My husband will be having spinal fusion (L3/4-S1 with hardware) in a month. Has anyone on the forum had this surgery, or know anyone that has? I'm interested to know how it turned out, the length of recovery time, and how long he can expect to be in the hospital. I'll go to the pre-op appointment with him, but I'd like to hear from someone that has actually had the surgery.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), January 11, 2002

Answers

My cardiologist had it done 5 years ago, he was in the hospital five days, at home not working for 3 months, and said if he had to do it all over again, he most definitely would NOT as it didn't resolve the problem any better than before the surgery. He went to a different orthopedic doctor who encouraged him to lose more weight and exercise more and have regular physical therapy. That did work, and he strongly encourages anyone considering back surgery to get a second, or even third opinion about the alternatives to fusion and surgery.

There are NO guarantees it will improve the condition, and can make it worse, always get another opinion and decide very carefully!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), January 11, 2002.

was recommended for me (L4/5),, a freind suggested chiropractic first,, IM glad I didnt have the surgery,, its a practice that doesnt give good ods on improving,, either,no improvment,, some improvemnt,,or its worse than before,, thats less than 1 in 3 odds,, not somehting I want to take a chance on. Id go for anothe opion also,, maybe even a chiro practor even also,,see what he thinks. Best case,,see if you can get the durgeon and the chiro together for a meeting

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), January 11, 2002.

Hi Anne,

He's been the therapy route, every therapy known to man, and nothing gave relief. He's had 4 opinions over the almost 8 years he's lived with this condition- all concurred that surgery was the only option left to him. Since his last MRI in 1998, he's had another disc deteriorate increasing the levels of fusion. He's also on painkillers daily and doesn't want to continue having to depend on them, his quality of life right now is terrible.

There's no question that he is having the surgery, we just want to know what to expect. He will also need cervical neck surgery in the future due to disc deterioration and bone spurs--all of this is due to multiple work related injuries (along with major ankle reconstruction, four knee surgeries, two facial scars and major depression.)

I appreciate your opinion tho.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

Stacy,,if surgery is definatly GOING to happen,, then after the surgery,, he should feel pretty good,,though limited in his movements,, and expect a big smile on his face after he wakes up. IV pain killers are GREAT. I was living on pain killers for awhile,, no insurance,, sleeping on a board,, anything for some relief,, and if nothing else worked,, then I hope for the best of luck for him,, and you. Recovery will be long,, about 3-6 months,, but he should notice a reduction in pain soon afterwards,, my brother had it done,, and was better as soon as he woke up,, and was trying to do things 2 days after. Hope it works out for him.

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), January 11, 2002.

Thanks, Stan. Has the chiropractor helped you, were you able to get off the painkillers?

I'm glad you're feeling better.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

I've had a slipped disc and surgery was not recommended. At the worst, I was taking codeine with my first cup of coffee in the morning so I could get the horses fed in the morning. Keeping my weight down has been the primary thing for me ... and NOT doing a few things that always aggravate ... I cannot clean stalls, for instance, the "twist and pitch" motion is impossible.

My neighbor has had the fusion surgery ... she was much worse than I was, apparantly, as she was actually in a body cast for several months. She had the surgery several years ago and while she still does have pain and some limitations on what she can do, she says it was a major improvement for her ... and she was up and about within days of the surgery.

SFM in KY

-- SFM in KY (sportpony@yahoo.com), January 11, 2002.

I can't help with the lower back surgery because I haven't had that one (that surgery was recommended a few months ago, but has gotten better due to visits with a chiropractor) but I did have two disks removed and fusion with titanium September 25, 2001. I was advised not to do much of anything the first couple of months but I went back to cutting and hauling wood within 30 days. I put the surgery off for 6 months until I could no longer stand the pain, knowing what I know now I wouldn't have waited. I am 66 years old, weigh 254 lbs and due to the surgery I am able to do things that I haven't been able to do in 20 years. I hope this helps. If I can help with specifics of what goes on in the hospital stay and recovery time, email me privately. Hope everything works out alright for you.

-- Leland Galloway (lsg35@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

YEP,, Chiro helpes me ALOT,, no pain pills,, I would improve alot more,,if I could knock off some weight,, but I go for an adjustment, about every 2 weeks,, without any problems. I waited too long, and do have some nerve damage in my left leg,cant feel my heel,, lose of some strentgh,,ect ,, what a pain when I step on a nail,, and dont even know it,, it has been improving,, and I am working on cutting some poundage.

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), January 11, 2002.

Oh, thank goodness for the "up and around in a few days" stories! My husband is an honest to goodness whiner when he's in pain, and he'll admit to it.

The chiropractor did help a lot for the first few years, his condition worsened, and physical therapy was started, anesthetic injections came next, large ultrasound, then a TENS unit was used, and finally, painkillers and at home light weight training. He's losing weight now (he had gained about 15 lbs being home) because the docs make two incisions, one in the abdomen, and one in his back, and the less fat around his middle the better. He finally quit smoking the nasty, stinky cigars too!

