Horses and Flies (Horses)

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Hi Folks,

First, thanks to all of you that provided helpful and knowledgeable answers to my previous posts. It really helped me.

This will be the first summer season that we will have horses. They are on the pasture with free access to their barn. The fly problem starts to come up now. I am trying to find out the best way to fight them.

I read one time that you can buy sting-less wasps that will eat the fly larva - that sounded pretty natural to me. We have our 2 horses on two acres.

Any other good ways to fight off that pest? I feel so sorry for our horses standing out there covered in flies.

-- Bernd in NC (Bernd001@aol.com), April 09, 2001

Answers

by definition,, no wasp is stingless. Your referring to a parasitic wasp,, that looks for its favored prey to lay its eggs on,, Gardens Alive have them,, not sure where else

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), April 09, 2001.

The face flies seem to be one of the most irritating types for horses, something I didn't have up north and have had to learn to deal with the last three years here in Kentucky. Have tried any number of external fly sprays and wipes, none of which seem to work all that well ... the best protection seems to be those mesh fly masks that go on like a hood and cover the eyes.

-- SFM in KY (timberln@hyperaction.net), April 09, 2001.

Some horses that I take care of from time to time get powdered garlic (the kind you put in foods) in their feed to help repel the flies. Makes them taste bad I guess! Not sure if it works, but their owner swears it does. Worth a try!

-- Elizabeth (Lvidia66@aol.com), April 09, 2001.

I use a combination of masks and fly spray/lotion. I buy Absorbine Ultra Shield or Repel X and use it daily even though it says it will last for 2-3 days. We have a lot of gnats so I rub a small amount Gnat Away in their ears. I use Farnam Super Masks, they seem to last longer than the other brands.

I've heard very good things about fly predators, but I've never used them myself. I also know people that put garlic in the feed, but I'm not convinced it works.

If you decide to use a spray be sure to get up under their bellies, and underneath their jaws flies love to bite in those areas. Be sure to spray around a geldings sheath, and a mares udder (unless she's nursing) too.

Stacy Rohan in Windsor, NY--I'll be stocking up on flyspray soon.

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), April 09, 2001.


I read somewhere that a couple of Muscovy Ducks will take care of fly problems. They even will snap them off the legs of cattle. Just something I heard.

-- BB (mhjaj@mailcity.com), April 09, 2001.


There is a thread all about this in the archives, with many solutions listed.

If you want to get into the parastic wasps, Spaulding Labs sells them. Results can vary, depending on your situation and how diligent you are with manure pick up. They are 'stingless' in that they are so small that their pointy-parts can't penetrate human skin, nor are they interested in being around humans or anything sweet/rotted, like yellow jackets are. They're totally unannoying.

Rogo always suggests food grade DE (diatomaceous earth), and I am going to have my horses on that this summer, since I've been unhappy with feeding continual dewormers (Strongid C -- I refuse to use the fly larvacides. They're organophosphates.) because there isn't a whole lot known about long-term effects yet.

Use of the DE, the parasitic wasps, and some judicious flyspray are a big help. I tried the so-called 'fly boots' one year, that are plastic screening boots you velcro on their lower legs, but they still stamped so much that pretty soon they looked like odd Scrunchies around their ankles -- no use at all.

Some people at our barn use fly sheets in summer. My experience with that is that the expensive ones work well, the cheap ones work poorly and slip and slide off, possibly tangling the horse's legs. Any horse turned out with any of them on needs to have a good eye kept on them for trouble.

I do like fly masks for my horses. I think the ones I'm using are sold by Absorbine, that are a dark brown mist net that covers the horse's eyes and ears, and velcros on under the jaw. If you size them right, they don't interfere with the horse's eyes, altho a lot of horses in the pasture like to rip them off each other for the fun of it, and when they ruin a $14 mask, I get a bit irate. If your horses leave them alone, they're great for keeping fly bites and gnats out of the ears and eyes.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), April 09, 2001.


Forgot to add that none of my horses will eat their feed if it has been 'polluted' (in their opinion) with garlic. You can start them out with a tiny bit that they may eat under protest for a day or two, but as it is increased, they refuse the grain long before it does any good against flies. So I don't know if it works or not, the horses waste both the garlic powder and the grain.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), April 09, 2001.

We use the garlic powder, increasing it little by little in their grain. Also put apple cider vinegar in the water. This starts out just a little in each tank, probably about 2 cups in a 100 gallon tank. They are picky about anything that is different from normal. Increase a little at a time. Also used the ziploc bags with water hanging in the barn last year. Seemed to help a little. I bought the parasites, but didn't notice any change with them. With 6 horses, and all the manure they produce, I'm sure I'd need a lot more of the wasps than I bought to see a difference, tho. Still have to use a touch of the fly repellent, but not as much. Jan

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), April 09, 2001.

