Since posting the message yesterday about the cat banding, I have had many people respond. I have had some people who are nice and are trying to give what I asked for, "Information." Some others are being real jerks {not the word that should be used for them.} I just wanted to find out what it would involve. I have had some messages saying that I am a troll, which I don't really know what that is in Internet talk, I may look rough in the mornings, but I'm no troll thank you. I have been looking and some people gave me some places to look like the - P.U.P. people in Cookeville, though that is too far from me, I live in West TN, I am still looking, the vets in my area take advandtage of the fact that we are rural and I need to find a vet that is affordable, I have no job, 3 kids, college student, and lots of dr. bills thanks to surgery. My husband works 60 hours everyweek to try to put food on the table. I'm not on welfare or food stamps, I am not looking for a hand out just an alternative to the expensive vets in my area. I am not going to put my animals to sleep because I have fallen on some temporary hard times. I have 2 dogs, 2 snakes, 2 birds, 2 cats, and 1 horse to provide for also. For the people who suggest that I should have them put down, I would like you to explain that to my 3 children and see what they tell you. I get a little peeved when I hear people mouth off when they have no idea what the situation is. If they loose their jobs or get sick, does that mean that they are bad people and should not have pets? Do they want their pets all put down?

-- Vanessa Hayes (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001

Answers

Vanessa, yes, some people are jerks, and in the past, on a "bad" day, I have told folks that they should not have pets and even children, if they could not afford to care properly for them, ask Tiffani what I told her years ago about her sick goat, I was polite, but insensitive, and I apologized to Tiffani profusely for it!

I do encourage you to keep looking for alternatives to the banding, keep searching for a lower cost program, someone out there in your neck of the woods knows of one, it will just take some time.

Everyone can fall on difficult times, even me and anyone, and I hope I have the emotional courage to deal with it, best of luck in your search!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), November 29, 2001.

Hi Vanessa. Sorry to hear about your misfortunes, especially at this time of year. I have noticed that there are people on this forum ready to jump down anyone's throat anytime they read something they disagree with. Don't bother them with the facts, their mind is made up, and they're just looking for an excuse to jump up on their soapbox and speak their mind to any captive audience.

There were some good posts from people making suggestions to find a local humane society or animal rescue to help get the cat properly neutered. It was correct to point out that this banding this is cruel, please don't do this. There are others however who like to indulge in being crude in giving advice on such a subject. But give advice in an appropriate manner, you don't need to verbally tear a strip off every poster who may not have given their life's story to explain the situation.

Before judging anyone in this forum and jumping to conclusions, take a breath and READ THEIR POST OVER A SECOND or THIRD TIME. Before falsely accusing someone of being a troll, ask a few questions if you're not sure of their intentions. Trolls usually hit and run, legitimate posters usually willingly fill in the details.

Vanessa, good luck with your cat. There are many good sites on the web for pet information, start with the yahoo egroups and look for cat forums, I'm sure if you post your question on there several people will be willing to give the information you need.

-- Chelsea (damselfly747@yahoo.ca), November 29, 2001.

Sorry, Vanessa. Trolls are the pranksters who have been hitting this site. As for the comment, Banding is a slow process and your children are bound to see the cat in pain and trying to remove the band. Would you rather give the cat to someone who can take care of the cat in a responsible, humane manner (the way all living creatures deserve) and explain to the kids that you aren't able to deal with the cats problems as it deserves or let them witness this horrid thing? I'm sure you will make the right decision.

-- Dawn (olsoncln@ecenet.com), November 29, 2001.

Every try to find a home for a 9 month old un neutered cat ? You got a better chance of getting hit by lightening

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), November 29, 2001.

