How many of you have either been working around the house or have just gotten out of work and are quite grubby looking but need something at the store so just go to the store the way you are and have been treated by the employees at the store like you are scum?

I have noticed that if for some reason I need to go to a store and I do not have time to get cleaned up I am treated like I am there to take everyone hostage and empty the cash register. Yet, if I am able to shower and change what a difference in the way I am treated. You would almost think I went from a popper to a king. I find it nvery insulting and think that some business owners would do better for their business if they were to inform these employees that as long as the person is paying for what they get then they are all to be treated as equals.

Another thing that drives me nuts is when the cashier is talking on the phone (personal call) and rings me up and gives me my change without even looking at me or saying a word. I really do wonder when these employers are going to smarten up and either shape their employees up or ship them out.

I deal with the public for a living and I will tell you no matter what type of day I'm having I always let the customer know that we are happy they are doing business with us instead of our competetor down the street and what has happened because of the way I treat our customers? We went from doing an average of $1,200.00 a day in business to an average of $16,000.00 per week and the customers say that if I leave they leave because they remember what it was like before I came along. I have customers call the shop just to see how I'm doing and they let it be known that if I leave they leave too. That makes a person feel pretty good and it makes me wonder if the people who are poor with the public ever stop to think of the business they are driving away. I treat all customers with a very friendly manner. I know who likes to joke who likes to be serious and who likes to throw punches. At our shop no one ever says the shops customers they always call them George's customers. I have dealt with the public since my first job and gosh sometimes when I get a rude person that waits on me I want to take them back to the shop with me and say watch how this customer relations thing should be.

I have found that the most polite people work shops that have deal with people who farm or garden.

I bring this up because I believe that since we all work at homesteading to some degree each of us have had to at one time or another make a quick trip to the store looking a mess.

-- george (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), January 15, 2002

Answers

Does anyone know how to count change back anymore???? The register tells them how much change to give back and they just hand it to you! Many of them still give you the wrong change even when the figuring is done for them!

-- Mark in N.C. Fla. (deadgoatman@webtv.net), January 15, 2002.

I will go to stores where prices are a little higher but sales staff are more polite. Our smaller local hardware store has higher prices, but they will special order things for you, they will give you instalation advice, they will load up the truck, and they will run a tab,best of all they say "Hey, how ya doin'" when I walk in the frount door. And practically everybody in the place looks like they've just comein out of the field or off the job site! You don't get that at Lowes-or at least the Lowes around here.

The other discrimination is against people on food stamps or WIC-we managed to avoid the food stamps, but once when the kids were babies we did WIC for a short amount of time. I could have gone to town looking like the Queen,but you pull out a WIC voucher and see how you are treated! Once, I went into a store and paid cash for some item, but in pulling out my wallet the cashier saw my WIC vouchers-she actually sneered!

-- Kelly (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 15, 2002.

Mark, how about when the register tells them change due and they still don't know how much to give you back and you have to tell them and then they treat you like the loser.

Before anyone gets mad at me I want to say that not all people who work in stores are this way. There are some great people who work in stores who would be better off owning their own store. George

-- george (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), January 15, 2002.

Remember the old SNL spoof of the Citibank commercial- the one where they advertised their change making service? The slogan was something like- we make change, it's all we do. When asked how they made any money, the response was "volume". Well, a few years ago my best friend (at work) and I decided that we should starta company whose sole purpose was to provide service. When asked what kind os service, we replied- any kind. We figured people would be so happy to receive good service that they would gladly pay a premium for it!

As for going to the store in my yard clothes, I take a perverse pleasure in the knowledge that I earn easily 20x the money at my job as any clerk or sales person who waits on me in a store- I can easily handle a little condescension from them.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), January 15, 2002.

How about when the bill is say 6.13 and you give them 6.28 and they look at you like you are nuts. Then you explain you gave it to them to use up some pennies and they say " but its only 6.13 ! "

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), January 15, 2002.

after working a 16 hour day,,I like to go into those "yuppie" grocery stores, the kind with a coffee shop insode and such,, get what I need,, and when I get the dirty looks,, I hand them a 100 for 5 bucks worth of groceries,, and make them count it twice,, say something like,, last time I was here, the cashier couldnt count to 100 :)

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), January 15, 2002.

Always two sides to everything....

I don't mind grubby, but I do wish people would at least take the time to wash their hands. As anyone who works with money on a daily basis (cashiers, bank tellers, etc.) can tell you, a lot of germs are passed through the handling of money.

