Need help with day old lambgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread
Hi, I have lurked here for awhile but have never posted before- hope some one can help me here- I need it.
A friend of mine gave me a day old sheep lamb that was having trouble nursing. She gave it some colostrum in a botttle and also tube fed it a couple of times so it has had mother's milk for the first day. The lady was feeding her every 3 hours. She brought me some sheep milk replacer for the lamb and here are my questions.
I gave it one feeding and it took 3 oz and then pooped out. I am shooting for 32 oz a day. Is feeding it every 2-3 hours too much? Not enough?
Can I accidently get milk from the bottle in the lamb's lungs by tilting the bottle too much? Is there a wrong way to bottle feed? I just tilt it so that air doesn't get swallowed (just like you would do for a baby) and support the lamb's neck.
The lamb's tongue hangs out the side of its mouth sometimes when it feeds. Is this always going to be a problem? Is this why it couldn't nurse from its mama?
I have a thorough Sheep manual but thought I would get a quicker response from the hands on people.
I got the 32 oz number from the replacer directions for a 4-10 day old lamb. For a 2 day lamb it said colostrum; well, duh, if I could get the mother's milk I'd use it! It seemed like a lot to me but what do I know? From the lambs cue it is really only eating about 4 oz every 4 hours.
I try the best I can to elevate the bottle to udder heighth and try to have the lamb stand up but the lamb doesn't seem to realize that the bottle is good. I have to shove the nipple in, hold it there,etc. The nipple she gave me has the hole a little large I think and so it dribbles. I'm just so clueless.
Been hitting websites and reading books all day and am getting nervous and paranoid. Now I wonder if the lamb is constipated because I haven't see it go #2 since noon. I know this because the critter is staying in the house overnight.
It is a FEMALE pure Ramboillet (sp?) and I spin. That is my intention at this point. I have already bonded with Baa-bette even though I tried not to. And she thinks I am her mother. She lays at my feet while I do the dishes.
Anyway, feel like I have twins with nursing the 6 month old and then feeding Baabette. I'm so nervous- what the h#@l was I thinking>?
I hope someone might have some insight, I sure don't. Thanks. Mrs G
-- Mrs G (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 05, 2001
Hang in there Mrs. G! I bottle raised 5 bum lambs last year, all were two days old when I got them. Let the baby eat what it wants right now...32 oz is quite a bit for one that young. Feeding every four hours is better than every two. And a bit longer at night is okay. You do need some sleep. You don't have to try and imitate bag height, just have it up so that the lamb is reaching up to it. The problem with the tongue may eventually clear up, and yes it could be why the lamb was having problems. Probably had a difficult birth which did some damage. Relax. You seem to be doing what you should. As far as constipation goes..that could get serious. See what happens in the morning and go from there. I'm not sure what to give one as a laxative. I know if it starts diarreha to dilute the formula for a day, make it watery. Good luck.
-- Deborah (bearwaoman@Yahoo.com), May 05, 2001.
You are doing fine. I had a baby goat that was too small and weak when it was born and I brought it in the house and left the twin for the mother. I was feeding only an ounce every two hours - whatever she would take for the first couple of days and then as I saw that she was getting stronger and taking a little more I stretched her to every 3 hours and then at a little over a week old got her to 5 feeding and after a couple of days down to 4 feedings - no night feeding and she was taking about 3+ ounces per feeding. At that point I gave her away and told them to keep increasing until she was taking 8 oz per feeding and then follow the bag instructions.
New babies do start slowly, so you are doing just fine. Also wait to see if it truly is constipated. The little goat went the first day, not at all the second, black stuff the third and then to yellow stuff after that.
-- beckie (email@example.com), May 05, 2001.