Hello, Vanessa. Yep, some folks on this forum are just flat jerks. Sorry so many of them jumped on you. I know what it's like to go through hard times, and wish you and your family (and your critters) the best! Here is some information I found on a website that promotes low cost spaying and neutering for cats. These are the sites listed in Tennessee. I don't know if any of them are close to you, but if not, maybe one of them could offer some information. TENNESSEE

Humane Association of Wilson County
446 Quarry Road
Mount Juliet, TN 37122
615-444-9979

Beesley Animal Humane Foundation Spay/Neuter Clinic
1140 Haley Road
Murfreesboro, TN 37129
615-890-6878

Nashville Humane Association
112 Harding Place
Nashville, TN 37205
615-352-4030
Call to learn about their low cost spay/neuter program, in partnership with Friends of Animals and with the Davidson County veterinary association.

Humane Association of Wilson County
446 Quarry Road
Mount Juliet, TN
615-444-9979

PO Box 17494
Memphis, TN 38187
901-377-3779

Hardin County Adopt-A-Cat
8325 Highway 128 South
Savannah, TN 38372
adoptacat@freeyellow.com email
Low cost spay/neuter for pets of county residents.

Hardin County Humane Society
PO Box 874
Savannah, TN 38326
901-689-3963
Low cost spay/neuter for pets.

Here's the website in case anyone wants to check it out:

http://www.lovethatcat.com/spayneuter.html

Please keep us posted, Vanessa. Some of us really do care!

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), November 29, 2001.

If I'm one who offended you, please accept my apology. I tried to be as kind as possible in discouraging you from home-neutering. I was not assuming that you were a troll or a bad person, but please understand how this banding idea could hit some of us the wrong way. When actual animal cruelty is a fact of your real daily life, you get pretty sensitive to stuff like this, even if someone is "just asking". And, I maintain that having a vet neuter your pets is just about the most basic responsibilty there is to pet ownership, right down there with feeding. It's just not optional. You can either afford proper care, or you can't--and that's not passing judgement on your decency as a human being. Someone else suggested making donations to get this cat neutered...I'd chip in. Didn't we try this with someone elses dog (Was it Cindy in KY?) a while back? I remember the dog died before it came neutering time...

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), November 29, 2001.

Some of the answers I have gotten were from people to chicken to let other people see what jerks they are. Someone emailed me directly to my home without posting their answer. This is what they wrote: {From: JBakerBosco@cs.com How bout i wrap a rubberband around your TITS so you can see how that feels . Sounds like you have no business with a pet of any kind!} ================== Very rude email wouldn't you say? That's not the only one like that, but it is so far the worst.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

I do not know how old your children are, but if they have dealt with your being ill, tension in the house due to many bills, Dad working many hours etc., I think they could deal with an animal being put to sleep, or, depending upon their ages, (since you might be on a real farm) you could just say the cat ran away (city people often tell children that the animal went to a nice farm to live until they are old enough to understand). Cats do run away--happens all the time, and that would be better than the cat getting shot and your children finding it, or watching the cat suffer through the banding process.

I don't think any of the honest posters here think that when you have a bad spell of luck that all the pets need to go. Perhaps instead, all of the family expenses need to be looked at (and sometimes having an objective person--not in the immediate family--helps) and you may be able to cut back a little here or there and "find" the money that way. Every household can find some purchase habit to change, no matter how frugal you are, because everyone has "preferences" and they can be changed.

Sometimes if you ask your children "what could we do to save money to help out our cat that we love" they will surprise you. Lesson in what is truly important.

I am truly sorry you received awful messages from people, that is really uncalled for.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 29, 2001.

your cat is seriously too old to undergo the band treatment. Were it a younger animal - maybe - just maybe - but at its present age - it would a very painful, itchy, stinky, oozing mess - I promise you - what about infection? If you don't care for the cat to suffer - go for it - but if you do care - have it profesionally done - or not at all. Just my 0.02

-- DR (cabarrus farmer@aol.com), November 29, 2001.

Vanessa,

The Internet is a reflection of the world we live in -- mostly nice people plus a few jerks.

Here's a suggestion regarding your cat. There is an organization called Noah's Ark (sometimes spelled Arc) that is basically an animal no-kill rescue and shelter program staffed by volunteers and supported by donations. Group's of Noah's Ark people are in all parts of the country and there are some in Western TN.