Thanks for the information...

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

My husband had that surgery Jan 31st 2001. He was in the hospital 5 days. He was up with a walker when he came home, but was pretty messed up for about a week more...he improved really fast after that, and his progress has been pretty amazing. It was really scary...I know what you are going through. My husband had tried most everything first too. His was work related so we had to wait forever for approval from the work comp insurance company. He finally got approval for physical therapy now..and is almost done. Will start school for retraining for another job soon. Hopefully. THe surgeon was wonderful..and the medical part of it all went very well. Our biggest gripes have been the insurance company. My husband worked for the same company (construction) for 12 years, so there was no doubt how it happened...still it drags on. I hope you have a different situation in that regard. Anyway....you can count on a couple weeks of him being very dependent. My husband is a whiner about pan too...but once that first 2 weeks after the surgery passed it was better. I hope your husbands goes just as well. Your husband IS having the surgery from the front, right? My husband had the titanium cage thing with bone from his hip and all...is that the same yours is having? I would be happy to answer any questions you have. I am pretty amazed at how well he is now...almost a year later...best he has felt in years and years.

-- Jenny (auntjenny6@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

Did he get any other doctors recommendations? I had a doctor recommend it for me about 5 years ago and I'm so glad I didn't go through with it. I have a friend that had the procedure done and the only difference now is that he can't bend over as far as he used to. He still has to deal with everything else. If I ever do get surgery it'll be the newer laser surgery where they only remove part of the disc and you walk right out afterwards. I have a ruptured L5-s1 and degenerative L4,L3. The 1st year after I was injured was pretty rough. I had worked with the injury until I couldn't hardly walk or stand up anymore. Lots of percocets, physical therapy 3 times a week, tens unit, chiro adjustments 2 times a week. Sciatica so bad at times that I'd start rationalizing that maybe leg amputation wouldn't be so bad...

The thing that's helped me the most has been excercise. The more your muscles are developed, the more they'll compensate for the injury. I quit the painkillers and chiro and everything but excercise. Without the painkillers I think my nerves became conditioned to the pain and cancel most of it out now. Once in a great while, maybe 3-4 times a year it will flare up and I use the tens unit. It always happens when I get a bit inactive and not enough excercise. I have to watch how I work. That's how I caused this, jumping right into things, throwing way too much weight on my shoulders, not 'working smart' as they say. About the only time I have problems with it now is when I slack off on excercising. The kind of shoes you wear can make a big difference. A waterbed helped me. Lots of walking, stretching, lat pulldowns, back extension excercises. The more built up you keep the stomach and upper body muscles toned, the more strain is taken off the discs.

If you haven't already I would definitely talk to a few different doctors. I consulted a neurologist, osteopathic, chiro and general prac before I made my decision. The old timer neurologist was the only one who recommended the fusion. After seeing the results of my friend who got a fusion I am real glad I didn't do it.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 11, 2002.

About 7 years ago I had C5 fusion in my neck.Since then I havent had any problems. No loss of mobility, surgey went well not any pain. Just remember to talk to the doctor to make sure he remembers that he is working on your back and not some other part. I was in the hospital about 3 days. Get out as fast as you can becouse hospitals are not really clean places as far as bad bugs go. Good Luck

-- john d hayes (jdhayes@adelphia.net), January 11, 2002.

Yep, Hubby (Ed) had 4 different docs (2 Orthopedics, and 2 Neurologists) tell him the only option left is surgery. He has sciatica badly, with numbing down both legs into his toes. He has an very nice home gym, free weights, squat machine, lat pull down, Schwinn bike, well, I've probably forgot something down there--it takes up most of the cabin's cellar. He was big into fitness/body building before he got hurt, and has kept it up. The theory is that keeping the muscles surrounding the spine strong will protect the back. I think it helped.

Jenny, thank you for the kind words. I'm glad that your hubby came through the surgery so well. We're having a problem with the Worker's Comp carrier too. Approval for the surgery went on for two years! In that time, another disc deteriorated.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

There is a new surgical therapy called spinal disc replacement where the defective discs are surgically replaced with an engineered disc. Mobility is retained in the spine and there seem to be fewer complications. Check on the net under spinal disc replacement. I can't remember the exact addy. My brother is going to be facing this and we're considering this procedure instead of fusion. Has been quite successful in Europe the last couple of years. I think it is someone in the Boston area that is doing it in the USA as of the time of the article being written.

-- Sandra Nelson (Magin @starband.net), January 11, 2002.

Three things:

No garlic or aspirin for weeks before the surgery - they thin the blood and can cause severe bleeding problems.