Another gripe is parents who put their "obvious to everyone in the room that they need to be changed" kid in soiled/leaky diaper on top of the counter, where people count money, write out paperwork, etc. More germs. I don't mind relatively clean kids on counters, but gee....

Parents who let their kids run around loose. One day I smiled and politely said, "Honey, please don't run around the room this way, you could run into something and get hurt. Thanks sweetie." The father yelled "Don't (f......) yell at my kid." I just couldn't believe it, but you know if the kid fell down or ran into something the father would be the first to sue....

I too have seen the personal calls and the "use the machine to make change instead of your brain" people. Sometimes, believe it or not, the employer tells cashiers to use the machine for all transactions. But you can tell the ones who know what they're doing, they count back the change to you, whereas the others don't.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 15, 2002.

I have never had that problem in our small town as most everyone in the stores knows me. I even went to our local grocery when I helping change out an engine and the cashier went to the milk cooler for me, so I wouldn't get the jug dirty. Just one more reason to live somplace with a population under 20,000.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 15, 2002.

I also am unimpressed with the customer service sector of our country. I was a waitress for 12 years ( long ago...LOL ) and I made more tips in one night than the average co-worker made in a week. its called CUSTOMER service. Most employees dont get that.

-- Kristean Thompson (pigalena_babe@yahoo.com), January 15, 2002.

Remember you are the customerand if you dont like what you are getting then do something !1. tell the manager he probably doesnt know (if hes only 16, call the owner he really doesnt know )lastly if its the owner find another store to shop because it will be going out of bussiness anyway. But then there you are you being polite when you come in all dirty , would you like it if others were there that looked like you the help may be poor but we are better than that I take off my dirty jacket or coveralls to walk in a store because the other people there deserve my respect and the best way to get it is to give it. P.s. what is your rush?

-- leroy hamann (yorel_56714@yahoo.com), January 15, 2002.

Leroy, I'm sorry if I'm taking this the wrong way but it seems like you have turned the tables and now it is the fault of the working person that they are being treated poorly by the people who chose a job where they will deal with people of all walks of life all day.

Sorry, but if I happen to take my cover alls off and I have nothing on underneath than I'm sure I would be laughed right out the door. I'm not stupid I know what they would see :-)

I also would like to point out that a lot of the people who wait on me do not look like they just stepped out og G.Q. or Cosmo.

And, no it does not bother me if I am in a store and I am cleaned up and there is a dirty looking farmer in there. Heck, I am smart enough to know he/she is a hard working person.

My hurry is that I am a very busy person and I don't have enough hours in the day to do everything I would like to so at times I have to do what I have to do to get things done and if this means go to the store in work cloths then so be it. My money is good no matter if I'm dirty from working at a dirty job or clean from working at a clean job. The fact of the matter is that whoever you are you had to work darned hard for that money and the business where you spend it should appriciate you simply because you chose them to do business with instead of their competetor down the road.

Have you ever tried to contact the person in charge? Hard to get the right information on who is in charge if you are gathering the information from the person you plan to complain about.George

-- george (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), January 15, 2002.

George, I, also, had reached a point where I was so tired of going into the store anywhere because of the lack of customer service. Well, then, I decided that if I would only bring it to the attention of the owner/manager everytime I went in....So, I tried it. I very, very politely, without malice started going to the manager (and if that didn't work I called the owner, etc)and very sweetly telling them that I truly didn't feel like I paid anyones' wages in there if I was ignored firstly, and if the employee was yabbering on the phone while she/he was to be waiting on me. I firstly did that. If the next time I went in, I would talk to the employee, in front of the manager...and the next time (if needed) I would get the number of the owner/company head and the better business bureau always came out of my mouth. I never, ever got nasty. Just polite but earnest. I have had wonderful results from this. I am welcomed in these places, and served well. There are those places/and or employees who see me come in the door and want to hide, or roll their eyes, but, I am treated like a customer should be. In His Grace, Sissy

-- Sissy Sylvester-Barth (iblong2Him@ilovejesus.net), January 15, 2002.

Ok how about civil servents . I have found them to be the biggest , rudest idiots around .Yes I know there are some good ones .Do they forget who pays there salaries ? Us !!!!!

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), January 15, 2002.

One day a cousin and I went deer hunting in a game reserve about an hours drive from our home. At the end of the day on our way home we stopped at a McDonald's resturant in a little college town to get us something to eat. We went inside so we could relax a little bit while we ate. McDonalds served us with no problem, but inside was a bunch of uptown college kids. Since cuz and I were dressed in camoflage the college kids starting snickering, laughing and talking in low voices about how dumb we must be. A couple of the boys were getting real cocky at times. We just set down at a table and ate our food anyway. We figured since we both had our skinning knives strapped to our belts they wouldn't be to big of a threat if they got to cocky.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), January 15, 2002.

