The Red Cross, crusaders or crooks? (Social Issues)

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I would like to know what you all out there think of The Red Cross. I have had two husbands both of which have been in the service of thier country. One of them was the recipient of The distinguished Service Cross and other multiple awards. Both times these guys encountered the Red Cross(many years apart)they were offered amenities(doughnuts and coffee just behind the front lines in Korea, and while laying in the hospital in Japan the offering was stationary and pens to write home)after they accepted with thanks they were then told they had to pay for them! Now after just getting off a truck, wounded in Korea and just after surgery, you don't have money in your pockets, and both times the items were taken back. I think this is unacceptable and is a disgrace and to this day don't give funds to the Red Cross. We give blood to our local hospital and donate food etc. locally, and I make quilts etc. for those in need. Am I being too hard on this organization? What do you think? LQ

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), November 22, 2001

Answers

Response to The Red Cross, crusaders or crooks?

While they do provide some useful services (mostly CPR and lifeguard classes), I am unhappy with how much Dr. Healy made as CEO ($450,000 salary and probably (though not sure) all traveling and hotel expenses were paid as well). And if she's making that much, how much are other manager types in that organization (and others) making, which is all overhead and not going to the mission?

Publications like The Journal of Philanthropy are always whining about how these CEOs don't make enough compared to their "for profit" counterparts. Too bad. For many, the fact that they don't stay in these high profile jobs very long is an indication that they're just in it for the "ticket punch" on the way to something more lucrative down the road.

I have always felt that part of the disclosures to the public need to be: 1. How many people are you paying? and 2. Exactly how much are you paying them?

I know some people will say that salaries are not someone else's business, but when you are benefitting as a tax-exempt organization, you're not private because you're benefitting from the largesse of the taxpayers, some of whom may or may not even agree with your philosophy (for example Right to Life vs. Planned Parenthood) and have no choice in the matter. Also, without these types of more truthful disclosures, how does a potential donor evaluate the effectiveness of this organization vs. that one?

I am not saying that all charitable organizations have to run on volunteers, but I think that instead of salaries, for example, in many cases if someone works as a volunteer for so many hours per month their out of pocket expenses (mileage, supplies) could be paid and perhaps they could be covered under a health plan at the organization's expense, so basically you would be paying a small stipend, but not have all of the other costs associated with employees. There are a lot of people who could benefit from this kind of arrangement.

Just a thought, and I am glad they reversed their decision on the Liberty Fund, for their sake as an organization.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 22, 2001.


Response to The Red Cross, crusaders or crooks?

I gave to the ARC and then I felt so lousy that my contribution to the CEO's paltry $9000/week salary was so little. If I only knew....

-- Glenn (gj_usa1@yahoo.com), November 22, 2001.

Response to The Red Cross, crusaders or crooks?

There are plenty of articles coming out now about how the majority of the money donated to Red Cross specifically for the WTC attack victims is being diverted to other Red Cross "costs" and programs. If anyone is interested I can send them a link or two.

-- gita (gschmitz@directcon.net), November 22, 2001.

Response to The Red Cross, crusaders or crooks?

Being a Korean veteran and also a Vietnam Veteran I am sorry to say that I have to agree with your two husbands...especially if you were a enlisted person..Officers faired out quite better ..Thanks

-- Robert Smith (snuffy@1st.net), November 22, 2001.

Response to The Red Cross, crusaders or crooks?

A few years ago, during the terrible midwestern flooding, a friend of mine wanted to send some money to a relative who had lost everything in the flooding. She had heard that she could send money through the Red Cross. She contacted them, and they told her they most certainly could get the money to her relative. She gave them her credit card number, and authorized $500.00, which she believed would be going to the relative. The relative received only $200.00! My friend was later told that that the Red Cross was authorized to keep the rest as a donation! My friend had authorized no such thing, but she never got the money back.

Now, I agree that the Red Cross does do a lot of good work - but their methods are rather suspect.

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), November 22, 2001.



Response to The Red Cross, crusaders or crooks?

Cheryl, I'm sure it's too late now but that's the kind of thing I would dispute on my credit card bill.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), November 22, 2001.

I don't know that much about the Red Cross except the fact that the organization seems to have become more like a corporation than a charity. I believe that charity begins at home and if I want to give, I find a local charity to give to. Remember the United Way scandal a year or so ago? Well I give to my local UW which distributes the money to the local area, but still has to give 5% (I believe) to the National organization. But the local charity at least gives most of the money they collect out to those I intended. On the card, I specify which local organization I want to receive my gift. I still believe church run charities are a decent way to give too. Not those of the Jim and TammyFaye Baker fame, but your local church which may have a food closet, or a child care program. Better yet, when you know of a family which has been struck by disaster, why not give directly to them? I don't give just to get a tax write off and I am sure that many others don't either. I am suspicious of national charities like the Red Cross (can you believe that they would have rather given back the donations rather than give them to the Sept. 11 disaster victims families? - then caved on the issue and decided to do what was right and what they should have done all along!) My thought is: if you collect money for a cause, the money should go to that cause. I know that organizations have some expenses, and must keep some money for operating expenses. But they aren't supposed to make a profit!

