Cattle and Horse Ranch

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I am looking for a way to start a Cattle and Horse ranch in N.E. Oklahoma. I have been met with no luck!! The Government will not give loans to beginner farmers unless you have 3 years working a farm. How is one suppose to get a loan if they don’t have 3 years on a farm or one who has been working a farm? So I am asking you can any one help? I am open to even having an investor or partner in the business. I have found the place and everything I need. I just need the help. I really want my sons to have the same kind of life I had when I was a boy and to make one persons dream come true.

thanks Cody

-- Cody (crozene@bama.com), September 18, 2001

Answers

Cody, neither gamblers nor loan givers will place money on anything that has no track record. With no currant farm experience you need to change your approach to owning a farm. Such as finding a person with a farm near retirement age that is willing to slowly shift control to you; such as owner financing or partner buy out.

With this kind of arangement you would gain working knowledge, your kids would experience farm life, after 3 years or so the bankers would see that you are serious and become a bounch more coperative, your equity would be proof. ect.

The percentage of people that try to leap into the winners circle is extremely low compared to those that craw and claw and fight their way in.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), September 18, 2001.


Cody,

See if your state has a beginning farmer program. Iowa does and so do many other states. It is hard to get information about - but try the FSA office, the extension office,or your state's ag department.

-- beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), September 18, 2001.


You need to work on the kind of ranch you want to own for several years before seeking to try to own one. You will need the experience to make a go of the place, and the banks want to see the experience before they will loan money to you. If in fact they *will* loan money for any kind of farming enterprise at all, they seem very reluctant to do so in most circumstances.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 18, 2001.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but, there is a slim to none chance you will actually make money beyond expenses on a cattle and horse farm. We have been farmers, and horse people, for 15 years now, and we have yet to show enough profit to pay much tax on, the off the farm job pays for most everything.

Don't quit your day job yet, but count on your farm at helping to cut your tax burden by providing loss income and depreciation, as well as allowing you to enjoy the rural way of life.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), September 18, 2001.


My guess is to get into the business in any large way you are looking at an initial investment of at least $1 million.

Most of the guys I know in the cattle business in Tennessee are either getting out or scaling back. I plan to scale back my herd in about two weeks to about one-fourth of the number I have been running. I can keep these on some acreage around the house and then rent out the large pasture/hay fields for row crops. By cutting my numbers back by three-quarters I figure I can reduce my expenses by about 90 percent.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), September 18, 2001.



Investigate the different cattle operations. Some make more money than others. I know of some people who have cattle year round and just do a mediocre amount of money. Yet I know some who raise only steers, buy in the early spring and sell in late fall or the next fall and seem to do have a good income off of it.

As far as horses go, I've heard a lot of people say that they are more of a hobby, and it takes a lot of money to keep horses. I don't know how true that is, but it shore seems their are a lot of hobby farmers in my area. Just about every other field around here has horses in it. And what gets me is that I never see anybody riding them.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), September 18, 2001.


My guess is, that around here, most families have at least one, and sometimes two, full-time outside jobs, so they can afford to ranch. Do you actually know someone who is getting by just ranching, who is making payments on land, livestock, and equipment?

-- paul (primrose@centex.net), September 18, 2001.

Cody, why not work into it a bit slower? Move to the country with a small place with just a few acres, then when you can qualify for a loan, get the place you want. In the meantime, your kids will be able to have a couple of horses and some other animals, and they will think that's great. They don't need a working ranch to live on to enjoy the animals, which is pretty much what you want for them, isn't it? Good luck. Sounds like your kids have a great Dad to want that enough for them to try and get it. :)

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), September 18, 2001.

It's a shame you don't have those folks around who gave you such a neat childhood. They could certainly guide you.

There is a show hog ranch near me. The man is a 4th generation hog rancher. He and his wife have 2 sons. When each boy married, they built homes on the family property. They, their wives and their little kids all work the ranch. The kids gain responsibility as they age. They also raise cattle. No one has ever worked in the city; no outside jobs. The homes are paid for. They live a more than comfortable life. It helps to have it in the genes! :^)

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), September 19, 2001.


Cody,

If you want to start out with horses there are three ways to initially start and make money.

1. Buy a stallion and begin breeding outside mares. While you collect the mares you want.

2. Buy already breed mares or mares with foals at there sides and sell the foals and rebreed.

3. Board horses it is very lucrative and is one of the easiest ways to make money off horses.

Now if you want to buy a stallion or mares the first thing you will need to look at is what breeds are in demand or will be in demand. Quarter horses and Morgan’s are still real popular however Arabians, Paints and Pintos prices have really dropped and many people I know are having problems selling their foals. The next thing that you need to look at is the horse’s registration papers. When people buy a foal they look a lot at what the breeding is behind the foal. Try to buy mares or a stallion with registration papers with at least one famous sire or dam on them (within 3 to 4 generations). Another thing to consider is maybe buying old mares with really good papers maybe you will only get one, two or three foals out of them but if you keep their fillies you will have a nice start up heard of young stock. Also by the time the mare is old she knows a lot and will probably teach you a thing or two.

