How To Train A Colt

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Need some advice from you experienced horse trainers. My 14 yr. old daughter owns a 9 month old colt. The last few days he has been quite feisty and energetic, with nipping and rearing up. She is trying to spend time with him and train him slowly. Last night the stinker kept rearing up and biting and caught her lip with his hoof - causing 9 cosmetic stitches and a loose tooth. He does not listen to yanking on the halter rope. How do you guys discipline your colt? Next week we are going to geld him in hopes that helps. It doesn't help to tie him to a post. HELP! Thanks in advance!

-- Pat Mikul (pmikul@pcpros.net), December 20, 2000

Answers

Has your colt been inside a lot lately? If so, as much turnout as possible can help. Cold weather (I call it buck, buck, fart, fart weather) can up a young horse's (some older horses too-a 21 year old barrel horse comes to mind :)energy level. Was he imprinted at birth? How much has he been handled? You need to release as much of his pent up energy as possible then gently handle him. IMHO, 9 months is too young to longe (to much stress on young growing legs) but leading him, picking up his feet, grooming him, any kind of daily handling will help.

The gelding may help his behavior too.

Stacy Rohan in COLD, snowy Upstate NY.

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), December 20, 2000.


There's some advice regarding this over at horsecity.com, they have trainers who write articles and you can email questions. Look under 'training tips' in the column on the left side of the page. A little swat on the chest when he bites or strikes out would be most like how his mother and other horses would discipline him, it has to be quick and immediate. When you enter the stall(even before you open the door), raise one hand (as if to tell someone to stop) and establish your 'space'. Don't proceed any further until he backs off. This works with our 17H stud who came to us a biter, he isn't that bad anymore. He just tossess his head when I raise my hand and say "space, I want my space", but he does back up so I can enter the stall to feed him. I never let him crowd me. Establishing your space is important because once you do that, the horse will consider being able to move into your space a priviledge and reward for good behavior. Don't feed him treats by hand! Don't let him crowd you, if he starts pushing against you with his side, a quick jab to the barrel should get him to move over. Crowding eachother is how horses get others to move over so if he does that, he's bullying you. Another good site is www.ecis.com Does he have pasturemates to play with? He could just want to play with someone. Do his ears go flat back? I had a pony once that reared while ridden and my father solved that by breaking a water balloon over his head every time he reared. He stopped.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), December 20, 2000.

Our training guy here at American Paint Horse Association where I work says yanking on the lead will make him rear up and jump back. He suggests tieing him close to a sturdy post and just mess with him. Rub him all over and pet him and touch him all over his head and face and back and belly. Just pet him all over. Do this for a few minutes then just talk to him. It's like spending time with a puppy. Let him get used to being handled. Do this three or four times a day if your daughter has time. At least do it a couple of times for a few minutes each day. Be patient. And watch those hooves. Also, when you geld him, if you do, that will calm him down a lot too. But, of course, don't geld him until he has grown to his full height.

-- Joe (jcole@apha.com), December 20, 2000.

Yeah, she does pick up his feet, groom him and lead rope him. He also has another horse to play with in his fence, dogs to tease in the other fence and cows to nibble on - on the other side. He has been really gentle until recently! Just concerned about this not happening again! Want to nip this in the bud before it becomes a habit.

-- Pat (pmikul@pcpros.net), December 20, 2000.

why not geld him until he has reached his full height? will that stunt him? he's already 9 months old

-- Pat (pmikul@pcpros.net), December 20, 2000.


Oh, geld him now! In about 3-6 weeks, you'll see a change in attitude. I agree with several posts on training at a young age. Slow longeing is not too hard on them, but they are babies at that age and really don't have more than a 5 minute attention span, so don't over-do it! It has been my experience that just the basics of ground handling will do more good at this age than anything, the brushing, hoof cleaning, little this's & that's will pay off 100-fold in the future. There is sooooo much you can work on without even thinking of riding off into the sunset! Check out that horse site, check out the Pat Parelli and John Lyons websites. Ask, ask, ask other horse people in your area. Does your daughter belong to 4H? that could help. Good luck! debra in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), December 20, 2000.

I've been around horses over 50 years and presently work for the second largest horse organization in the world and everybody I've ever heard says don't geld a horse until he's topped out. That is, as tall as he's going to get. Usually about 14 to 16 months old.

He's a colt, a child. He's going to try and see what he can get away with and test you. Just be patient and spend a lot of time with him. That's the secret to a well trained horse, the amount of time you spend working with him.

And don't shake that halter rope in his face. He dosen't like that and will jump around and rear up when you do it. You have to be careful or you'll teach a colt that age bad habbits without meaning to.

Just work with him and unless he does that fighting all the time it's nothing to worry about. Your daughter should be careful around any horse but especially a colt like that.

