Building on a rocky hill

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We have the opportunity to buy 20 acres in Iron county in Missouri, good price. The catch is. . . it's up a hillside. About 300 foot of rise up the hill with a few "level" plateaus along the way. There isn't any real flat ground on the whole parcel. The area is mostly granite, maby 2" of topsoil and a few springs sprinkled here and there. There isn't any code for sewage or much in the way of building.

Anyone out there have any experience in building/developing on land like this??? It would be a part-time endeavour while we pay off the house in STL and find employment nearby. It's close to Johnson Shut In's (some of the most beautiful country around). I know that with pole building you can do it most anywhere but beyond that and the sewage question (we have to drill a well somewhere on the slope as well as manage the sewage). The road to it also, Switchback city.

The bottom areas of the hill doesn't get much breeze or view, the top is excellent view, good breeze. How do you build on something like this or is it one of those situations you probably shouldn't?

I REALLY want to make it work, but checking the topo against the plat map shows the end of the property just below the ridge line and across the front of the hill. Power line is just at the edge of the property running up the hill.

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. I am getting a good deal on the price (very good). Thanks - Mary

-- Mary Johnson (sageladyone@yahoo.com), July 03, 2001

Answers

Hello. What direction is the property facing? Will you get sun in the winter. I would guess the road and well will be big money.

-- ed (edfrhes@aol.com), July 03, 2001.

Mary, I've built quite a few homes on fairly steep ground. There are a couple of good ways to deal with it. First, a step foundation. Second, partial or complete earth shelter.

Be aware that the steeper slopes have hazards associated with them: instability, erosion, and wildfire, to name three. Since you had to ask about this, I suspect you would be wise to consult with an engineer before building.

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@ecoweb.net), July 03, 2001.


There may not be much regulation as to septic systems but on a steep hill with rock is one of the most difficult places to install a working system. And if it does not work it will stink and pollute your well if you are successful in drilling a well. In my experience land that is really low in price is low in value be careful some land is not a bargin if they paid you to take it.

-- David (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), July 03, 2001.

Mary, be careful. Yeah you CAN build a pole building on fairly steep terrain, but it gets pricey fast. You have to sink the poles EXTRA deep, which means your poles are going to be very expensive because they're going to have to be really really long. I'm talking on the order of 9' to 12' deep, depending on the slope you're dealing with. My poles are sunk about 5' deep (except for one where we hit a rock, its like 4' deep). And really they SHOULD properly have been at least 6' deep. I'm on a very gentle slope, about 2' of drop over 25' of run (very rough estimate there).

You're talking heavy equipment and knowledgeable builders to do this and do it right. If the slope is rocky I'd be concerned about slides and the stability of the hill. I've seen land like that, rocky and steep, and most of it didn't look real stable to me. Also if its rocky its going to be harder to drill the holes for your posts, and harder for men and equipment to get around and to get materials where they need them. Thus more expensive. And somebody already warned you about potential septic problems with a site like this.

Jumpoff Joe is right, you'd better consult a good engineer. Why are you considering such a problem site and apparently with no actual usable land? How good IS the price? Think twice, "cheap" land but expensive building solution is what I think you very well may be facing.

-- Sojourner (notime4@summer.spam), July 03, 2001.


You may want to check with well drillers for a rough guestimate on having a well installed. Composting is a possible solution to avoid sewage, but you're still left with a very difficult grey water problem. I have no experience with building on rock, but I'd assume there are solutions which use some type of anchor directly into the granite (if stable)... so perhaps conventional stick building is a possibility. Power running up the hill is good news... as getting over/through rock would add considerable expense. I'd imagine the property price is low as the building conditions are difficult (i.e. expensive) and the land is of little practical use. I think day to day living on such a slope would also present many challanges. I'd agree that an engineer would be a must.

cheers,

-- Max (Maxel@inwindsor.com), July 04, 2001.



About the sewer system, my neighbor, whose home is situated on the top of a rise of solid rock, and is 200 feet from the lake, ended up putting in a system called a "constructed wetland". Basically it is above ground. As it goes down the slope it is terraced with the use of railroad ties, lined and filled with sand. Sewage goes into a tank, then into an evaporator tank with sand and gravel, and planted with different types of plant material. Somehow it goes through the evaporator tank and the livng plant material and is cleansed, then goes into the lateral lines that are buried in sand and held in the railroad tie area. This solves the problem of not having to dig in solid rock, and is an approved system than won't pollute the lake water, in your case, your well water. Drawback.. I think the final cost on it will be $15,000. Advantage.. the terracing with the filled in RR ties, gave them a flat yard area, that was previously a very steep slope. Go to google.com and type in "constructed wetlands Sewer" and there are lots of sites that explain the system and also photos and diagrams that will make more sense that my sad attempt to tell you how they work. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you. Carole

-- Carole in Tx (carle@earthlink.net), July 04, 2001.

i work for a civil engenering company you can build anything any where if you have the money.not all rocky hillsides are stablein my area many hilsides with rock visible on the surface are coluvial in structure that is they are prehistoric landslides that have found thier stable slope ...put a building on it and add water from a septic system and you have a landslide again.see if the rocks arelaying in a pattern flat and level if you dig into the slope and yes steep land presents lots of logistic problems .it seems to me there are lots of old farms in the outlaying areas with good land more than reasonable in price often with an old house or barn usable or at least servicable untill you can build what you need

-- george darby (windwillow@fuse.net), July 04, 2001.

We couldn't believe our eyes when we seen your post. We live near where you are seeking to buy. If we knew exactly where on "N" hwy your talking about, we perhaps could help you. Also, what real estate agent are you using? Use caution. We live in the free-est part of the country when it comes to regulations & on most things. Our best resource is Elaine from the extention office in the Iron County court house. If she doesn't know it, she will seek diligently to find it. She has had great challenges (mostly from us) and she has done wonders. This is God given country. It's our version of the Smokey Mountains. Please feel free to e-mail us. We would love to hear more.

Diana(MO)

-- Diana(MO) ((secondchance)safehavenofhope@hotmail.com), July 04, 2001.


just in case the engineer gives an affirmative nod . . .

One book on underground homes on a budget is the classic "$50 and up Underground Home", by Mike Oehler (sp?), who gives some good ideas on building on sloping ground. If you can use some of that free rock for rubble built-up walls, so much the better.

My aunt built a home on sloping property about five years ago. Her experience has been good and bad. GREAT views from the porch, for example. She can see anyone coming to her house. Drainage is a concern; winter ice on switchback roads she has is a little scary. Major rains cut her off from leaving her property at times. Get a topographical map from a soil extension office, get a soil perculation test done(at cost to the present owner is reasonable)to find out if septic tank is out of the question. Hope this land deal works out for you; cheap property is hard to find these days.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), July 05, 2001.


Thanks for your replies. The property faces NW (not very good), and the price is 250 an acre. I've got some thinking to do. Hubby wants to buy a "ready made" place and I'm starting to agree with him. Not afraid of work but this might be just too much to deal with!

-- Mary Johnson (sageladyone@yahoo.com), July 05, 2001.


Make SURE there is accessable water there FIRST, that you can afford to reach by drilling!!!

Don't be afraid of pole barn type construction (if you have no zoning to worry about), we live in some very steep hills and have pole barns on 45 degree slopes, no problem, and we get lots of heavy rain here!!! Just have it done right, 4 feet down in concrete is FINE !!!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), July 07, 2001.


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