I'm going to be building a new house in the spring. I was going to remodel the one I just bought but this thing is so drafty and cold I swear you could hang meat in here! I am going to build my foundation out of stone. I was thinking about building with cordwood masonry above that until a friend told me that sometimes there are problems with wood shrinkage allowing drafts in the home. So I am considering straw bale instead. This will be timber framed. My main question is if I go with the straw bale would it be best to put wood siding on the outside to help keep the straw dry? I live in south central Missouri and it is wet/humid here. Thanks

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), December 24, 2000

Answers

If your wood is well cured and of good quality, there should not be much of a shrinkage problem.Cut and cure in covered place 3 years.

You will get some surface cracks,which can be caulked with clear caulk to keep out thre rain.. Perhaps that was the problem?

We went to look at a cordwood structure to get ideas for ourselves.They explained this to us.

Rob Roy(I hope that's the name) has a book on cordwood that is helpful.

Not too long ago there also was a thread on straw bale in humid climate,but I don't remember the name.

If our archives were better organized,we would be able to find it under straw bale house,wouldn't we.Too bad we won't be having that done.Sorry about that. The thought came up.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 24, 2000.

3yrs??!!! Shoot I can't even buy firewood that has been seasoned a good 5 months! Yes I have the book by Rob Roy. I need to build this house next year....I can't take another winter in my current house.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), December 24, 2000.

Amanda, I don't want to throw cold water on your idea, however I would sugest you consider: 1) Are you sure straw bales will stand up to your climate and not mildew (kinda smells bad). Guess you could soak in some kind of mold repellent? 2) If you use wood siding, you will need something to nail to, like a 2x4 frame. Why not just a frame house. 3) Why not stucco on the outside, it is a whole lot cheaper. 4) I don't see why cordwood would shrin any more than logs. The wood should bre seasoned no matter. Best of luck in your plans.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), December 24, 2000.

Most homes I have read about being constructed of Straw Bale were covered with stuco on the outside and plaster on the inside walls. Here in Florida it is also very humid/damp, they use stuco on a lot of homes so it must be a fairly good barrier agaisnt the dampness. I love the idea of Straw Bale construction, it sounds like a great way for the owner/builder to go. As a child I built many a fort in our hay barn ad I also played with Lego building blocks so I have some excperience!

-- Mark in NC Fla (deadgoatman@webtv.net), December 24, 2000.

May I suggest Nebraska StrawBale - Habib Gonzales (B.C. Canada) is about to come out to South Africa to teach for a month or so, his email is habibg@netidea.com - no need for timber frame and it is load bearing! Your other good option is Vertical Log Consruction - no need to wait for curing time, there is less than 1% shrinkage... cut the tree down, groove it freehand with a small chainsaw,dip treat with Boron (non-toxic) spline it and put it up. Diameter shrinkage is accom., by the spline and the chinking. If you want more info, contact me personally and I will happily walk you through it over email (I have been teaching it for 5 and a half years)- gratis..

-- Jaco Scholz (jaco@loghomes.co.za), December 24, 2000.

My opinion on using siding over strawbales is that it would be a no no. I can visualize vermine getting into the bales for any seed that might be in them. If stuccoed properly ouside, and stuccoed or plastered inside that shouldn't be a problem.

One question I have--even if kept dry from baling to using, won't the straw in the bales settle? I've handled a lot of straw and wheat hay bales and even when baled very tightly, the strings or wires always seem to get looser over time. Of course they are stored outside or in a barn loft.

Good luck with whatever building method you use.

-- Notforprint (Not@thekeyboard.com), December 24, 2000.

Amanda, I think given the choice between the two, if I didn't have to buy the cord wood, I would go with the cordwood and just be prepared to do some caulking and re-stucco down the roads. IMHO

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 24, 2000.

Amanda wait dont panic. my old house is 100 years old and yes it not square in every corner. but let me tell you about it. the first thing i did was take all the old plaster and lath then i put in modern wireing and fixtures. then i renued all the plumbing then i put 4inches insutation in the wall and 8 inches under the floor and 12 inches blown in in the ceiling.this took about a year but i payed as i went. still need windows and siding for looks. but its so easy to heat and cool. i cant run my wood stove unless its zero or below. and i only spent about 3000.oo i love it.Bob in se.ks.

-- Bob Condry (bobco@hit.net), December 24, 2000.

