Just a thought... Awhile back there were a few thoughts about coyotes creating a problem in mostly Eastern states & it was mentioned they they run in packs (coyotes don't) & they had a ruff around their neck (again, coyotes don't) & they were as big as German Shepards. Question I have is could they be some wolf hybrid pups that aren't pups anymore? Why do city people love to do that to critters they don't want? (I know that answer, it just makes me crazy, you know?) Maybe got too much to handle in normal life? Folks maybe underestimated the committment necessary to have that kind of critter? Is there a Humane Society in the world that would take such a critter for adoption? Can't see that one flying, can you? So the phone call would be "Sorry dear, we'll have to put Lobo down, regulations, you know" & poor wanna be ex-owner says, "Lobo deserves a better chance than that, huh?" A scenerio I can see all to easily. These animals WOULD see dogs/cats in a yard as prey itmes, WOULD be inclined to run in packs, Would resemble the descriptions offered earlier.

Anyway, I just wondered what y'all thought...K-K-K-Katie

-- K-K-K-Katie (yarnspinnerkt@hotmail.com), April 23, 2001

Answers

Katie -

It ain't just a city problem. Folks out in the country do that as well, and sometimes they don't even realize until after the dog's been gone for a while. That's why I 'clip' any animal I don't use for breeding.

I think you are probably right about them being mixed wolf pups... I've seen that a lot in the papers out here, too. People think they are seeing wolves, coyotes, whatever...

Most shelters do take part wolf pups. They are much more common than you might think. Somewhere, though, I heard that it is illegal to own a dog that is more than 1/3... I think it must be a state law back in IL, though... 1/2's are sold out here just like any show animal.

It is a shame, but folks just don't care about ANYTHING these days... let alone their 'pets'.

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), April 23, 2001.

Dogs also often cross with coyotes. In east Tx I have seen some large coyote hybrids. A cross with something like a malamute or a husky would be extremely wolf like. A cross with a german shephard makes a large coyote. You could be correct about them crossing with domesticated wolves. I always cringe when someone tells me they have a wolf as a pet. I have also seen many coyotes running in packs. They may not really hunt as a unit but they do travel to hunting grounds together at times....especially in the spring when they have young.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), April 23, 2001.

Katie, I don't know where you got the information that coyotes do not run in pacts. They do. It is common for young siblings to pack together and pairs are common where the hunting will support higher densities of coyotes. Coyote behavior has changed since they started moving eastward. Mating with dogs is not that uncommon, especially female dogs. I have not heard of a biological confirmed crossing with wolves in the wild. I would think a wolf would kill a coyote on sight.

-- Lynn Goltz (lynngoltz@aol.com), April 23, 2001.

Katie. I lived in PA for a while. I am fairly well versed in woods lore. I saw the first sighting of a coyote in the county- from then on it became a regular thing to see coyotes. The coyote I saw was nearly as large as a german shepard. Not quite, maybe 85 lbs. Still big enough to take down a very large ground hog (I saw it all happen- and the coyote got within 15 feet of me, so this was not a 'I think it was a coyote but it was someones mangy dog.' And when the coyote saw me, he ran like heck in the other direction). According to my wife who lived in California and Gary Paulson- a popular writer who lives in Minnesota, coyotes do indeed run in packs. Some of it is due to season. In minnesota they are called "brush wolves" but are really coyotes and have been known to run and kill deer. All the coyotes I ever saw were by themselves and very shy. And, to date, I have never had problems with a coyote.

-- Kevin in NC (vantravlrs@aol.com), April 23, 2001.

There are coyotes here in Kentucky though I've heard only one or two and not seen any. There were a lot of coyotes in Montana and Wyoming though, and I lived there most of my life. I've seen small packs of 3 or 4 coyotes, though mostly you will see them as singles. In the winter, especially, they can look huge with the winter hair ... but you can definitely tell the difference between them and a wolf ... I've seen both in the wild.

My Dad used to tell of hunting coyotes as a boy in South Dakota. They were a real problem with sheep and also would run in packs and kill newborn calves. They had a pack of "coyote dogs" that they hunted with, mostly greyhound type dogs, but also had a "kill dog" that was an airdale. He also told of coyote packs that would hang back and a single coyote would come up close to the ranch house and try to tease the farm dog far enough away from the ranch for the pack to run in and kill it.

-- SFM in KY (timberln@hyperaction.net), April 23, 2001.