You might try calling some local vets and ask if they particpate in the Noah's Ark program. Maybe, they can help in your situation. Perhaps they can give you the phone number of the local Noah's Ark group. The group might be willing to help pay the cost of neutering your cat, or at least cover most of the cost performed by a local vet.

Just a thought and hope it helps you.

Good Luck.

-- Ed (ecpubs@lynchburg.net), November 29, 2001.

have you considered letting the cat outdoors to be in its natural enviroment, even if just occasionally? It might quit spraying in your home if it was allowed to mark its territory outside. To let a cat live as close to natural as possible seems like the humane option to me.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), November 29, 2001.

Just a little Note to mr or ms nospam: *I do live on a farm, my 93 yr old grandfather's farm. In a doublewide we put on the property when my husband got out of the Navy in '87. Yes, Santa Claus I do exist.* We no longer have cows, pigs, chickens etc. Just pets. I mentioned somewhere that I have 2 birds, 2 cats, 2 dogs, 2 snakes and a horse, I forgot about the guinea pig in my son's room.

I did have a cat put to sleep several years ago, that had become paralyzed from mid way down. My children were very little, but the oldest one still blames me saying "you killed my cat." And my cats wouldn't run away because they are not allowed to go outside the house. They have been in the house since I got them from someone who was going to drop them on the road side at 4 weeks old. I hand fed them and wiped their behinds to make them use the bathroom. I had to get them over fleas, and the ringworm which my kids and I caught from them. I would never kill a healthy cat, that is nuts. That would be like me taking my children to the gas chamber because I don't have the money to buy food for them, or like some women have done - drowning them. The whole attitude of: if you can't afford something, or someone, or they are on your nerves, you just kill them is what I call inhumane. And before some freak starts in about how I should castrate my sons, or some such whacked out mess, I went against the doctor and did not even have them circumsized, so I don't want to hear about how someone thinks I am being cruel to my animals. I have not done anything to them! I was told about the banding procedure by a woman who runs a kennel and sells dogs and cats for a living. I was just looking for some information about the subject, jeez and perhaps a little help finding an alternative solution, that does not involve murdering my pets! Or turning them over to the Humane society who would murder them.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

To the person who asked about sending kitty outside. No. It is not humane where I live to send him outside. One of the stray dogs I took in killed a young cat my son tried to carry home that he found starving in the ditch in by the road. The cat freaked out when the dogs came running up and scratched my 6 yr old son so severely in the face,that I had to take him to the hospital. My son screams when the cats get near the door. I tried putting the cat outside in a rabbit cage, but he is terrified to even be carried outside. He has never set foot in the grass. I had an outdoor cat before I got the stray dog, the neighbors shot him when he went into their yard {they are from Alaska and don't like having neighbors or animals around} My Boston Terrier I had a year ago, disappeared after he was spotted in their area. They poisioned another neighbor's dog. If that's not bad enough, the woods around our house are full of coyotes. So No it is not humane to let him out of the house. I wish I could do something about my bad neighbors, but I don't have any physical proof.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

I understand about not being able to put the cat outside--our dog would do the same thing (also a rescued dog). If you can't find affordable care for the cat, though, do look into finding a different home for it. I once took in a 4-yr old female with heartworm, because the owner couldn't care for it anymore. Cat lovers abound! Again, sorry for the knee-jerk reaction. I just cannot imagine... ick. If this procedure is punishable by law, the person who told you about it needs to be told so they will stop.

-- Dawn (olsoncln@ecenet.com), November 29, 2001.

Cats do get out occasionally, unless you are keeping them locked in a cage, and even then there is a first time for everything. Telling children a small fib (which might have been done in the first case you mentioned when you put the very ill cat to sleep and avoided the problem you later had) is not going to cause lasting damage to your children.

The woman you mentioned who runs a kennel has a legitimate business, and if she does it herself she has a lot of experience. You don't, and as others have posted, you could inadvertently kill the cat through your inexperience, and cause the cat a lot of pain at the same time whether or not you are successful. The probability of your killing the cat is what prompted some of us to suggest putting the cat to sleep, not the affordability (whether you can afford to feed it or not) issue.