True story: my uncle is a very successful farmer. One day in the field his truck died. He decided to go buy a new one. Went to the dealer and they told him they didn't have anything he could afford ( he looked like a poor farmer in his dirty work clothes). He went to another dealer and they sold him a top of the line truck with all the extras. He paid CASH in full for the truck. The first dealer lost the easiest sell of his life just becausse he judged someone by his appearance. Another true story: I have done a lot of fast food work and I have actually had co-workers tell me to stop being so nice to the customers because it was making everyone else look bad!!! I would do such things as say "hello", "Thank You" , and "Have a nice day". As for being able to count money, most kids can't because it is not taught in school. Once again someday homeschoolers will rule the world.

-- Lou Ann in KY (homes_cool@msn.com), January 15, 2002.

STOP, PLEASE...the laughter hurts my tummy. What a great thread! If I want top notch service I do my hair, put on makeup, dress in a conservative business suit, my best shoes, hosery and expensive coat (from the resale shop) and go to the city. I also act like I own a jet, a jag and 10 Arabian stallions. I get the BEST service AND the best prices that way. Takes more work but what works, works. I'm not gonna change the world so I'll go along with this one. Weird how I never thought how unfair it is, just thought that's the way it was done! Must be one of the reasons I'm leaving for the sticks. Goodbye phoney people, hello REAL world (read, real people...I hope).

-- Susan in Northern Michigan (cobwoman@yahoo.com), January 15, 2002.

Sorry to say Susan you will find country folks have there own way to .Some old time small towns will take forever to let you fit in .My feeling is ow well they are loosing out .I am one of the kind of people who would bend over backwards to help someone.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), January 15, 2002.

Do you actually believe Leroy that I'm showing "respect" to others when I dress "up" to go to the store? I've never understood that way of thinking. Some of the scummiest folks I know wear 3 piece suits daily, so that must mean they're really respectful?

I remember a quote from Walden---"beware of any enterprise that requires new clothes."

If I'm in the middle of a project and need to go into town to get something, I go as I am. If someone choses to ignore me because they don't like the way I look or dress, I promptly but politely and firmly remind them that I'm there on business and want to get on with it.

I'm fairly well known around here and considered by some to be the local eccentric. I don't think I'm especially well liked and could care less but I do get respect because I give it and it has nothing to do with what I wear.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), January 16, 2002.

Please - even the grubbiest person who goes into any store is there to buy SOMETHING - in a small town, those people usually are well known, and if not - there are so many other "grubby" people who are known that one more hardly makes a difference. I am a slob - love it too - but I clean up nice and most people know the many sides of "me". One of the reasons is a line I picked up from a newspaper - I just remind the person who is waiting on me/checking me out that "No, remember - I am profit, YOU are overhead. Works for me.

-- Jerry Cummings (futures8@bellsouth.net), January 16, 2002.

This post got me to smiling, as I have often been that guy on the other side of the counter. I know what you mean on dress, although I myself didnt discrimate against greasy clothing (I have changed PLENTY of engines and most of my clothes have a patch or hole in them). That fact made me eager to talk to them, as a greasy mechanic needs parts, and my other job was working at a junk yard, and I might steer him onto some parts. When I worked at a rundown gas station for 7 months, sales during my third shift tripled because of the way I treated customers. Literally, people would drive by and not stop in if my truck wasnt on the lot. I never could pick up the count the change back thing, but the coffee was always fresh, and if it wasnt, I would make you a fresh pot and give you a free cup for having to wait. I remember a time I changed an elderly ladies power steering pump- which turned out to be a 4 hour task- during a very busy friday night- running inside to help customers and back out to work on her car. And for free. I did wake up calls for the truck drivers across the street to needed sleep and all the truck stops too far away. I treated everyone with respect. BUT there were some customers who were awful. One guy would never speak to the clerk- he wasnt deaf or anything, as his friend came in one day and they talked plenty good, just always treated the clerks like crap. Another guy was always drunk and I often kicked him out for raising trouble. I was held up once and stolen from- right out from under my nose- and had the cops do NOTHING. I got in two fights in the store as we were next to a bar and I was breaking up fights. You know, the clerk has a tough time, people coming home from a rough day arent too friendly. If you mis count their $, you are a theif. And, being a clerk who- every single time (unfortunatley) trouble broke out it was a group of teens or groups of minorities- it made me wary of them and I know I was looking groups of youngsters and minorities over closer than I had to. Two sides to every story is true. Now when the clerk looks at me close, I just grin and bear it and maybe try to strike up a conversation with them, instead of getting insulted. I know WHY they are hawking me over.