If you would like to start out boarding there are lots of web pages with information on it. Make sure to check the state policies so you are protected if you get a bad boarder.

Whatever you do DON’T put a lot of money into your horse setup right away. Wait at least 5 years make sure they are making you money not costing you it. There is no guarantee that you will make money or even need fancy facilities. I know a guy up here that runs a registered quarter horse stud and 10 mares on open pasture with no shelter and no supplement feeding until the winter (he hays their pasture so it doesn’t cost him anything but time). He pasture breeds (you just lead your mare into the pasture and turn her lose and leave the stud does the rest) and charges only $150 per registered mare ($50 for unregistered mares) he gets about 50 outside mares a year in that makes him $5000 just on breeding fees and at the least makes $5000 off his foal crop which makes him a total of $10,000 (estimating low) that is real nice for a backyard breeder who puts hardly anything into the horses. This is just his hobby he raises up steer calves for a living.

-- Montana Storm (mtstorm@usa.net), September 19, 2001.



I would like to say thanks for all the replys. I really am looking for a small place to grow over time. I guess working with the Goverment is out of the question.. However I will keep on the look out for someplace and hopefully one day I will have it. Thanks for your comments.

Cody

-- cody (crozene@bama.com), September 19, 2001.


Pasture breeding is not for everyone. I would never take a mare where this is done. I wouldn't like my mares coming home bloody! I used my Mammoth jack (still do) for trail riding, parades, etc. I couldn't do that if he was all beat up from pasture breeding the mares. He and my mares were too costly to take the chance.

Years ago, a friend took her mare to a breeder who pasture bred. The mare got 3 broken ribs.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), September 20, 2001.


cody,have you thought about leasing a place with option to buy? This would give you time to build up to purchase. If it didn't work out you would not be financially drained. Also you would be able to find out if this is what you were meant to do. When you work for yourself, you must be the one to motivate yourself, set your chores and goals and get the job done. We have never had a lot of money but have been able to make a living at beef cattle. I like the freedom that I have running my own place. providing for myself and family.I answer to No- one [on this farm, at least] our cattle are not out to take over the farm, [maybe I had better look in to that, heard there was a meeting in the back pasture] Life Is Good! Lexi

-- Lexi Green (whitestone11@hotmail.com), September 20, 2001.

Cody, I would like to know how much experience you have with horses? There are ways to make money with them and breeding and boarding are two. However, you need to have liability insurance in place for both. Other ways are to buy and break/train horses and resell them. I have made quite a bit of money this way.

If you are not knowledgeable about breaking and training, you can go to the horse sales (we have quite a few here in Oklahoma) and buy the thin, underfed horses. Try your best to discern if they look healthy, just underfed. There is a good selection this year, since we had so little rain and many people ran out of pasture.

Buy the bigger framed, (bigger boned, taller) horses that are thin. Then if you have the pasture and can feed grain, do that. You can buy horses now for about $400 each at the sales that are thin (more or less). Fatten them up and return them to the sales and resell. You can make a good profit this way. Only realize, most of these horses may go to the dog food buyers. Anyway, at least you have given them a few months of good feed and a good life before they just starve to death.

-- Shauna Rowan (shamelesscowgirl2001@yahoo.com), September 21, 2001.


I paid my fall hay bills for a number of years with auction ring horses. You DO have to know what you are looking at but it can be done.

I had a top quality warmblood (jumping and dressage horses) stallion, bought Thoroughbred mares in March and April when the race horse breeders sent their older mares they hadn't got bred through the ring and I usually got them for $25 more than the killer buyers would pay, around $500 to $700 per mare. I did some "vet work", turned them out on green grass for 60 days and bred them to my warmblood ... got about 75% of them in foal and then sold them privately in foal to the warmblood stallion ... could get between $1500 to $2500 per mare. The ones that I didn't get in foal went back to the sale ring, sometimes I lost a little, sometimes I didn't ... but the others made up for it.

A lady here in Kentucky does well buying ponies out of the sale ring. She has very talented children that ride and show. The 4H and Pony Club and "backyard" type ponies she usually gets sold in 60 days or less and makes a little profit. The ones she looks for ... and finds maybe 2 or 3 times a year ... are the ones that turn out to be outstanding pony hunter show ponies ... that can be shown for a year on the local circuits and then sold on. These are the ones that are extremely profitable ... may bring $5000 to $10,000 or more.

If you are extremely knowledgeable and have the background and ability to find a niche like one of these, you can do it ... and it doesn't take a lot of land. I think the pony person has less than 10 acres ... but lives in an area where there is access to many shows of this type ... I did fine with 8 acres plus another 20 acres of leased summer pasture with the Thoroughbred mares.

-- SFM in Kentucky (timberln@hyperaction.net), September 21, 2001.



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