We have some new neighbors (moved in 6 mo. ago) who let their 3 dogs run loose 2 Labs and and BC. One Lab is old and no problem, but the other Lab is bordering on dangerous, and the BC seems to follow his lead. We have lots of livestock, horses, sheep, goats, poultry, etc. as well as cats & dogs. Our horses will kill dogs, but all our other animals are defenseless. At first I ran the dogs home and asked the people to keep them home, explaining the problems. They kept them home for awhile, but now the dogs are loose daily, and we get them over here daily. The one big Lab has growled at our kids, and has chased people walking on the road. This last week another neighbor called and said the dog was chasing our chickens and ducks. Yesterday it happened again. Do I play nice and give the neighbors another warning, or just shoot, shovel and shut-up? I am afraid to leave our property now for fear this dog will kill my goats or sheep.

-- Lenette (kigervixen@webtv.net), December 21, 2000

Answers

SSS-We have lived "in the country" for the past 12 years. Always remember, unleashed is unloved. We have been this route many times, it seems more and more people are moving to "the country" to escape the law enforced "in town". With this comes trouble. We are leaving our 5 acres in Lake county Florida because of this. It all started with the neighbors dogs!!!!Good luck wish you the best, and remember, you have no idea of what happened to those nice dogs!

-- kevlin (kevlindigital@netscape.net), December 21, 2000.

Lenette, don't just shoot the dogs. Get over there with your dander up and tell the neighbors that if they don't keep the dogs home the dogs will be treated as predators and that's all there is to it. Get mad and tell them in no uncertain terms. Dogs that HAVE NOT killed but are scaring you don't yet deserve the death penalty for their owners lack of responsibility. I understand what you're saying, but please try to resolve it with the owners or they will just get other ogs and do the same thing with them. Do you really want to kill inumerable dogs?

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), December 21, 2000.

If doreen's answer doesn't work,salt load in the shotgun.Won't kill them but lets them remember.They now need to be afraid to come on to your property.

Anyway you can suggest fencing the yard to the neighbors? Offer to help maybe?

Our dogs chase off any other dogs or coyotes,so we just turn them loose if one strolls too close.But we live way back in, and don't have a big problem with dogs.

Oh yeah, if someones dog is there in the middle of the night,call them! we did that once. I figured if I was up bc of their dog, they were going to be up. Took care of the problem.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 21, 2000.

You have already warned them once, now just SSS. If they cared at all about their dogs they would be fenced. I have been down that road many times, I give one warning and only one. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 21, 2000.

It's kind of a dilemna. If you warn them first, and they don't listen, so you shoot the dog, they know exactly who did it. Then you have neighbors who hate you and that can be a real problem. if you don't do anything, you risk having your livestock disturbed ( even just chasing can make them miscarry if they are heavily pregnant). Is there any kind of a law about this for your area? If there is, you and all your other neighbors could constantly call the sheriff and complain until something gets done about it. My tendency is to just shoot a dog if the people have been warned and disregard it, and then I feel nervous and upset about it. If you shoot it, make sure it's on your place, preferably close to your livestock.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), December 21, 2000.

I vote for SSS. Dog, what dog?

-- melina b. (goatgalmjb1@hotmail.com), December 21, 2000.

I can understand your dilema. I had a very nice turkey hen that had to be put down because a neighbors dog attacked her. I however don't believe in killing the dogs. Right or wrong its not their fault that the owners are careless and not in control of their animals. Its the owners that should be punished. Most counties have ordinances even in the country about animals allowed to run at will. If you and other neighbors would call the sheriffs dept or animal enforcement agency they would soon get the idea and either take the dogs from these people or at the very least make them keep them kenneled or otherwise confined to their property. I would hate to see anything happen to your animals but I still don't think it would be right to SSS. I have used salt pellets in buckshot or loud firecrackers to scare away unwanted dogs on our property also. Anything to let them know that this is not a pleasant place to be in. Good luck.

-- Barb (WILDETMR@YAHOO.COM), December 21, 2000.