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

Sorry guys,

But I have to take EXTREME exception to Kelly's comments regarding WIC. I'm single, never married (because I think marriage is about Love, not the size of my wallet, or vehicle, or anatomical endowments) so am not a father. Because of a broken business contract, I was living hand to mouth. I would go to the city park at 4 am to fill buckets of water after I could no longer pay the water bill. I pawned personal and family heirlooms for gas in the truck to go on job interviews. I tried to buy groceries for a week on $10 (for several months). I couldn't help becoming FURIOUS when debating on buying a $1.50 box of cereal and an apparently middle-class woman, nose stuck in the air, would choose the WIC labeled box for $4.50, since she had a WIC voucher. AND MY TAXES WERE PAYING FOR IT!!!

I eventually landed a job in the cable industry, work in a professional office, and still have plenty of money left over when the next paycheck arrives. I try to be generous with my time and money, often finding oppurtunities to help those who NEED it. But... my blood STILL boils at the assumption I should be responsible and happy to underwrite some one else's CHOICE to have children and support them in a style magnitudes above where I was 'back then'!!! That concept won't even do for fertilizer!

It seems most poor service stems from a lack of honor and respect - for ourselves and each other. If we don't take the time and oppurtunity to show that respect, then how can we expect to be met with it in return? I forced my 5 yr old nephew to return a gift when he was disrespectful to the giver. Once. That's all it took. If he can learn that lesson so quick, I think we adults can do a bit better!

Of course, that's just m

-- Randle Gay (rangay@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.

Funny, the best service I have had has been in hardware stores. I used one in Beavercreek, Ohio because they kept an employee stationed near the door. When you walked in they asked how they could help you. At the local one, the first one who sees you walk in is responsible for helping in any way they can.

On the other hand:

On a recent trip down to Florida my left front truck tire blew out. No problem as I had a spare. However, my jack was frozen up from sitting behind the seat. I limped down the interstate and pulled off at an exit. Fortunately one gas station there had a one-door service bay. This was at 7:30 AM. Went in the station and saw the mechanic sitting talking to the people behind the counter. I said I had a blown tire. He say, "Yup, saw that when you pulled in." I asked if he could swap it out with my spare. He pointed to a sign which said the service bay open at 8:00 AM. He made me wait until 8:00 AM to open up the bay.

Later I tried looking for an Arbys, but settled on a McDonalds. Stood in line for ten minutes with only one order taken and people still waiting for their order. Left and found another McDonalds down the interstate. Service was at best indifferent. Ordered a quarter- pounder with cheese and extra onions (traveling alone), medium fries and a large water. Order came with a small water and no extra onions, and I was the only one ordering at the time. How could they screw up an order like that?

Like someone said above, I tip according to service. A wait-person who is friendly, stays an extra minute to chit-chat and keeps drinks topped off deserves a nice tip.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

P.S. Each year at Christmas I take in a self-made fruit basket to the tire/brake shop at my local coop where I have most of my work done. You might be surprised at the good service I get during the rest of the year just for this extra consideration.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

Hi George, I can't even count the number of times I've gone into town with my work boots and bib overhalls on. I'd never get anything done if I had to change everytime, just to go get something I needed at that minute! I don't know if it's just the town I live in or if it's just me, but I never pay attention if anyone notices or not. Years ago I worked in the loan dept at a bank. If the girl that did the CD's was busy, I would help out. There was an old man who use to come in with his bibs on, he couldn't even sign his name, just put an "X". That man had more money than most people, but you would never know it.

Personally, I think the problem lies deeper. In this country it used to be that no matter what job you did or how much money you earned, if you did it well, you were respected. And that goes for how a clerk is treated by a customer also. Now, so much of how a person is judged depends on his outward appearance and what he does for a living. The ad executives for tv must think we're a country made up of stock brokers! They sure don't portray America with much realism. Also, most of the businesses are run by huge corporations and by nature, there is no one around who really cares how the customer is treated. Nothing can replace the owner/operated business. I'd like to be at a Krogers, K-mart, Wal-mart, McDonalds or any other big business on the day the owners/bigshots were there, and then see what kind of customer service I got. I bet it would be much better. Sad, huh? There are a few of the clerks at these places that I must say that do a great job, but that's more because of their personality and they're the exception instead of the rule.