OK I through ranting now - this issue has always bothered me as I know so many good folks give to what they think are reputable charities only to find out differently later on.

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), November 23, 2001.


It's a shame that it is so but most charities are pretty much a ripoff. usally only doing about 20 percent good while siphoning off 80 percent of donations as administrative fees. Blood donation is a major scam. We are never told that 80 percent of our donated blood goes to the biotech industry. they buy the blood at hundred of dollars a pint and process it into chemotherapy drugs and globulin products then tack on their profit. When the red cross sends out a call for more blood donors it is usually because they can't meet comitment to service both private industry and hospitals both. Since the income from private industry provides guaranteed steady income that need is serviced despite the conditions of the local market. But then again those who most need red cross assistance are not really held in great esteem by the sort of people who are chosen to run the red cross.

-- Ed (smikula@bellsouth.net), November 23, 2001.

For several years we used to donate to the United Way directly from hubby's paycheck until there was this big scandal and we found out how much the guy running the local chapter was making. I forget the amount but it was an outragously huge amount.

Then for about 5 years I helped run a non-profit organization helping stray/abandoned/unwanted dogs. None of the people running our organization got paid - it was entirely run by volunteers.

Now whenever I donate I always look at how much money goes towards administrative expenses. Right now organizations I donate to include: The Alopecia Foundation (both my son and I have this disease) The Juvinele Diabetes Foundation (my hubby has diabetes) The Arthritus Foundation (I have Rheumatoid Arthritus) heifer.org ( I like this idea of this organization and that it not only helps one individual but that that individual has to help someone else and so on). Samaritians Purse Christmas Shoe Box Project (we always have fun buying gifts for other children and its something my kids can join in doing and comprehend) Donate food to local food banks and shelters etc...

-- Anita in NC (aholton@mindspring.com), November 23, 2001.


While I don't doubt for a minute all the stories that have happened to all of you, we had a good experience with the Red Cross. Maybe if you're dealing with the local chapters it is easier than sending funds far away... I don't know. But when our house burned down in 1998 and we lost everything, the Red Cross was there within the hour, they gave us clothing to wear, and vouchers for clothing and food, as well as car seats. They were very he

-- Toni Rakestraw (dabblmom@aol.com), November 23, 2001.


We've always been pretty picky about who is getting a donation from us. I had requested info from ARC, as to how the money is used. Well, to make a story short they never sent me the info so we didn't donate. Now I'm very thankful we didn't. Think about it folks they received something like 1.6 million( maybe it was Billion) if they divert those funds as stall tactics they will earn the interest on that money. Money that was graciously given for those families of lost loved ones and ARC keeps it to make some money for themselve meanwhile families are lossing their homes, cars, no food etc... To me that is the lowest possible lifeform in our land, those who take from those in NEED to make $$ for themselves. I hope that all Americans will stand firm against them and donate to worthy causes( the ones that are run by volunteers).

-- Kelle in MT (kvent1729@aol.com), November 23, 2001.

My father was charged for his coffee and donut in Korea 1951 and my best friends father was charged also at the same time in Germany. I've had people tell me of receiving what looked like bills from the Red Cross for aid given to relatives. I will never give to the Red Cross I prefer the Salvation Army, they don't charge for services.

-- Del (dgrinolds@gvtel.com), November 23, 2001.

I too was very bothered to learn that the CEO of the ARC made 450,000 per year. I am even more bothered by the fact that alot of this money was given to the Red Cross by hard working Americans, who may not ever earn any more than $25,000 per year. Matter of fact, it sickens me to think about it.

I once worked in a factory where there was an annual fundraising drive put on by the United Way and the ARC. Starting wage there was 6.60 per hour, and capped out at 12.50/hour after about ten years. I am still astounded to this day how pushy the UW and ARC reps would be in their pitch to each person. They would start with telling you how much the biggest donors gave per week, which was always by upper management. Then they would tell you how great their organization was, and how much they did for the needy, etc. Then they would ask the supervisor (who was standing there browbeating you) what your senority date was, which in essence is how much you make, and then they would ask for a small donation of $20 per week!!!!! That is over four weeks pay, added up in a year's time!!!!! When you said no, they would say some awful bad things, in order to make you feel guilty for not giving. I could go on and on, but NEVER WILL I GIVE TO EITHER OF THE ABOVE GROUPS!!!!!

-- clovis (clovis97@Yahoo.com), November 23, 2001.


During WWII my uncle and other troops were riding on a train through England. When they stopped somewhere along the way the Red Cross was there with coffee for all. Not only was the coffee not free they had to buy a coupon book for 12 cups at $.10 each and it was only good while they were in England. To the day he died he had NO USE for the Red Cross.

-- Anna in Iowa (countryanna54@hotmail.com), November 23, 2001.

You are all echoing what my uncle told me about WWII. The Red Cross offered donuts to the guys on the front lines and charged them for it. Well, there's no change in the pockets of those guys.

I don't donate to any of the large organizations, since most handle their monies like the Red Cross. (The Board Members of PETA and HSUS live in million dollar homes and give themselves 6 figure salaries.)