We've used a BB gun on unwanted dogs. There are alot of people who feel if they live in the country their dogs should be able to go anywhere they want. We've even had dogs come up on our porch and attack our dog. All said and done you may not have any other option than to SSS. If the one dog is dangerous I would much rather shoot a it than take a chance of it hurting or killing one of my children or livestock.

-- lisa liddle (lisasnat@bellsouth.net), December 21, 2000.

Thanks for all the answers. I've decided to try to be nice first, then SSS if necessary. I agree it's not the dog's fault, but then again, the dog has no conscience or self control. So if the owner won't contain it, I don't have much choice. While I hate to shoot any dog, I hate even worse to see my goats or sheep ripped to shreds. It's not their fault either, and I can't be here 24 hours a day to protect them. I have a 2 yr. old granddaughter who plays in the yard, and I will not wait till a dog tears into her before I do something. What I did for now was to call the sheriff's dept. this afternoon. The dispatcher (woman city cop) told me I'd be the one in trouble if I shot the dog (Not true, we have good laws here, and apparently I know more about the law than she does). Finally got to talk to a deputy and he will contact the people today and tell them the dog will be shot the next time it comes on our property. And he told me to shoot it before it hurts one of the kids. He had no sympathy for mean dogs. For those of you who are animal lovers, let me tell you I am too - I HATE it when someone forces me to shoot their dog, and I would only shoot as a last resort, but this dog is not just a harmless stray, he is a danger to my family and livestock. Next year we are re-fencing our entire place (hopefully dog proof) and are getting two Great Pyrs as livestock guard dogs, but I can't wait till then to stop this dog. After today, he gets no more chances.

-- Lenette (kigervixen@webtv.net), December 21, 2000.

i HAVE TO GO ALONG WITH ITS NOT THE DOGS FAULT SHOOT THE NEIGHBOR ! cALL THE NEIGHBOR AND IF THAT DOES NO GOOD CALL THE AUTHORITIES .yOU MIGHT WANT TO LET THEM KNOW THEY WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE DONE {IN DOLLARS AND SENSE}

-- Patty (fodfarms@slic.com), December 21, 2000.

I have NO idea how this happened, but we used to have problems with dogs harrassing our sheep, turkeys, chickens, whatever. About 5 years ago I came home to find a dog terrorizing our chickens, and unwilling to back off. I went in the house and hid. Next day, wonder of wonders, a dog about 1/2 mile away became 3- legged! We have not had a problem since, except we have noted that fewer people walk our road. It may be because they have sensitive ears, given that our rifle range is home to at least a hundred or more rounds opf "high-powered" explosions each month. Then again, maybe they think we're unfriendly or smell bad! We are actually very nice and compassionate folks. Maybe it's the "Don't Tread On Me" flag. Good Heavens! So hard to plumb the depths of the liberal mind! (My yardstick is not calibrated in millimeters!) GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), December 21, 2000.

Brad, is that the Culpeper Minute Men flag?

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), December 21, 2000.

I forgot to mention that these neighbors HAVE a fenced yard! But they leave the dogs out of it. Go figure.

-- Lenette (kigervixen@webtv.net), December 21, 2000.

Our neighbors dog used to come chase our horses, the first time I went next door, second time I called them and got the whole sob story 'poor dog can't be tied all the time' and I asked they just wait til the horses were in at night, the third time I called animal control because the last time that thing growled at me and bared teeth, raised hair on the back and all, it hasn't been let loose since.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), December 21, 2000.

I have problems with my neighbor. She thought it was funny that her dog chases my chickens. My husband thinks it's funny when he see me chasing the dogs (yes, they got another one) with a broom, the neighbor gets mad. Another neighbor is mad about the dogs coming on their place also. They had their dog trained to "go" in only one spot in the yard. Since the other dogs came, she goes everywhere and they have to clean not only theirs but the others. I said we should get a paintball gun with different colors for different neighbors.

I was actually thinking of using Exlax. Maybe if the dogs mess in the house, she'll realize it only happens when her dogs are loose.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), December 21, 2000.

Oh, Dee, I liked your ideas--paintball AND Ex-Lax! Gave me a good laugh too!

I consider myself an animal lover. I don't like them to be shot, but if the dog is mean, there isn't much else YOU can do (what the owner COULD do is something entirely different). If the dog was friendly, I would recommend "disappearing" it to the humane society.