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), January 16, 2002.

I think its a shame that most Americans judge success by how much money a person has,I think about the folks that I have known and respected alot some are or were rich some extremely poor as money goes but very wealthy in the art of living a useful and full life.I believe we all need to look past fine clothes,big cars and big bank accounts to the character of a person give everyone personal respect.

-- Gary (burnett_gary@msn.com), January 16, 2002.

This may be off the subject a bit, but I'll share anyway. I own an electric cart which I use to shop with as it is difficult for me to walk. I can't tell you how many times people in stores are downright rude. They all but run me over or walk right in my way without a word. I have gotten quite obnoxious...much to DH's dismay. LOL! I tend to say in a very loud voice, "Are you always rude or is it just to me!" OR, "Am I invisible today?" They get very embarressed and skulk away. My point is that, if someone gives you bad service or is rude, speak up!

-- Ardie /WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.

Randle I think you post was very unfare .You are judging someone when you don't like being judged.wic allows for certain cerals to be bought not the high sugar character ones either.They are not the higher priced ones.They also allow eggs , cheese , peanut butter milk and fruit juices.You where in a tough position and could have used some help .Birth control is not 100 % .Think of the poor families who have an uexpected baby on the way and then hubby gets layed off.Granted this is not the case for everyone but who are we to judge?

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.

Patty, I have seen what Randle is talking about, and food stamp abuse is even worse, not to mention seeing them drive off in a nicer car than you have. Nobody really cares how you pay for something, unless you take forever to do it (like check writers, for instance), and you just happen to look at what the person ahead of you is buying.

I don't think I have ever seen anyone on those programs buy sensible (balanced nutritionally, etc.) foods, because if I did I would be truly amazed. I see mostly junk food, and a lot of overprocessed convenience food.

What they should do on those programs instead is give them so many lbs of cheese, eggs, and other approved generic foods per person and no choice. The truly needy will eat properly, and least we're not wasting as much as we do now as taxpayers on the cheaters.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 16, 2002.

Patty,

I re-read my post and will stand by my comments. Perhaps the impression was incorrect. First, I REALLY don't concern myself with how others judge me in keeping with Louis L'Amour's philosophy - honor only matters with honorable men. I can look at a horse and know it's breeding - the woman was middleclass, though I qualified that in my previous post. I also made a point of stating I actively help those who NEED it. My point was those thinking they're just 'entitled' to take because "it's available'.

Regarding WIC - It doesn't surprise me hearing NY WIC is sensibly operated. That fits my overall impression of NY. I'm in Ohio and those same kudos aren't appropriate for our state's WIC program. The products in our supermarkets prominently labeled as WIC choices are: 1) usually convenience 2) moderate to low nutritional value 3) designer or character products and 4) NEVER store brands or generic. I've a cousin making over $50k with 3 children and they've used the WIC program EVERY SINGLE TIME! I know there was NO need in that household!! That shows no respect...

As to birth control - I'm well aware contraception isn't 100% and there are unwanted or forceable pregnancies. Those are a very small percentage of the whole. Parenthood is a choice AND a responsibility, not a right or privilege. *gentle smile* I'm single, not celibate and every time a relationship developes to intimacy we enter that knowing there are consequences that could include pregnancy, even with 'safe' sex. That is part of the responsibility of the relationship.

The real point here is ... if I respect You enough to treat You with respect and honor, then I deserve to be met with the same from You. Regardless of my 'grubby' appearence, or differing educational level, or apparent wealth. It was the lack of respect for ourselves and others that I was speaking to.

If You ever NEED hel

-- Randle Gay (rangay@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.

On the flip side, a seemingly universal local attitude of abuse and bullhockey behavior toward service providers can (and does) instill a (regretable, but understandable) sense of "whatever" in the employees. As an entertainer in a rural area, I am fed up with this and am leaving this club to work for another in a distant town. The town where I work now is small, and this is the only "club" in the area - there are a few taverns here and there, but mostly for serious drunks and those who go to play pool - although up the road about 40 minutes is the state capital just chock full of regular dance clubs of all types and tastes.

Unfortunately, we, the dancers and bar staff, make our money solely on tips. The locals (mostly slacker, angry youth types) come in "just to have a beer and hang out", and rather than go up the road to do so where that is the whole point. they come into our place, never intending to tip, get dances, or even clap at the end of a performance. When you ask them if they'd like a dance, they look at you like you're nuts, if you're lucky, or if you're not they say things like "Why would I spend $** on something I can see at home for free?". How about because that's what the club is here for, you useless space heater. You know it's going to be a long night when they come in eight a table and buy a pitcher of draft and eight glasses with loose change.