-- Joe (jcole@apha.com), December 20, 2000.


Errrrr, make that about 12 to 14 months old. Sorry...

-- Joe (jcole@apha.com), December 20, 2000.

I can't agree with you on waiting to geld this colt. A horse gelded young will actually get an inch or two more height than one gelded late. It will probably improve his disposition as well.

Stacy Rohan

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), December 20, 2000.


I stand by my statement. 12 to 14 months.

-- Joe (jcole@apha.com), December 20, 2000.


Hi Pat, it's good to have you back but I'm sorry your daughter got hurt.

For training colts, I would recomend the Buck Brannaman books and videos. I watched his videos, read the Groundwork book and went to his clinic on starting colts and horsemanship. We are training horses by his method and I can say that it is the method that makes the most sense to me and I know first hand that it works.

I would say that at this young of age, your colt just needs to be a horse. He does need to learn space and respect of people, but teaching him to lead on a rope may just be too much for him. He is a horse, not a puppy. If you MUST lead, don't pull or shake the lead rope, but tap his rear lightly with a switch to drive him forward.

I think just haltering and unhaltering him is good. Getting him to follow without a lead rope would be nice and standing while you handle him is also nice, but save the rest until he is about two years old and then start the ground work. Just let him be a horse until then.

The rule of gelding I was taught was not about age, but about making sure you didn't geld until both testicles dropped. I think that would be the most important factor about gelding too young.

I rode my Missouri Foxtrotter for the first time last Sunday. She was fantastic even thought the other horses in the pen with us were running and bucking. She stayed calm and responsive. She's going to be an AWESOME horse when she's finished. All her handling and contact with people has been with Parelli games and Brannman methods. She's gone from open range to under saddle in two months with only working her 1 day a week. I let my 6 year old lead her around. My goal and requirement of all horses is they be safe for little kids to handle.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), December 20, 2000.


hey Laura,

I really like Buck Brannaman's way of starting colts. Have you ever read or been to a clinic with Mark Rashid? I like him as well. He was in NY last summer but I missed the clinic because of a required 4H show that my daughter attended.

Stacy Rohan in cold Upstate NY

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), December 20, 2000.


First thing to do is get him gelded! If he isn't and you intend to leave him a stallion for some reason the first thing you need to do is have a man handle him! A stallion can sense when a human is in season(I'm trying to be delicate here) and will respond accordingly. They will also not respect a woman. I grew up on a cattle ranch and I have gentled and broken my share of horses. Most 14 yr old girls have no business messing with a colt that size (I know at that age they are horse crazy but they don't have the weight or strength to handle a colt properly). If you don't break him from this bad behavior firmly and immediately he will be a problem horse. To help gentle one down that is behaving this way tie him up all day. Make sure and tie him fairly short (about 12 inches slack). This lets him work out his frustration against the post and not your arm. Of course water him several times a day and brushing him twice a day would help. You'll probably want to do this for a few weeks solid at first and then a couple of days a week after that. Teaches a young horse patience and that you are boss. A horse is a big powerful animal and you MUST be in control. I've seen some folks that were so horse nuts(believed all the story books they had read) that the horse was in control....they either got hurt or ended up selling the horse.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), December 20, 2000.

I'm just going to be frank about this. How many other colts has your daughter trained? How many other horses has she even started? How many have you trained? What workshops/clinics have you attended so far? I know there is a lot of the 'do it yourselfer' attitude on Countryside, but there ARE times when it's NOT a good situation to be learning in. One of the most dangerous situations is putting a young untrained horse together with a young untrained handler and assuming that they will learn together. Yes, there are many things you can learn and do yourself, and we all have to have a 'first' horse to train ourselves, but I just don't know any 14 year old girls who are up to the task. I've known ones handling and riding horses since they were 6 that I would not entrust a young horse to -- nor trust the young horse with the child.

Yanking on the lead rope is a predator move -- your horse is responding with a prey move. Have you read John Lyon's article on curing the 'upwardly mobile horse'? What have your results been with that? Or, he could just be fighting against what he perceives as a dominance struggle in his 'herd', which includes horses and humans. If you fight the horse on his level, you will lose every time, so you have to use psychology instead. I had trouble with one filly rearing and striking out and discovered that kids visiting the stable were 'playing' with her out in the pasture, and encouraging this behavior. I have seen other kids turn their horses into biters by hand feeding them, then running away and having the horse chase them down, only to reward this behavior by giving them a treat. The kids see this as 'play', the horse sees it as a reward for aggressive and dominant behavior. Others turn horses into biters when they are just bored and do dumb kid things like standing there blowing in the horse's face while it is trying to eat and they're bored watching the horse eat and want to 'play'. Horse's bodies are designed to stand up to another horse's hooves, but human ones aren't. Next time it could be her cheekbone that gets caved in, or her skull. It happens.