And for Brad, I wish you would quit laying all ills/evils at the door of liberals. Though I consider myself a moderate, I think you would probably consider me a liberal. And I will tell you, my animals DO NOT get to roam where they will. They are kept on my property. If one were to escape, I certainly would want a call to let me know! And I would make every effort to make sure it didn't happen again. In MY experience, the type of people who let their animals roam around at will are those who think that any rules or laws don't apply to THEM. Willful selfishness can be found in the entire political spectrum, as can kindness and consideration! I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with your posts about half & half, but the liberal bashing irks me.

And because of all the freedom of speech declarations around here recently, I wish to point out that I am free to request this of Brad, and he is free to ignore me.

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), December 21, 2000.

I like the paintball idea,I would send a copy of those name matches what color and let them see how many are unhappy w/ the dog.Then if worst comes to worst and the dogs comes up missing you wont be the only suspect.

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), December 21, 2000.

Hey Brad- here's the sign I had on our gate NODIS Tresspassers'll be Percekuted by 2 Mungrel Honds That don't like STRANGERS N' a 2 barelshotgun Loded fer Troble. Durn if I ain't gitten' tard of all the heck raisen on my place!!!

Got it at Southern States and laughed heartily when I saw it.

Believe it or not, the neighbors were not as amused.They said it was offensive, and ran in to the county attorney office to complain.I am not making it up.Guess no one ever informed them rednecks of a person's first ammendment rights.Hit too close to home,I guess.

Anyway feel free to print it off!

And some would think me liberal.And others wouldn't.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 21, 2000.

I can appreciate the fact that the other folks that posted before me don't really want the dogs shot. However these dogs are a real danger. Domestic dogs that run loose will start running in a pack with other dogs. When I was little a pack of 'house pets' killed a toddler in the childs yard. Tore him to shreds! In my own experience we had neighbors move in next door with 2 big chows, these dogs promptly decided my place was their territory too. I couldn't go to the barn without a gun(the things knew what a gun was and wouldn't bother me if I had one...hmm wonder why...previous neighbors maybe?). These dogs put me up a tree several times when I forgot my gun. The police were even involved in this one because the neighbors didn't like me carrying a shotgun when I went to MY garden. I walked out one morning and the dogs had busted through a pretty substantially built chicken pen to kill over 50 chickens(that I had raised from day old and they were just starting to lay). I had been over to the neighbors house repeatedly begging them to restrain their dogs. That morning I went over and informed them I was gonna sue for the cost of the chickens(I had evidence their dogs did it....of course I did fudge a bit on the worth of the chickens :o). Finally at the threat of them being out about $500 they got rid of the dogs. Another problem I had with a pack of house pet was when I came out one morning and 5 dogs had my milk cow down on her knees...one had her nose..one on each ear...one on her back and one had her tail. Had they gotten her all the way down they would have killed her. I shot each and every one of those dogs...not with rock salt either. I find a 30-06 works well. I am a good shot and the dogs don't suffer. I now have a policy that if people didn't want their dogs dead they would keep them home. I keep my dogs penned at all times. I will not risk my, my childrens or my stocks safety so someones pet can 'roam free'.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), December 21, 2000.