I much prefer putting dollars or goods in the direct hands of someone in need, or offering help in other ways.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), November 25, 2001.



Let's not get too upset at what the executives of these huge charity organisations pay themselves. If I had whatever it takes to run a multi-squillion dollar operation I would expect to be paid the going rate, after all if someone like me can only spare $20 for the starving in Sudan,Ethiopia,Iran,Iraq,Afghanistan,Pakistan.......etc why should I expect those executives to give hundreds of thousand of dollars?

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), November 25, 2001.

As a Red Cross worker it has come up many times about the coffee and donuts and this is what I was told by a Regional Director who was also a nurse in WW II.

Each country has their own Red Cross units and because these incidents (coffee & donuts) happened in other countries eventhough the workers were americans they had to abide by the rules set up in the country they were working in. So if in lets say Korea they were charging 23 cents for coffee and donuts then that was what the volunteer had to collect. I am not saying I agree with the policy as I think they should have provided these services for free I guess that it is "when in Rome, do as the Roman's do" policy. Things along those lines have changed since but it doesn't make it right for what went on before.

As far ar the salary that Dr. Healy got I agree when someone has as much responsibility as she did then some kind of salary was warrented but I too feel it was way to much. When Mrs. Dole was CEO she donated 75% of her salary back to Red Cross. I am not sure if Dr. Healy has done that or not. This has been a common practice for many years. I am a volunteer Chapter Manager one of the few volunteer mangers left and I intend for it to stay just that "volunteer" you know we all need to give back for our place here on earth, yes, we need to take at times but then we need to give back when we can.

Hope this will at least clear the donut thing up I know it won't change what has happened but maybe it will at least change your mind a little towards Red Cross. Sally

-- (mallardhen67@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.


Managers at any level are a dime a dozen, and with the economy the way it is there must be many people around who could manage these organizations and do it as well or better for less money. Also, remember that at the CEO level these (charity jobs) are figurehead (not much to do, but great to put on a resume) jobs, and the real work is always done at the lower levels (like where Sally is talking about).

The Red Cross will have to do a major housecleaning at the top before we donate to it again.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 26, 2001.


My husband's people lived thru the 28 hurricane in PB County FL. The Red Cross came through and got the the merchants to turn over all the "rebuilding" supplies, so they could be shared out "fairly", and then to get any, you had to be "vouched for" by the powers - that- be... my FIL had no time or respect for the ARC. And my stepdad was an aviator in Korea, and h didn't either.

-- Mitzi Giles (Egiles2@prodigy.net), November 26, 2001.

I don't know too much about the Red Cross, except that in a big scale emergency, I know they'd be there....However, I do remember Libby Dole resigning right before Y2k, and now there's another resignation...sure sounds like a political prize (Banishment?!LOL)

Local food banks and churches (as well as synogogues, mosques, temples, etc) are usually good places to donate. Because they are so local, they have to be pretty accountable (easy to see what's going on, etc.) Our regional (Puget Sound) food banks are really in need, what with all the Boeing layoffs, companies going bankrupt, etc.

If you don't have a local charity that your community can depend on, start one.... :-)

-- sheepish (WA) (the_original_sheepish@Hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.


Sheepish,

It can be awfully difficult to find out where money goes in a charity, hence my first posting in this thread, and who gets paid, even with places like churches. I'm willing to bet a lot of people don't know how much their pastor makes, for example--they don't open the books just because you ask nicely. And many places are full of people who don't take kindly to people asking questions, even when they do so politely. Just my observation.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 27, 2001.


GT, good point. Still, I would probably feel better about making a local contribution so I could perhaps see a result, rather than sending money to a charity far away.

I think pastors would be embarrassed if people knew just how little they get paid! ;-)

-- sheepish (WA) (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.


I agree with you, Sheepish, about many pastors being underpaid. But one also must consider compensation packages (housing, health care, food) that go above salary. A mere $10,000 per year salary goes quite a ways when all of your other basic needs are taken care of--in fact, if you're single and put some of it into a retirement plan, you probably are not paying taxes on that salary.

I look at the pastor's (church property) house on 7th Heaven (TV show), for example, and that is a nice house, by any standards. The youngest child has a room full of Hello Kitty! toys. They are living quite well, actually. A lot nicer than than they should be considering how often churches exhort us to care for the poor (one should set an example). As much money as possible should go to the mission of the church, not to admin expenses.

I do think the fully local charities are the way to go, or maybe just stick to food donations/blood donations, which hopefully you can't fool around much with. Although, in the spirit of solutions, I think it is helpful to point out waste, fraud, and abuse when you see it. Shifting donations to where they will be used properly is a very viable solution as well.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 27, 2001.


I get the impression that the Red Cross can vary from country to country. They run the blood-donation service here, and I'm a long- term donor - approaching 70 donations. Happens I needed blood recently - a health crisis which meant I needed 4 units of blood. It was there. If I'd been pushed I could have called on family and they would have provided, but because the Red Cross was there I didn't need to do that, just as over the past years the Red Cross has provided my blood to others.

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), November 27, 2001.

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