Anyone dig basement under existing house themselves? Or hire someone to do same?

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We live in an old farmhouse that just grew. The original basement (and house) is about 20' x 20' in the center of the existing house. Since then another house was brought in and attached to the front, one porch converted to kitchen and bath, and old garage converted to laundry room. What we would like to do is create useable basement space, section by section under the added portions of the house, then making doorways between the sections. That way we would have a decent storm shelter, not to mention better storage for canned goods. We are interested in hearing from anyone who actually dug out a basement under their house. How did you do it??? How do you hold up the house while you excavate, etc.? Any details would be appreciated. (Or conversely, if someone hired it done, what did it cost?) Joyce

-- Joyce Dingman (friendspatterns@juno.com), August 11, 2001

Answers

Seems to me you have two outcomes. YOu do it right or your house falls in on your. I dont think this is a DIY project to learn on.

-- Gary (gws@redbird.net), August 11, 2001.

without the proper supports and such under the additions,, you would have to, "jack up" the addition,, dig and support,, then lower the addition onto the supports. or you risk having a "lean" or collapse,, it will lean if you dig and support as you go,, the dirt will settle some,, even if you dont notice it. Is it possible to extend the basement to where there is nothing aboove it? Thats may be an option

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), August 11, 2001.

What about digging a new basement next to the house, then move the entire house onto the new basement??

cheers,

-- Max (Maxel@inwindsor.com), August 11, 2001.


My Mom tells the story about how after she was married and had their first kid (I was #5) they were living with her folks in an old turn of the century farm house. Her dad took a mind that the house needed a cellar. (It must be added that he had been a foreman with the State Highway Department and had much experience with heavy construction.) He dug the cellar from under the house while two families were living in it. The ground was very hard and he used dynamite to loosen it up. My Mom tells the story that every time she would just get the baby to sleep: KABOOM! I don't think he used full sticks. Maybe quarter sticks. I think this falls under the category: "Don't try this at home." LOL

-- Skip in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), August 11, 2001.

I'm not much for this attitude of "only professionals can do anything, I am just an incompetent idiot". Seems to be a laterday mantra though as we are told this over and over at school and on tv and by our elected leaders. However you do need to be really careful of how you support the house. If really big house, might even contact a house moving outfit to see what they'd charge to put it up on timbers like they do when they are ready to move a house. What you use to dig depends how rocky ground is. I've known couple guys who dug own basements with a pick, shovel, and wheelbarrow. Also one woman who dug her basement with a small tractor and a three point hitch slip bucket. Personally, I might rent a backhoe or if really reasonable soil, a skid loader might work well. The people I know who did this themselves had relatively modest one story houses. They had to buy the concrete block anyway, so stacked those in big piles to support the house as they dug. Can even dig perimeter and start footings and outside walls for at least most of house before even excavating inside basement if you are using skid loader or small tractor or wheelbarrow/strongback to excavate inside. Just leave access.

-- hermitjohn (hermit@hilltop_homestead.zzn.com), August 11, 2001.


Hermit John: You don't need to be a professional to do this sort of thing. Just smart enough that you don't end up on the front page of the local newspaper: "Man crushed while digging basement from under house. Home a total loss." We are all engaged in a wide variety of activities at the novice, beginner or intermediate level. We get along fine as do-it-yourselfers without being pros. Certain activities such as this seem to carry a high degree of risk and failure would be serious and expensive and could be fatal. I'm not trying to defame or slam anyone, but in my opinion, anyone who asks the question "How do you hold up the house while you excavate?" on this forum ought to be asking the question of a local contractor and then letting him do the work. Its kind of like the saying: "If you have to ask how much it costs you can't afford it." If you don't have the skills for this sort of thing already, you are not going to get them here on this forum.

