On this forum, and on some other forums, there have been negative comments made on how the Amish treat their horses. I am going through an experience that seems to shed some light on this.

Last year, we bought a 16 year old morgan mare from a neighbor based on her calmness around children and pets and her ability to pick her way through the tonka toys and because she was a very smart horse. I did not have her vetted like smart people would.

Unfortunately, this horse has gone through years of neglect and abuse. She is structurally unsound, things that could have been corrected when she was young, but wasn't, she has foundered so many times she flat feet that are very tender, and she is a heel walker. She was being ridden with a bad fitting saddle by a drunk who ran her until she about dropped and had many pinched nerves in her whithers that caused some of her muscles to atrophy, and she has arthritis.

My farrier has done wonders with her feet, but there is only so much he can do for an older horse without crippling her. She needs plenty of exercise to keep her moving at all, but is too stumbly for adults to ride. Gravel roads hurt her feet too much. She has only a few years before she is too dangerous for even the kids to ride.

What is the future for this horse? I could never send her to auction. She would only bring about $300 from a meat buyer and I could not do that to one of my horses. I cannot afford to keep a pasture pet, I thought about leasing her to young children as a lesson horse, but she doesn't do well with change. After talking to the vet and the farrier the only solution we came up with is to train her to a harness so she can pull a cart or carriage for her last years.

You see, a wheeled carriage with bars help stabilize a horse, they are mostly kept on paved surfaces which is much easier for them to walk on if they have flat feet or cannot lift them very high. She will continue to get the exercise she needs without risking falling with a rider.

I think this is why people see old broken down Amish horses and come to the wrong conclusions. The Amish folks that I know would be more interested in prolonging the usefulness of their animals rather than actively abusing them. This fits with our shared frugalness in all things.

Does anybody have any other alternatives for a middle aged horse that cannot be ridden under saddle too much longer?

-- Laura Senderhauf (gsend@hotmail.com), January 12, 2001

Answers

Laura, I do not think that you will ever find anyone who loves and respects the Old Order Amish as I do, and I can tell you numerous stories of horse abuse that I have witnessed myself; horses tied to a post with less than a foot to move their heads for 6 hours in the hot sun and no water (auction day)...a single horse pulling a buggy uphill with eight (yes, eight) teenagers hanging in and outside the buggy..the horse all covered with thick sweat and literally gasping for breath...a horse who had fallen in the field due to exhaustion and two men kicking it in the head in order to get it on it's feet...horses kept in totally dark barns for DAYS on end because "if you let them into the pasture you'll never catch them when it's time to go"....I reported each of these things to the local authorities, and the Amish received fines. None of MY friends did these things, yet these were common occurances within the community. My Amish friends response to hearing about these instances was "stupid to overwork a good horse"..no outrage, just a comment on stupidity. This is not to say that your observations are incorrect..just to clarify what I mentioned on an earlier thread.....by and large,by what I have witnessed myself, the Amish are not kind to their horses. As far as your middle-aged horse, send it to Alabama to retire..we'd be happy to care for it. God bless.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 12, 2001.

Thank you Leslie. I would call those things abusive, too. I've only been in one Amish community in Northern Montana and they took great pride in their horses.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), January 12, 2001.

Around here the Amish are know has slaughter house friends,the horses are worked beyond hope. I am friends w/ a few and have often asked why the horses are treated this way, all he said was look how you treat your car. Never did figure that one out because the truck is an 1980 and still works but his horses would never make it that long. New Holland is a sale barn in Pa the WORST place for a horse to end up,either on the way to the slaughter house or worst an Amish farm.I do not know if their ways are falling apart or their pride is ,I am sure its not all Amish but the ones I know just do not get it. Real quick...I was offered a Belgian mare for free from an Amish man well when I got there the kindest thing I could do was get my gun and shot her,her front leg was broken and just hanging,I asked how it had it happened and was told she fellw/ a hay wagon rolled down a hill and flipped....2 weeks ago! Why they did not shot her is beyond me....

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), January 12, 2001.