Mrs. G -- Hang in there. We raised bottle lambs every year. This year we had ONLY 17. Last year we had 21 and the year before 25. First of all, do you have a new nipple? Older worn out nipples allow the milk to come out too fast and the lambs don't suck and sometimes choke. Second, We offer the new lambs 4 oz six times per day to start. By the third day we usually offer 6 oz and move them to 4 times per day. IF they don't take all the six oz, that is okay. They will eat until they are full. Third, with the tongue hanging out the side or rolling around the nipple - you will need to put your fingers on both sides of the mouth to keep the tongue in. Some lambs just don't get the idea to suck and even if they do, they forget how to suck. Some are just lazy. You have to be persistent with them, and be patient. Sometimes a little Vit B will get their appetite going and they will want to suck better. ONce they get the knack of it, they will suck all the time. You may even have to simulate how they should move their mouth to suck by pushing their jaw up and down. If you have a baby bottle nipple you can use that with a baby bottle too. We found that the "problem" drinkers do better on baby nipples. We use a clear 6+ months nipple that has a cross cut hole. Bottles are easier to wash too. As for the #2 part, I wash my lambs with a baby wipe, first their face , then i rub their body, and last clean their backside. It is like the mother cleaning them. Rubbing their backside is how the ewe stimulates their bowels also. I discovered this by just wanting to clean one up last year because she was so dirty when we got her. Now I do it all the time and our bottle lambs aren't constipated anymore. Last, I know how you feel about feeding them all the time. We wean ours at two months so look forward to that! Oh, as the lambs take more and more milk, reduce the times you feed, first to three times a day and then to two times a day. If you have any more questions, post or email me directly. Good luck.
-- JoAnn in SD (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 05, 2001.
Sounds like you are doing really well, my kids don't poop after every feeding though they do pee after each bottle. The only 'trick' on the bottle is that ruminents stretch their heads, sort of cocking them to open the valve for drinking in their throats. If you notice cows, sheep or goats drinking from a water barrel they stretch their necks to drink across the barrel, not drinking with their heads down like horses and dogs. So holding the bottle up and down instead of slanted is the only difference between human bottles and kid/lamb bottles. The right nipple can really make all the difference. The pritchard teats that Jeffers, Pipestone.com and most catalogs are a far cry better than anything at feed stores, plus they simply screw onto the pop bottles. Might want to go to the Bloat thread and read up on some of the things you can do to improve your milk replacer, to stop bloat and diahhrea scours. Simply do not feed any milk replacer with soy in it.
The tongue hanging out of the mouth when nursing is a classic symptom of Nutritional Muscular Destrophy or White Muscle Disease. To improve the condition of this lamb I would take a 300IU Vitamin E capsule (just from Wallmart) snip the end and squish the contents into the mouth every day for the next week or so. A Bo-se shot 1/2cc for selenium from the vet would be an instant remedey for this, though we also continue with the E since Bo-se doesn't really contain enough E. Good luck with this, sounds like a nice little lamb for your spinning! You may also want to share the selenium information with the owner of the lambs, if she has many kids born with this or weekness in the legs or lack of nursing reflex, giving the dam a shot Bo-se before she kids, or improving the mineral would help her lambs. Vicki
-- Vicki McGaugh TX (email@example.com), May 05, 2001.
Vicky that Vit. E idea sounds good. I have always bought injectable and think the lamb would rather not get the shot. I am at 60 days and weaning is driving me nuts. That girl (last one) refuses to give up the bottle. I am giving her one but she screams all day long even though she has enought creep feed and water out there. If I walk out of the house I got another two hours of screaming! Mrs. G., Day one, every two hours 20 to 40 cc (30cc to an ounce), day three to a week I did every four hours at 200 cc. Looking at my records, Day 6 through day 15 I feed 6 times a day about 40 ounces total a day. Now I had started creep feed at about 10 days. It looks like at day 17 I was at 4 times a day 50 ounces a day. I am at one bottle, my bottle holds 17 and 1/2 ounces and I give this in the evening and will forget that bottle soon. I found a little trick if your lamb scours from lamb replacer and that was to put a pinch of nutmeg in the bottle. Aparently the show lamb industry uses this (they feed very hard and have a lot of scouring with their lambs). I had a little and what I did was for a feeding or two I gave them electrolites instead of milk replacer and then went to half and half before all milk replacer again, then added a dash (just a dash) of nutmeg to the milk.
If the lamb isn't interest in milk, make sure the mailk is warm they seem to drink warm milk better.
