I've been thinking a little bit about women's independence and feminism, and women's work on the farm. When I was a girl, mowing the lawn was a male job. Most of us would agree that these stereotypes are outdated. I've met some women, though, who live in the country but are unwilling or unable to light a fire in the stove ,dig a garden bed ,or make a fence. What kind of work do you ladies do around the homestead? Is there any kind of work that you will not or cannot do? My guess is that many of us do work that is traditionally thought of as being masculine. Guys, is there any work that you always do?

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 02, 2000

Answers

If its to be done, we don't gender stereotype. We have two boys -- I don't want them growing up thinking they need a spouse to keep their clothes (and bathrooms!!) clean!! My boys will know how to do laundry and if I had girls they'd know how to change the oil in the car. I don't want my kids to ever think they need to be reliant on another person for anything.

Self sufficiency means more than producing your own food.

-- Tracy (trimmer@westzone.com), November 02, 2000.

The only thing I haven't been able to do yet is kill the chickens. I have cut wood, but that mostly falls on husbands shoulders. I milked the cow when we had her and cleaned out the barn most of the time. I change the oil in the car, and in my husband's truck once in a while. He helps me do things inside because he knows how much I'd rather be outside. We built on to the house together. Whoever wakes up first gets the woodcook stove going. Both of us work in the garden. A neighbor came up while we were cutting grass this summer and said, "Now that's a smart man!" I had to think for a second what he was talking about. Hubby was on the rider mower and I had the push mower. ha ha.

-- Lena (breezex4@go.com), November 03, 2000.

Rebekah, a womens job is very simply anything that a husband doesn't elect to do. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 03, 2000.

Other than the fact that my husband won't do dishes unless he absolutely HAS to (less than half a dozen times in the almost twenty- five years we've been married, LOL!!!), we work together on most things. Some things are too heavy for me, as I have had back problems, and I don't get too close to his bee hives, but we take care of animals together, do the garden together, do any carpentry together, and so on. Actually, when it comes to building things, I usually figure out how to do it, draw up the plans, and then supervise and lend a hand as needed. When we castrated lambs I held them upside down on my lap while he did the cutting. And so on. He used to change diapers when the girls were babies -- but now that our youngest is twenty and still needs help batheing and dressing, he leaves that to me! I can, and have, run a chain saw, but they are too heavy for me to use for very long. And he can, and has, used the sewing machine to make things I didn't have time to do for him. So I don't think we really have women's work and men's work here, just what each one of us is capable of (and willing to do, in the case of the dishes!! ;-)

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), November 03, 2000.

My husband works full time and I pretty much get to stay home, except for going to help someone else build something or stripping tobacco in the winter. So I try to do everything I can so he dosen't have to after work. I do all the mowing, cleaning, allot of the building, books and such. We do things together on the weekends. I use the skill saw mostly. I don't like the chain saw or circular saw, they hurt my arms after a while. But I can use em' if I have to. But truthfully, Steve can chop wood ten times faster than I can!

I am lucky as Steve loves the garden, and just loves to plant and grow things. I know better than to lift things too heavy for me, and tell him what I need in the evenings. We both work on the trucks. I like working hard, it feels good when you're done. I got my goat barn roof finished yesterday, it looks good, and the best part is we don't have to do it on the weekend now cuz I did it while he was at work!

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), November 03, 2000.