I'm not a horse person so I can't really give you any advice or opinions in that area. I just wanted to comment on the other posts. It seems we tend to idolize the amish because they take care of themselves and stick to themselves. Separate and apart and not dependent on the government, something we'd all like to be to an extent. We forget that they are people just like us. If you are not taught compassion for weak and or not as intelligent you just use those people or animals. They have failed in being good stewards in this area. I for one often look on the amish as how I'd like to be. Thanks for opening my eyes to the fact that no one is perfect and we have no business putting anyone up on pedestal thinking because they have one part right they have it all. I have afriend raised amish in Lancaster cty, PA, who left when she was 20 yrs. old and went to live with an Indian tribe in Canada to teach them to read and translate the Bible into their language. She never went back she said they are not the good people everyone thinks they are. I just figured she was saying that because of her decision to leave. I guess this horse story really gets to me because I was always taught to be kind to animals. My mom used to tell the story of my grandfather taking a whip away froma man who was beating his horse that was down on it's front knees in the road and beating the man with it. You take care of those less fortunate than yourself and you take care of animals. nuf said.

-- Artie Ann Karns (rokarns@arkansas.net), January 12, 2001.

My folks kept Lightening, my stepdads old horse, in the pen with the medium sized calves. (2 bottles a day or less) She seemed to help keep critters that were a little too interested in the calves at bay. Kind of like keeping geese with the kids. (little goats) She may have been old and a bit lame but her hind hooves still hurt when they colided with flesh.

-- Marty (Mrs.Puck@Excite.com), January 12, 2001.

I'm sure that the attitude held by the amish is the attitude most folks had when horses were the main transportation. The amish haven't changed in a long time so their attitudes probably haven't changed either. I don't agree with mistreating any animal but now people over romanticise horses. I know people with pastures full of horses that rarely are rode and never perform useful work. Seems like a waste to me. Laura unfortunately once your horse gets in bad enough shape the kindest thing may be to put it down. Not much help I know but I hate to see an animal in pain.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), January 12, 2001.

I think if you start working her on paved surfaces, you are likely to see a whole new crop of troubles popping up. I have been around a lot of working horses that have to stand on pavement and they are almost all down in the heels (but then, they're also using the same farrier and I don't think much of him). If you're going to drive, look for hard packed dirt trails. If the gravel is hurting your horse's feet, perhaps she is already stone bruised and shouldn't be walking on this. Cure for stone bruise is quartering on soft materials until it heals.

Think about trying Easy Boots on her. They fit over the whole foot and exclude rocks and such. One woman I know has to use those on her horse who has chronically tender feet and it helps him tremendously. Cost no more than regular shoes in the long run. Or you can try glue- on shoes, they are making some with extra shock cushioning now.

You might also let your vet know that you are looking for a retirement home for the old girl. I searched and searched for a nice docile old horse as a companion for my old horse and couldn't find one that worked out, altho I offered vet references, lifetime care, cremation/burial expenses and the whole nine yards. At 16 she's still comparatively young, altho the mileage may be high on her. Perhaps someone is looking for a babysitter for weanlings, my old mares were great at comforting the foals and putting up with shenanigans and still teaching them all about being a horse in a herd.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), January 12, 2001.

I may want to try the Easy Boots. I'll ask my farrier what he thinks. Right now Dusty is wearing trailers front and back and I'm not sure they would fit in an Easy Boot. I don't know if I can teach her to walk in them as she gets to toe dragging quite a bit, too.

Retirement is not really an option for her. Both the vet and farrier want her exercised at least every other day. Over feeding or underworking would be a death sentence to her as the exercise keeps her circulation going and her joints moving. This is what keeps her from going lame. As I have arthritis too, I understand the need to keep moving and working. The two of them tell me that with foam pads in her shoes and pulling a cart we should be able to get almost ten more years of companionship and service out of her.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), January 13, 2001.

