I own about ten acres in central Texas.

In some places I cannot see exactly where the property boundary is. There is no fence in some places and the property is thick with trees. If I clear these lines then I could see from one marker to another, but is it really a good idea to clear the property lines? What are the benefits that justify the effort? What have you done in similar circumstances and why?

-- Rick#7 (rick7@postmark.net), December 27, 2001

Answers

Bright painted fence stakes are common, but I would advise asking your neighbor(s) to help you sight them from the surveyor's marker as a courtesy. That way you're both more or less happy and you don't have to clear trees that actually you both may want.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), December 27, 2001.

Folks around here use pink flagging tape (available at a hardware store) to mark their tree filled property lines, hang it at eye level in the trees or brush, shows up easily from a great distance and lasts for years. Reflag as necessary to withstand weathering.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), December 27, 2001.

I am confused. I cannot think of any reason to clear the property lines unless (1) you're putting up a fence or (2) the powerlines follow the property lines or (3) you have spare time on your hands. I'm glad everyone who owns a few acres in a wooded area doesn;t go around stringing plastic tape or making straight cuts through the forest. How natural and beautiful is that?!?!? --Happy trails, CF

-- Cabin Fever (cabinfever_mn@yahoo.com), December 27, 2001.

These cleared areas are also known as firestops, disked about twice a year. This depends on whats at risk of fire, how thick is the foliage, how flammable is the ground cover, ect.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), December 27, 2001.

Give me a thick hedgerow between me and the neighbors anytime! When I fence, I put it on my side of the hedgerow so I don't disturb the growth. The only time I worry about cutting a hedgerow is if the OTHER people are thinking about doing it. There is NO WAY I want the limited privacy of those brush and trees removed. Also, for birds, animals, etc, they are very valuable.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), December 27, 2001.

Thanks for the answer, Mitch. We have lots of fire breaks here in northern Minnesota, but not around every little ranchette/farmette. So I wasn't familiar with this practice which must take place in the drier parts of the US. Thanks (found any "angles" for your bread machine?) --Happy trails, CF

-- Cabin Fever (cabinfever_mn@yahoo.com), December 27, 2001.

Texas might have a law similar to Missouri where if you paint your boundary with purple marks it's the same as posting it. Painting trees isn't near as difficult or expensive as clearing or fencing the line. I've found bright flagging to not last long at all. It's designed to photodegrade fairly quickly plus the squirrels and birds like it for nests or who knows what and tear it down.

-- Susan (smtroxel@socket.net), December 27, 2001.

Be very careful about cutting trees on property lines. In New York State property line trees belong to both landowners and both have to agree to the cutting. If you cut them without agreement, you could end up paying your neighbor 3 times the value of the trees cut. We just mark boooundry lines with a blaze of bright blue paint, Not many leaves turn blue in the fall.

-- Paul (treewizard@buffalo.com), December 28, 2001.

If your property lines are lined with trees and brush, LET THEM BE.

They provide habitat for local wildlife that use them for nesting, breeding, and rearing their young. They also provide safe haven for creatures that are traveling across the fields. Furthermore, they provide roosting spots for owls and hawks that eat all those mice and voles that are eating your corn in the fields. They also extend the travel corridors from woodlot to woodlot that solitary adult animals use when they're looking for mates. In doing this, you're making it possible for them to increase their numbers and reducing the chances of their becoming isolated (by open fields), unable to find mates, and ultimately become threatened and/or endangered.

Many migrating birds use fencerows as stopovers between forests on their way to and from their migration grounds. Check out the fencerows in the fall or spring during migration. You'll be amazed at how many birds you see.

It has also been shown that healthy fencerows act as effective windbreaks in both summer and winter and causes less stress on the fields on either side of them by decreasing the chances of moisture being blown off the field and dessicating them.

Need I say more? Rather than tearing down our fencerows we should be adding more and enhancing the ones we have.

Russ

-- (rwhitworth@sprint.ca), December 28, 2001.

I'm with Annie and Russ; leave the fenceline brush as thick as possible. Animals desperately need the habitat. If the trees / brush are damaging your fence, just cut the offending branches and leave the tree standing. An exposed barbed wire fence (I'm guessing here, Rick#7, you didn't mention the material) is pretty dog gone ugly, IMHO. And in the places where fence doesn't exist, your hedgerow will help keep livestock out of your property. Or in your property, as the case maybe.

I'm not a lawyer, but the property lines from a survey take precedence over any road that may or may not be there. Just my .02.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), December 28, 2001.

RICK#7.......AS A SURVEYOR I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT EVERYONE CUT THEIR PROPERTY LINES AND WALK THEM AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR.KEEP THEM CUT AS WELL SO THEY DON`T GROW OVER.DRIVE IN 4' PIECES OF REBAR AND WRAP FLAGGING NEAR THE TOPS.ABOUT EVERY 50' OF THE PERIMETER.