Another thing you might consider is that since it is a family pet, not only could you get in trouble with the SPCA, PETA, and other organizations (obviously they are more active in some states than others), not to mention local animal cruelty laws if any (again, this varies as to state), but did it ever occur to you that a relative or the state could come after you for potential child abuse since there are children on the property and they would be witness to the cat's suffering? Mental anguish, etc. etc. The right lawyer and enough bad press and you could lose your children to a relative, or even worse to the state, and that would be a lot worse than putting a cat to sleep at the vet's.

Many have offered other solutions, even I have in earlier posts. One you said was too far away. I could understand someone in So. CA saying that about somewhere in No CA, but most states are not that large, so "too far away" was not the best reason you could give for not going. For example, if you called and they said they couldn't help you because you were from "out of the county area they served" that would be different.

But you have to live with your decision.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 29, 2001.

Deer tjae bird, I don't remember exactly what you wrote, but I don't understand why they would have deleted it, not when some other people have sent out some very nasty things that have not been deleted. Were you the one who said something about praying? Maybe the deleter is against that? WHO knows.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

The next clinic the place in east tenn has is based on people on foodstamps, etc. I have not reached that point. I have written to them to ask for assistance in finding somewhere else to go. And I do not LIE to my kids. I teach them not to lie, that would by hypocritical. My son was 5 when we put the other cat to sleep, {which also costs about $30 here if done by a vet} he is almost 11 now, and still brings it up, so you can't say that it does not effect them, or that they won't hold it against you for doing it. My kids know better than to think the cat would get out. He runs in terror when the door is opened. And they are very very careful about not even opening the door when the other cat {who wants to go outside} is near the door. It is very hard to give a full grown cat away in this area. Everyone has cats running loose overpopulating and getting ran over. I live on a farm, so the cat going to live on a farm does not work {even if I did lie}. And the kids know what happens on farms to cats around here. That would just scare them more.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

Vanessa, that e-mail you got from JBoscoBaker@cs.com is from an ISP I recognize in NE Ohio, if it is a real addy and you want to contact his ISP, let me know, I can give you the phone number. My relatives up north us that ISP.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), November 29, 2001.

Mr. Or Ms. Nospam; I forgot about the kids thing you said. I can't even get their grandparents to babysit them overnight, I don't think anyone in my family would try to take them away. ---- I had to drop out of night school, because their grandmother just couldn't take it anymore! --- HA: She finally agreed after a 6 month vacation from them that she would stay with them for 4 hours a week while I go to school. The cats played too wild a couple of weeks ago, knocked the snake cage over and now she's not too sure anymore.----

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

Patty wrote: "Every try to find a home for a 9 month old un neutered cat ? You got a better chance of getting hit by lightening"

Boy, that made me laugh -- because it is SO true. I took in a six month old unneutered male kitten because he was in a bad situation. I was sure I could find him a home, especially since I had him neutered (right away). I put up flyers in every vet office in the area and a bunch of other places, like feed stores and pet supplies. I got NOT ONE call even inquiring about him. He did end up with a good home -- he stayed with ME.

This cat also sprayed my house. He was checked medically, but he was fine. I discovered that other cats were parading through my yard and going so far as to spray my house doors (outside). My cat was furious and would spray inside to mark his territory. I solved my problem by keeping him confined outdoors during the day (in the summer, the problem went away in the winter when the roaming cats apparently stayed home). This obviously won't work for Vanessa, for the reasons she stated.

However, Vanessa, IF your cat is not neutered, he MAY change his mind about being afraid of outdoors when "the love bug" bites him and make an escape. Forgive me if I missed it, but I didn't see that you answered whether your cat is spraying or if he is squatting to pee. The first is marking his territory, the second is normal position to pee (though outside the box is not normal). If it's the second, I'd guess a bladder infection or crystals in his urine, in which case he needs to be seen by a vet ASAP.

If it's territorial marking, neutering will make his urine stink less (after the hormones are out of his system) and MAY stop the spraying. The individual cat's personality will have an influence there. You will need to do some detective work and careful observation to discover what is upsetting your cat. Other cats outside, or a disagreement with another indoor cat are possibilities, but other things outside can be causing this response. Anything that makes the cat scared and stressed could trigger this response.