I have had the experience of losing half my flock of Rhode Island Reds, which I had raised from 1 day old chicks to laying hens,to a pair of Malamutes that roamed our neighborhood. Both dogs wore collars with their registered name and owners info so I would repeatedly call to tell them that their dogs were at my home. This would during the day and at that time the dogs would just be checking the chickens out...note that these dogs were quite socialable and friendly but I realized the POTENTIAL menace and tried to avert disaster as I always tend to think in terms of prevention of a problem and you don't actually have to face it because you prepared. I would always leave a POLITE message on those folks answering machine but never got an actual response. UNTIL approximately 2:00am one night that is!!! I work a midnight shift and as a result I am accustomed to being up in the wee hours...this one night was no exception except that I was doing some of my writing research instead of the "at-work" job.I had put about 6 of my hens into a portable coop/cage to move around on my garden as a sort of chicken tractor(yes I have the book!!)...about 2:00am was when I heard the most awful racket and my chickens carrying-on...I went out on the deck and saw those two Malamutes dragging that cage all over my garden! I must say that I did not hesitate to arm myself and cause those dogs to boot-and-scoot!!!Someone in the neighborhood called the law which came out to the county to investigate. I told them right quick that I had been polite all spring but now I was out half my flock and the dragging of the cage all over my garden had destroyed my greenbeans...as far as I was concerned this represented my family' sustenance and I was done with being polite. I was informed by the sheriff's dept to call them first but they did admit that unless they personally saw the dogs then there wasn't anything they could do...besides my feeling is by the time they finally come out to where I live then of course they aren't going to see the dogs actually commiting the crime. So I was under the frame of mind that a carcass can provide the necessary proof. I lost half my laying flock and all of my greenbean rows. I don't plan on it happening again!!This has been long and I apologize for that but I feel that if you have been patient and made your polite requests/pleas then it might be time to take action.The "I didn't know my dogs were a problem" can easily be "I don't know where your dogs might be" and besides remember what the sheriff told me about proof!!! I do love animals,have quite a herd/menagerie of them,but I make every attempt at being a responsible animal owner and appreciate others who are as well.But animals are governed by instincts not reasoning in the way that people are.Once an animals kills,it is going to do so again.These dogs did return a few nights later and killed one more hen and critically injured another that had to be put down.These were confined hens!! Can you imagine the damage done if they weren't!? If others won't be responsible for their animals at least I can be responsible to mine!!!

-- Tammy S.South (w-feather40@webtv.net), December 22, 2000.

If dogs are causing damage or are threatening, there is nothing you can do. But if one just comes by I am not going to shoot it. There have been occassions where my dogs have gone out of their boundaries and I sure wouldn't want someone to shoot them because my fence failed! Haven't any of you who seem to reccommend shoot on site, ever had a dog or livestock break out?

I came home last night at 8pm to find that my wether had gotten out of the cattle panel and taken out the electric fence from my other goat pen as well. If I lived on a smaller property they would have been at the neighbors bushes, I'd bet. If they just shot them I would be TERRIFICALLY teed off!

Granted the people Lenette is talking about have a fence and don't seem to care to keep the dogs in there, but when people are irresponsible with animals if you don't tell them flat out and face to face and their dogs disappear, they will just get more dogs and you will have to deal with them as well. I have seen that happen more than once. I had a neighbor who let their dog run and he got hit. Within a week there was another dog and he ran as well and got hit inside of a year. These people had a fenced back yard but let the dogs in the front. Why? I haven't the slightest idea. Maybe they had some kind of lottery going to see how long the dogs would last...who knows.

When you have exhausted your options then you have to shoot. I employ the 3 strikes and you're out philosophy to dogs and people alike. I've never had to shoot either.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), December 22, 2000.

The grandmother of a friend (80+)lives in the country and takes walks every day. A new neighbor moves in with three medium to large dogs. You guessed it. These dogs followed her one day and in a less populated spot literally shredded her, no need to go into details. These dogs maneuvered her, circled her with two in front barking while one was quiet and moved up from behind... We know this because she survived. More than a year has passed and nothing has been done, this near Austin in the Texas Hill Country.

-- Jerry (neljer@txcyber.com), December 22, 2000.

UPDATE: I was sitting here this morning checking my e-mail and saw ANOTHER dog come under my fence into the barnyard. Went to go check and it turned out there were 2, both BC's that I hadn't seen before. They started going after my ducks so I turned and ran for the house to get a rifle, when I saw the sheriff's truck coming up the road. By the time he reached our place the 3 problem dogs from across the street showed up so I had 5 dogs in my yard by then. He chased all the dogs home (the 2 extra's came from down the road) and went to talk to the neighbor that owns the 3 dogs. She told him the dogs had torn a hole in the fence the night before and had "just gotten out" that morning. He wasn't buying it and told her he knew the dogs had been a long term problem to several neighbors and he was advising us all to shoot on sight from now on. Also told her he was going to come pick up the dogs and hit her with some heavy fines the next time he had a complaint. So, hopefully they will get the message. The deputy stopped by here afterwards and told me he was really concerned about the dogs getting my livestock, and to not hesitate to shoot if they came over again. He had just been on a call where 2 goats were killed by a neighbors dog, and now was headed out to catch a wolf (yes, purebred, not hybrid) that was chasing horses. What is wrong with people anyway???

