My husband had a backache for 3 days in a row. About 1:00am this morning he woke up grabbing his left side. He is never ever sick and has a very high pain tolerance so I knew something was definitely wrong! I convinced him to go to the emergency room and they did some tests. It is a kidney stone. Do any of you have them and if so is there anything that will help? They ran a dye test to make sure. They sent us home with some pain medications and antinausea stuff. He was very sick to his stomach at first, but now is better. They told me to force him to drink liquids. HA! FORCE him to do something! ;~)! I was terrified! I have never seen him in such pain and he was trying to hide it from me so I wouldn't worry. Any suggestions?

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 02, 2001

Answers

Gatorade,,, lots,,,, 2 gallons a day,, my brother had stones,,,, the more he is peeing the better. By the powder mix,, and make it by the pitcher

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), December 02, 2001.

In men, too much calcium via excess intake of dairy products is a common cause of kidney stones, as is too much coffee drinking, and too little plain water intake every day.

My personal favorite for helping dissolve and preventing future kidney stones is taking diluted cider vinegar twice every day, two tablespoons taken in a glass with an ounce or two of water added, drink quickly as if taking a shot of whiskey. This acidifies the urine and helps keep the excess calcium in solution so it can be passed, also helps dissolve the existing stones.

Many folks take the vinegar every day to help their digestion, aching joints, and help prevent colds and flu, it's an old timers cure all.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), December 02, 2001.

Yes Annie is right on the money with the vinager. I use it as a prevention in my buck goats water to keep them from developing stones.

-- sherrie (bryrpatch35@aol.com), December 02, 2001.

As a physician assistant, I can testify that a kidney stone is likely the most pain a male can experience. Lots of liquids, (NO CAFFEINE, limit dairy products, 3 liters of water more a day than he usually drinks)Cranberry juice/apple cider vinegar are good choices. Hopefully, the ER gave you a screen to filter his urine. If he passes the stone, take it to your doctor to get it analyzed.

-- Jim NE KY (jedeweese@earthlink.net), December 02, 2001.

Does anyone have a recipe for gatorade? I have gotten him to drink a couple of glasses of water and one of juice so far. I am not brave enough to suggest the vinegar yet. I will wait until he gets over this first stone before I suggest that. :~D! He is up and fine this morning? I keep looking at him like he is a time bomb ready to go off at any minute. I am not sure what to expect. The doctor said that he would be in a lot of pain today and he is acting like he is just fine, but very tired. Hope we aren't in for a rough go of it later. Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far!!!! I have heard about the vinegar for other things, but not for the stones. I will certainly TRY to see if he will do that as a precaution against more. I know that he will have to give up his Dr. Pepper habbit or at least tone it down a bit. I truly appreciate having someone to "talk" to this about! Thanks ya'll!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 02, 2001.

Oh, Jim, we must have posted at the same time! Yes we have the screen and getting him to use it is....well.......interesting to say the least! Since that makes it 3 people for the vinegar I am definitely going to figure out a way for him to drink it. He is my only picky eater of the family. The kids will eat anything. Hubby won't. Anything to make it easier to take?

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 02, 2001.

He's a big boy now. If he won't take the recommendations to avoid the most painful event a male can experience without your babying him, so be it. It's up to him to make the choice now, isn't it. My husband has had three and they are scary. Especially the first when you don't know what is going on.

-- Nancy (nannyb@huntel.net), December 02, 2001.

vinegar is a good preventative,, Id still go with the gatorade for now,,till he passes it,, As for drinking the vinegar,, I make a tea,, a shot of vinegar,, teaspoon of honey,, and hot water,, stir and sip,, I can drink that most of the day now

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), December 02, 2001.

Yep! I baby him, but have been doing it for over 17 years and no time to stop now. I don't mind a bit and he would most assuredly mind if I quit;~)!!! That tea business of yours Stan sounds like it might work. I will fix him some tomorrow after he gets the rest of this liquid down him. He is doing pretty well on that right now. Does anyone know if too much salt is bad for his kidneys? He eats an awful lot of salt. He has low blood pressure and is very healthy otherwise.

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 02, 2001.

Oh...just wanted to say thanks again for all of the caring responses! I really love this forum for all of the caring folks that are there to help! And yes! It sure is scary the first time that it happens! Nice to know that someone else has been there and pardon the pun.....this too shall pass! heehee! Sorry, blame it on sleep deprivation! Any other suggestions are most welcome! Thanks ya'll~!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 02, 2001.

Annie--Thanks for the cider vinegar info. Tom has had several kidney stones and always wondered if there was a way to prevent them.

-- vicki in NW OH (thga76@aol.com), December 02, 2001.

All us men have to think we are in control but after about the sixth kidney stone attack we begin to listen and do as people tell us. He may not think he has to drink all that liquid but after he has one that does not pass and has the pain for several days he will do anything, repeat ANYTHING, just for a little relief. He has my sympithy. If he has already stopped hurting, he has probably passed the stone and it was small. My first two were that way, the next two was not that easy. He probably has more stones in his kidneys but may be sometime before he has another attack or mabey never, hopefully. David

-- David (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), December 02, 2001.

