Help! Buy where we are now?

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Ok all you wise people, I need some opinions...and I know you've got 'em! : )

We have a lot (2 acres) that will soon be in our names, a gift from my parents, two hours away, where I grew up. Beautiful northern Ontario bush. Future plans with family to start a maple syrup operation on the two quarter sections (our land part of), but none of us want to incur new debt right now, so it's on hold. So...we've been renting a house two hours from there, for the last 2 years, in a small, dying farming town, pop. 3000. Why? Because my husband's cabinet making job is here. We can find no job for him in his field closer to our lot. I'm tired of renting, and throwing our money away. There are houses for sale here, anywhere from 25,000 Cdn., and up. There are houses with acreage outside of town fairly cheap. My husband is the sole employee working with his boss, so it's a small business. There are no other possible job propects in town. The next closest town is 15 mins. away, pop. 5,000, and relies solely on a paper mill for it's employment base. Our "lot area" relies, for the most part, on a steel plant that is tumbling into bankruptcy, pop. 80,000. Closest sizable town to us is 120,000 pop., subject to the ups and downs of nickel mining, and VERY far away in the winter snow when driving (1 hr in summer).

With all this in mind, should we risk buying a house here? Chances for resale are soooooo slim. A lot of people here work at the paper mill in the next town. If my husband lost his job, the commute would probably kill him...an hour in the summer could translate to hours in the winter, and sometimes stranded at work or home. On the flip side, we've been here two years, and so far we haven't been able to save to start building on our lot. He'd have to stay down here weekdays if he was to keep his job once we built on the lot. Or else we'd all have to go into mega debt to start the syrup business. Job opps in the lot area are very grim, and have been since '83. I can't get a job here, there are none. Besides, we'd have to get a second car, and a sitter (kids 3 and 6). So, if you can understand this, what would you do? All opinions appreciated.

-- Rheba (rhebabeall@hotmail.com), October 03, 2001

Answers

Maybe you could put a trailer on the property (save on building) and maybe your husband can build furniture. People always need furniture. You could sell it on the net. Just an idea. Doesn't sound like you're happy where you are and sometimes being safe is just exsisting.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), October 03, 2001.

Rheba, If I was you I would continue paying rent and staying close to your husband's job. The land that your parents are giving you will alway be there in the future, if your present situation improves. You could use it as a weekend camping area during the mild weather. Maybe over the years you can slap together a small cabin on it. Later, you can add more things to it. No hurry. You and your family are in a good position now and should not be in a rush to make such drastic chances just because you will be getting some land in the country. Like I said, "It will always be there for you in the future." Sincerely, Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), October 03, 2001.

If the town where your husband is slowly dying, how long do you think his job will survive. You already said there were no jobs for you, could he find another job if his job dissapered. In a small company where there is only a owner and a worker or two most of the time the company is only a heart beat from closing. I really don't think you should be buying a home or anything at this time. Mabey you should look further into the syrup buisness, I don't know anything about it and any new buisness has some risk at anytime and right now the world economy is really shakey. Here in The US we are having some really trying times and don't really know what the next few months will bring. Set still and keep renting for a few months and then look at the situation. Best of luck to you.

-- David (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), October 03, 2001.

Rheba, maybe you can make up some crafts[ knit, ornaments ect] and sell them ? or babysit kids ? then you can build savings and then decide.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), October 03, 2001.

