Dairy Cow Heat Cycle Questions

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You all know we got our Guernsey cow, Ginger. Well, George, her bull calf hit the ground June 9th. We got her 6 days later. The guy who is going to do the AI said to wait till George was 50 days old, and then start giving Ginger the shots to bring her in heat. He said the chances of her conceiving were much greater this way.

When George was exactly 30 days old, Ginger started bawling like she was in heat. (our other cow always did that). I called and he said to wait, it is a false heat. (But, the guy we bought her from said to breed her at 30 days.) So we waited. She got her shot at 50 days and then a couple days later started bawling again, only this time, very loud and not stopping. I called him right away and he said it was a false heat again! She bawled from 2pm to well into the next morning. I called him again the next morning and told him she was still bawling like 18 hours later, but he said no, it wasn't real.

Well the second shot was due 2 days later, she got it, and then he came two days after that to check her. I told him she was not in heat. He palpated her and said if we AI'd her now we'd just be wasting our money. He said he went to school to learn how to do this. I've talked to allot of folks and they all say that when the cow is in heat, they are very vocal. Plus that morning, she did not want Steve to milk her, she was acting snotty. I told him all that the second time I called him and he didn't think that meant a thing.

I don't want to go with the shots again, I don't like using them anyway. Are any of you experienced in AI? I have heard you AI the cow 8 hours after the cow starts bawling. I believe if we had AI'd her late that first night, she'd be bred.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), August 14, 2001

Answers

Response to Dariy Cow Heat Cycle Questions

Hi, Cindy. They certainly can be vocal, but I have a herd situation so the only ones who bawl like that are the heifers who are having serious heats for the first time. (I have no idea why this is. ) As far as breeding as early as 30 days, that would have been a waste of money. She might have been ovulating then, but the chances of her actually breeding that early are low and it's gambling. Better to wait until another cycle or two and you up her conception rate to 80% instead of 30%. The accepted timetable is breed the first time at 50 or 60 days post calving.

It sounds to me like she had a normal cycle at 30 days, then at 50 days came into another normal heat. Giving the shot right on top of it didn't do a thing, since the purpose of the shot is to interrupt her normal cycle and bring her into heat and she was already there. If I were you I'd watch her like a hawk on day 70 (20 days out from her last heat) and then do like you planned with the 8 hour delay. Even if the shot did disrupt her some, she won't be moved beyond a couple of days from where she should be showing heat. Remember a cow's cycle is 21 days, normally, but I've seen them as low as 19 and as long as 28. If you can rely on one cycle, Ginger sounds like she's just a bit short to right on the button of 21. Hope you get her bred this next time!

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), August 14, 2001.


Response to Dariy Cow Heat Cycle Questions

My advice would be not to ask the AI guy's opinion anymore. Sounds like he doesn't know what he's talking about. In any case, he doesn't know your cow, and how she acts when she's in heat. On her next heat just figure out when you need him and ask him to come out then. By the way, some dairies are breeding their cows back on their second heat if the cow is in in good condition. The old rule used to be 60 days. And since your cow bawls like she does, it's easy for you to tell when she's in heat, so you don't need the shots. They are only useful when you have a cow who has hard to detect heats. The best time to AI is starting 8 hours (sorry, don't remember the outside limit to this, but you have some leeway after 8 hours - we have bred cows in the morning who went into standing heat the evening before with success) after the cow is in standing heat, not 8 hours after she starts bawling. I have a cow who starts bawling around 12 hours before she goes into standing heat. It can be a little difficult to determine when a cow goes into standing heat when she's alone. When I just had one cow, I would walk up behind her and sort of give her a push on her rump. When she was standing, she would brace her back legs and put her tail to the side. When your calf gets older he will mount your cow, and you just watch for when she starts standing still for him. Hope this helps some. Good luck.

-- Paula (chipp89@bellsouth.net), August 14, 2001.

Thanks. I'm going to watch her close. She is in very good shape. The calves are separated from her by field fence, but they hang together out there on their own sides of the fence. Rosco the gelded donkey is in with her. He follows her wherever she goes every day anyway. The day she was in real strong, she hung out in the paddock instead of the field, and she followed Steve around too.

Paula, if your cow went into standing heat 12 hours after she starting bawling, then you breed 8 hours after that, that's 20 hours. I gotta watch her close this time. I know she was very upset this last time.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), August 14, 2001.


Hi, Cindy! I think you either need a new inseminator, or he needs to go back to school....one of the first things they teach you in to listen to the cow's owner, because they know their individual cows. Anyway, the general rule of thumb is: 1) Don't breed cows until at least 60 days after calving. 2)Know when the cow first appeared to be in heat. Ovulation doesn't take place until about 14 hours after the end of the heat period. Best conception rates are obtained when cows are bred more than 6 hours but less than 24 hours before ovulation. Cows first noticed to be in heat during the ealy morning hours should be bred in the afternoon of the same day. Cows in heat between 9:00 am and noon should be bred early the next day; those that come in heat during the afternoon should be bred about noon the next day. 3) Leave the cow in the barn in her stanchion for four hours after breeding. Did you ever get a chance to try the cottage cheese recipe? I am finally getting my Guernsey this coming Saturday. But I'm not getting the bottle calf, I am getting a springer heifer due in late winter! I am so excited!! Weird coincidence, her name is Ginger. Hope you manage to get your Ginger bred. Are you breeding her back to Guernsey? Kathie

-- Kathie in Western Washington (twinrosefarm@centurytel.net), August 14, 2001.

Hi Kathie! Yes I did try the cottage cheese recipe, and I had to bury it in the garden! I didn't do it right. I will keep trying. I think because I heated up the milk maybe it won't work.

The guy didn't have Guernsey, but small calving red angus. He said Guernsey is hard to get. Since I have to wait a few days I have someone else I can call on getting Guernsey. I quess I can ask the vet to do it. He's soooo busy though, he gets called away allot.

What's a springer heifer? Ain't that neat her name is Ginger too! Send me a pic in an email and I'll post it on here for you! Does she look like my Ginger? George is soooo pretty and big. I had to have names that start with a G for Guernsey. Our next one will be Ginny. Then we will have 2 hopefully. Our 4 calves are doing super, all they get is her milk and grain and pasture. I'm going to print out this thread and keep it handy.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), August 14, 2001.



Hi, again, Cindy. I don't have any idea where the exprssion came from, actually. It's springer heifer, springing heifer, or just springer. It means that she is at least 4 months pregnant. Maybe someone else knows why the term is used? Kathie

-- Kathie in Western Washington (twinrosefarm@centurytel.net), August 14, 2001.

Springer heifer: a first calf female cow that will calve in the spring.

-- Louise (rockinhorse@knoxy.net), August 15, 2001.

Around here (South Central MO) a springer is a heifer or cow that is due to calf in the next week.

-- Tana Cothran (tana@getgoin.net), August 15, 2001.

What is a safe withdrawal period for the IN-SYNCH, dinoprost tromethamine. The insert says "no milk discard or preslaughter drug withdrawal period is reqired for labled uses." But the guy said 5 days, as it will cause abortions. What really is a safe time to use her milk for us and the dogs again? I am not going to use this shot anymore.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), August 15, 2001.

A springer hiefer is a heifer that is starting loosen up in the hindquarter in preparation for calving. She will start to "spring" internally and externally an average of 30 days before calving.

-- Linda Miller (harrylindamiller@prodigy.net), August 16, 2001.


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