How cold is too cold for the dogs?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

Central NC- we got snowed in (it'll be a week before I can get out to work, unless it melts a fast as it fell! Who would you choose to pay - rent or taxes? YIKES!)

Having not had dogs before as a responsible adult, I need a little help. We're not allowed to have the dogs in the house, although landlady's not likely to object if they are in actual danger, if it's for a short period of time ONLY. They have dog houses (they like to have their own space) on the back porch (off the ground on decking), and the doghouses are out of the wind and have "curtains" cutting off the wind from the doorways. They are A-frame (made in a hurry from old sawhorses covered with plywood) and just big enough for one stretched out dog or two tightly packed ones. They seem okay, playing in the snow (its their first) and generaly spending a lot of time in their houses. They are not shivering and their hair (which has grown in nicely over the past few months) doesn't seem to get more than surface wet in small spots when the roll around. We've picked up the feeding (they're getting a new food that's both cheaper and better quality, and that they like much better than the old one, that makes gravy - we use warm water to help heat them up a little), and we're doing our best to keep the water liquid and the porch cleared off. :)

Am I doing good? How should I know if they get too chilled? They are about 50-ish pounds each (at about 7 months, give or take), a local breed that seems to be shepard, retriever/lab or some sort, and who knows what else. They are good, hardy, healthy and seem relatively happy, even if some of the intial blush has gone off the "hey, it's frozen white soft stuff" rose. We have a bathroom they could be taken into, which would have to remain relatively unheated if we do (as dogs and electric space heaters are not a good mix). OOHH you gotta love a frozen toilet seat.! The rest of the house is cat occupied and way to full of stuff they could kill themselves with, such as glass objects and electical thingies, and is out of the question, aside from maybe an initial well-monitored warm-up period.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), January 03, 2002

Answers

Add a peice of styrofoam under the dog house and on the A frame too. Then fill in 4-6 inches of wood chips. Wet is a big problem make sure the dogs and chips stay dry, having an inside not overly warm spot is s good back up. Add some fat to thier feed. Not a lot, about a table spoon each per feeding, bacon fat or trimmings are fine, chicken or turkey fat better still. Some high quality canned meat wouldn't hurt either. And, as your doing now keep an eye on them.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), January 03, 2002.

You live in NC? I think they should be fine. Just don't let them in the house, they will get acclimated to indoor temps and lose their winter coats and hardiness, and then shiver and suffer if you put them outside.

I live in northern Idaho, and when we had dogs, they never came indoors, except for a very old, St Bernard with bad, crippled hips. The temps wopuld plunge to -35, the dogs just curl up and sleep right in the snow. Puppies were born outside in -25 weather, sheltered only by a little wigwam made from tree branches, they all lived and thrived! They never minded the cold, would play and have the best times in the snow.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 03, 2002.


I agree. Here in northern MN, we have three outdoor dogs. Temps get to 20-30 below (and have been worse). They have homemade, insulated doghouses. Two of them share one of the houses, which helps. These two are both lab mixes. The other is an Akita/malamute and loves the cold.

-- Cat (catcrazy@somewhere.com), January 03, 2002.

Depends upon the dogs, ie. their coats and therefore their insulation. Having spent an interesting year (really!) in Northern Greenland, I observed the sled dogs of the local Eskimos at close range. Now these are Greenlandic "Huskies" and used to the cold. They were as happy as can be burrowing into the snow in temps down to 60 below. But this was DRY snow, an excellent insulator. We also have some collies that have wonderful ("wicked soft") coats, and our 3/4 collie, 1/4 bearded collie just LOVES to be outside, although he comes in at night. Not because he wants to - only because I insist. In your area they might not be so hardy as here (Maine). Worst situation is being cold and wet, which you may very well be dealing with. So the bottom line is that they will do very well indeed with low temps. They may, however, be stressed if their coats are insufficient, and especially if you are dealing with temps near 32, which translates to cold and WET. Bring them in under those conditions. If the landlord objects, refer him/her (Am I politically correct or what?) to me and I will explain the facts of life thereunto to those who do not understand. And if I fail, I shall call upon my friend, Big Louie from Syracuse to explain in my stead. Don't worry, be happy! And let me know if I can be of further assistance. GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), January 03, 2002.