WHY YOU ASK... [1]TO KEEP NEIGHBOURS FROM DUMPING GARBAGE ON YOUR PROPERTY [2]TO KEEP NEIGHBOURS FROM ENCROUCHING ON YOUR PROPERTY [3]TO KEEP NEIGHBOURS FROM CUTTING LOGS OFF YOUR PROPERTY [4]REMEMBER THE OLD ADAGE ABOUT GOOD FENCES MAKE GOOD NEIGHBOURS.WELL THE SAME CAN BE SAID ABOUT PROPERTY LINES. [5]PEOPLE ALWAYS SEEM TO TRY AND TAKE MORE LAND.IF A GUY STARTED TO GARDEN ON YOUR LAND AND MAINTAINED IT.BUILT A FENCE ON YOUR PROPERTY OVER A PERIOD OF TIME HE GAINS THAT PROPERTY IN MOST AREAS.SQUATERS RIGHTS. [6]THE LAST BIG JOB I WAS ON A FEW MONTHS BACK.BUILDING A LARGE APPARTMENT BUILDING.THERE WERE 8 ADJOINING PROPERTIES.ALL OF THESE PROPERTIES HAD ENCROUCHED ON THE PROPERTY I WAS WORKING ON.ONE CORNER WAS ACTUALLY IN ONE HOUSES LIVINGROOM.ANOTHER BUILT A LONG DRIVEWAY TO MAKE PARKING SPOTS.THE DRIVEWAY WASN`T ON HIS PROPERTY. WE DUG UP WHERE HE PUT IN A VERY FANCY RETAINING WALL AND PATIO.HE DID THIS BECAUSE HE HAD NO PARKING TO GO WITH HIS COMMERCIAL BUILDING. [HARD TO RENT COMMERCIAL SPACE WITH NO PARKING FOR TENANTS OR THEIR CUSTOMERS.HE DID A GREAT LANDSCAPING JOB AS WELL...BUT AGAIN IT WASN`T ON HIS PROPERTY.] [7]NOW IF YOU BLAZE AND SET REBAR ALONG YOUR LINES YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE ANY ONE TRESPASSING/ENCROUCHING/DUMPING/BURNING/CUTTING/BUILDING. [8]THESE ENCROUCHMENT STORIES HAPPEN EVERY DAY.EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW THEIR PROPERTY LINES,THE PIN LOCATION ETC. [9]MOST PEOPLE SEEM TO TAKE THEIR LEAVES AND GRASS CLIPPINGS TO THE BACK OF THEIR PROPERTY.AND DUMP IT WHERE THEY KNOW ITS OFF THEIR PROPERTY.BUILD THEIR SHEDS IN THE BACK AND SET THEM JUST A LITTLE FURTHER.WHY?BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. [10]IF NOTHING ELSE,THE FACT THAT THOSE NEIGHBOURS CAN LAY CLAIM TO YOUR LAND OVER TIME.THIS SHOULD KEEP YOUR EYES AND EARS OPEN. [11]TO KEEP THE NEIGHBOURS KIDS FROM CUTTING TREES,BUILDING CAMPS, SPIKING TREES,STARTING FIRES.PLUS IF THEY HURT THEMSELVES ON YOUR LAND THERE COULD BE LEGAL IMPLICATIONS.

I LIVE IN A SUBDIVISION AND ALL MY NEIGHBOURS HAVE ENCROUCHED ON MY LAND AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER. [1]ONE BUILT A FENCE ABOUT 2' INTO MY YARD. [2]ANOTHER DUMPED RUBBLE FROM HIS YARD INTO MINE.WHEN I ASKED HIM ABOUT IT HE SAID "I THOUGHT THAT WAS MY PROPERTY".WELL THE TWO PROPERTY PINS WERE IN AND EASILY FOUND.HE WAS 15'-20' INTO MY YARD. I SAID "DID YOU THINK MY DRIVE WAY WAS ON YOUR LAND OR WHAT.BECAUSE YOU DUMPED UP TO MY HOUSE.I HAVE 27 FEET BETWEEN MY HOUSE AND YOUR PROPERTY LINE."I PAINT THE PINS EVERY YEAR. [3]I CAUGHT NEIGHBOURS TRYING TO PULL THE PROPERTY PINS.I`D SAY "EXCUSE ME...I PAID GOOD MONEY TO HAVE THAT SET THERE.AND BESIDES ITS A FEDERAL OFFENCE TO REMOVE THEM." [4]I FIND NEIGHBOURS SEEM TO LIKE TO DUMP OVER THE PROPERTY PINS TO TRY AND HIDE THEM.I SEEM TO FIND BOULDERS IN MY YARD EVERY TIME THEY DO WORK.THERE IS AN AREA TO DUMP ABOUT 200' AWAY.SO WE PLAY THIS GAME BY THROWING THE ROCK OVER THE FENCE BACK AND FORTH.BUT IT DIDN`T ORIGINATE FROM MY YARD. [5]MY NEIGHBOUR FROM HELL`S KIDS MADE A SKATEBOARD RAMP.IT GETS PLACED IN MY YARD EVERY NIGHT.[BEEN THERE FOR ABOUT A YEAR NOW.]THE MUNICIPALITY WON`T TOUCH/REMOVE IT.NOR WILL THE DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAYS BECAUSE ITS ON MY PROPERTY.I`LL DRAG IT OVER NEAR MY GARBAGE PICK UP SOME DAY.MAYBE I SHOULD FIRE UP THE CHAINSAW.HIS KIDS HAVE MADE MY YARD AN ANNEX OF THEIRS AGAINST MY WISHES.IF I FLIP IT IN THEIR YARD...THEY FLIP IT BACK.UNFORTUNATELY YOU CAN`T PICK YOUR NEIGHBOURS.