-- Skip in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), August 11, 2001.

in south carolina where i live plenty of folks have dug cellers under their house's, the first thing to see about is how hard the earth is under the house,we have red clay that is hard as a brick. hard ground will need to be broken up with a pick. if there is any moisture it is not a good idea to dig,so i think i would see how dry the ground is first. most basements that are self dug are just hollow places under the house to store stuff. some have dug and poured concrete slabs and blocked up the walls to the top of the rest of the dirt,to keep from filling back in. altho most i have seen was little more than a hole under the house. but all of them had some type of supports built in. a few with brick hard ground just dug around the pillars and then removed the pillar supports once the new suppors are in place. others i have seen just left a clay pillar under the brick pillars, not what i would want under my house,just my opinion. but all of the self dug basements come from a time when you could hire a pick laborer dirt cheap! and them days are gone,(not sure i want a wino diging up my house)...:) so it can be done just how hard do you want to work?? a friend of mine's grampa dug a 65' well by hand, his wife would lower him down with a rope tied to the family car.......now that dude was a man!

-- paul a coleman (wormfarmerone@yahoo.com), August 11, 2001.

Max, $$$$$$$$$$ Joyce

-- Joyce Dingman (friendspatterns@juno.com), August 11, 2001.

Skip, Technically, we know you use house jacks, and professional house movers generally put beams under the house to support it. In other words we have a "general" idea of how it is done. It is just that there doesn't seem to be anywhere to read (with illustrations) to get a clear picture of it. I have heard stories of people years past who dug basements under existing houses (success stories, not tradgedies). I know someone whose grandparents did it using a team of horses and some kind of scoop bucket they dragged. So we know it has been done.....

-- Joyce Dingman (friendspatterns@juno.com), August 11, 2001.

We have a recent estimate to do the same,a 17 x 30 basement under an addition to our 150 yr. old home.We have an original hand dug basement under1/2 of the house so this basement would butt up against it.We did'nt bother thinking about doing it ourselves,but if you can great!The contractor said we could do it two ways,roll the back addition sideways to give the eqipment room to get under ,or jack it up on timbers and go under with a smaller digger.The cost for a poured foundation and the digging was 12,000.( canadian)There was a special thing they had to do in between the two walls for drainage,like a half wall,a fot of space with gravel for drainage.Best wishes!!!!!Just a thought ,where we are you can hire fellas to just put the house up for you,then you could digg it out yourself.We just wanted it done quickly ,so hiring it out was best for us.

-- teri (dnsmacbeth@aol.com), August 11, 2001.


Stan, No, that's the problem. The existing basement is exactly in the middle of the house surrounded by four separate structures that were added later, one at a time. I will add that three of the additions are only one story. We're talking a side porch about 7' x 20' and another about 10' x 20' (and one room 13' x 30'.....)

-- Joyce Dingman (friendspatterns@juno.com), August 11, 2001.

Skip, Don't worry, there is no way I would let my husband within 100' of dynamite! ;-) Joyce

-- Joyce Dingman (friendspatterns@juno.com), August 11, 2001.

Teri, Thanks, that gives me an idea (except of course I need to convert Cnd to US$ but still..... Joyce Was thinking about the possiblility of having professionals put the supports in place and then doing the digging ourselves....

-- JoyceDingman (friendspatterns@juno.com), August 11, 2001.

Skip, I understand where you are coming from. I have done all kinds of crazy backyard-engineering type things. Never a calamity since I have pretty good innate sense of simple physics and am usually over cautious. I am also not so conceited that I wont go out and research how professionals and others have done a simular job (what Joyce is doing now). No reason to reinvent the wheel if I dont have to. Many people dont have good sense. Usually from what I've seen, those that dont, wouldnt even consider doing anything like this themselves or if they do, they dont survive, thus helping out the human genetic pool. I just mourn the times when people in this country had the right to be stupid and take risks that they themselves could decide. Right now we are over protected from ourselves by the government and those in buisiness agree wholeheartedly with restrictions since this eliminates amatures and smaller competitors. We are headed to the densly populated, highly taxed, overly restricted society Europe and other places have had for some time.