Ordinarily, I would say to bring them in if it is wet because you (and animals) always feel the cold more acutely if it is wet, but your statement "We're not allowed to have dogs in the house...." leads me to believe that you signed something to that effect, and you might run into problems with said landlord.

You're lucky yours allows pets at all, most don't because of potential liability and potential to damage the property, and the few that do ask for HUGE pet deposits, above and beyond normal security deposits. So try to stay on your landlord's good side (smile).

What you might also want to do is to get hold of some Tyvek (the stuff they wrap houses in) scraps to wrap around the dog houses and keep the wind out, which is half the battle. They probably have a website, or you can see if a local contractor will sell you some leftovers--as long as you overlap the pieces you should be fine.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 03, 2002.



Here in Minnesota the dogs have always lived outside. They had a not so great dog house (old wooden barrel on it's side with straw in it) and only if it gets below zero most of the day did I lock them in the barn with the cattle for some heat. Both the long-haired rat terrier mix & the short-haired rat terrier _hated_ it when I locked them in the barn. They were just fine outside. The long-hair lived to about 14 as a farm dog, happy all the time in winter. I wondered about the short-hair, but he was most happy all winter if I left him outside.

Keep the wind away from them, and they should be fine.

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), January 03, 2002.


They'll be fine there. It can only get so cold in NC. It sounds like they have adequate shelter. I wouldn't go against your landlords wishes. I've seen some houses tore up bad from dogs. It's not the dogs fault. I wouldn't have dogs in my house either. I had a border collie that preferred to sleep outside, even in the snow although he had access to a warm barn and other outbuildings. He never had any health problems at all. I've noticed that outdoor dogs don't get flea problems as much as dogs that are kept in homes, not sure why, maybe mother nature handles it. Animals acclimate to temperatures fairly quick. Like some other posters mentioned, many dogs live in freezing temps and are happy and healthy. I'd venture to say that a dog that lives outdoors is typically more healthy than a dog kept inside.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 03, 2002.

We have a Lab-Border Collie mix that refuses to come inside! He has a two-room doghouse with straw in the back room, and he loves it there. Even last winter, when he was a pup, he never minded being outside-and we are in Northern Ohio, and it can get pretty cold here in January! Seems the dogs that stay outside are healthier, happier animals.

-- Joe (threearrs@hotmail.com), January 03, 2002.

Hello, I live near Southern Pines, NC and have 4 large dogs who are outside. They have dog houses with cedar shavings in the floor. With curtains over the doors. They are used to the cold and snuggle together. They each have their own house but choose to sleep in pairs. Be sure to pour warm water for them several times a day and it helps if you heat their food. Our vet says it's best not to bring them in for short periods and then put them back outside. Better to leave them out with warm, dry shelter and plenty of warm water and food. It's works for us. stay warm.

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), January 03, 2002.

In South Dakota and in Ohio, my herding dogs all lived outside all of the time (three welsh corgis,1 border collie, 1 australian cattle dog). They had houses filled with straw and I stacked bales of hay on the windward side of the houses. In SD, I put 6 foot long culvert sections in the entrances and baffled the opening because i got tired of digging them out of snow that would blow through their door flap and drift them in. They never shivered even when it was -30 and blowing to beat all. They could be enticed into the house in the evening for a bit of R&R, but after 20 minutes they were so miserably hot that they whined at the door to go out. These creatures can adapt and adjust. The wind is the important thing...keep them out of the wind and even the rain won't bother them that much. Put a bit of extra tallow in their food dish for energy...plus you won't be tempted to fry your own potatoes in it and it will save your heart. Give them thawed water a few times a day...they will thrive just as they were meant to.

Having said all of that, our 6th dog is a mini dachshund and she does not have an ounce of body fat on her and her coat is about 1/4 of an inch long and she goes out to boss the others around but she does not stay out. She won't go out when it is -30. She will just give you the look and head back to her nest.

Seems to me like you are doing fine.

-- oscar H. Will III (owill@mail.whittier.edu), January 03, 2002.



It is about 10 Degrees here and the ones next door are standing outsde barking just like they did all summer so they must be OK.

-- Mel Kelly (melkelly@webtv.net), January 04, 2002.