Doreen, I agree with you about not shooting every loose dog. I have always been sickened by this, altho I do understand why people do it. I can usually tell right quick by the dog's body language whether he's just passing through or has mischief in mind. But I have many rancher friends who cannot sit around babysitting their stock 24/7, and try to figure out which dog will turn out to be a problem. I doubt I could shoot a dog that wasn't actively chasing livestock or threatening my family, but once they do that, they're history. And if this morning is an example of what's to come, with everyone just letting their dogs run, I may have to start shooting dogs indiscriminately. I get so angry that the people who own the dogs don't give a rip and I have to feel bad about shooting a dog. And yes, I would like to take it out on the owners rather than the dogs, but that isn't possible.

-- Lenette (kigervixen@webtv.net), December 22, 2000.

It is difficult to come to the right answer when it concerns animals. Someone elses dogs (our neighbors) are not like wild animals that endanger our livestock. They have a human element involved that will come looking for them.

I believe that you have to do what you feel right in your heart. If you are going to warn the owners, then DO NOT SSS but if you feel that you have already warned them and they have obviously forgotten then you can proceed with plan B and just plead the fifth. That is what I would do.

I believe that 1) animals are a responsibility of their owners and 2) Domestic dogs should never be allowed to run free on other peoples property.

If I could call the pound I would and make life as inconvenient for them as possible without raising their suspicion. That can be very effective as well. Good Luck

Chris

-- Chris Kania (wtp5@tcsn.net), December 22, 2000.

If as they say you need proof, then trap the dog or dogs and have the police come and pick them up. They have to handle them and keep them under watch for so many days at the owners expense. Check with the health department and see if they handle the dog issue. I have two oversized havaheart traps for dogs. But they are special made and cost quite a bit. But if the law has to keep picking them up and your neighbor has to keep paying the bill, well you get the idea. Besides dogs are so easy to trap.

-- Nick (wildheart@ekyol.com), December 22, 2000.

Our dog is chained 24/7, except for when we bring her on to the closed in back porch for really bad weather. She occaisionally gets off the chain either by slipping her collar or breaking something. She has killed some of our own hens. When she gets loose she does a tour of the neighborhood and comes home. I call the people whom I know have chickens or other small livestock and let them know she got loose and if there was any damage done to let us know and we would pay or replace. I've also let them know they may shoot her if she's loose. We've tried hard to keep her fenced and chained but she manages to get loose on occaision regardless. We've considered taking her to the pound but haven't been able to bring ourselves to do it. She was gotten free from the paper at about 2 1/2 to 3 years of age and have had her almost 5 years. She was running loose when we got her and has some badly ingrained habits though she is housebroken. She is sweet, very good with the kids, but has no self control or discipline. She's never bitten anyone, just plays rough. She is "soft-mouthed", will not play tug of war with a rag. Anybody want her????

Whenever we get a new dog (as a puppy) we will introduced it to the chickens at an earlier age and let them scare it silly. I've heard it said the best way to train a dog to leave chickens alone is to let it meet a hen with chicks as a puppy.

One more thing....have also heard that tying a dead chicken to the perpetrator and leaving it there till it rots off will cure said perp. from going after chickens.

-- Heather (heathergorden@hotmail.com), December 22, 2000.

Unfortunately, Christmas being very close, I am without time and must deter my defense. My basic belief is that we must protect what we cherish, whether it be spouse, offspring, or other lifeforms entrusted to our care by the Big Guy! Those who are more self- centered or more self-important will likely incur our wrath, and be less than enamored of my position. For this, I do not apologize. GL and Merry Christmas!!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), December 22, 2000.