I spent more than half of last June in the hospital with kidney stones The doctor tried lithotripsy, a procedure to break up the stones using sound waves. This was very expensive and all it accomplished was to break my three stones into 15 pieces that were still too big to pass. After 10 more days of agony I had surgery to remove the pieces. All of this cost about $15,000 to Blue Cross and $3000 to me... and it can happen again at any time. Needless to say, every time I get a twinge in my back I freak out. Good luck.

-- cathy in NC (planet10@gloryroad.net), December 02, 2001.

Oh boy! That sounds awful! Apple cider vinegar here we come. I have a gallon jug of it in the pantry. Does it lose it's potency over time. I have had it for a year. I use the white to pickle with. Will that jug be ok after being in there that long?

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 02, 2001.

Having a stone is painful but not near as bad as passing that bad boy (until a stone pass I thought an attack zipper rated as #1). I found a shot glass (1.5 ounces) of cider vinegar in eight ounces of cranberry juice tastes best.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), December 02, 2001.

I live in an area of the country that has limestone caverns. The water tastes great but the build up will get you. I had a kidney stone last summer. The advice from my physician was to drink lots of beer (it is a diuretic) and lay in a warm tub of water. Seven hours and twelve beers later, I was a new woman. The beer buz was nice, the warm water felt good and the kidney stone hurt like HELL! I did go to work the next day. The best RX I have ever been given. (Except for the hangover.)

-- Terri Perry (teperry@stargate.com), December 02, 2001.

Nan, When I was trying to pass a kidney stone, my herbalist told me to drink water with fresh lemon juice in it. The acid from the lemon dissolves the rough edges from the stone(this is what causes the pain and bleeding) and it also helps break it down. Within a day of the lemon juice drink I had passed the stone and it wasn't nearly as bad as one I had before. He also gave me herbs to take along with the lemonwater and he now has a webpage if you are interested. It is www.herbpage.com Good luck, and get well soon to DH. Kim in Indiana :-D

-- Kim in Indiana (kwcountrygirl@aol.com), December 03, 2001.

Well if you like to baby him, go right ahead. It works for you! I probably baby my husband a little too, but he admits I am not sympathic to his pain most of the time. Somehow telling women how to prevent babies and the subsequent pain of childbirth doesn't stop the conception either:). Our two are the greatest and now our new grandbaby also.

-- Nancy (nannyb@huntel.net), December 03, 2001.

http://www.embassyofheaven.com/catalog/cleanse.htm

If you scroll past the preaching and testimonials, you'll find a kidney/gaul stone cleanse. I did it a couple months ago and it worked. I was totally amazed by the results, especially since I did not follow it strictly, I ate nothing, but did still had at least one cup of coffee each day to curb my appetite. The last night I was awoken by a popping feeling, but there was no pain involved. The olive oil was nauseating to get down, so I poured it in a glass with a bit of water. I used a straw to lower to the bottom of the glass so I began sucking on water and slowly raised the straw up into the oil (tricking my stomach:) and then lowered it back down to the water when the oil got to be too much. Similarly, when doing saltwater flushes, I would mix the salt in a very little amount of water, swill it, then follow it up with a quart of water instead of trying to drink a quart of salt water-ugh! I hope your hubby gets better soon!

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), December 03, 2001.

Well, he went back to work today! The doctor told him that if he could keep going it would cause it to pass more quickly. YOU ALL ARE THE GREATEST! THANKS FOR THE ADVICE AND THE LISTENING EARS! IF ANYONE HAS ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD, FEEL FREE, I HAVE GOTTEN SO MUCH GREAT INFO OUT OF ALL OF THIS!!!!!!! Funny that Kim should say that about the lemon juice. Yesterday I just could not convince him to take the vinegar.(He is a funny combination of a grizzley bear and a baby!) I made him the strongest glass of lemon aide that I could! I figured that if the vinegar could do the trick that the lemon juice would help too. He made a face at first but drank at least a half cup of pure lemon juice in that glass mixed with water and sugar. A mothering sort has gotta do what she has gotta do! heeheehee!~ He had a little bit of a rough night last night, but is doing much better today. Now I have to figure out the vinegar. We will certainly have marinaded something for dinner tonight! LOL! I also heard that a B vitamin deficiency can cause them and that a magnesium deficiency can add to the problem too. Has anyone else ever heard of that? I got that information off of a homeopathic web page from a friend. GOD BLESS YA'LL! KEEP THAT INFO COMING AND GIVE YOURSELVES A NICE HUG FOR ME! :~D !!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 03, 2001.

Nan, yes to the too much salt, sodium cloride leaches calcium STRAIGHT OUT OF YOUR BONES as you metabolise it, and where do you think that leached out calcium goes as you excrete it? The kidneys!!!

Have him lay off the salt, it is a VERY BAD thing to ingest too much of, regardless of BP or being male or female!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), December 03, 2001.

Annie, thanks for the info. but what is BP?

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 03, 2001.

Oops! Sorry, is that Blood pressure? Duh!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 03, 2001.