Can you find a vet who would be willing to neuter your cat if you make monthly payments to take care of your bill? Like $20 down, and $10 a month thereafter to pay off the bill? Most vets want their money up front because too many people have stiffed them in the past, but they're also generally sympathetic to the plight of cats and well aware how difficult it is to find homes for all the "used" cats out there. If you have a vet you have used before and have paid your bill promptly in the past, that vet might be more willing to give you some leeway in paying for the neutering. Good luck to you!

If Brad wants to start up a collection, I'd be willing to kick in too. I love cats and wish they could all have homes!

-- Joy F (S.Central Wisc) (CatFlunky@excite.com), November 29, 2001.

no spam: I am out of that county. And I don't have any gas to drive from one end of the state and back if it weren't out of my county.

When I say I don't have any money I don't have any money.

That includes money for traveling expenses. That is why I am looking for someplace close. The Jackson Humane woman told me that she doesn't even know of anywhere around here that is not expensive. She said that it would cost over $100 anywhere because they require for them to have shots too. My cats have been in the house pretty much forever, so they have not had shots.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

Someone mentioned Noah's Arc before? Well if it doesn't quit raining here, I am booking a ticket. We are blocked off from getting the kids to school and getting groceries. My husband may not be able to get home from work and Our area is completely flooded. I live close a river, and the water is rising. All my critters can swim but for the guinea pig and one bird with a heart condition. Guess we can carry them. ~~~^^^~~~

-- Vanessa Hayes (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

It is GT (it's right next to the address), Ms., if it matters (doesn't to me, GT is fine). All I am trying to say is that if your children can live with snakes (and from what I understand they eat live food, yuck), and they know about the terrible neighbors you have (I'd either move or call the police on them), that if the situation were explained to them, they of course would not like the decision, but they might understand it. Children are much more resilient than you think.

And, like I said, maybe they could brainstorm a solution (afterschool job, whatever), depending upon whether the cat was theirs (their idea to have the cat, their responsibility) or yours (which is the sense I got from your earlier post).

The other thing is that (should you decide to put the cat to sleep) you could just say the cat went "to meet his Maker" or whatever is politically correct in your home. You don't necessarily have to say HOW.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 29, 2001.

Joy, I mentioned earlier that I had gone to one vet for years, always paid up front, then when they charged me an incredible amount of money for the snake bite incident, and I asked to pay in half then and the rest weekly, they said no. Threatened to keep the dog and charge me for keeping it. One said they would hold a check for a week, but that won't help right now. I am still asking around, hope I will find one sympathetic vet who cares.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

GT, If I had the $$ to move, I would. I live on my family's land, to save money, not because I like living next to them all. Fibbing what ever you want to call it, I cannot tell a lie especially not to my kids. And I'm not liberal enough to care about being politically correct.That doesn't matter anyway. The only reason I have internet access is because I have to have it for college purposes. If not for that I would not be on here to begin with. I would take that money to pay for kitty fixin. Oh, the snakes are ribbon snakes that are small and only live a few short years, when they die, that's it. They belong to my son. They eat minnows that I get for free from the fish ponds I live close to. They make excellent pets, they don't eat but about 1 time a week, they live in an aquarium, and sleep when they are not eating. These are the babies of a snake my son got for his birthday. The cats belong to my children also they are responsible for feeding them. They can't get outside jobs, because they are too young,{there's this thing called the child labor law.} I do work occasionally, as a database marketing subcontractor, but I have not been able to get any work since October. If work was available right now, I would take the cats to the vet right now.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

I am tired of trying to defend myself from nothing that I have done. Just talking now to those not on soap boxes. ~~~ To the question asked about the cat peeing on things or spraying. He does this mostly while everyone is asleep. I have seen him do it a couple of times. He likes to do it on throw rugs, and the kids' dirty clothes that they leave on the floor when they bath. He also pees on my son's been bag chair for some reason.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

I did not mean a regular afterschool job, but more like an "odd job" that a neighbor (not the ones you're having problems with) could pay your oldest (you said he was almost 11) to do, like raking leaves, or pet feeding/walking/mucking out while someone is on vacation, baby sitting (there are "safe sitting" classes he could take through community education, for example), etc. There are lots of books out there on the subject of children making money doing part-time work. Too informal for the child labor laws to apply. Also, depending on the area, he may or may not be old enough for a paper route (and if it is a driving route instead of a bike route that may not be an option for you).