SONI....TOO COLD FOR A DOG IS WHEN HIS/HER PADS FREEZE.IT HAPPENS. REMEMBER TO FEED A DOG LEFT OUTSIDE ALMOST TWICE HIS NORMAL INTAKE AS HIS BODY IS BURNING OFF THE FAT TO STAY WARM.THIS IS SOMETHING THE DOG FOOD CANS AND BAGS DON`T ADDRESS WHEN THEY TELL YOU HOW MUCH TO FEED THE DOG.A MOTHER TO ONE OF MY DOGS WAS ALMOST STARVED TO DEATH WHEN GIVEN A NORMAL RATION FOR HER.

I THINK DOGS LEFT OUTSIDE GET ARTHRITIC EARLY...[OTHERS IF YOU WANT AN OUTSIDE DOG TRY GOING TO A HUSKY]

CORDWOODGUY PS:PUT A FEW LIGHT BULBS UNDER THE FLOOR TO HEAT THE DOG HOUSE.BUT CHECK TO SEE THEY ARE STILL ON EVERY SO OFTEN

-- CORDWOODGUY (cordwoodguy@n2teaching.com), January 04, 2002.


Soni, They should be fine in NC. Maybe get them some straw or hay. I do agree with feeding them more as long as they get some exersise.I have 3 Canadian Inuits and the more it snow and the colder it gets the happier they are.

-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), January 04, 2002.

CORDWOODGUY, I agree that you definitely need to make sure a dog outdoors is getting enough to eat. An outdoor dog is more active also so it's get to need more calories.

I totally disagree with arthritis though. I'd venture to say that a dog kept inside or penned up has a much greater chance of developing arthritis. So will a dog that's only fed a diet of commercial dogfood. Of course, after a dog has arthritis, being out in the cold isn't good. But any dog who lives a life penned up, not free to run as it likes or needs will certainly be a candidate for arthritis or other problems. A dog kept indoors or penned/chained up won't even come close to getting the healthy excercise that a free running dog would get. In my experiences, I've seen way more health problems in dogs kept penned up, whether inside or not. Dogs have alot of muscle and it cannot develop properly or stay developed by taking them for a walk once or twice a day. Underdeveloped muscle leads to alot more stress on bones and joints and is a major cause of arthritis. One of the best ways to deal with arthritis is to develop the muscles so it takes the weight and strain off the joints. A sedentary confined human would develop multiple problems over time. Sure you'd probably survive but how healthy would you be penned up 23 hours a day or even worse, indoors with no sunshine? I don't understand why anyone would think it healthy for a dog or cat.

I'd be real careful about putting light bulbs under a dog house. That doesn't sound too safe. There are heat pads, heat tape, etc out there that'd be alot safer.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 04, 2002.


I've had dogs for 60 yrs. They'll be fine, unless it goes to -10 below, and they have short hair.

-- Elizabeth Quintana (rockshelter@webtv.com), January 04, 2002.


Here in upstate SC, I guess I spoil my dogs (golden ret and shep/rot/ collie mix). They have a nice big dog house with cedar shavings, but I take them in at night if it gets below 40. If it is below 32 in the morning when they go out (before I go to work), I give them a warm breakfast (dry dog food with a warm "gravy" from a gravy mix or a can of heated dog food). I also bring a kettle of hot water to put in their water barrel to help break the ice. They are both "well upholstered" and have good thick coats.

-- MissJudi (jselig@clemson.edu), January 08, 2002.

Depends on their fur. My Aussie gets wet and therefore chilled much more quickly than Augie the bear/lion/Samoyed cross. I used to be concerned, being a first-time dog "owner"(silly concept), too...till I watched Augie walk out into a frozen pond up to his chest just to taste the water in the middle of the pond, in mid-Dec. After that I have never worried about him feeling cold. As long as they're not shivering, and can be dry, they'll be okay. They'll let you know if they're not.

-- snoozy (bunny@northsound.net), January 08, 2002.

I have seen temps drop to -60 degrees and my dogs (long haired) stay outdoors through it all. When I feel sorry for them and bring them in they want back out within a short time...usually less than an hour later. Keep pets high and dry. out of the wind and well fed with plenty of fresh water at least twice a day. Even my old cat stays out more than in in winter. She don't like being inside..too hot for her and she is twelve years old now.

-- Bob S. (tundra@rangenet.com), January 08, 2002.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