Apology to "Honest" car salesmen

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I would like to take this time to apologize to any honest car salesman that I might have offended in a recent forum. I made the comment that car salesmans were liars and about hidden clauses that could spell disaster for you. Well I apologize. Maybe there is some honest salesmans out there somewhere who's interest is to put you in the right vehicle with a fair deal.

But after being burned a couple of times and listening to other people and their horror stories I've made the decision to never ever buy from a car dealer again. I, like a lot of other people only buy another vehicle once every three to six years which is not often enough to know what tricks the salesman use.

After responding to a previous forum I had a car salesman contact me personally through e-mail and tell me that I was responsible for my own decision when I signed the papers. Well when they start passing 50 different papers to you to start signing for this one vehicle it gets to the point that you don't even know what you are signing or even know what the *#@% the paper even said. If you ask the salesman about it he will give you an answer that you still don't understand and your not even sure if he was telling the truth of just what the paper did state! And I think the dealers know that the majority of the people are just like me (car shop only once every 3-6 years and know that we have no ideal of what we are signing.

I apologize only to the honest salesmans. If you or your outfit is not honest that this apology is not for you.

-- R.H. (rhays@sstelco.com), August 30, 2001

Answers

Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

i'd like to apologize to honest real estate salesmen. do ya know how to tell if a salesman is lying to you?

-- fred in wi (sixuvusmeyers@aol.com), August 30, 2001.

Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

his lips are moving !!!!!!!

-- fred in wi (sixuvusmeyers@aol.com), August 30, 2001.

Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

What is it about the auto/vehicle sales profession which causes such a high turnover? The dealers in Nashville are always advertising for sales people. They guarantee $2,500 during the training period and say $48,000-$68,000 in base plus commission (plus fringe benefits) isn't unusual. Some even pay a bonus for being bilingeral in Spanish. One even advertised their top salesperson made $100,000+ in one year.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), August 30, 2001.

Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

I sold cars for a while, it's not really the salepersons fault. Management promotes certain procedures and tricks and if the salesperson doesn't follow along, they're done for. The salesperson themselves don't make much off a sale. He may spend all day working a deal on a 30k vehicle and only pocket $100-200 himself in the end. Better money is made for the salesperson on used rather than new cars. Those ads you see are more deceiving than their car sale ads. The high turnover is because for 95% of salepersons it's not a very good job. The average salesperson makes alot less than you'd think and nowhere near those numbers mentioned in a prior post. Maybe the top 2% in the biz make that kind of money.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), August 30, 2001.

Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

I haven't found a honest one yet but I am only 58 years old. Give me a hint where they might be. Texas, where I live passed a heck of a consumer protection law all because of the car dealers. It has helped. Bill

-- Bill Porter (porboy298@yahoo.com), August 30, 2001.


Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

A few things to do to lessen being bamboozled. Pay little attention to how much they give you for your trade in. They can sense if it's important to you to get a good price on the trade-in and will pad the trade-in offer by just working the numbers on other things. Financing is another thing they'll take advantage of you if they can. They get a kickback from finance companies. The biggest mistake I used to see was that the average person only looked at the monthly payment, they didn't pay much attention to the finance rate or total payments and all the unneccessary add-ons.

don't believe in 'sales' Everyday is the same, they just want you to think something special is going on. If you fall for it, half their job is done already. take 15-20% off the sticker price. If you play hardball, you should be able to buy the car around that figure. That applies to new or used.

negotiate for a cash sale. Don't give them anymore information that you need to, no matter how nice and friendly they are. Totally ignore the 'monthly payment' numbers. Ignore the worksheet(usually the "4-square") they write a bunch of numbers on. This is where they slip in the tricks. Refuse to talk anything but total cash price. Wait until you've agreed on that to talk payments if you'll be financing. Even if you plan on trading a car in, don't mention it until you've arrived at a final price and then say you'd like to trade your car in on it. Make sure you already know what the blue book trade-in value is, find out from your bank.

don't let them know you'll be using their finance dept, even if you will be. You can get raked over the coals in finance worse than working the price for the car.

the ball is always in your court, no matter what they say. Never buy a car on the 1st visit. Never sign anything, even if they say 'I need you to sign or initial this so my sales manager knows you're serious' Tell them their sales manager can come talk to you if he needs to. That's a little sub-conscience manipulation trick they use to help work you over. They have a few of those little tricks.