I have had this kind of problem in the past with my neighbors. They move to the country and let the dogs run free. Once in broad daylight I heard my chickens raising a ruckus and ran down to the pen and found my neighbor (who is a deputy sheriff in another county) St. Bernard in the pen. The dog had killed almost all my hens. I knew the dog belonged to this neighbor and went down to their house and confronted him with the facts. I told him that his dog was in chicken pen and had killed my chickens. He denied it was his dog. I then told him "I guess you won't mind my shooting him then" and turned around and left. The guy hopped our joint fence and beat me back to the chicken house. Last thing I saw that day was the dog being dragged home. Needless to say the dog has been penned ever since.

Other times I haven't been so "lucky". One neighbor had a pit bull that he let run loose. After several attempts at getting him to chain the dog, the dog killed one of my pregnant pygmies. I chased the dog down the hill, across my riding arena, and over a fence right up to the neighbor's porch. There's the dog with blood all over him and the owner is (1) denying it is his dog, (2) that the dog didn't kill anything. I told the neighbor he owed me $500 for the goat(s) and called the local sheriff's office. They came out, saw the dog, and gave the man a ticket. All in all, the court case ended up costing him (1) one dog - he took it to the pound, $500 for damages to me, and a $500 fine for letting his dog run loose (pits are considered "dangerous dogs" here along with Rotties, Dobies, and German Shepherds.

We have too many neighbors who think their FIFI won't hurt anything.

Good luck with your problem, (btw, after getting a Great Pyr, I haven't had a dog problem in three years!)

Cindy

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), December 23, 2000.

I would check the local laws on shooting neighbors dogs, call the local authorities, dog warden, police whatever, don't get into a leagal situation with neighbors. Tell them that they can expect to pay 3 time the value of any stock that the dogs kill. Here whaere I am you can legally shoot dogs for just chasing stock, I have cautioned all my neighbors about there dogs and lost some potential friends but I have not lost any animals. From time to time I touch off a round of 12Ga. or a 30/30 if I even see them near my pastures. Then of course the is SSS, the last resort.

-- Hendo (OR) (redgate@echoweb.net), December 24, 2000.

We adopted an adult female mutt this past summer. She was a sweet dog, yet she had a real wild instinct and I suspected she would kill livestock if she had the chance (we had no livestock). One day my husband let her out off the leash to accompany him as he cleaned junk out the barn. She took off through the neighbor's field. We had to drive through the fields in the dark to find her. Sure enough we found her smelling like a lambchop and not too far from her was a dead lamb. I was so upset. I called the neighbor and told him what happened and offered to pay for the lamb (he refused to accept money and was really nice about it). The next day we returned her to the SPCA. If she had been shot I would have been upset, but I also would have understood. I believe it was my fault she got out and killed that lamb. Amy

-- Amy (acook@in4web.com), December 25, 2000.

A good pellet gun is almost as strong as a 22 and doesnt make noise. When I was young and lived in tennessee we had to shoot a few dogs to save livestock... this was back in the 50s. Me thinks its better to stop it now befor u loose livestock. Have a safe New Years God Bless

-- Charles steen (xbeeman412@aol.com), December 27, 2000.

I have a huge problem with a neighbor's dog too. For a year and a half already. The police have picked it up 5 or 6 times and still no resolution. How do you "salt shot" a gun? And what kind of a gun do you need?

-- Iam (titia@canada.com), December 27, 2000.

Well! I wasn't gonna touch this thread but find myself "chompin at the bit" to do so. I've been accused of some thngs in the past about killin snakes--so here goes. Our neighbors who moved in about 2 years ago have now acquired several dogs. Beagles, rat terriers and a couple BIG bloodhounds. They seem to want those dogs runnin loose on my property [along with their horses] because I have farmland across the road from'm. The bloodhounds growled and almost attacked another neighbor last summer. The only thing that kept'm from it was his old blue heeler dog. Ole Blue took a terrible whuppin from both those big dogs while the neighbor had time to grab a big club and run'm off. I've found'm on my back porch on more than one occasion. They are "marked" dogs now--livin on borrowed time. I'll not wait until they attack lil dumplin, myself or any of my family. I hate to kill nice big dogs but they are still runnin loose and I'll not tolerate it at all. End of story--cept'n I'll NOT try and hide it from these people. My Swedish Mauser 6.5 X 55 will do the job quite nicely. hoot. Matt. 24:44

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), December 27, 2000.