Too bad you can't get some Baby Lamb Strenth, it has alot of Vit. E in it although Vicky mentioned the Walmart Vit. E., (I am going to try that). I give all lambs that have trouble not wanting to eat a shot of Vit. B, for some reason they get an appetite. The show people feed their lambs phobiotics which increases appetite. I use that only in a case of giving anibiotics to a sheep and restarting their rumum. I think I rattle on here, sorry. Debbie
-- Debbie (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 05, 2001.
Mrs G. I just wanted to add that I was bottle feeding my first not too long ago. She would suck and suck then poop out. She was only taking 3 ozs where she should have been at 8 and didn't seem to be getting stronger. I finally realized that the hole in the nipple was too small. When I made it bigger, she sucked down that 8 oz and was looking for more. I'm just glad I figured it out before I lost her. Might not be your problem but something to look into.
-- Dee (email@example.com), May 05, 2001.
Decided to feed every 4 hrs. Went 5 1/2hrs last night and this morning really sucked down that bottle. She's like a different lamb today.
Has had some BM about the length of a chap stick tube. Not hard, not runny.
Was putting my fingers alongside her mouth to keep the tongue in and have not seen tongue hanging today. Went to the pritchard type nipple and then to an angled baby bottle. Both work well but I can handle the 2nd better. The baby wipe idea really works well!
Her replacer contains no soy and has minimun 150i.u. of Vit E/lb. Is that enough or should I still supplement? Should I give 200i.u. and it would all even out? Formula also minimum .3 ppm Selenium. Is that enough?
Eating lots more now; wagging tail, tugging at bottle,lots of pee,etc., but can drink about 6 oz in 5 mins. Is it too much too fast? I think I've had the milk go the wrong way a little because once or twice she has stopped eating and sneezed, made some wheezy sound, and then resumed eating. This only happens during feeding and a little after. Can she get sick this way? I'm trying to stretch her neck. I don't want to get her sick by my technique.
I'm sorry I have so many questions but you all are heaven sent!! Thanks!
-- Mrs G (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 05, 2001.
Less and more often is always better. If you look at babies nursing mom they nurse for a few minutes then come back later. Obviously that is not easy for us who might have something else to do like sleep. I would do the four hours for a week then go up to 6 hours. I just feed a full bottle to our last one and she is almost 2 mts old. You can wean much ealier I just can't stand her screaming for her bottle. My creep feed has selenium in it, so I don't know about that and you baby will not be on creep until it is 10 days old, although let her/him play with it at a week. Make sure the milk replacer is lamb replacer there is a big difference between cow and sheep in the fat contact and other things in the milk replacer. I would say 4 - 6 ounces is alright if she doesn't look bloated after feeding or hunch up her back as if she/he has indigestion. Also check poop. It will or should be yellowish for a week and not too solid, after that it should start to turn to normal and about 11 days old be in the pellet form. If at 11 days you see running yellowish/brown poop you need to do something. Debbie
-- Debbie (email@example.com), May 06, 2001.
Not to sound gross but to me the stool looks like mini butterscotch chips all stuck together. Is this too formed for a 3-4 day old lamb? I'm not worried about scouring at this point but am concerned about bloat. Don't know that I would be able to tell if it happened.
-- Mrs G (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 06, 2001.
Mrs. G.- Doesn't sound gross. We talk poop at our house all the time when we are watching our animals.HaHa. Being solid now shouldn't be a problem, in my opinion and experience. Better solid than runny. Sometimes the brand of milk replacer will cause the poop to be different. If it gets real runny and runs down the back of their legs, it is time to back off a couple of ounces on the milk. Some people go half and half but our vet told us to just back off on the milk. Works for us. If it continues to be runny, get some tetracycline pills from your vet and have him/her explain how to "pill" a lamb. But, in the meantime, I think you are doing great, poop seems fine, and no runny poop. Have you given it an overeating shot or did the mother get one before birth? If not, little lamb needs a shot. Keep up the good mothering!
-- JoAnn In SD (email@example.com), May 07, 2001.