To Joyce, probably best safest way is to start building your replacement footings and foundation walls as you go along with the excavation, assuming you are doing the masonary work yourselves. This is slow and inefficient, but pretty safe. Otherwise as I suggested earlier, maybe hire house moving company to put the house up on timbers. They will rent you the timbers. Just tell them what you are doing so they can support it in an appropriate manner. These folk will know what they are doing since they usually have to move whole house down the road.

-- hermit john (hermit@hilltop_homestead.zzn.com), August 12, 2001.


Where I use to live there were two men who would hand dig basements or septic system where equipment could not go. they keep their shovels sharp that's for sure. I picked up a kid hitching a ride a year ago, he told me that he digs basements by hand. If I were going to dig a basement, I would find someone to do it by hand, I doubt that I could do it myself.

-- hendo (redgate@echoweb.net), August 12, 2001.


I have a friend back in Utah who dug (maybe still digging?) his basement by hand. Just a pick, shovel, and a wheelbarrow. Its hard slow work. Last time I was out there he was about 7/8th of the way there, but he had run into some bracing and foundation problems. His braces were sinking which was pulling in the block walls in a bit. Not sure if he fixed that yet or not.

I know the farmhouse I grew up on had a finnished basement with a dirt froor, and was made out of fieldstone. The basement had about 5 foot 8 inches clearance. We dug another foot or so out to where you didn't bump your head everytime you were down there. Very time consuming.

I'd say if you talked to a local contractor, he could tell you the best way to go about it. A little more insight about potential problems you may have.

-- Uriah (Uriahdeath2@netscape.net), August 12, 2001.


5 seperate structures, all added together at different times... I'd guess this is a different lift than a building which was erected as one unit... and would also require more complex support making it more difficult to excavate.

I like Stan's idea... excavate to the existing basement where there is nothing above it, even if that means removing (and later rebuilding) one of the existing additions.

cheers,

-- Max (Maxel@inwindsor.com), August 12, 2001.


Hermit John: "I just mourn the times when people in this country had the right to be stupid and take risks that they themselves could decide. Right now we are over protected from ourselves by the government and those in buisiness agree wholeheartedly with restrictions since this eliminates amatures and smaller competitors. We are headed to the densly populated, highly taxed, overly restricted society Europe and other places have had for some time".

Yep, we mourn together.

-- charles (clb@dixienet.com), August 12, 2001.


Hermit John, Thanks for seeing the point! A. Trying to see if anyone HAD done this successfully, and B. If not, had anyone hired a professional and the cost.... How can we make informed decisions if we don't ASK! :-) Everyone's capabilities are different. I know folks who call a plumber to change a faucet. For them, that is beyond their capabilities. Joyce

-- Joyce Dingman (friendspatterns@juno.com), August 13, 2001.

Joyce, Our old house has a hand dug basement that was added after the fact. My father-in-law dug it by hand, poured the footing, laid up the blocks and poured the floor, much of it by himself. He ramped under the non-bearing side and used a 9N Ford and a slip scraper (which required a helper) to drag the dirt out after it was loosened by hand.

I have a friend who hired his 15 year old son and a neighbor boy to dig a basement under his house. They were pretty efficient - they used two conveyors (like the old stoker coal haulers used) to belt the dirt out from under the house and into a small dump truck. They threw the dirt on the first conveyor, it belted it to the second conveyor, and the second one dropped it into the truck. The two boys completed the excavation in a couple of weeks, their biggest obstacle being that neither boy had a drivers license and had to wait for dad to get home to unload the truck each day.

The hand dug basements that I have seen are all about 4 feet narrower than the outside house dimensions, in other words - the digger leaves about two feet of undisturbed soil to support the existing house foundation. Your situation with the house additions and existing basement would add to the problem, but with careful planning should not be impossible.

Years ago, in our neighborhood, we had a neighbor who was hand digging a basement under his old two story farmhouse when the rain set in and did not let up for several days. During the night, the sides of the excavation started caving in and the house started settling into the hole. It is important that you plan ahead for drainage during the excavation process. Make sure the surface water has somewhere to go besides in the hole.

Good luck with your project.

-- Paul (hoyt@egyptian.net), August 13, 2001.


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