My husband had three kidney stone attacks last year. Ever since the last one he has been a fanatic about drinking water. He stopped soda all together and drinks about 2 gallons of water a day. I guess it worked because he hasn't had an attack in over a year.

-- buffy (buffyannjones@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

I read back over some of the responses and am still chuckling over the one from Epona! That purge sounds great and I know it would work! It would take me and about a hundred other people, a squeeze chute and a lot of coercion to get him to drink only apple juice for 4 days straight and then olive oil and lemon juice (and you can forget the enema! heeheehee!). It does kinda make my sadistic side giggle though, because he is so awnry!!!!! I know that he would go for the cranberry/vinegar combination . Thanks Jay and all the others that suggested that. Terri, my husband has only had one beer or so in his whole life and I don't think that I would like to see him drunk! YIKES! :~) It does make that awnry side of me giggle to think about that too though! heeheehee! snicker snicker! and Kim, I am calling that phone number off of the web site you suggested as soon as I get off of this computer for this morning. THanks all!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 03, 2001.

OK, here's how to do actually TASTY vinegar. It's called "shrub" and is what people drank for fun before they came up with soda pop. This is a recipe for blackberry, but you can use lots of different fruits in place of blackberries.

Pick a bunch of blackberries. Put them in a glass or ceramic container. Pour in cider vinegar (that's real cider vinegar, not cider-flavored vinegar) until berries are just barely covered. Push down the few that are still above the vinegar. Cover the container (to keep out fruit flies which LOVE this stuff) and let it sit on the counter for 24 hours. Then mash the berries (or put them in the blender) and strain off all the juice/vinegar. Discard the pulp. To each cup of juice/vinegar, add 1/2 cup of sugar. In a stainless steel or glass pot, bring the mixture to a boil, reduce heat, and simmer 30 minutes. Pour hot into clean bottles. Hide in a cool, dark place. To use, put 2 or 3 tablespoons into the bottom of a tumbler. Add ice to the top. Add cold water. Stir well. Re-hide the bottle!

This stuff is truly nummy. I have a jar of the syrup here at the office, and all the folks who've tried it have asked for the recipe. That's why I had it handy to insert into this response. If he has to drink three or four glasses a day to get his three or four tablespoons of vinegar, I don't think he'll fuss. In fact, you'll likely be kept busy making up refills! Hope this helps.

(Now you've got me started. Think I'll go mix up a tall one!)

-- Laura Jensen (lauraj@seedlaw.com), December 03, 2001.

I have blackberries in the freezer from this summer! Eureka I think we have it! Ha! SHHHHHHH! We don't have to tell him what it is do we? ;~)!!!!!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 03, 2001.

On a side note, the phosphorus in cola drinks (like Dr Pepper) will also cause serious bone leaching, with the attending excretion, as will excess protein in the diet (it acidifies your bloodstream somehow and the body leaches calcium from the bones to counteract it - but this is NOT the same kind of acidification that is helpful to the kidneys.)

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

He went to work today! He says that he is feeling better! I have a feeling that there are more little stones in there. Hope not! He hasn't had any caffeine in 2 days! He did drink a rootbeer today, but it was no caffeine, and some orange juice and lots of water! We had very strong lemonade made from lemon juice for dinner tonight. I am also going to make some of that vinegar blackberry stuff! Thanks ya'll! Next week we are going to start cutting back a little at a time on the salt.....

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 03, 2001.

Jeeze, sorry you guys had to go thru that. A few of my friends have had stones, but they all got the same treatment ~ the doctor zapped with a lazer. The stones were smashed to smitherings and were eliminated.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.

Just a thought. Since you haven't retreived the stone for analysis yet, be very careful about eating any organ meats and lay off the orange juice. If his stone is not calcium the above could exascerbate the situation. No way to tell until the stone is analyzed. I have a friend that has this problem and he had to give up his liver and onions and his morning glass of orange juice to control his stone production. Keep up the high level of fluid intake though no matter what to keep the urine dilute. God bless.

-- Sandra Nelson (Magin@starband.net), December 04, 2001.

Hi Nan, I'm betting frozen blackberries are a bit squishy and will allow less vinegar between them than fresh berries would, so you might want to add a bit more vinegar than just barely covering the berries. Also, do this to taste, of course, but frozen berries tend to be less sweet, so more sugar might also be in order. Hope you like it as well as I do!

-- Laura Jensen (lauraj@seedlaw.com), December 04, 2001.

Would a few blueberries added to the mix taste good too? Thought that I would throw in some. No orange juice? Yikes! He gave up caffeine! 3 days without it now!!!!! But he has been drinking orange juice and other fruit juices instead! He never drank orange juice as a rule until lately. He was told that it was almost certainly a calcium one. How can they tell until he passes it?

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 04, 2001.

Just checking back in with everyone! Hubby is doing great! He is off of caffeine completely! None for 5 days now! I am very proud of him! Doing the lemon juice(never could convince him of the vinegar). Been drinking water like a fish! Guess that one episode made a believer out of him! Thanks for all of the wonderful ideas and the recipes! You guys are the best! God Bless you all!!!!!!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 06, 2001.