Here in the west coyotes definitely run in packs, but I read somewhere that the ones in the east tend to be more solitary in their habits. I hadn't really thought much about this before, but it would be interesting to find out why that is (if, in fact, it's even true).

-- Leslie A. (lesliea@home.com), April 23, 2001.

I see coyotes in groups in our area. I think they group up to better distract old cows from their calves. We also once had one that would try to decoy our farm dog away from the house. I watched him trying to bait the dog several mornings, lobbed a deer slug at him and sent him on his way. Never noticed any re-occurance. You folks that are in love with them can have my share. I've enjoyed seeing the reintroduced deer and wild turkey in our area. They don't eat beef or pork.

-- Paul (hoyt@egyptian.net), April 24, 2001.

Oops, should've put in "USUALLY don't run in packs"...sorry. They were pretty solitary around Grandma's place in MN, what few there were,but there it was more of a wolf problem, if one existed. They did have a problem with ferel dogs in that area, but that was MANY years ago.

Didn't ever think wolves mate with domesticated dogs - I think they're seen more as food than fun. Man has, however, has managed to mess that up. Just wondered if the very popular wolf/dog crosses could be what folks were seeing. Am really surprised humane societies would take them in for adoption. Thanks for the ideas, folks!...Kt.

-- K-K-K-Katie (yarnspinnerkt@hotmail.com), April 24, 2001.

We just lost our young coyote we had near the horse ranch and I miss hem [or her]. Used to watch it hunt ground squirels, it never bothered the horses and the ranch dogs kept it a distance away.

They have plowed over about 60 miles and put up golf courses and fancy houses around us[ the ranch is surounded now]. ,Was walking my two dogs yesterday an the graded land were they are getting ready to put more houses and there were people running a pack [ 3] of there dogs by driving behind them, scared me as it was my border collie pup, my very old pitbull, and my 6 year old son and all I could think was what in the world would i be able to do if these dogs attacked? the people couldnt even get them to come back when they saw us and whiseled.luckly the dogs didnt spot us and we hot footed it back to the ranch. I will take the coyotes to the houses any day.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), April 24, 2001.

Over the course of some 10 or so years, I've had more than 12 coyote mix dogs and have watched many full blood coyotes in the wild,(in the El Paso TX area) They do run in packs, they can have ruffs around the neck. The neck ruff thins out in hot weather and often has black tipped hairs making it show up even more. They are crafty, so seeing only one would be more common, They will work together to kill larger animals or dogs, the size varies due to mixing with dogs and to diet (they will eat just about any thing; bugs, cats, dead stuff etc, My mixed dogs would chew soda pop cans open to lick the inside) Most wild canines, would kill dogs, or strangers of their own kind, females in heat may be accepted / bred if the females of the group don't run them off.

-- Thumper (slrldr@aol.com), April 25, 2001.

Here in deep South Texas in the Brush Country, coyotes do run in packs (or large extended family groups). During deer season, I see packs of 10 or more crossing the senderos (one at a time and at a lope). I do not shoot them because I enjoy watching them and listening to their "music", what a beautiful sound. I have never been threatened by them; generally, the first chance they notice me, they beat feet! The same, however, cannot be said about roaming feral or farm dogs. I have been "stalked" several times, and had to kill a huge dog that knew what I was. It may have been rabid; this was years ago and Texas has been trying to eradicate coyotes with bait dropped from airplanes for several years now. I will not walk around our ranch without at least a high power handgun on my belt; too many varmints around and I do not like taking too many chances.

-- jr guerra (jrguerra@boultinghouse.com), April 25, 2001.

Katie, just an answer to your ?,i have a 50/50 malamute red wolf hybrid and he is an ext.affectionate very docile animal but when givin the chance to run he does become a hunter.But at the same time is an excellent family pet.I don't recommend this kind of pet for everyone except people who know the nature of them.Apollo,was raised with a pitbull who he thinks is his brother,we live in FL.were there are alot of wild hog,cougers,etc.back in the woods,and we have 3 children that both dogs look after when outside so we feel a little more at ease knowing that they are well guarded,apollo was just bred to a beautiful black wolf,we are considering breeding the offspring back to our male pit,with the hopes of being a superior guard dog with extreme intelligence let you know how they turn out. Bill,Tampa FL.

-- bill conner (bill_conner@hotmail.com), July 11, 2001.