We use the garlic powder, increasing it little by little in their grain. Also put apple cider vinegar in the water. This starts out just a little in each tank, probably about 2 cups in a 100 gallon tank. They are picky about anything that is different from normal. Increase a little at a time. Also used the ziploc bags with water hanging in the barn last year. Seemed to help a little. I bought the parasites, but didn't notice any change with them. With 6 horses, and all the manure they produce, I'm sure I'd need a lot more of the wasps than I bought to see a difference, tho. Still have to use a touch of the fly repellent, but not as much. OH< FORGOT TO ADD: I put just a dash of corn oil in the grain and mix the garlic powder in, so they don't seem to mind it as much. Jan

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), April 09, 2001.

I also use the fly masks and Skin-so-soft since I have chemical problems. Makes her coat nice and shiny. Oh, I once saw a chicken pick a horsefly off my mare's leg and eat it. I'm going to try the DE this year.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), April 09, 2001.


Hi Julie,

Are the fly larvacides the salt block/fly control blocks? I won't use them either. I don't use Strongid C but that's just a personal choice. I use paste dewormers on a two month rotation, first Ivermectin, double dose Strongid P, and Quest.

What flyspray do you use? I'm always on the look out for something that works better than what I'm using.

I have an extremely picky older gelding, I've never tried the garlic but he won't even eat feed with corn oil in it. I tried nutritional yeast--he detested that. He tolerates a vitamin/mineral supplement (Minavite) barely. He loves Cortaflex tho. The other gelding and mare will eat anything you put in front of them!

Rogo-does DE have any taste? I don't know anything about DE, it helps with fly larva too?

Thanks for the help.

Stacy Rohan in Windsor, NY

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), April 10, 2001.


Our problem with the donkeys isn't flies, its gnats and mosiquitos. Well honestly I have no idea if the donkeys are bothered by the mosiquitos or not, but they are biting me out in the woods. The gnats do swarm their faces. Maria and Rosa are doing great. (They are resuce donks from the BLM land in the Mojave) I let them out of their front pasture each day, they love running in the big pasture/woods pen. The goats aren't quite sure about them. They all are together when I walk them into the woods, the donkeys get upset when we go places they can't fit through. I don't really have to worry at this point about the donkeys being to aggressive with the goats, if the donkeys get very near them they run off like deer! They have a short area in the fence to go back to their barn and pasture if they want to, so far they haven't come into the woods pen without me.

I love the Stongid C wormer. Actually the nicest donkey herd I have seen in my area is using this, and with just two it is very economical to use. I am very lucky with the two girls, anything I want to feed them is easily hidden in a bite of peanut butter sandwich, and they don't taste the garlic mixed in. The oddest thing with the donkeys is how my big ole guardian dog Morgan, is afraid of them, definetly not the other way around!

We start halter breaking soon. Marie will be a snap, Rosa will be a pain, I can already tell. Found a great trick for teaching them to lead with a longe line on the ground, attached to their halter in a round pen. You throw their treats on the ground, and as they step on the rope to reach the treats they learn that being tugged on the rope doesn't "hurt". I thought this was ingenious! (Remember I come from the less smart :) horse world!) I also have come to learn that I can eaisly trim their feet with much less trauma to everyone concerened than having a strange farrier out. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 10, 2001.


Hey Vicki,

Your donks sound great. That is an ingenious idea with the longe line and treats. They were right off the range? I know a couple that adopted 2 mustangs right off the range, it took them almost a year to get them ground trained, and almost two to get them saddle broke.

Stacy Rohan in Windsor, NY

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), April 10, 2001.


Stacy, go to blackbeautyranch.org it explains how they run their rescues, and their are lots of them around the country. Over at yahoogroups.com is a Donkey group with Vicki (their donkey guru) who has some great sites, she is the one with the rope trick, and is always their to help! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 11, 2001.

Hi Stacy -- the feed through fly larvicide that our barn manager was trying to get everyone on was a granular that went into the feed of each horse individually. I'm forgetting what brand she was using, but I saw some of the information on it running in The Horse, and Michael Plumb's Horse Journal, started reading on it, and decided that I didn't want to use that. On one of the other threads on this site discussing BSE, it was reported that there may be a link between the organophosphates and BSE.

I'd be cautious of any free-feed combination salt and larvicide blocks -- how do you know how much any animal is getting? I have one mare that hardly touches salt (plain) ever, and another one who gobbles a 4 lb block in a couple weeks. Maybe it wouldn't be bad for the one who doesn't use the block, but what would it be doing overdosing the one who inhales them? I have to dole out her salt as it is now and don't offer a free choice block of any sort in their communal areas.

I have used Strongid C for a number of years and I have not had any problems with my horses on it, but I have wondered what the long term effects might be (I tend to keep my personal horses until they die of old age in their 30's). My vet recommends it for stabling where you have a high influx of new horses, or too concentrated a number, or can't do rotational grazing. It doesn't do anything toward killing off flies or their larva, however.