Hi Rheba, First off, start putting a little in a jar every pay day for your future business. Even 5$ every time will get you in the habbit and will build up. A couple of ideas. If you are going to rent and visit the land to get it ready eventually, why not see what is available in a larger town? Maybe he could get better pay for a few years and pay off a small cabin or make a nest egg for the business startups.? Some people can make it work and have strict savings plans. Other side, I personally think the city will eat up your money when you live there. If your not careful, it dosn't matter how much you make, you will always just get by. I have a relative with a HUGE income, and they skimp on things because they have so many monthly payments. You could move to your lot and go into business for yourselves, but you would have to be determined to go through some rough times. What if your husband managed to talk to his boss and work four long days, and you spent the rest of the time at your lot getting it ready and setting it up? Split up the week? He would still have to rent a place for the days he worked, unless he knew a friend or relative that would let him crash for the half week at their place. Why not sit down and make a list of the things you could do right away to supplement your income. Can he make little extra wall hangings, cute country puzzles?, anything that will sell at a craft fair? You could just vow to put any money made at extra activities twards your lot and then do a couple of flea markets or craft fairs a month. You could make something yourself, and sell them at the same table. The kids can help you make things. Have a fall garage sale. (Make crafts to sell if you don't have lots of things) jewlery? Make a trip to a big town and sell at their shows. They get lots of visitors to craft fairs in the city. Can you put together some Christmas items? and sell by word of mouth? Don't feel bad asking your friends to buy, just keep in mind it is for your future. Can you put a display at the local grocery store? Can you make little wooden flag things? Like a plaque for the office desk, etc. :o) I don't know what you have available, but just keep trying!

-- notnow (notnow05@yahoo.com), October 03, 2001.


Don't think in terms of what something is worth to someone else, think in terms of what something is worth to you. Yes resale values may be slim, but that means you're buying in a buyers market where there is less risk. If a $25,000 house will resale for only $20,000 in five years, so be it. You've lived in the house for five years and if you so choose can live there as long as you wish. Resale values only matter if you plan on selling the house.

"Future plans with family" to start any type of business is a bad idea for even the strongest of families. Just my opinion.

-- Dawg (Dawg@not.com), October 04, 2001.


How about renting that little plot of land out to hunters, campers and other nature dilatentes as a campground (unimproved, at first, then with a cabin or tent site as you make cash).

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), October 04, 2001.

Maybe you should concider taking a part time job in the evening when hubby is home to watch the kids.Waitressing get the most money in the shortest hours .Nursing homes usually pay well and have a night shift also.Has hubby thought of starting to get the machinery to start his own cabinet buisness ?

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), October 04, 2001.

If I were in your shoes, I would stay where you are and try to set aside some money to start building a home of some sort on your land, even towards buying a used mobile home as someone else suggested or building a small liveable cabin. Given the facts as you describe, you sound like employment is a very untenable situation at best. Use the job now to help you save up for the future. I would also get started on what you will need to run a maple sugaring operation, i.e. learn how to do it and buy the equipment at bargains as you come across them. If the economy goes south and you have trouble finding employment for hubby or yourself, you will be glad that you have a piece of land that you own outright with some kind of living quarters on it to go to. Then you may be able to scrape by with your minimal expenses by selling the maple sugar and your hubby working for himself to do cabinetry or carpentry if necessary. I would look at this as insurance because you seem to have a pretty shaky situation as it exists now and you don't know what the future brings. Then keep your eyes open for job opportunities close to your land and something might pop up just when you finish on the living quarters.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), October 04, 2001.

One of the biggest reasons to buy a home is to participate in real estate appreciation for a gain at time of resale. From what you write, it seems that's not the case there. Market values, if moving at all, may well be in decline.

Another reason to buy is to fix your housing costs rather than be subject to rent increases. Again, if rents are moving at all in your area, it might well be downward. I think buying in that market would be a terrible move given what you've written about it.

If I were you, I'd be suggesting my income producing spouse learn all he can about his employer's customers, suppliers, pricing and business in general. With it being a sole proprietorship, he may well be in a position to either take it over when the owner retires or passes OR may want to open up his own shop someday. While I have a bias toward having my own business, I know it's not for everyone. It is, however, always a good idea to learn as much as you can. I hope this helps.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), October 04, 2001.



Add up what your commute costs would be, car, insurance, repair (not to mention figure out how close the nearest repair facility is), financing, etc. Then calculate the cost of your time, using your hourly wage, and multiply that times the commute.

Many people are astounded by the fact that they are spending more in commute costs than they do on their mortgage. Not to mention that any increase in gas costs or emissions controls will cause those expenses to rise accordingly.

It is great to be out in the middle of nowhere unless you have to go somewhere else on a regular basis and your vehicle breaks down.

Just something to think about.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), October 04, 2001.