If you don't have experience in tying a horse up safely for the horse's sake, don't do it. This is not the same as just tying up the well trained saddle horse who has been down this path for 8 or ten years. Done wrong, you can break the horse's neck. Likewise, I don't feel that just having a man in charge is the answer -- I know a lot of them who aren't worth beans around horses if they don't know what they're doing. I've seen them (and women) wreck a few horses with ignorance.

For the sake of your daughter, I really strongly advise you to seek out a professional trainer NOW -- and if his testicles have dropped, it's time to geld!

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), December 20, 2000.


Pat, thanks for all the advice - I went to the barn last night and was around the colt and he was fine. maybe he got a wiff of the mares down the road - she hasn't ever trained a colt before - I will seek help from a professional trainer if he continues to misbehave - she does have high expectations for herself and does ALOT of reading about horses BUT she does not have the experience -I'll keep you posted!

-- Pat (pmikul@pcpros.net), December 21, 2000.


I agree that if the colt continues to be rowdy to get a professional trainer to work with him, but if you do hire a trainer, let your daughter work with the trainer. If she wants to be a horse woman that's the way to work it. Be sure that when you go looking for a trainer that he will let the girl work with him. If he dosen't agree, get another trainer. I think it's wonderful that your daughter wants to train her own colt. That's a great responsiblilty and will do her good. And she and the horse will have a great relationship.

By the way. Tell the girl to be especially wary of the colt's back feet. A big horse kicked my dad in the back one time and it almost killed him.

-- Joe (jcole@apha.com), December 21, 2000.


Pat - First off - I agree with gelding him ASAP. I had one colt that was so bad at 2 days old that the vet recommended gelding him at 4 months! I waited till he was 11 months - he grew to 16.1. In that interim, he needed a lot of firm handling, without abuse. But I had the experience behind me to do that. I would not let my daughter try training a colt until he was a little calmer and able to listen to reason. And I also agree that a 4-H group would probably be a real good idea. John Lyons and many others have videos out on training as well as books. Please monitor what your daughter does - my daughter was caught alongside her head by a colt who was too full of himself when she worked for a race stable. Still carries the scar.

-- Dianne (willow@config.com), December 21, 2000.

I have raised many, many colts of many different breeds and have never had one stunted by gelding early. (10 months, or in some cases younger) I'm talking about perhaps 200 horses, which makes for a good size sampling. I used to believe that it would stunt them, but experience tells me otherwise. I've also waited till they were 2-3 yrs. or more, and the only real difference is the ones gelded younger tend to not develop the heavier necks. I've also trained horses for many years, and although some colts can be left intact for a long time with no problems, any aggressive colt makes a quick trip to the vet. There is no reason to put up with an obnoxious stallion when you can have a much quieter gelding. A teenage girl, particularly one who is inexperienced, should NEVER be handling a stallion, even a young one. One more argument in favor of gelding, is that a colt just won't keep his mind on what he's supposed to be learning. It's always elsewhere. You have a potentially deadly situation on your hands. I would cut this colt ASAP. It will take at least 30 days usually to see a change in attitude, and up to 90 days for him to really calm down.

I also would advise seeking professional help. Please check out any trainer thoroughly, and be sure to get references. Many "trainers" don't have much more experience than your daughter, and some are very abusive. Some will take your money and let your horse stand in the stall 7 days a week. I don't mean to scare you away from trainers as there are many good ones - it just seems that the inexperienced people often find the not so good trainers. Try to find one who will let you come watch daily or at least frequently, and will spend some time showing your daughter how to work with the horse. We were always happy to have any owner come by at any time to watch and ask questions, and always worked with the owner the last week the horse was in training, at no extra charge. If you don't feel you can afford a trainer, or can't find a decent one nearby, I would recommend you get your daughter involved with a 4-H groups. Again, ask around and find one with a good, experienced leader with a good safety record.

-- Lenette (kigervixen@webtv.net), December 21, 2000.


Find a trainer, join the 4H, if you can, help out at the trainers in exchange for lessons, or help. Many need help with stalls and chores. I learned a great deal this way. Be careful choosing a trainer, some can be abusive and can cause more harm than good. You want RESPCT from your horse, NOT FEAR. DO WEAR A HELMET!! The cold weather makes them full of it even older horses. BE CAREFULL! As for women handling stallions, MANY DO! I have an Arabian stallion, who I've had since he was 1yr. I have friends who own Arabian stallions also. We are the ones who handle them daily and for breeding to mares. I would not want a stallion that has been man handled to show him who is the boss. That can make them dangerous!! I'd suggest GELDING your colt. As for the rearing and bitting. Mean business. A well timed smack does more than any beatings. Watch him at all times, stay out from in front of him,and behind him.To help keep him from REARING, USE A CHAIN over his nose, just a slight touch of it is all you need. MAKE SURE YOU RELEASE!! DON'T HANG ON TO IT, and NEVER,NEVER TIE HIM WITH IT DON'T!! FORGET THE HELMET!!