Laura, I'm glad you found another option. It is not uncommon for horse owners to request their animals be put down when they themselves die out of fear for where the animal may end up. If things don't work out and you have not found a retirement home for your horse that you are comfortable with, putting down is an option. As for horses in a field not being used(someone posted the comment), I'd rather see them living as nature intended, roaming fields, than abused or overworked. A peaceful existance is better than one of exhausting, bone shattering labor.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), January 13, 2001.

She isn't that old, you could breed her. Mares in foal need lots of exersize also. Besides, a foal might put a little sparkle in her (someone for her to be proud of). Foals are also full of energy & tend to keep momma active. It also gives you a horse to train that would be sound (especially if you can train mother & son/daughter to pull together as a team). I don't know if you have any other horses, but if you don't, the baby would also give her some company when she isn't busy.

Just a thought

animalfarms

-- animalfarms (jwlewis@indy.net), January 13, 2001.

I would think that the weight of a foal would be very hard on a horse with arthritis.

I don't know how much you want to spend on her, Laura, but what about some of the arthritis supplements? Julie knows better than I what works and where to get it and what it costs -- let one of us know if you want more info.

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 13, 2001.

I've had very good luck with a joint supplement called Cortaflex- I like the liquid better than the powder. I have my daughter's 21 year old barrel horse on it, while he wasn't lame or even off, I felt at his age he could use the help. I'm free leasing a 16 year old Quarter horse with mild navicular this year for my daughter to use in rail classes and he receives Cortaflex also. I also use BL Solution (Buteless) as a mild pain killer. It works as well as Bute (IMHO) but without the complication of ulcers.

Stacy Rohan--->it was a gorgeous day in Upstate NY!!

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), January 13, 2001.

Stacy's suggestion on the Bute Less is a really good one. Bute isn't something for long term usage, and I've weaned my arthritic 21 year old gelding off of it entirely. He does mild riding still, to keep him a little limber. Cortaflex is generally a good supplement, and I would discuss getting her joints injected with hyluronic acid with your vet -- if he/she doesn't offer it as a service, find a vet that does do it, it has made a world of difference in so many horses with very advanced arthritis that it is worth looking into. Some types of arthritis, such as calcium deposits within the joints don't respond to this, but you will probably need joint x-rays of the affected joints to know where the problem is and if it is treatable with HA. Increasing intake of vitamin C (Esther C is advised to prevent stomach ulcers rather than cheap synthetic ascorbic acid) has also been useful in arthritis cases.

Albert used to be on glucososamine and chrondroitin sulfate along with Legend IM injections, and now he is doing fine on the hyluronic acid injections every so often (we're now up to 18 months between) and nothing else. Neoprene hock boots in winter help his particular problem as well, but this year has been so mild he hasn't needed them.

If your horse is fit with trailers, an egg bar shoe may work out and still allow use of an Easy Boot. Or, you can just ask your farrier to put in pads and exclude stones. The trick of course is to make sure that you've got the foot entirely clean and healthy before putting the pad on (some people like to put in a sterile packing with something like black salve on it for drawing power and healing as a temporary thing, and the packing maintains natural pressure on the frog when the horse walks and stimulates the blood circulation in the foot, whichmight be a consideration since your horse has had laminitis so often. Has she actually been diagnosed as foundered? That is, with loss of blood vessels in the feet? Slephnir also makes a new shoe with removeable shock absorbers that fit right into the shoe, and with the addition of a pad, that is another way to go. Ask your farrier about these various things and if they would help her out.

I'd be really leery of breeding her with her feet this bad. Discuss that in depth with your vet too, because of how much weight this will put onto her feet, she may not even be able to carry to term.

I have seen some articles dealing with a horse with crushed withers and nerve damage and what kind of therapy they used on her...I remember massage therapy was part of it, but not all the particulars. I will try and find it again. You can always lounge your horse or ground-drive for her excercise too and take some wear and tear off. I'm a little confused that you say you can't afford a pasture pet -- what work was the horse doing for you before this that makes her unaffordable now? Long after my geriatrics were unable to be ridden, they were still exceptionally good companions and conversationalists. I learned a wealth about horses from them even to the day that they died.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), January 13, 2001.