Still trying to think of other options.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 29, 2001.

My children rake leaves for their great grand parents who only pay a quarter because they went through the depression and all that jazz. They get $1 for a's on report cards from their grandmother, that's it.{lately they haven't gotten any dollars} They have been saving pennies that they give to the Boys and Girls Missionary Crusade once a month..The most saved was $7. That really doesn't make much difference here for a cat, but it buys 3 Bibles for little kids in other countries or buys 2 days food for a child in another country. By the time they saved enough at that rate, the cats would have grandchildren. We live in the boonies, no paper routes beside cars. Still looking for a cheaper vet who doesn't require shots before it gets neutered.(the cat that is){though there is atleast one I would like to neuter){Vets that is}

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

Vanessa,I am in MS about 68 miles from Memphis.It cost $25 for my vet to neuter a cat. Bettie

-- Bettie Ferguson (jobett@dixie-net.com), November 29, 2001.

Betty, That is what I paid about 13 years ago to get a cat neutered, where is this place, my husband drives to Brownsville to work and back 1 hour every day, he might be able to leave the cat at a friends house and then take it after work or something like that.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 29, 2001.

Vanessa, You said that the cat did most of he peeing at night. Have you thought of closing him in a pet carrier at night or maybe the laundry room or a small bathroom? That would be easy to explain to the kids, ( He is in there because he pees on things at night.) They would be sure to understand that,also it would elimenate (sp)the mess!!!!! good luck, Susan

-- Susan, and Emily in Tn (animalcrackers55@hotmail.com), November 29, 2001.

Vanessa, from your description of peeing on dirty clothes and throw rugs he may have some type of urinary infection. We had a male cat several years ago (about 9 months old) that had the equivalent of kidney stones. Really major surgery.Way over $60. We also now have 6 cats. A couple of the males sometimes pee on dirty clothes; especially when their litter box needs cleaning. If your cats share 1 litter box you might want to get a second one and see if that helps. I've just been on this forum for about a month and most of the people seem to be good people but there are always a few asses no matter where you go. Don't give them the privilige of upsetting you. True animal lovers will always come to the surface ( just like cream) and help whenever they can. Good luck!! If I come up with something else I'll let you know. Have you checked with the local Humane Society yet??

-- Lou Ann in KY (homes_cool@msn.com), November 29, 2001.

A vet college might help you. Even colleges with Vet Tech assistant programs work with vets. Sometimes an instructor at the college can help you. A carrier can be made with two plastic laundry baskets tied together, that could keep him in check at night. Keep looking!! You'll find someone!!

-- PJC (zpjc5_@hotmail.com), November 29, 2001.

Did you think of trying to barter with the vet? Maybe you have a talent or an object he might be interested in. Some vets are pretty decent and because of a lack of time for their personal life are open tomswaps of one sort or another. Just a thought. Lotsa luck.

-- Sandra Nelson (Magin@starband.net), November 29, 2001.

"Life is like a septic tank - the really big chunks float to the top". So much for cream.

You go to college - does it have any affiliation with something that has a vet school - or even a veterinary assistant or biology assistant or pathology school?

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), November 29, 2001.

Hi,I live 23 miles north of Tupelo,MS.My vet is in Baldwyn,MS. Bettie

-- Bettie Ferguson (jobett@dixie-net.com), November 29, 2001.