-- Pam Creighton (zpjc5_@hotmail.com), December 22, 2000.

I hadn't posted here since expecting a good result with a green child and green colt is a fairy tale. Reread Julie's post and just add my name to the bottom. Have her muck stalls at a trainers and learn. Gelding him is only half the problem, and Joe's statement about teaching him bad manners, is exactly what is going to happen.

Vicki, 25 years on a horse farm, (before Texas and goats) where Mom and Sis still show at the National Level.

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 22, 2000.


Hi,

I agree with Joe and Vicki, this is an accident waiting to happen. Get a good trainer to work with the colt and your daughter. I have taught riding for over twenty years, I would recommend finding a pro in your area to work with the pair. By pro, I don't necessarily mean the most high priced person or the person with the fanciest barn either, just a person (male/female) with a good reputation and good results (get references and then CHECK THEM OUT!)

Just my two cents, from someone who's done just about everything with horses since age nine (gosh that's 31 years now...)

good luck

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), December 23, 2000.


Found this site over at my Donkey group, I intend to use it on my donkeys, since I use a similar idea, that I do with my mouth for my dogs. Vicki

http://www.theclickercenter.com

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 03, 2001.


send me an e-mail but we start longing our colts and geldings at 8 months, it's just to get them resonsive, no running, but it really helps, we train 45-50 yearlings every year plus our racing stock.

Suzanne

Please e-mail me, I have lots of suggestions, just not enough time to post them now.

-- Suzanne (hugging_calves@yahoo.com), January 19, 2001.


If I where you I would try using a rope halter and lead. First off dont yank or pull or hit because he is just a little baby and he doesnt understand what you want. be gentle and understanding. Talk to him why you work and dont try forcing things like bridles or blankets that he doesnt want on. at about 1 year of age you can start making him put things on that he doesnt want on. Also i think that your daughter should read about some other training technics. wright me if it helps.

-- Lauren Amber Reznicek (lreznicek@hotmail.com), March 19, 2001.

Geld him know and learn how to take care of a young colt.

-- Kaylyn Reznicek (k_reznicek @hotmail.com), March 19, 2001.

I i am alicia, i am 15 yrs old. I have had 3 yrs expierience. My first horse was a 2yr old paint i was still just beggining to ride then and had to give him back to where i got him. Since then (about 2 yrs) i have helped in the rasing of 3 colts. They were not mine but i went out every day and drushed and fed them.

Now that we moved to fl and have our own place my mother an i want to adopt a PMU foal from naeric (regestry of good pmu farmers). I want to get a draft paint cross about 6mon) and i have down alot of reading on training and watched videos. I after reading some of the responces to pat which have been very helpful, i want to know if this is a bad idea? I have time a small quite place and i belong to a local horse club.

-- alicia (res0658t@gte.net), March 28, 2001.


Hi, I have also just bought a BIG stud colt. He is only a month old and really quiet. He is going to be weaned in July when he is 4 months old. so he would be able to be gelded until about January and that is a really bad time for me since it is still winter here in North Dakota! I won't be able to work with him as much since it will be below zero! Is this going to hurt our relationship and put him back in training?

-- Bri Fisher (brevicfish@hotmail.com), April 16, 2001.

Of the colts and fillies I've raised--but of course I almost lived in the pasture with them!--the real answer seems to be immediate handling at birth and daily from then on. You can't wait until they get old enough to break... Well you could, but why would you want to when you could lay your groundwork early? "Manhandling" a young colt as soon as it's born (not rough stuff, just holding, restraining-- dictating their movements etc,) establishes a seniority right of human over horse. You must never jerk a horses head, because they immediate reaction is shock and recoil. So you foster a hard-headed head jerker who is always expecting the worst as soon as you touch the lead rope... As always the hormone drives are outrageous!! Gelding is the one smartest thing you can do if you're having control problems. You don't need to stand a stud that you can't control. My last mare died last October, but when I got her (almost 1 yr. old and pregnant by a half-brother) I had some real kicking problems that I had to resort to using whip or rope to smack her rear when her legs popped up. Usually this was at feeding time when she was trying to play with me like she would her herd mates, or when it was nippy, or in spring when she started into heat for the first time. It didn't take long till she understood that she was not to lift her legs in the general proximity of a human... She still kicked up her heels but from a safe distance!

-- Donna M. Davis-Prusik (Seven9erkilo@knoxcomm.net), April 16, 2001.

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