NOW ON OLDER,LARGER PROPERTIES THE LINES ARE BLAZED AND RUN ZIGZAG ALONG THE BOUNDARIES.THERE ARE MARKS ON TREES ESTABLISHED BY A SURVEYOR.I HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THEM MYSELF SO NON-SURVEYORS WOULD BE LOST IN MARKING THESE LINES.IF YOU HAVE A DRAWING/PLAN CHECK TO SEE IF A STRAIGHT LINE WOULD BE FAIR TO BOTH OWNERS.IF THIS IS IN AGREEMENT THEN GET YOUR NEIGHBOUR TO HELP MARK IT OFF.I KNOW I`D RATHER HAVE IT DEFINED BY A STRAIGHT LINE THAN 30 ZIGS AND ZAGS.SIGN AN AGREEMENT THAT YOU BOTH DEFINE THE LINE AS BEING STRAIGHT FROM THE TWO CORNER PINS.ATTACH THIS TO THE FILES IN THE REGISTRY OF DEEDS. THE BEAUTY OF THIS ...IS IF YOU HEAR CHAINSAWS RUNNING YOU CAN CHECK EASILY IF THEY ARE ON YOUR PROPERTY BEFORE THEY DO MUCH DAMAGE. THERE IS SO MUCH OF THIS ABUSE GOING ON YOU WOULDN`T BELIEVE IT.ITS YOUR LAND SO DON`T LET ANYONE STEAL IT AWAY FROM UNDER YOU.

CORDWOODGUY

-- CORDWOODGUY (cordwoodguy@n2teaching.com), December 28, 2001.

Thanks a lot for the advice. My property has barbed wire at some partys of the boundary, but mostly it has no fence at all, just an invisible line between the boundary pins.

Hey Cordwood Guy, you seem to have pretty ornery neighbors. I think I will take into account the character of my different neighbors. Maybe I will clear one side, and leave the other side as is. I thyink I can predict where the trouble, if any, would come from.

Rick#7

-- Rick#7 (rick7@postmark.net), December 28, 2001.

Rick, do you have real trees along your proprty line or just cedar (actually juniper)? On ten acres I would want as many real trees as possible between me and my neighbors.

-- paul (primrose@centex.net), December 29, 2001.

Here's a funny story. In KY, the farms are open pastures with all the property lines in barbed wire or field fence with huge cedars in all the fences. You can see the property lines from an airplane because of all the cedars grown up in them.

Well, when I divided my old farm, and cut off an acre, the surveyers made me pay to survey the whole place. 1000.00. I asked why of course, and was told, "in case someone moved the fence." Yeah right, there were 50 foot cedars in the fence lines, hadn't been moved for over 100 years. I had to pay anyway.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), December 29, 2001.

I'm planning on clearing trees and brush away from my perimeter fence so I can keep a close eye on the quality of the fence. Plus, we need to rebuild a lot of the perimeter fence in the next few years.

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), December 29, 2001.

I'm for cutting the property lines and fencing. I have a very large area cleared at the fences, still leaves all the woods and brush in the middle, we can see very little of our perimeter fences from the house or barns, yet they are cleared so well son can ride his 3 wheeler down them. You have no idea where your boundries are until you fence, and bigger still your neighbors unless old timers, don't have a clue either. Good fences make for better neighbors! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 30, 2001.

Rick, Clear and mark your line!! Properties change hands, and all neighbors are not nice or agreeable.

-- Nathan Harris Sr. (barnyard_mini@yahoo.com), December 31, 2001.

I agree with the surveyor. Maintain the property lines and walk them! People tend to think they own more than they do.

-- karen croyle (ponogup@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.

Well, you may not run fence and you may not need to clear a wide swath but if the property were mine I'd damn sure know *exactly* where my property corners were and have line of sight from one to the other.

When we bought our property last fall a survey was required to get financing. I know exactly where my corners are and my neighbors and I are all happy about the lines. Very reassuring when you go through the time, trouble and considerable expense to run hundreds of feet of fencing.

A friend of mine just discovered that her neighbor in having his back lot logged lost what appears to be nearly a hundred tree off of her property as well. The logger stated he thought he was on the property that was supposed to be logged. Now she and her neighbor are at odds over the value of the trees where before that incident they'd gotten along fine for years. A clearly defined property line would have prevented that.

........Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), February 18, 2002.