Let them know you will definitely be buying a car, but could care less whether from them or another dealer. Always keep the ball in your court, never act too interested. Always get up from working a deal and go home, especially when they say they can't go any lower. Don't believe them if they say they can't go lower, the sale ends today, someone else wants the car, their manager won't honor the numbers tomorrow, etc, etc. Nothing worse can happen to a salesperson than someone leaving the table without buying a car. Especially if you do it once and come back in a few days and say you're checking in with them and see if they're willing to meet your offer, they sure don't want you to leave again and will be easier to deal with. Use that to your advantage.

At times, say nothing at all. They'll use this trick on you too. Silence can do wonders in negotiations.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), August 30, 2001.


Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

one thing i have learned over the years is a bit hard for me to verbalize, but i will try.

there is a HUGE difference between you going to buy something and someone trying to sell you something. when you go to buy something and let the salesman know that you want/need/desire/crave/havetohave/gottoget whatever it is, you are already halfway screwed.

the other way is to have someone actively trying to sell YOU something. just think about this for awhile. took me many many many years to learn this. when you show that you are not exactly really interested in buying something, the salesman has to have the desire to work to sell you something.

i spent 9 1/2 years for car dealers, working in the service department. ( also had my own business for 5 years) i never sold cars, always worked in service. i've also bought a number of new and used cars in my life. i've seen first hand the difference. when someone comes in, needing to buy right away, they're already halfway screwed. many times i'd see salesmen hanging around in the service department, looking for potential customers. they'd offer me $50- $100 referral to notify them of potential customers, folks who owned cars in for service that might face a huge bill to repair. their theory was these folks might rather buy a new or used car instead of investing a huge sum of money in their own car.

now stop and think for a minute. who got the best deal? the folks who did not come in needing to buy a car but were instead approached by the salesman ( as long as the customer stayed cool and in control and did not get "new car fever".

no matter what the product is, cars boats rv's refrigerators stereos big screen tvs etc, if the consumer steps across the line and gets the fever to buy then the battle is lost.

also, be smart. learn about what you are buying and know how sales works. 99.99% of the time you can take your time. sometimes you will run across a genuine deal and you need to know when to jump on it. just be smart.

good luck.

gene

-- gene ward (gward34847@aol.com), August 30, 2001.


Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

by the way, the ONLY DAY to actually buy a car is on THE LAST DAY OF THE MONTH. especially late afternoon into evening. however, do your shopping before then.

car sales departments are on quotas. they get paid bonuses. the more sales the better. keep your head, be cool and thoughtful. tomorrow being the first day of the month the deals will NOT be as good.

and always negotiate with the finance department, even at your own bank or credit union. interest rates ARE negotiatble.

gene

-- gene ward (gward34847@aol.com), August 30, 2001.


Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

I agree with everything you said Gene. Most people that go in already stating the exact car they want, the options, color, etc are shark bait. Even if you have those things in mind, don't let the salesperson know it until you absolutely have to. Salespeople know the little tricks to suck someone into a case of gottahaveit. A good one is letting someone take the car for a day long test drive by themselves. By the time they get back to the dealership it's going to be alot harder to walk away after they've driven around all day, maybe showed it off to their friends. A good salesperson will be able to find the right buttons to push just by talking to you casually, then he'll work from that angle. I agree with what you said about quotas, it gets pretty desperate end of month and some salepeople by that point just want to make quota to keep their job and aren't worried about making a commission.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), August 30, 2001.

Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

I know many honest car dealers and have always developed relationships with them as I do a physician, through input from trusted individuals and referals by these same individuals. What I'm more wary of is some of the recently laid off guys with a car with the "for sale" sign in the window that has been completely detailed down to an engine degrease. My favorite used car salesman will detail the exterior and interior only, leaving the engine compartment "as is" and offer a degrease AFTER you purchase for free. This way you can see exactly what shape the engine is in. He also includes "carfax" statements with each sale. His reason as explained to me, he was burned as a teenager by a "grandfatherly" used car dealer and promised himself that he would never do that. He is one of the most successsful business men in our area and once jokingly put "Honest" in front of his name on his sign ( he has such an established clientele, he didn't mind if it scared away "off the street" customers:>)

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), August 30, 2001.


Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

yeah Jay, you can sometimes find a real gem in some of those used car lots. They can't afford to screw people over. I worked for one, coincidently in Alabama and he always gave people a fair deal. He actually got screwed over by some of his customers by being such a decent man. I was there for a year and recall repo'ing quite a few cars because many would make the down payment to get the car and never pay a dime after that.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), August 30, 2001.

Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

In INDIANA, there is an HONEST dealer by the name of Bob Poynter GM, which carries the complete GM line. They are located in Seymour, Indiana. I just helped my girlfriend in the purchase of her new Pontiac. We dealt directly with Bob, the owner, and I can say everything was straight forward, easy, no games, honest, lower priced than any dealer in Indianapolis and best of all, NO PRESSURE.

IF YOU NEED A NEW CHEVY-PONTIAC-OLDS-BUICK-CADILLAC, BOB POYNTER IS THE PLACE TO GO. THEY HAVE AN 800# AND CAN DELIVER ANYWHERE.

-- clovis (clovis97@Yahoo.com), August 30, 2001.


Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

Anyone who will ever purchase a vehicle needs the book titled "Don't Get Taken Every Time" by Remar Sutton. Remar was a car dealer, and he wrote the book because of the profound disgust at what he saw in the car sales industry. The book takes you through how to research a new or used car (so you know how much it is really worth) and how to "shop" your trade-in so that you know what it is really worth.

There is quite a bit of information on how the salesmen and floor managers screw the customers, and if you've bought a few cars in your lifetime from dealers (new or used) you'll be seeing red after reading it because you'll remember how they did the same thing to you.

This book is absolutely MUST HAVE for anyone who will ever purchase a vehicle of any type. It would be well worth it at 50 times the price, because you'll save much more than that on the next vehicle you purchase. Believe it or not, I've given this book to relatives who, after reading it, got mad at me because they realized how badly they'd been cheated in the past. It makes no sense, but, there it is.

-- Gunnar Ericson (gunnar@yifan.net), August 30, 2001.


Response to Apology to "Honest" car salesmens

A lot of insurance companies (AAA for one) and credit unions offer buying services where you can get the "fleet discount" price. You don't have to finance either to use this service if you are a member.

Another thing to try is take the Consumer Reports car issue in on the last day of the month and say I'll buy it for this price, take it or leave it.

Also, don't tell them what you do for a living--they ask all the time.

There was a book out at one time (I think AAA but am not sure) that told you how to negotiate over the phone with several dealers.

Finally, if you know someone who is really good at getting great deals, take them with you, or better yet, let them go alone and get your price, then call you to sign the papers.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), August 30, 2001.


Hi my name is dave and I'm a car salesman. "Welcome Dave!" Sounds cheesy? It's not. I'm proud to be a car salesman because I work for a great dealership and sell Hondas (The most reliable car in the world). Are we always the cheapest? no... but, we try. But more importantly I care about the people that buy cars from me. I call them after the sale from time to time to see how everything is going with their new honda and if there is anything I can do if something is wrong. I'm there for them 24/7. And you know what, they come back to me over and over again to buy more cars and it makes me feel proud. There is more to buying a car then the price. Ask your friends if they know a good salesman and go see them. And if you live in Northern California and need information on Hondas or would like to buy a new or certified Honda... Let me know. I would love to be able to help you. I'm not in sales to sell you one car. I'm in sales to sell you every car you and your family will ever need. Sincerely, David Gibbons UNIVERSITY HONDA in DAVIS, California

-- Dave in Davis California (hctv00@hotmail.com), February 13, 2002.


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