Because this young, GenX population of indifferent goons have taken over the club, those who would spend money - the business men coming off the interstate and from the surrounding area - have slowly dwindled away as the music has gotten more Limp Biskit than not (in a desperate attemt to appeal to the crowd we have) and the fact that the majority of the guys are sitting as far away from the stage as possible and not coming up to tip sets the attitude for those who are unfamiliar with the area and the pay-basis. We can have a standing room only crowd with NO ONE at the stage (and all the chairs that were there pulled back to the tables so that the slackers could sit down without endangering their pocketbooks) and make only two or three dollars off a two or three song set. Sometimes my businessmen customers are suprised to learn that tipping is allowed! they just assumed, from the behaviour of those who obviously came her a lot, that ther was some sort of local ordinance prohibiting it.

Now, I realize that times are tough all over and that many people just don't have the money to spare for such high-end entertainment. Fine. Stay home. Go elsewhere. You cna buy beer at Wal-Mart much cheaper than you can here. Go to a club with a cheaper cover charge that specializes in making money from selling a few beers to a lot of customers. People with a small budget shouldn't come into a club like this, then sit around and complain that all we are after is money. DUH! Did they think this was some sort of dating service for strong, attractive, financially independent women who just can't find a guy on their own? For every thing under the sun there is a purpose, and gentlemen's clubs are not there to cater to the "all holler, no dollar" crowd. There are plenty of places that do. The failure of our clientele (to use the term very loosely) has failed to make that distinction, and as such, our entire staff is surly, desperate, broke, and definately not in the mood to focus on customer service, and I don't blame them.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.

I'd like to suggest a book entitled 'The Millionaire Next Door' to everyone. In it you'll see where the real wealth in America is, and it's not at all where you'd think. It's really a pretty good read.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

Dear Mr. Randle G. When my husband and I married, (for love thankyou very much) he had a good job lined up. He was a graduate student at Duke University in Divinity school on scholarship- you don't get to that kind of position by being irresponsable. Perhaps we should have (somehow) known that-Our country would hit a resession and his job would be "downsized" and he would be forced to take what he could get which was a carpentry job with no insurence. I did the best I could with birthcontrol-it is 99percent effective-I did not think (silly me) that I would be the one percent. I suppose I could have aborted the child to save tax payers a few dollars. And then we should have somehow foreseen the Gulf War and that my Father in Law would go fight for his country and that we would be taking inmy Mother in Law and my husbands younger brother who, by the way was hospitalized with spontanous Pnumothorax. I guess I should have worked nights at the seven eleven to help support my family. I'm sure my husband could have easily worked carpentry all day then cared for an infant at night.

At the time, our country was firing SCUD missles at a million dollars a pop. It was too much, I suppose to ask for a few pounds of cheese and a couple of jars of peanut butter-maybe a little milk.

Now, my husband is a child and family therapist. We could, I suppose move to a large city where he would make big bucks dealing with rich juvie d's. But no we thought it would be a good thing to work out in the boonies where we still live below the Poverty line-though we are off WIC and pay our own bills with a savings account even, so that he could work with children who are, through no fault of their own, poor and even abused.

I only hope mr. G. that if you ever find yourself in a tight spot, someone has some compassion for you.

-- Kelly (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 16, 2002.

Oy vey!

-- Ardie /WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.

It was not my intention to get a feud going with this thread. I only wanted to know how you were treated when you went into a store when you were a bit on the gruby side. I think that by going back and forth with the wic thing all that will be accomplished is that you will go to bed tonight and lay awake thinking about what you should or should not have said to each other.If you feel your heart racing and your breathing is getting heavy (from frustration everyone. I think I know where some of your minds are going with this;-)) then maybe it is time to sit back take a deep breath, relax and let yourself cool down a little before you boil over.

-- george (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

The real problem lies with the system .I have seen the abuse but what about those who really need it ? In NY you have to show proof of income , I believe 4 weeks of pay stubs,You are limited to brands ect .I do not think abuse is that bad.The system needs to be overhalled to stop the abuse.I would hate to have a hungry child because someone else abused the system.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.

