Does anyone know a great Constitutional lawyer?

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Seriously. I have a business and am fighting with a VERY large entertainment company about requiring our EIN for a transaction less than $600 with no contract....They have a ton of money and I don't want any of it other than payment on our invoice. If it went to court and was won, the lawyer could keep all the money. It would be well worth proving the point.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), November 07, 2000

Answers

Although the phrase is an oxymoron, lol, I will check on it. You often have better luck with really small town lawyers about such things, you get to actually talk to them in person initially for no charge, by then you can usually get a feel of their leanings. We have had good luck using our small town lawyer (under 12,000 people) located in the county seat. Small is sometimes better, and definitely cheaper, especially for something like this. Good luck with it, Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), November 07, 2000.

Doreen, I wish you well in your battle. The only lawyer currently practicing that I know at all well is one of those creepy TV ad types. Didn't like him when we were teenagers, don't like him now. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), November 07, 2000.

William Jeferson Clinton, unless after his presidency they strip him of his license to practice.

-- Richard V. Miller (richard.miller@1st.net), November 08, 2000.

Ooohhh,Puhleeasse. WJC? he obviously has no regard for the Constitution. If I were interested in gutting it some more I might consider hiring ole Bill. EEyuck. Here's hoping he is disbarred!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), November 08, 2000.

It looks like the case is settled!!! I thought maybe some of you would be inteested in the arguement so here it is:

> > --- "Nicotra, Josh" wrote: > > Marcy... > > > > I gave the invoice and response to a request for a > a > > w-9 to our payables department. Perhaps you should > > speak with them about the w-9 issue? > > > > daniela.bonavita@umusic.com > > > > Thanks, > > > > Josh

Hey Josh, > > Just got fax from Larrakin.Do you know that your > payables never got ahold of me and also that they > have > ZERO responsibility to make sure that WE take care > of > our taxes. The entire statement you made to Kristen > regarding your payables department is bunk. If they > told you they spoke with me they lied. I called them > three times and tried to speak with Donna Ortiz she > NEVER returned my calls. Finally I spoke with > someone > other than Donna Ortiz and she said the invoice > wasn't > in the system. She told me to contact you which I > did > via email. You said to send another invoice...we've > already sent two. > > Listen, this is nothing peronal. We are standing on > our rights and people who push papers around for a > living are accustomed to folks just giving them > whatever info they want even when there is no legal > foundation for them asking for it. Perhaps if more > people knew the law they wouldn't be so willing to > give out private information when there is no > requirement of it. Then we wouldn't have to fight > tooth and nail when a payment is due. Which, by the > way, has only been a problem with your department > there. > > So, I guess my question to you is did you give the > invoice to them? If you did when? If you did not, > where do I send another copy of the invoice to get > this taken care of? > > Thank you for your prompt reply. I will forward > this > to Kristen as well. > > Have a good day! Doreen > >

Subject: RE: No w-9 again -- "Nicotra, Josh" wrote: > I am told that w/out a w-9, by law, payables has to > withhold 31% from the invoice... >

11/7/00

Hello, Since you are insisting that we provide you with a number that is not required by law for receipt of goods that were not imported or subject to any taxes as outlined in Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution, I am forwarding you some information on this. Please note that we have no contracts with you nor have we applied for any federal services or social programs. We want to be paid for the merchandise we sent you. Period. We do not wish to have a contract nor to fall under an employer/employee relationship with you.

How about this....since you are saying that the law requires it, please provide me with the law that does so. Also please note that all IRS income tax forms are "voluntary" in very small print...I am not volunteering to take any number or apply for special programs for which this number might be required.

Also of import in this particular occurrence, the IRS requirements for a w-9 state that they are only required by a agency reporting interest income, blah,blah,blah OVER $600.00. This isn't yet over $600.00.

To prove that I must do this, you have to show me an actual law, UCC or CFR, not an IRS internal voluntary participation request form.

At this point we have spent way too much time on this and your bookeepers haven't provided one bit of proof that this is a legal stance they are taking. As you might have guessed, I don't think the IRS is God, nor do I think there is a jury in this country that would uphold these violations of privacy in a court of law. Certainly not over a $471 invoice. You might have surmised by now that my rights are worth more than $471.

I'm sure the boys in upper level management will be quite pleased when the inability to promptly pay a $471 invoice turns into a high publicity and costly legal battle----after all, it will be hard to put a value on violation of Constitutional Rights let alone disruption of business.

Have a nice day.

SSN's and EIN's.......

The Employer Identification Number (EIN) and the Social Security Number (SSN) are both types of taxpayer identification numbers (TIN). Under section 301.6109-1 of the Code of Federal Regulations for Title 26 (Internal Revenue Code) a TIN is required by law of a foreigner only.

There is no law which requires a TIN (SSN or EIN) of a Citizen. Given this fact, it is not surprising that no law can be found which requires an employer to apply for or use an EIN. The employer who volunteers to obtain and use an EIN may make application for one on IRS Form SS-4 "Application For Employer Identification Number". With regard to the SSN, Title 42 of the United States Code at section 405(c)(2)(B)(i)(II) states that a SSN will be assigned to an applicant for federal benefits, however there exists no legal requirement for a citizen to apply for or use a SSN.

The citizen who volunteers to number himself by making application for a SSN on SSA Form SS-5 "Application For Social Security Account Number" does so presumably because he wishes to build credits towards participation in social security and other federal welfare entitlement schemes. Because the 5th Amendment to the Constitution protects against private property being taken for public use without just compensation, all social engineering (wealth redistribution, "entitlement", etc.) programs must be strictly voluntary, and in fact are.

Article 1, Section 10 of the Constitution states that "No State shall pass any Law impairing the Obligation Of Contracts", thereby guaranteeing the right of one citizen to contract out his labor (unarguably the most personal of property) to another citizen, as long as there is no intent to commit fraud. For this reason, any citizen can start his own business and contract out the labor (private property) of any another citizen with no taxes (private property) withheld and no lawful interference by or "partnership" with government give-away programs. The citizen who voluntarily applies for and uses an EIN thereby converts his status from common law employer (natural status) to statutorily defined "covered employer" (artificial status), thereby required by law to withhold social security tax from "covered employees" (i.e., those volunteering to use a SSN). To wit, the Code of Federal Regulations for Title 20 at section 404.1001 states under paragraph (a)(2): "If you are an employee, your covered work is called employment" while section 404.1003 states: "Employment means, generally, any service covered by social security performed by an employee for his or her employer." By volunteering to use an EIN, the covered employer imposes upon himself the requirement to withhold payroll taxes from covered employees.

W-9 Requirements for Contract Payments

In order to comply with Internal Revenue Service (IRS) guidelines, all contract payments require a W-9 form (IRS Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification) to be submitted along with the green contract payment voucher and, if required, the contract form. The IRS requires the university to have on file a W-9 form providing the taxpayer identification number, ownership type, and backup withholding status for all payees. The IRS requires the university to withhold and remit to the IRS 31% of the payment as backup withholding if the payee does not provide the information on the W-9 form.

Nicotra, Josh Subject: RE: No w-9 again

Do you accept credit cards? Josh

YEAH!!! Doreen

> >

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), November 08, 2000.



Doreen You didn't need a lawyer. Heck you gave'm a good dose of reality. Big business hate that. Keep up the good work.

:)

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), November 13, 2000.


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