If the doctor can think of no outstanding reason why not (allergy or drug interaction, for example), have an IV drip of vitamin C run during the surgery and post op. It certainly won't hurt anything and several studies showed that in many cases it significantly shortened the healing process. I can't remember where I heard this, but probably it was People's Pharmacy. You could check their website. The cost should be negligible and it could help.

I would also suggest an at-home recovery diet that was high on green leafies (for calcium) and low on meats and dairy. While dairy can contribute to overall calcium, studies have shown that excess protein in the diet can cause acidification of the body, thereby encouraging the body to re-balance its Ph by leaching calcium from the bones. Probably not a problem normally, but when healing a bone surgery, any little bit of breathing room could help.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), January 11, 2002.

That's been an option I've been offered on and off for over three decades now. There are doctors in my family, and their advice has been and still is that the odds are (still) about equal thirds for no change, improvement, or make it worse; so I've held off. My back is bad, but most of the time I'm functional, and I sure don't want it worse. If it couldn't be much worse, then I'd make a different decision.

HOWEVER, one thing I have heard is that if you have it done, there are exercises you can do (CAREFULLY) after the operation, and spaced out over a period of time, which will improve the outcome. If you haven't had this discussed, you should; and you should then make sure that they are carried out conscientiously.

-- Don Armstrong (darmat@yahoo.com.au), January 12, 2002.

We have looked into removal of the damaged discs, but Ed has spondylosis, and spondylothesis (I know I've misspelled this and I can't find the MRI) which is a congenital problem where the vertebra themselves are malformed, this condition doesn't usually cause problems until the person is older but because of the repetetive trauma Ed had problems at around 35. I wish he could have a discectomy because the recovery time and residual loss of range of motion would be much less severe, but it's just not to be. He has to have a rather large spinal fusion with hardware and bone grafting. From what we understand now (we'll know more at the pre-op appointment) he'll have two incisions, one through his stomach to put the hardware around the spine, be turned over, and another incision made in his back to put the screws on the metal cage. I'm sure that Ed inadvertently caused more damage by continuing to work after the initial injury in 1993, and the most recent MRI showed additional degeneration at L3/4 since the 1998 MRI.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), January 12, 2002.

Boy.......it sounds like your husband and mine really had the same problem! Mine kept working when he shouldn't have too. He had taken off a couple weeks until the pain he was feeling would subside some, and then back to work. He finally had the numb legs and the pain that didn't go away. He also had several opinions and tried everything! It was a year after he was off work before his surgery finally happened..and now a year since then and he hasn't started the retraining. I know he found a website/forum about this sort of thing that helped him alot...discussion with people in the same situation...and with the work comp problem on top of that. I will try to get the url from him and send to you, and hopefully that will help too. He got alot of info and found out things he didn't know from talking to the doctors. Talking to others who have been through it, or are going through it is the best! Good luck!!!!!! Jenny

-- Jenny (auntjenny6@aol.com), January 13, 2002.

asked hubby........type in anterior lumbar interbody fusion and alot of stuff comes up with helpful info. Hope this helps..Jenny

-- Jenny (auntjenny6@aol.com), January 13, 2002.

My husband had the 'anterior interbody fusion' done in 1996. Unfortunately, the Workers' Comp. insurance carrier denied him benefits for 2 years and he suffered horribly. They finally approved a surgery, but not the one the specialist recommended. Because they waited so long to treat, the nerves became impinged between the bones and he is now worse than before the surgery. He has been a chronic pain patient ever since and currently takes about 290mg of Morphine (plus other drugs) just to get thru the day. The doctors have told him that there are no other treatments for him, other than installing a morphine pump.

What can you expect immediately after the surgery? When they wheeled him out of the operating room, I was aghast at how he looked. Because during surgery they tilt the lower body upwards, his face was severely swollen and puffy. He slept most of the next 24 hours and then they started him walking again (thank to pain killers!). He said that he felt "unstable" in that region of his back for sometime until everything healed. He also almost passed out when they removed the 53 staples from his incisions (he had two as well). I feel for the both of you and certainly hope your experience turns out better than ours.

-- Lisa (mountainlady@imbris.com), January 13, 2002.

Some of you may remember me I am just back online tonight(1-17-02) for the first time in over a year. I am now on social security disability due in part to a herniated disc at L4-5. I agree with the comment on of those who do have surgery a third are no better, another third is the same and the remaining third is worse. I to was encouraged to have the surgery but as I live alone refussed as I am still able to take care of myself and my place with outside help. I was and am afraid that if I have the surgery I might not even be able to do this. But it sounds like your husband is to the point where he doesn't have much choice. From my experience as a Radiological Tech for the past 30 years my advice is to make sure he is hooked up with a good physical therapy department from day one and should even have a consult with them before surgery to know what will be expected from him and then to follow the therapy to the letter. Alot of people do have a good beginning but lose the benefits down the road. He needs to do all that he can following surgery and into the future but with guidence so he does not reinjure his back.

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef@getgoin.net), January 18, 2002.