Wow, I'm so grateful to all of you answering my EPISODE I goat questions. Now I have a few more, if you don't mind. What does ++*B mean? (the ++ part especially, I've seen them in ones and twos) Where or How do you go about getting you goats milking (for *M) tested?? Is it expensive? How do you decide when or if to bother??? The doelings dame is miling out at 12 lbs now (2nd freshening), and with the milkers on the sire side, and the doelings dams sire being *B, I have hopes for her. I asked Brynne at Dream Goats if she was going to test the dam, but no response yet. Oh, I found the rest of the doelings dam's pedigree, which I listed at the bottom of EPISODE I question on down the forum line, if anyone is interested.

Do any (or all) of you show your goats?? How do you find out where the shows are? Is it hard? This doeling is supposed to be showy, and we are hoping to improve from here. Anything you guys have to share would not be wasted on me. :-)

Anyone used A.I. for their goats??

-- Marty (Mrs.Puck@Excite.com), June 17, 2001

Answers

Yes, I use A.I. It's a very economical way to increase the quality of your herd in a short time. I have shown at the local county fair, which wasn't an official show, but had something like 70 entries not counting the 4-H rs. I imagine that an official show would be fairly simialr except that tatoos would be checked and papers would be required.

The *B usually means that the buck's dam earned her milking star. The + symbol is more important, as it denotes that the buck has at least three daughters who have produced well OR two sons who are advanced registry sires (having sired three daughters meeting advanced registry requirements, from three different dams.) The ++ is even better, it means that the buck has both the three high producing daughters from three different dams,AND the two sons that are advanced registry sires. How to get the milking star? Well you can go on test or lease your doe to someone on test, or take her to a one day milking competition. These are sometimes held at shows and fairs. I think the one day test is cheaper, but then the full 305 day record tells you a lot more than one day of testing. If you are not a member of ADGA yet, you might want to join, they will send you a guidebook that will go into more detail on these questions.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), June 17, 2001.

Showing has very little to do with 4H and children, it is mostly children showing in Open Youth and adults showing in open shows. You will join ADGA, and then start showing. Send in the 25$ and they will send you your registration number, your tattoo sequence for your right ear or tail (you will be able to choose from letters if you want) mine is VSJ for myself and my daughters initials (you will have to be very lucky to get a 3 digit one anymore), and a directory. In the directory there will be lists of clubs in your area. Join a club, this is the best information you will get on shows. Most folks who are involved with clubs do so to put on local as well as go to distant shows. Dairy Goat Journal and United Caprine are the best subscriptions for finding out about shows, as are belonging to the groups over at Yahoogroups.com Whatever area you are from has a District list, I am from District 6 Texas, so I belong to the District 6 list, well actually I belong to most of them. They also have breed specific lists like Nubian Talk, Saanen Talk etc.. with over 1000 folks Nubian Talk is really a must no matter what breed. I also have a small site on MSN The Goat Shed, lots of us on their show.

You will transfer this doeling into your name, checking her tattoo's, and registering or transferring the rest of your stock. Your biggest feat as a new person will be to assimilate all the information you can on bucks to improve upon the does that you have. You will very quickly see the qualities and faults of your stock by showing them. In line ups the judges give reasons why you are infront of or behind the animals in the line. You will want to improve upon the reasons why you grant to the doe in front of you (width, dairy character etc). Your first time out just visit. See just how layed back it is, notice the tack folks bring, and the way they shave the goats and trim their feet. If you bought from a reasonably close breeder, she or he should be willing to help you your first time out. Make sure that the nice kid you purchased for just a goat, is actually now show worthy. Because lots of kids which are perfectly fine for the homestead, are not show stock. Nothing is as a bad as a family purchasing a doeling for 50$, then after purchasing this pet quality kid deciding upon showing it and being very dissapointed.

Hit a show this fall with a one day milking competition to get your gal her star. It is economical to be on DHIR for your milk star, only if it is popular in your area, since you can't weigh the milk yourself a milk tester or two must live in your area. All of this information will be in the Guide Book you also receive.

AI isn't for the newbie, unless you have a really good background in livestock, or are lucky enough to have a local breeder who does this for a fee. The cost of the equipment, tank and nitrogen, shipping of semen with a shipper tank, put the cost above keeping a good buck. In the long run this like showing at the Nationals can eaisly be a goal for your herd. Just not to start with. There are excellent tapes out for basic information along with AI clinic's at teaching universities. But for virgin does and new folks you can't beat an older buck in rut. Start with leasing, don't buy bucks right off if you don't have to. Make part of the sale of the stock you purchase, a breeding her first year. And....don't be breeding your does any earlier than the gal who raises this bloodline. Just because everyone says they breed at 8 months, just how competetive are their goats? Most does who aren't given enough time to mature never grow into those big 3 to 5 year olds that then go on and win. This has nothing to do with size and everything to do with how fast or slow the bloodline matures. At your first show take speical care to watch the 12 to 24 Junior class. If everyone is breeding at 8 months, than why a class for this age group? They would all be home having kids at 13 months correct ??? :) And believe me it is the fullest class at every show!! We have been showing since 1989, now with my daughters grown I haven't shown that much this last 2 years, 2 or 3 shows a year. I am very proud that we have had show wins this last two years mostly with goats sold to other people. It is not hard to show. Most shows now are one day affairs, everyone is really busy, so don't feel like you are being overlooked. At a show really isn't the best time to talk to breeders running the show and trying to show their stock, so don't think the folks are snobs. Read the show rules very carefully and ask if you don't understand what it says. Preparing before you go into the ring is the most important, a clean, well groomed goat, with a good hoof trimming job, and above all the correct weight and size, you should wear white, or at least jeans and a white shirt, perhaps with a small logo of your farm on it. Having your farm name and location on your shirt and also on a sign at your pens, helps introduce yourself to folks. Once you have stock for sale, adding business cards helps also.

No matter what don't pin your hopes upon your kids. You are breeding for that sound, up on her feet and legs, big robust, easy to milk, with an udder that is high and tight, older doe. Unless you have a fault keep your youngsters until they freshen, then sell them if you are only keeping show stock. Don't breed junk. A doe with an udder that is horrible, pendulous, doesn't have that much of a chance of breeding you something that you will one day win with. Certainly not with any consistancy. Always breed and buy only purebred of the breed unless you are just homesteading or buying Lamancha. Start testing your stock now for CAE. Get yourself a really good relationship with the vet of your choice. Don't leave this till you have a goat ill. Make an appointment and meet them without the goats, perhaps with a list of questions. Have WSU address with you as the place you want blood tests sent, only. Explain that they do the most current tests. Better yet find yourself a vet that one of your new goat friends uses and has already broke in! Follow a local breeder who has better stock than you at this point ever think you could possibly have, and copy her, hay, grain, minerals. The day you beat your mentor in the show ring with your own homegrown doe!!!

Should probably have sent this privately as my opinionated style doesn't settle very well with some :) Above all this is fun! Remember that we all started just like you!! That is why we are so happy for each other when we do have that Grand Champion win! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), June 18, 2001.