Amanda, I'm new to the forum but have been reading Countryside for several years. Please consider following Bob Condry's advice! Insulate your existing house. I live in Central Mich. And it's cold up here--5 degrees last night! My house is nearly 100 yrs. old. But it's well insulated. Obviously, insulation is always cheaper than building new. You also don't need building permits, etc. You only pay for insulation once (and it's not very expensive)--and it keeps saving you money and heat (and much cooler in the summer, too). Isulate the heck out of that place! Good luck and Happy Holidays!

Mike in Mich.

-- Mike D. (mdockus@yahoo.com), December 24, 2000.

I'm going to describe my current house so ya'll know what I'm dealing with. This is about an early 70's model mobile home that has been 'built over'. The part that actually covers the mobile home includes about an 800 sq ft room that is a shell. This was built several years ago and has 3 sky lights in it. The roof was never properly finished so of course it leaked around the sky lights. This caused the roof to warp some. All the wiring needs to be redone(the fellow put 3 lights and 8 outlets on 1 10 amp breaker!). The add on room has a vaulted ceiling....all the walls, ceiling and over the whole top of the mobile home need to be insulated. I have a lovely stock of hard wood siding that also needs to be applied. Part of the decking in the roof really needs to be torn out and redone. Not a square of level surface in the whole thing. Of course I didn't realise this because I was walking over 16 acres that I could actually afford(house was secondary to me...wish it had been primary)! Would ya'll still finish out this place instead of building new?

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), December 24, 2000.

Amanda, did you see Mike Oehler's article in the current issue of Countryside? I've read his book twice, and plan to buy it, and when we build, we'll be building underground using his ideas. It's inexpensive, warm, attractive, well-ventilated -- with proper attention to waterproofing and drainage, suitable for almost any climate. He does have a web site, too, if you want to look him up. And to answer your last question, if I was in your place, I would be building!! Not trying to fix that place up -- just think of it as you are camping out for a while until you get your house built. And *maybe* when you are done, you *might* be able to sell the old mobile home to someone else who wants to do the same thing!!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), December 24, 2000.

Go with the underground house. Ease of maintenance, low utility bills. Do it yourself and save. Lynn and I are looking at the possibility of 1 of 3 diferent properties , 12 to 15 acres to build our "dreamcave " on.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), December 24, 2000.

I hope you have done searches on the net for information on straw- bale and cord-wood construction. There is a lot of stuff out there. Also go to your favorite book site and search for publications. Another construction method is cob (mud and straw) which also has been published. Good luck. I like the idea of alternative building methods, even tho I opted for stick-built. There is a strawbuilt house in a town near me, altho I've never been in it. I live in the Mid-Willamette Valley in Oregon, and it dosen't get much wetter than here. Also, if I might say so here, Countryside is not the only back to the homestead mag - Mother Earth News has a lot of good info also.

-- Maggie's Farm (elemon@peacehealth.org), December 24, 2000.

Hey, we built a sauna out of cordwood masonry and it was quite easy. Make sure you use either white pine or cedar - softwoods are much less likely than hardwoods to crack and check.

If you do get cracks and checks - and our sauna deals with drastic temp changes inside and outand has no problem - all you have to do is give it a squirt with a caulk gun and it's done. Truth, is, most cracks don't go all the way through anyway. The likelihood of a crack going through an entire foot-long piece is unlikely.

You do have to have lumber dried at least a year. If you live close to a lumber yard, you might ask them if you could use their kiln for kiln-dried lumber, and put your wood rounds in that. The drier the better. (You'll need to talk to them anyway, because they have the bulk sawdust that you'll need to mix up with the mortar.)

However - and this is a big however - for something as big as a house, I'd strongly suggest timber framing the corners and edges. You can stack the cordwood in an overlapping way for corners, but putting up a simple timber frame and then filling it in is much more stable. Timber framing can happen with uncut longs, even. And you can't cordwood masonry a roof or roof joists, so you'd better figure out how you're doing that - against, timber framing works well.

I love cordwood masonry - it's beautiful, easy and cheap, and nobody gets hurt from 8' logs falling on them.

Raven

-- Raven Kaldera (cauldronfarm@hotmail.com), December 25, 2000.

If I remember correctly your in the area of West plains Mo, right? Unless you have a cut away hill in that area building an underground home would pretty much require dynamite! There's a lot of limestone with a light cover of soil there. Amanda, I don't know about strawbale there, but there is school of building that applies a theory of geologically specific architecture. Basically the theory is that the best materials with which to build are right where you are located. If you think about it sure seems to be true.

Cord wood construction is a lot more time intensive than the strawbale method, but straw bale worries me even though they seem to have all of the moisture problems adressed in their literature. Good luck with your decision, and I hope you can manage to stay (get?) warm there!!!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), December 25, 2000.