One of the most amusing conversations I ever had was with a woman who worked in a women's specialty store. I am the wife of a professional and though I rarely buy things at these stores I did like to visit them. We were discussing the shop and I told her I never went there anymore. She asked why. I simply told her that when I was just looking I was usually dressed up. And I received a lot of attention from the clerks. But, if I was buying I would wear simple slacks, (mainly jeans), a plain blouse or T-shirt and I didn't spend alot of time on my hair or makeup for they would only get ruined or mess up the clothes I was trying on. Buying clothing can be work and I dressed for it. And, I told her when I dressed like that I was treated rudely by the clerks. She looked at me very strangely, then you could see the light go on and she said " I am going to have to talk to the owner about that." Makes one really wonder!

And I don't think it will ever get better either for when my daughter was interviewed for a position in a grocery store the first question she was asked was: "How important is the customer?" She sat quiet for a minute trying to figure out if this was a trick question. When she responded by saying that without a customer there would be no store, the manager told her that most teens he interviewed had not idea what he was talking about. Makes one wonder what they are teaching about economics in schools.

-- Chris in PA (CLMngs@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

Remember the phrase "the customer is always right"? Well in most specialty stores that's true (IGA, Ace & True Value Hardware, Corral West, the feed store), but in today's discount stores, it's completely forgotten. Maybe that's why I might pay a bit more for an odd item at the hardware store, rather than the lowest price at Wally or Home Depot or Lowes. I not only get good service, a smile, free delivery and a Christmas card every winter.

Those BIG BOX stores have to go a long way to meet the local proprietors just half-way. There's something about living in a small town, where everybody knows your name or which ranch your from. Get's you in trouble sometimes and other times it's worth the trouble. Sure it might take me two hours to shop at the IGA, b/c we all have to share stories and meet friends, but what's life like without 'em.

-- matt johnson (wyo_cowboy_us@yahoo.com), January 16, 2002.

Dear Mr. George-Thank you so much for trying to bring peace-obviously the WIC debate will not be solved here, and I assure you, I am quite calm and collected. And I do appologise if I have offended anyone. But I believe, I've proved your point-that being, you feel people treated you disrespectfully becouse of the way you happened to be dressed at a particular time. I have been treated disrepectfully becouse of a piece of paper I happened to be holding. Its never fair for people to be judgemental. Having been on that end of bias,I try really hard to watch for that in myself-I don't allways succeed, but I do try.

-- Kelly (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 16, 2002.

Hi Kelly.

I wouldn't let it bother me to much.I am sure you are a great person. We have all been down at times and have needed a hand getting back up. I've been there, you've been there, they've been there and we've all been there. George

-- george (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

Thanks George!

-- Kelly (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 16, 2002.

Dearest Kelly,

I humbly suggest You read my post previous to the one You chose to totally distort. I also spent a year in seminary (until I got my fill of the hypocrasy and sanctimony that passes for 'religion'!) and hold two degrees which were accomplished by working 3 jobs at times. I've worked in 4 different civic organizations, as an officier in 3 of those, and volunteered in 3 local political campaigns. One of the civic organizations, which I served as president of for 3 years, supported our public library system including providing library services for our poorer, rural schools. I also served on the state board for that organization's parent organization.

One and a half years before the incident in my first post, I was offered a VERY lucrative and 'cush' position while spending the Summer in southern California. I returned to Ohio instead because I had given my word to those same organizations. No pay, no benefits, just lots of HARD work and headaches.

Those decisions fit part of my definition of a homesteader.

I've made it clear in both posts that where there is a NEED, I'll do anything I can to help. But there was NO ONE bailing me out when I was carrying water from the city park at 4 a.m.!! Don't You dare presume speaking to me of hardship and self-reliance in Your sanctimonius tone, young woman!!!!! I am a single, white adult male of Scot's descent who has been more responsible to my family, church and community than 99% of the liberal scum who have decided I should underwrite thier every whim and desire.

-- Randle Gay (rangay@hotmail.com), January 17, 2002.

Double oy vey!

What a way to start the day...reading THAT post! Now,we're going the "name calling" route. Let'see...yup, it's the middle of January! And so it starts again.

I think I'll go back to bed and hope this nonsense blows over!

BTW, George, I like your sense of humor!

-- Ardie /WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), January 17, 2002.

Dear Randle--Truce-OK? That was a horrible time in my life, I felt that we were doing all we could and it wasn't enough. Sometimes thats what happens-its not fair but there it is. Yes there are lots of people who abuse the system, but not everyone does, some of us get some help, and then in gratitude for that try to give back to others.

I'm sorry you had that misfortune in your life-I think its dreadful you had to get water from the park at four a.m. I wish that no one would have to go through that or be forced to do Wic, or whatever. But sometimes thats just what we have to do.

I'm sorry if my comments displeased you. Thank you for thinking I'm young-I appreciate that!!!!!