I've used DE in protecting grains in storage from bugs, and I have eaten some of it in baked products where I didn't notice any taste. I've also used the grain in my dog's food and she doesn't seem to know the difference, and her stool analysis keeps coming back negative for worms, however, she doesn't roam (fenced yard) and isn't allowed to eat roadkill or whatever, so her exposure is limited.

I've kind of wondered about the recommendation for DE being used once a day whether that would have any long term reduction of flies because I'd think that the DE would go through the horse in one dose per day, and perhaps kill any worms in the digestive tract and intestine (but not any in the encysted in muscle or circulatory system, you still need chemical dewormers for those, in most instances, I would think, unless you could closely monitor your animal to initially get rid of parasites before they ever got on premises and continue it diligently and without new exposure ever after -- in a closed system, it is possible, I've done it, but not very easy in a case where you have new animals coming in, or aren't paying strict attention). Back on subject, I would think that dividing the recommended cup of DE per day per horse into two feedings would space the treatment out into more manure piles per day, and reduce the number of untreated manure piles. My horses pass manure generally about every two hours, so that's twelve piles per day.

As far as sprays go, I have used Tri=Tec for some years, but I am also nervous of the content of that. It works well and lasts well (and costs!), but I try to save it for really bad times when the flies are just horrid. I got Clac 86 that I intend to try this summer. It has gotten good high marks in independant testing (altho not as good this year -- no one knows why, not manufacturer, not testers). I have one mare who suffers badly from fly bites and gnats, and I have to go with the Tri-Tec for her, or her ears and ventral line are bitten to the point of dripping blood. Another is allergic to mosquito bites and comes in covered in welts when all the others show almost no reaction. I use Absorbine concentrated fly spray pretty regularly. I get it at the farm stores for about $9 a quart, and it makes 8 quarts when diluted. I used to use Wipe years ago, but it was so oily and attracted so much dirt (ours roll like bears in a wallow)that I gave it up.

One farrier I used to know claimed that mixing vinegar with windshield wiper fluid made a good flyspray. I was skeptical of using the wiper fluid on my horses, and one guy I knew used it and thought it was great -- until it wore off half an hour later.

If you've got chickens, by all means turn them loose on the manure areas! They do a great job helping with pest management.



-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), April 11, 2001.



Oh, I forgot! Bernd, if you look further down the postings under 'Pests', there are about 3 or 4 different threads there about flies and their control.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), April 11, 2001.

Julie,

Have you tried Gold Nugget Gnat Away? It comes in a lotion and a cream (I think, only 2 cups of coffee this morning) and it works very well. I use it on the "midline", and in their ears. None of mine will tolerate the fly masks with ears, I end up picking up their "clothes" flymasks, tailbags, shoes etc... in the pasture like I do the kids in the house. I don't believe I've ever tried TriTec, I'll pick some up. I have to apply any flyspray with rubber gloves cuz I react to it. Clac will work but you have to apply it against the grain of the hair and pretty much saturate the horse nose to tail. It's a horsie deodorant rather than a repellent.

I used to subscribe to Horse Journal. I really like it, I'll have to resubscribe. It's hard to pick what's going to work from all the horsie stuff that's out there--especially supplements, blankets, and sheets. I feed Cortaflx because of HJ--it works great. Major improvement in every horse I've used it on.

Thanks Julie!

Stacy Rohan in Windsor, NY

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), April 11, 2001.


I don't know if this will be much help or not. I've tried every kind of fly stuff on the market I've tried home made remedies from dawn dish soap to cedar oil. The flies get immuned to everything eventually. I think the best way is to switch chemical sprays often to trick them buggers! One thing I tried last summer to go along with my fly sprays was I boiled a bunch of cedar with cloves of garlic and I strained it and sprayed it on my horses it did help.

-- Michelle (phalvers@ccisd.k12.mi.us), April 12, 2001.

== I've kind of wondered about the recommendation for DE being used once a day whether that would have any long term reduction of flies because I'd think that the DE would go through the horse in one dose per day ==

Food grade DE will not deworm if not fed daily. Many free feed it. My Mammoth, hog and steer eat it from a bucket. I mix it into the chook feed (5% of dry feed) You can't overdose DE, but if the proper amount isn't fed, it won't do any good. Hand fed, horses get one cup (5 ounces) per day.

The fly population is cut down due to the fly larvae being killed in the manure from the DE. If the larvae can't hatch, they can't make more flies.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), April 13, 2001.


What are fly predators?

http://www.spalding-labs.com/slwafp.htm

Here's just a few of the companies that sell fly predators:

http://www.spalding-labs.com/

http://www.buglogical.com/fly_parasites.shtml

http://www.biopest.com/products/fly.shtml

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), April 13, 2001.


What is DE ?

-- Robin Dalrymple (RobinDalrymple@CompuServe.com), July 24, 2001.

Our farrier just told my husband this solution this morning. Not sure if it works, but anything is worth a shot. Mix equal parts of baby oil with mint mouthwash and spray just like a fly spray.

If anyone tries this, let us know how it works!

-- Lisa in WI (lehman16@vbe.com), July 24, 2001.


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