Thank you to all of you for your thoughts. Our plan was to save enough to put in the well and septic system on the lot next summer, continue renting here, continue saving towards building materials, and keep my husband at his job. We'd had no debt til August when we drove halfway across Canada to my husband's sister's wedding. I'd planned it all out, saved the money, had the credit card "in case"...and then the transmission blew halfway there. Needless to say, these extra complications incurred a debt of the same amount we were expecting to save for well and septic. ARGHHH! Life happens I guess... My husband has slowly been purchasing his woodworking equipment cash, and is attempting to make furniture after hours. His goal is his own business. His job situation isn't very unstable, as the market for their furniture is custom, and in Toronto, and New York. As for getting a job, I'd love to. But often my husband must be out of town installing cabinets, etc. No family close to help with kids, so it makes getting an evening job difficult. I guess I'm just getting tired of living in other peoples "holdings", not quite tailor made for us. It just seems as though we'll never get to build on our lot...maybe I need to learn more patience. Thanks again, all. I knew you'd come through.

-- Rheba (rhebabeall@hotmail.com), October 04, 2001.

Hi! I'm a little new on the internet: I have been browsing a great deal, learning how to make it go. May I tell you about two small businesses I watched grow?

A local lady made good pies - VERY good pies! She started selling them at FARMERS MARKETS! Leftover pies were eaten, sold out of her house to regular customers, or given away to friends & neighbors. She kept an ornamental plate full of her business cards on her table at the farmers market to promote sales during the week. She called the local paper to try and promote the local paper with pictures to be printed for those slow news days, or for a little local color to balance the national news. She entered every pie contest in the area. She encouraged the city to supply enough money to run a few ads, saying that the market projected a positive image for the city. The farmers market is still small, but she sold $11,000 worth of pies last summer, which convinced a bank to loan her money so she can open a shop. The Pie Lady pie shop, I think it will be called: it opens in a couple of weeks in Lenexa, Kansas. I'm not sure, but I think it took her four years from the time she started selling in the farmers market.

The other business started while the owners still both had full time jobs. They started with one greenhouse, and a lot of helpers. The helpers were paid in either cash or plants, their choice. They had a hand-drawn map in their local paper for 4 months before the greenhouse opened, along with the projected opening date. At the end of the first year, they paid off the greenhouse. At the end of the second year, the lady was able to quit her job, which was good, because she was exhausted, their children had gone from loving working in the greenhouse and getting paid for it to refusing to work in it unless their parents asked REALLY nicely,and most of her friends had gone on to newer, more exciting prospects. At the end of the third year, she told her husband that if they got a second greenhouse he could quit his job too. They now have 3 greenhouses, all hired staff, and have stuff trucked in in the spring because they can't raise everything.

Oh, I forgot to say, the reason they had so MANY customers was because they advertized 10 cent tomato and marigold seedlings in the paper from the time the add started running, and those are two of the most popular garden plants down here in Kansas. Those who came for the cheap plants usually took home a couple of other plants as well. They underestimated the demand for the other seedlings, so they really had to scramble to get more planted, but that was OK because those people who didn't want to drive all the way into town to get the other plants for their garden took the new seedlings when they were just 2 inches tall, and they were glad to be spared the trip! The last I saw, they still had inexpensive marigolds and tomatos, but they are now charging 15 cents each American.

I don't know what the laws are in Canada, but can you make weekend trips to tap the trees? Are you allowed to sell at farmers markets without government inspection? Can you sell it out of your house by putting a sign in your front yard or by posting a notice at your local grocery store? Can you trim up a few evergreens on your 2 acre lot & sell them to a local store, so they can have fresh cut trees of higher quality than shipped in and slightly cheaper? Not MUCH cheaper, of course, it is good to keep local money local-better for the people who live there and better for the shopkeepers who want the local people to shop locally. In fact the storekeepers around farmers markets often say business is better when the market is open, people are there with money in their hands so they stop in and buy light bulbs, or whatever so they don't have to make a separate trip.

Since it sounds like you both want to be self employed, I hope this has been interesting, I have made a little money at the farmers market, but that isn't a living yet, so I am always keenly interested in watching small businesses become profitable.

-- terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), November 15, 2001.


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