My old cat was peeing in my sons room so at night I lock her in a large dog kennel with a cat box, water, and a bed. Some one I knew built a wire kennel as a out door play area for there cats. Dont feel bad about the posts, when I posted my old cat was down to 4 lbs I got a horrible post saying I should be starved like I was doing to my cat. When I emailed the slime ball to state the cat was under vet care and the problem was finding the right dose of thyroid med the coward hadnt even used a real email!There is a chance that even fixed this cat will still spray. Email me with your address and I will send you a little money to go toward his spaying.Keep calling to find the lowest quote you can find.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), November 29, 2001.

Before I get nasty posts I let my old cat out during the day and only lock her up when I go to bed.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), November 29, 2001.

We have a cat that we have had in the house for 9 years. He used to mark his territory on everything that smelled like my hubby. He even pee'd on hubby's hay hauling chaps. That did not make hubby a happy camper, to say the least! So....we had him fixed! Oh..the cat, not the hubby!:~)! The vet said to keep him confined to the bathroom or small space for 2 weeks until the hormones went away that were causing him to do that.(again, the cat, not the hubby:~D) It worked for us. He hasn't pee'd on anything that I know of since, except for his litter box.(One more time...the cat! snicker snicker)

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 29, 2001.

NO Shannon, no one sent me any money for any of my dogs. Don't name names if you can't remember what happened. WE all pitched in and bought a GP/Anotolian for a young girl in Oklahoma.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), November 30, 2001.

Vanessa, Wow, what a lot of insensitive humans on this site. Obviously, they are pretty well off too. I have been down and broke thru no real fault of my own(left my abusive husband, to save the children). I had a real good friend in Tennessee(Ain't it good to be alive and in Tennessee!!), who would get his cats slightly drunk and band them. They did just fine, no infection, no terrible pain, just had the testicles dry up and fall off. These were not kittens, it is pretty hard to band anything that young. He also would band his bull, after it bred his heifers. He would just walk up and pet it and wrap the big rubber band around the top of the scrotum. He was very good to all his animals too. I hope everything gets better for you. Going to school with young children is a lot of work. And your husband is certainly trying to do all he can too. There is no shame to getting some food stamps at this time. It would really help your budget and if it bothers you to use them at a local grocery, go to a large city and buy in quantity. Good luck to you and your family, remember this is a temproary state and things will get better for all of you. Give my love to the cat too.

-- Karen in Kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), November 30, 2001.

Wow! I don't mean to be insensitive to the problem...I realize that sometimes money is very tight! With us it is something that we have weathered several times. I hope that things start looking up soon! The reason that I am posting again..I am very impressed with anyone that can walk up and band a bull! WWWWOOOOOWWWWW! He is a LOT braver than I am! Does this guy have a squeeze shoot? I just can't imagine! YIKES!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 30, 2001.

Oops! Squeeze chute....shoot might have been a Freudian slip! heehee!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 30, 2001.

Don't know if neutering would stop any of the behavior anyway. It's a habit by now. My neutered tom still sprays when he thinks the other cats are getting undue attention, and my seriously old matron cat (spayed more years ago than I can think of) still does and always has peed on anything left in the floor that didn't look like furniture (keeps you on your housecleaning toes, that one does). No clue why. She'll pee, then jump through the kitty door, so I know that she's not just too old to get out in time. (She still hauls butt all the way up the arbor/bench like a young little thing). Just cantankerous.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Hi, everyone, I have just got on the net to check things out again. Water is up here still, 3 kids home from school + 11 yr. old nephew who's mother died last month. So I have had a pretty full plate today. Will try to answer questions. I go to Bethel College. I don't go to the college on campus, unless I am taking an elective class, which my husband is in the same adult degree program I am and he goes on Saturdays to get done quicker, so I have to lag behind with the kids. I don't believe they offer vet programs. I had environmental science class and got to be friends with the prof. (He has snakes too.)Though his bite very hard because they are very big. He doesn't practice anything medical. I have been looking on the net for a vet college in my area, but can't find anything yet. Yes, some people seem to have never fallen on hard times before. They don't seem to understand. My husband got 2 days off when his younger sister died last month, but the funeral home was packed and he had to take off 2 extra days without pay and pay on the funeral expenses. That really hurt us financially. I don't think some folks understand how hard it is to make it on one person's salary with 3 growing kids, plus an extra child now to help raise, and go to school at the same time. The barter idea would be nice, but most vets I know of would only take cold cash. Besides, the only talents I have are not something a vet would want, I play the piano and sing at small church. I don't get paid for that, just a small Christmas present. The lady from P.U.P.s said I lived too far from them, but she was forwarding my email to try and find some place closer to home. I have checked with the Humane people and they say it will run $100 at least (shots and neutering together)and they do not give coupons or discounts. They say that they don't know of any place but have heard someplace in Memphis, they couldn't give me a name or number. To those who have offered to send money, thanks, I appreciate it. I am still looking in my area to get the best deal. I'm kind of afraid to give out my mailing address, because of the people who might want to send me a nasty little present. I have had some pretty mean people write me.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 30, 2001.

