not much value. But our neighbor here recently bought a new car and her tags were almost $1000(yes that's THOUSAND), and that's every year!!! I'll take TN sales tax and Putnam county $21 car tags anyday!!!!

-- Lou Ann in KY (homes_cool@msn.com), January 22, 2002.

Hi Jon, I vote for NC. I've lived here all my 54 1/2 years and I love it. You have the ocean to the east and mountains to the west. We have long growing seasons and it doesn't really get too hot or too cold. It was warm enough to work outside up until almost Christmas this year. We have had one nice snowfall since Christmas but the weather is warming up again. I live in a rural county, it is the largest county in NC. There are a lot of undeveloped properties here. There are so many abandoned homes around here that it's a shame. I'm within an hours drive of major shopping malls on all four sides. I don't think NC is expensive unless you move close to one of the big cities. Our sales tax is 6.5 and our licsense plates are $21. Try us, you'll like us.

Sheila

-- Sheila Smith (nannie@intrstar.net), January 22, 2002.

TN is the place if you ask me. I'm a transplant from NJ, but my wife was born here. We live in Kingston, just west of Knoxville, and I thank God every day for being here. Sales tax is high, but I'd rather pay sales tax and $20 tag fees than income tax, school tax, outrageous car insurance, etc. And land can be as expensive or as cheap as you want. Here in town, on the river or the lake, I've seen it going for as much as $21,000 an acre. But go 20 minutes out of town, and I've seen it as low as $800 an acre.

Cookeville is a good place too, we have family there, though I'm partial to the White Pine / Dandridge area east of Knoxville personally.

Good luck in your search!

-- Eric in TN (eric_m_stone@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.

Hi Jon,

Sorry your wife won't even consider AR because we think it is pretty special. My husband is from England and we lived there several years, we have also lived in MA, FL and WI. While rural AR has many challenges if you are serious about homesteading it has several definite advantages. If you want to hear more just email me privately as my email is legit. Both of us have science Ph.D.'s and while we sometimes feel isolated here there is a neat homesteading community.

Kim

-- kim (fleece@eritter.net), January 22, 2002.

I live in Kentucky... we moved here 6 1/2 years ago. There are lots of people who are chronic slobs and litter like there is no tomorrow. They are the worst drivers you ever saw. They all think they are the world's next nascar champion. Stupid stupid! On the other hand, some of the nicest people I ever met are here. along with some very intelligent folks as well. They are not all white trash, it is the few that make everyone look bad.Building codes stink. You will see a $2500.00 mobile home right next to a $100,000.00 house and they can't stop them. There is also the lack of good law enforcement as well. In Wisconsin it was the Gestapo type police, here it is too far to the other extreme. Crooked judges,crooked cops etc...This is a beautiful state, the weather is great, the land is very reasonable, taxes are super reasonable (except for motor vehicles). I guess they gotta "get ya" one way or another. As for employment... you need to be near the bigger cities for any kind of decent pay. Where I live the locals say... " $8.50 per hour is good for around here" (we all know it isn't) We love it here and will more than likely stay here the rest of our lives. I think it is a great place to raise kids as well. No matter where you go there is going to be something that chafes you. If we could ever get the littering problem and driver problem cured,it would be fantastic.Maybe mandatory garbage pickup, and minimum IQ standards for driver licensing???

-- Anonymous Reader (rather@notsay.net), January 22, 2002.

Thanks for all the replies,its nice to hear from other people who are doing the same thing.Or at least trying to.WV is not really in the running because my wife has a brother in law from there and he's not the brightest bulb.We actually have looked at land in Cookeville TN but didn't find anything in our price range.We are trying to stay within about 8 hrs drive of our present location so we can work on the land on our weekends.We plan to move in the next few years once the equity is built up in our present house.The problem I have with NC is comparable land in say TN or KY is much cheaper.Maybe we are looking in the wrong place!!!

-- Jon Hanson (warpaint@islc.net), January 22, 2002.

I wasn't born in WV , but I got here as soon as I could !

-- Elizabeth Quintana (rockshelter@webtv.com), January 23, 2002.

Jon, if you are serious about the Cookeville area look around Monterey or south of Cookeville such as Sparta. We own 10 acres there and you can definately find rasonable land in that area. If you go with a real estate agent in that area STAY AWAY from American Way. Long story involving lawsuit!!! Cookeville is growing at a rapid rate therefore prices are also increasing but the surrounding areas are still reasonable. If youbwant more specific info just let me know. Actually I think there is 5-10 acres for sale next to our land about 15 miles from Sparta.

-- Lou Ann in KY (homes_cool@msn.com), January 23, 2002.

I have to give WV my vote even though it is not a place you are considering, we are from NJ and moved here in July 2001 and love it. We are in the central part of the state and it is pretty normal, I love it propeerty taxes are cheap and the schools are good my DD loves it and she knows everyone in the school. Look into it the north central part of the state we are close to clarksburg (45 min) fairmont (1 hour) and Morgantown (2 hours)

-- sonneyacres (jtgt12@ntelos.net), January 24, 2002.