-- Kelly (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 17, 2002.

Truce???? From defending myself from a very vicious personal attack for trying to make a point about respect and honor? NO! As to what I think is meant as an apology - go nail it to that Cross You seem to put so much store in - I don't accept it.

Now drop it

-- Randle Gay (rangay@hotmail.com), January 17, 2002.

"Excuse me, what was the origanl question?

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), January 17, 2002.

Good one r.h.! I am lucky, the nearest town has a population of 2000 or less. They don't mind people coming into the stores muddy, painted, dirty from the garden or really gross after deer hunting. I've done them all! As for the WIC debate. Isn't this program only for womem with children under a certain age 3 or 4? I think this program is to insure that the child, from the time they are in the womb (yes, the mother has to eat right to have a healthy baby)to the age of 3 or 4, has the nutrition needed to survive. They only provide certain items, cheese, peanut butter, cereal, milk and a few more. When it comes to children, I think most moms would do ANYTHING to insure their safety and well being. I see nothing wrong with this program. Now food stamps and welfare are a different story, They are the ones that are being abused. Just my opinion.

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), January 17, 2002.

r.h., my thoughts exactly! We started with a very interesting and diverse subject and ended up with someone taking advantage of it to do a rant. Unfortunately, this happens and ruins it for everyone.

Kelly, I emailed you and I hope that what I've written makes the day go better.

God bless.

-- Ardie /WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), January 17, 2002.

Randle, I formerly was a licensed electrician. Making what I would think was a very good salary. We always had two vehicles, and traded the oldest in for a newer model every 3 or 4 years. But health problems took over, the robust life that we was use to living is gone. A wife and three young children to feed. Finances quickly drained due to utility, Dr. bills, and loans. Wife has no education other than high school diploma, only qualifies for a minimum wage job. We still drove nice vehicles since our insurance took over the payments. Still dress very nice cause we still have nice clothes from when I was working. But I am not a single white guy who has nobodys mouth to feed but my own. My first thought is not to make sure that I have food in my mouth, but to make sure that my wife and kids have food in there own mouth. That means having to sign up for wic or food stamps while I still own my vehicles or my nice dress clothes and living with the embarrasment of showing that card at the check out counter. And I think you would do the same thing if you were married and have children. Of course with your attitude I don't think any girl in their right mind would have you. Thats probably why you are still single!!!!

"Oh, and another thing. You need to find you another church cause the one you are attending does not appear to be teaching you anything. Unless that is your fault also".

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), January 17, 2002.

I'm starting to see why Randle is single... Randle, so you had to carry water at 4am, man cry me a river. Be glad you had a home to carry that water to. Be glad you didn't have kids to take care of and feed while you found yourself in an unfortunate situation. To compare your situation with that of a woman with newborn children is ridiculous. That's nice you spent your time volunteering to civic organizations and working 3 jobs but you do realize that a mother with kids doesn't have time for all that right?

I could care less if a few pennies of my taxes go to WIC. I'd much prefer it go to WIC rather than 90% of the other things our tax money is spent on.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 17, 2002.

Wow Randle, if you considered what Kelly said a 'personal attack', perhaps its time for a reality check with your paranoia monitor! What an unpleasant, unhappy fellow you appear to be. Life is a mirror: if someone enrages you, you are only mad at something in yourself.

All we need is love,

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), January 17, 2002.

George, If it ends up being a long thread it must mean that it really needed to be talked about. This is how we learn and grow. Right? I thought it was wonderful. We are so lucky to live in the States and we can all voice our opinions without TOO much fear of reprisals by the powers that be. I have enjoyed this one very much and it reminds me to be more consious of all around me. What I see may not be what the story is. Ain't humans interesting? Thanks again George for the eye openers!

-- Susan in Northern Michigan (cobwoman@yahoo.com), January 17, 2002.

If you think people were rude because you were a little grubby, you should see the way they treat a single woman with children in tow. I have encountered rude treatment even when I was dressed for town. So I have a simple solution: I don't patronize people who act like that. I don't need to deal with snobby, rude people, and support them with my money. This holds true whether they are a store or restaurant or an individual selling breeding stock. If they are nasty, if they act like I don't exist, if I just plain don't like the way they look at me, I don't go back.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 17, 2002.

Susan, I have to say all the post took me by surprise. I thought maybe a couple of people have had this happen to them. I took this same question to work today and everyone said they are treated the same way if they go into a store dirty from work. To bad. I would never treat people poorly just because they are grubby from work. George

-- george (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), January 17, 2002.