Anybody got any idea on how to turn methanol (wood alcohol) back into methane (natural gas)?

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Hi all, the thread on the high price of propane got me to thinking about how to work around the problem. Its relatively easy to convert trees or natural gas into methanol, its also a good way to store a lot of natural gas since the methanol is considerably more dense than even liquified natural gas (and you dont have to worry about the pressure).

Whats got me stumped though is how to convert it back into methane, I did a web search but didnt find anything. It'd be really nice to be able to convert the trees on my land into natural gas that I can use to cook with, heat the house and fire up a hot water heater. Kind of like liquifying my trees and not having to deal with a messy wood stove, or expensive propane.

At any rate..... Any ideas?

PS; Hey Hoot, hows the generator coming along?

Thanks

Dave

-- Dave (Ak) (daveh@ecosse.net), January 08, 2001

Answers

Dave: I think making methanol is kinda complicated, moreso than ethanol. As far as making methane from methanol the thot that first comes to mind is vaporizing it.

I recall an article in an old TMEN about a french forester who was making methane and heat from wood slivers from a specially designed chipper. The pile was 12' in diameter and 12' tall. There was a core approx 6' in diameter. Around the core was wound 3/4" polypipe. He'd circulate water thru the pipe to keep the temps down to 98 degrees F, ideal for methane production. He'd store the methane in a series of innertubes. The water that was circulated he used for space heating. He'd produce about 50 cubic feet of methane per day.

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), January 08, 2001.


Dave! Well, I'm inna heepa trouble boy! LOL. While working on the genset Friday-pull'n the rope to start it sumpthang happened! No, it didn't start-I was adjusting the regulator to richen up the propane. I'ts a little lean and somewhat difficult to start. Well anyhow, I ended up pulling my breastbone apart at the old incision place. I'm now totally held tegether by "bale'n waar". Hope it aint fusty none tho. I think I may have found a supplier with cheaper motors but the only way I'm gonna offer'm now is with ELECTRIC START! I have to start'm to adjust the ones that burn propane and I jest ain't gonna pull no rope no more. Lil Dumplin dun'n told me jest how hits' gonna be! Don't fergit--she's a REDHEADED WOMAN! I do love'r a bunch and thank Almighty God that He sent'r my way about 36 years ago! I'll keep ya'll posted on these gensets etc. We're also designing [in my old haid] a new woodburning boiler that sets outside -- within reach of most people-moneywise, that is. Matt. 24:44

-- old hoot gibson from ILLINOIS! (hoot@pcinetwork.com), January 08, 2001.

Hoot, be careful, dang it!! No use coming apart over the little things, especially when there must be lots of folks willing to pull ropes for you, you being the kind of guy you are!

Dave, Mother Earth News put out a book on alternative energy sources in 1976 called "Handbook of Homemade Power." It has quite an extensive section (around 80 pages) on building low-tech methane generators using things like innertubes and 55 gallon drums. They even had a miniature one you could make in a 1-gallon jar just to see how it works. The generators in the book mostly use poop for fuel, though. Bookfinder.com lists several copies available for $2.34 to $31.00. Mine is the 1980 edition. Good luck!

-- Laura Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), January 08, 2001.


John, I remember that article, too, though not as many details as you do!

Hoot, I'm with L'il Dumpling -- no more pulling ropes! Bad enough everything on the farm is held together with baling wire and duct tape, don't need the people in the same shape!! (Though I guess better wire than no wire when needed, eh?) Your generators sound like a good idea, and I know your motives are good, but can't you find a partner to work with, you know, you supply the brains and he supplies the brawn? Sure glad you've got L'il Dumpling to keep you in line!!!

Dave, if you find the information you are looking for, my husband is sure to want to see it (sigh), but just working on logic, here, isn't it likely that the total energy costs of what you are talking about doing will be higher than is reasonable for the output? Not to mention that gas is explosive, and I would prefer messy wood over explosive gas in my house any day. Have you asked your wife how she feels about this? (Now you have the woman's point of view! LOL!!!)

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), January 08, 2001.


Thanks all, I'll have to check out the book and see how it works, Hoot, take care of yourself! I'll be leaving Iceland in a month and a half and going back to Anchorage (whoo-hoo!!!!!) so I'll be out of touch for a few months after that, I'll try to keep in touch though.

Dave

-- Dave (Ak) (daveh@ecosse.net), January 09, 2001.



HOOT!!!!! Will you quit fussing around with that dad-burn generator before it kills you! Good for Lil Dumplin, that's what we women folk are for - y'all menfolk would die mighty early if we weren't there to keep y'all in one piece!

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), January 10, 2001.

I stumbled upon your postings while searching for information on making methanol for auto fuel. I just wanted to reply to hoots post about the propane powered generators. how about running them on whiskey? yes even cars will run on wiskey around 185% works well I was told. ethanol (whiskey) doesnt work as well as methanol, but as I am finding out, whiskey is much easier to make. all you need is a still, which is easy to make, yeast, and some sort of sugar. the sugar can come from sugar beats, sugar cane, or a starchy plant. the starchy plant will require an enzyme to convert the starch into sugars. If you have a farm you can grow the plants you need for the fuel you use! obviously some research needs to be done to find the best plants to grow in your climate that have the most sugars or starches. I am trying to become as independant from the oil companies as I can and that means alcohol. check out the new methanol fuel cells that convert methanol into electricity. the only problem here is that the only cost efective way to produce methanol to my knowledge is with methane or flared natural gas(oil product) unless you can figure out how to make methane from wood or cow pucky. good luck!

-- paul westphal (pcwest@aol.com), March 08, 2001.

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