I dont understand why most people want to move "south",land is expensive, tax the crap out of you,, from moter vehicle taxes,, high sales tax,, city tax, water tax,,ect. There is longer growing seasons comparied to here in Mich,,, but you have more rights,less taxes, land is cheaper,, and alot is still unspoiled, work is more available,,even in the middle of nowhere.

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), January 22, 2002.

List to Stan. North, you want to move North!

Taxes, alligators, snakes, mosquitoes, hurricanes! Much better up North (or so all these Damn Yankees who've been moving to Florida all of my life keep telling me).

..........Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), January 24, 2002.

Have you considered Louisiana? My wife drove through the western side of that state this summer and loved it. Extremely rural, lots of pine woods (loggin industry very popular) and is reputed to have cheap land, very liberal homesteading applications, great hunting and fishing opportunities, very low taxes. Downsides: hurricane season, damn humid in the summertime, limited employment opportunities. Is cheap living as long as you stay away from big cities (New Orleans,and Shreveport). At least from what I have heard anyway.

-- j.r. guerra in s. tx. (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), January 25, 2002.

Why do you want to move South??? It is hot, humid, and has a textile mentality in most places (in other words, low pay..no unions to protect you down here) and there are the inevitable tornadoes which seem to rip right through with regularity. You can get high pay (if you want to live in the city... or commute there).

I know, lived in the south for such a long time, no winter to speak of, usually no snow. We say we have four seasons: hot, hotter and hottest, the fourth cold combined with wet, wetter, and wettest. Or just hot and drought..take your pick - guaranteed to have one or the other at any given time.

But if I had to choose, I'd elect TN. Lower taxes. You might not think about taxes much - but if they are high and you are having to work a lower end job - those huge tax bills really bite. Pay attention to those who live down here...you might have more sales tax in TN, but at least you aren't shelling out for property, school, tags, and every other tax some politician can lay on you. I will be leaving GA as soon as relatives permit (young boychild and elderly mother). I want to be either out west or up north or both.

My vote is TN.

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), January 25, 2002.

jon-

i think you asked a question with no answer. actually im glad that you did and not me now that i think about it.

it is wonderful to hear so many people feeling they are in the perfect place. im not even sure where i want to move now, which could be looked at as a good thing. we seem to all have this special place in our heart that some have already found and others (like us) are so intent on finding. it is ALL i think about. mine is a long decade story, but now i search almost everyday. i have the classifieds of twenty newspapers bookmarked so that i can check occasionally for new properties. i am looking to buy next spring. i have a year to plan, a year to save, and a year to dream. like many here, although the 10-20 acres would suffice, i am looking for a larger parcel to live on. there is some family of mine that had been interested in buying a large piece of land and splitting it, but they are not interested in sooner than later. they are wanting to retire on land at 65 and im planning on retiring on my land at 32. granted- not actually being able to retire is what is dragging my search.

there are some pieces of land of 300 acres for $400,000. to me that is a great deal, yet we need about 5 of us to go in on it and each get 60 acres. the best part of buying a such large parcel is that you control who and what is directly developed around you. if anyone is seriously interested in joining homesteads let me know. it does not really matter where as long as there are some steep hills and valleys and there is a more moderately mild climate. the most important thing for my family is that we can "almost" disappear from the congested and confused 21st century idealogies and lost culture.

i believe that when you (and i for that matter) find where we want to be, it will be because we have made it that. i am envious of these homesteaders that would not ever want to be anywhere else....because they are in twenty different regions or areas of this country. that just suggests to me that we will find our home, we dont know where or when, but when we do we will know it. then nothing else will matter to us.

good luck to all of us frontiersmen and women still pulling that wagon around in circles searching for that plot of perfect land. luckily for all of us, perfect is something different for everyone.

take care jon and good luck.

-aa

-- aaron snowden (noexit_ever@yahoo.com), January 26, 2002.

I've lived most of my life (save for a brief stint stationed in the military all over the U.S. and half of Europe)in East and Middle Tennessee and I just bought a 20-acre hill farm in a tiny town about 8 miles west of Cookeville with a 1700 sq. ft house, a 28' x 36' garage, an 18' x 22' barn, and 3 smallish (10' x 18') sheds, and 3 well-fenced pastures for $79,700. Sales tax is high and it is applied to dad-blame near everything you buy, but you can't beat TN for property tax rates or for the fact that the Government isn't taxing your income twice yet (Federal, then State). Cookeville proper you don't want to try and buy land/property in; but, around Cookeville--say, within 15 miles of--you can get land EXTREMELY cheap. Someone else has already extolled the virtues of the mildly cultural scene in the Upper Cumberland area and I add my half-a-crown to that. It's a great place to live--as long as you keep to yourself and are decently quiet. There are elements to living in TN that can be annoying at best and dangerous at worst, however. Rural TN in places within 10 minutes of me can be dangerous places to go if you have a particular skin color, sexual preference, or general attitude toward women...

-- Shannon D. (fingolfin@multipro.com), March 05, 2002.