Amanda, My wife and I just moved into the 1100 sq ft strawbale house that we built. We are very happy with it. As for vermin, there should be no food for them in the straw as it has been harvested and also the straw bales are covered with stucco inside and out. The only concern that I had was water damage but if you have a good overhang that problem is eliminated. We put an 8 foot porch on 3 sides and a 3 foot overhang on the east side.

Yes, you do get some settling but that is taken care of by pre compressing the walls prior to the stucco.

The R factor with a sb house is fantastic. somewhere around 40 to 50 as opposed to 17 to 20 in stick houses. We have been very warm even during this last cold snap and heating with a wood cook stove. (wind chill one night was -15)

Good luck. Doug

-- Doug in KY (toadshutes@yahoo.com), December 25, 2000.

Amanda, you don't have to use rounds. Split rounds season alot faster. If you don't like the look it can be covered with siding. annette

-- annette (j_a_henry@yahoo.com), December 26, 2000.

Amanda-For cordwood,you also can look for standing dead or windfalls that are aged.The organization that built the cordwood structure in KY used wind thrown oak that had been down three years.Bad ice storm brought a bunch down one year.Cured on the stump.

Doug in KY-giving tours? Sounds like a great project.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 26, 2000.

Doug what a splendid idea! Everyone is welcome to come tour my place providing that you bring a hammer, work gloves, and a strong back! The dead fall is a good idea. I have actually been thinking about that one myself. My neighbor had his place logged off it looks like last year or therabouts. Seein as how when they piled the slash they managed to rip up one of my fences and put about half the pile on my side I think I can talk him into letting me use some of it. I've just about decided to go with cordwood construction instead of straw bale. I just need to get creative about finding seasoned wood. However the way this winter is going seasoned wood may be hard to find....pretty soon I imagine peoples wood supplies will start running low. I appreciate everyone that has responded. I've gotten ideas from everyones replies. Thanks Amanda

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), December 26, 2000.

Well. Do you have a supply of cheap straw? not hay. If yes, stack it up around your old place the roof too. cover with plactic tarps. that will get you through the winter. Next go to the library and get inter- library loans on all the books you can. Plan to build to code. codes are there for a reason, build to them. I like straw bail, timber frame, log, and cord wood. After seeing what an underground house did in east Alaska -70 degrees. I've desided to go under. Choise whats best for you to WORK with and go for it. when your finished YOU will love it. OH yea re-cycle the straw into you new garden. and keep bees Greg

-- Greg Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), December 29, 2000.

AMANDA....THERE WOULD BE NO PROBLEM WITH THE MOISTURE.YOUR EMC IS ACCEPTABLE FOR CORDWOOD[EQUILIBRIUM MOISTURE CONTENT]THIS IS REFLECTED INTO THE AMOUNT OF MOISTURE YOUR LOGS WOULD CONTAIN WHEN AIR DRIED. WOOD ROTS ABOVE 19% MOISTURE CONTENT.YOUR LOGS WOULD BE BELOW THAT LEVEL.BUILD OFF THE GROUND 24" ,HAVE A LARGE OVERHAMG,BUILD A WRAP AROUND PORCH,HAVE RAIN GUTTERS TO STOP SPLASHING ETC. IF BUILT RIGHT CORDWOOD CAN BE VERY COMFORTABLE.BUT IF YOU DON`T SEASON THE LOGS PROPERLY,PICK THE RIGHT WOOD,DON`T CURE THE MORTAR PROPERLY.THESE LEED TO AIR / WATER PENETRATION PROBLEMS.

IF YOU WANT TO LEARN HOW TO BUILD CORDWOOD PROPERLY COME VISIT MY BOARD.I HAVE 27 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE WITH CORDWOOD AND 36 YEARS WITH CONVENTIONAL LOG BUILDING.I WAS LICENSED TO TEACH CORDWOOD BACK IN 1979.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cordwood

I ALSO HAVE A CORDWOOD NEWBEE PAGE WHERE YOU CAN LEARN THE BASICS.AFTER READING THIS YOU COULD JUDGE A CORDWOOD BUILDING AND THE BUILDER.YOU COULD EVEN JUDGE AN EXPERTS WQORK AND SEE IF HE MADE ANY MISTAKES.

http://maxpages.com/cordwood

DROP BY MY BOARD AND SAY HELLO! CORDially YOURS CORDWOODGUY

-- cordwoodguy (cordwoodguy@n2teaching.com), June 22, 2001.