Oh, the cat's name is Jinx. He is orange and white and has long hair and a bushy tail and big round yellow eyes. And huge feet, as big as a dogs almost. His gal pal is Jasmine, she is tiny and black with short hair green eyes and a laid back personality.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), November 30, 2001.

Vanessa, your plate is not just full! You need a truck to carry around all of that! Here is a prayer going up on your behalf! God Bless!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 30, 2001.

Um, if he's acting male, and she's female, your plate could get fuller yet. I'd suggest spaying for her ought to go on the agenda as a matter for urgent consideration as well. Just neutering him might be too late.

Did you look at the city where your husband works and you have friends - do they have any clinics or humane societies or special offers or even cheaper vets? It might be possible for the cats to become temporary residents, thus making them eligible for residential programs.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), November 30, 2001.

Vanessa - if you are concerned about "presents" in the mail, then choose a vet and let folks know where they can send their "donations" and in whose name (or to what account number, if you're too skittish to give out your name). That way, those who want to help can, without exposing your person to danger.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), December 01, 2001.

Hi Vanessa,

I feel so bad for you rith now from having to deal with the "trolls" or folks new on this list who have been highly aggreviating folks and offending them and the usual new group here that sems to be PETA supporters. Now that makes me cringe because they just don't fully realize the scope of what PETA is all about. Now don't get me wrong here, I DO support animal organizations such as resacue groups and the ASPCA for their hard work. PETA is an entirely different ballgame though. And I also cring because this is a homesteading site where folks discuss being self sufficient and raising animals for meat is part of being self sufficient.

Just don't take to heart what the "meanies" or "trolls" say on this site, their opinions are really not considered anyways. I am just so tired of all this cow manure on the site. I read in another thread that if this bull continues we may have to face the forum closing down form their deeds. what a shame too! Thats why I support the "Troll fighters" in their quest to clean up this board.

I also wanted to mention in reference to GT's post about having your children taken away for witnessing the cat getting banded or casturated, Although he/she has a good point albeit, that this is highly unlikely to happen. Makes me wonder about the farmers on this list that slaughter animals for meat and butcher chickens for home use, they have been doing this for yrs and I have yet to hear of a case. I teach so whence I know where i speak from. While I was away from work a few weeks ago one of my teacher's husbands stopped by on opening day of deer hunting, so the male teacher takes the kids out to see this buck that he shot. When i got back i had to reprimand him for this according to our guidelines for a early childhood special ed program. I am a adminstrator so i get to do all that fun stuff! NOT!!!!!!!

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.

OK.... there is a new twist to this discussion, see post on Pets A Modest Proposal. Is it right to eat cats and dogs is the question and the comments are very Pro. The discussion really shows how much folks have changed on this forum since I joined a few yrs ago. Its really disheartening to read all the ridiculous posts and replies to not only this subject but to others as well.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

gee, Bernice how much of the 'ridiculous' posting could be due to hostal responces, that wear down people who try to help? Dark humor goes with hard subjects. Have you ever heard EMT's and ER workers jokes? I read a few on that tread, it's was no worse than I threaten to do, to a diificult to handle animal on any given day.

-- Thumper (slrldr@yahoo.com), December 08, 2001.