Dusty gets regular chiropractic adjustments, chiropractic massage and stretching and flexing exercises. She doesn't seem to be in too much pain except when she walks on gravel. She is getting NextLevel arthritis supplement. Our farrier is a corrective shoeing specialist and even goes on rides with us to see her walk. She is on a 5 week shoeing cycle.

Breeding her is probably not a good idea, the pre breeding vetting, stud fee and transportation costs would far outweigh the worth of the foal, even if Dusty were breedable. That crooked back leg looks as if foaling would be quite dangerous for her.

By cannot afford a pasture pet is mostly because Dusty cannot afford to be idle. Most retired horses have their shoes pulled and sent to pasture. Without the exercise of several miles a week, she would cripple up and have to be put down. She is too mentally alert and hates to be left behind on horse outings. She literally tears up the field if she gets left. She loves the activities, she is just very unstable on her legs.

She is my daughter's horse that she is doing 4-H with this year. We also use Dusty for that calm "herd reinforcement" for training the younger horses. She builds confidence in the insecure young riders that are scared of their own horses.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), January 14, 2001.

I am so glad to hear all the things you're doing for her. Obviously, you're looking into all the angles. A friend of mine, who has had National Champion Arabian trail horses got a little bit old for getting in the saddle herself, and her wonderful old mare was getting on in years as well, so she trained Pico in harness and had her in competetive trail driving, which wasn't too much different than what Pico had already been doing, and once again they excelled. I don't know if you have anything like that avilable in 4-H, but it is an obstacle class and not for speed.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), January 14, 2001.

Yes, Julie. If my daughter wants to continue showing her in 4-H, it will be in the driving class. This will be her first and last year in Western Pleasure, but she has a few years where she will excel in trailhorse competition. I expect after that, she will excel in driving harness.

My 10 year old daughter saved her money and bought this horse herself and has such a deep commitment to her. She contributes her allowance and gift money for stuff to help her horse. She has not been protected from the realities of a horse's life and is making sensible decisions when faced with the future of her horse. It is Rose who is pushing for creative solutions and is eager to teach her horse something new.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), January 14, 2001.

Laura, I have morgans and can tell you that normally they have excellent feet and legs, but are prone to founder because they are super easy keepers. Many people want to grain & feed them heavy & that can ruin a morgan faster than anything. My mare raises her foals on nothing more than quality hay, no grain or suppliments. Never been underweight or had a weak baby. Sounds like your mare has had a rough time of it. Your vet & shoer might try adding pads to her shoes, esp the front feet. She sounds very tender footed. Has she had any rotation in coffin bone due to the founder? Driving might be easier on her, but having a horse go down & flip a cart can be dangerous. If you'd like to discuss morgans please feel free to email me privately. If she is registered I may be able to help you find out more about her.

-- elle (eagle-quest@juno.com), January 15, 2001.

I, too, like many of you, have an older horse. Billy will be 30 this year - I have owned him since he was 21. For most of that time we have only been able to ride him lightly due to his heaves. The past 4 or so years he has been retired except for the occasional pony ride for my nieces (wich he loves) due to nerve damage ion the hind end (complications from injury..whole other story!). Anyhow, Billy gets along fine on his own, but is sensitive to the weight of an adult - sounds similar to the mare in the original question. He keeps fit by just living outside 24/7. In the winter, he's blanketed, and he has access to a huge run-in shed at all times. Another thing that has really helped him is the supplement MSM. He takes it for his heaves mostly, but it's anti-inflamatory properties work well with joint and tissue problems. It really helps the arthritis. Billy has to deal with tender feet, also, as his hooves don't grow as quickly or as nicely as they used to. I have found that a biotin supplement and Easy Boots help a lot. One more thing... I have heard of a product from Cheval Limited (not 100%sure of the company name) called something like Lame-A-Way. It is supposed to help foundered horses greatly. Maybe that could help you out. Good luck... and remember, these older horses are the best!

-- Jenn Adams (mehorselover@usa.net), January 17, 2001.