I'm like Hoot, I wasn't gonna comment, but the more I read the madder I got.

Don't fool yourself folks. There is no such thing as a "nice dog" that runs loose and has the chance to pack up with other dogs.

Two years ago 4 so called nice friendly dogs hit my sheep barn in broad daylight. Killed (shredded is a better word)/injured 15 bred ewes,3 ram lambs, 4 ewe lambs and killed a 400 pound stud ram with one bite. Our foreman heard the noise and when he got to the barn he shot one, wounded one and the other two got caught in our parimeter fence. By the time the bleeding heart Animal Control showed up any chance of getting the dogs was gone. Animal Control in our area are not allowed to shoot attacking dogs. They can only trap or catch some other way so the dog can be taken to the pound and released back to the idiot owner who let them run loose in the first place.

One Animal Control Officer followed one of the dogs to the owners house, with me right behind. We saw the dog laying on the front poarch, but Animal Control did nothing. They are not allowed to go onto private property to catch a dog that has attacked. They asked the owner to turn the dog over. I about spun into orbit. We tried to trap the dogs, but the owners kept letting them out of the trap, which is illegal, and Animal Control did nothing still.

When I called the owner of the dog we shot, she threatened to sue me. That was laughable. I informed the out-of-town city twit that here in CA when a dog kills livestock the dog owner is responsible for the lost value of the animal(s). She was not convinced this was a big deal. She had no idea what purebred Suffolk sheep cost, so I told her Suffolks are to the sheep industry what Thoroughbreds are to the horse industry. That got her attention.

I'll stop ranting now. Any way, WE sued her and the other guy and settled. Sounds like a happy end doesn't it? NOT! On the way back from picking up our settlement check our foreman called. You got it, the two dogs Animal Control refused to pick up came back. 4 more dead and two more died about a week later. This time we didn't bother calling Animal Control until after we tracked down the dogs and shot them. We sued again and won again. And made more money in four months than we did in 20 years raising and showing sheep. It took the wind out of my sails about raising sheep though and I havn't replaced any of the animals I lost.

I did let it be known around our area that in CA if a dog even harrasses or worries an animal the owner is liable for damages, AND we would no longer call to inform you your dog was on our property, we would just shoot them.

After all this I guess my point is, when you want to protect what is yours you can't always afford to wait and see or to be nice and give the owner a chance to take care of the problem. If they were truely concerned they would keep their dogs on the inside of the fenced yard and not on the outside.

And since we're on the subject, I would suggest everyone contact their states/countys Dept. of Ag. and become familiar with your states/countys laws on protecting livestock. Knowing ahead what the laws were helped me in a very stressful situation. I knew that dog attacks were covered by the dog owners homeowners insurance, I kept notes about the deaths, injuries and what the Vet had to do and I also took pictures. Sounds kinda sick, but you go into crisis mode and having that information helps you do things without thinking.

I'm all for being neighborly, but you have to set limits. Don't wait until your animals are torn apart. By then it's too late.

-- jennifer (schwabauer@aol.com), December 28, 2000.

I agree with Jennifer, YOU must know the law because most of the time, the people who are supposed to ENFORCE it, don't even KNOW it ! I keep a photocopy of the laws in my truck at ALL times.

In reference to getting a Great Pyrennes. I have GP's and my friend raised them. (For stock work only !) Please, please, please talk with several people who own working GPs and have had them for a long time before you get one. It sounds as if your neighbors are too close for a GP. You may be better off with an Akbash or a Maremma. Do lots of research. We don't need ANOTHER unhappy dog in the world causing problems.

-- Monica (zpepenovia@excite.com), December 28, 2000.

Dogs are like teenagers alone they are fine in a group they have to show how tough they are.I have had indviduals that I knew well attack me when in a pack. I live in Il and at last count was over 1500 sss before I gave up and got out of sheep .Remember the sheep dont need a fence its for the dogs.And no I am not a animal hater coyotes and foxes are welcome here THEY DONT BOTHER ANYTHING!

-- LEW (pilot_34@hotmail.com), January 06, 2002.