I don't agree with feminism. Growing up there were no boys in my family so we mowed the yard cleaned the house, bottle fed calves, worked cows with Dad on Sat. herded them up on foot, run them into the corral and shute, held their tails while Dad castrated, we didn't always go willingly but Mom worked on Sat. and Dad had the reponsibility of spending some time with us since he was out of town working all week. What I wasn't taught was how to cook, be a Godly wife, how to raise my children, how to be frugal, live on a budget, was taught to sew and crochet some by my Grandmother. I don't blame my Mom for this, it was during the 60's and 70's and that was just the era, she and my Grandmother worked outside the home. Nowadays, there are a lot of things I can't physically do, I just don't have the strengh dh does and my carpentry skills are compared to those of a 5 yr old. We work with the goats together, I CAN drive the tractor, shred and work the front end loader if requred, I do all the gardening myself, except the tilling has fallen to my 17 yr old, the chain saw is heavy and scares me, but I can start a fire. We have what we call Mommy jobs and Daddy jobs, many of them either of us could probably do but would rather not, I don't want to tote a chain saw and he doesn't want to cook. I have so many house jobs it's hard for me to get outside except to take care of the goats, there are many outside things I need to do right now, but can't seem to get ahead on my inside stuff enough to get out there and do them. Of course when we have the garden I'm outside a lot. We have a 17 & 12 yr old boys so a lot of the heavier jobs fall to them. I'm a little lazy to on the manual labor thing, wow can't believe I admitted that.

-- Carol in Tx (cwaldrop@peoplescom.net), November 03, 2000.

I would like to think that I do my fair share! My husband works full time away and I stay at home. I will do anything I feel safe doing. (He's 6'6" and weighs 250lbs.-- I am 5'3" and weigh 135 lbs.)It would be crazy for me to lift 100lbs. bags if he's around! I do all the yard work (because I love it), I do all the cooking, cleaning, clothes.(because he won't) He cuts the wood and splits it, I stack it and bring into the house. I feed and clean up after the animals(again because I love it), He does most of the tractor work and I do most of the hoeing and weeding in the garden- he helps pick it and I can or freeze it. When we build something I am the "go-fer", "hand-mer" and the watergirl BECAUSE it takes me 10 strikes at the nails to get them in! LOL I do the cutting and measuring and I do a "mean" job with the battery operated drill/ screwdriver!. I put up the insulation in our bathroom while he was at work and I do all the painting that needs to be done inside and out of the house. I take care of my mom and his mom. I try not to ask him to do things I can do and He gets mad when I do things that (in his words) "I should not be doing!" It all works out!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), November 03, 2000.

We don't generally have his and her jobs. My husband is very good about helping with some of the housework if I'm behind or not feeling well. I help him with what I can. He's one of those guys that can do just about anything he sets his mind to. My skills aren't so great, so he does the major construction and I'm his assistant. I do the major canning and gardening and he's my assistant. He has a bad back and I have a sorta bad back and bad elbow. He cuts the wood I stack it (one of my favorite jobs). He's a whole lot stronger than me, but I workout 5 days a week, so I can do more than I used to. And like Cindy in Ky, I like hard work. I'm a great cook and so is he. But I'd never do anything just to prove I can if it would embarrass or humiliate my husband. I love to watch him work and we work very well together.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), November 03, 2000.

We both do the same things. Not each of us do them equally well since we have different levels of experience, and since my husband is stronger than I am, he does certain things. I have smaller hands, so I do certain things that require more "delicacy", especially when it comes to taking details off of construction projects.

Carol, could you please post a definition of Feminism? I would like to know what what you see it as, and why you disagree. Thanks.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), November 03, 2000.

I am like my mother and her family before her--I will do any work that needs to be done if I know how to do it. That leaves out a lot of carpentry and mechanics, but still, I do what I know how.

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), November 03, 2000.

whoa....what interesting answers!!!

I dig post holes, muck out the barn; clean up after, water, feed, sheer, and basically do all the tending to the Angora rabbits (although husband does help with I cut their toenails!); mow all the yards; do a little bush hogging; run the tiller in the garden; do most of the garden planting; do most of the tending to the large garden; then do the canning and freezing; etc. etc. etc.

I don't like to use electric saws and I refuse to use a chain saw. I guess that goes back to my daddy being a carpenter all those years and no matter how careful he was, accidents still happened. I will use a handsaw and a little more effort and get the job done, although quit a bit slower!!!

-- Suzy in 'Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), November 03, 2000.

Since I do not have a husband, the division is fairly simple. I do everything I can't convice my sons to do! They, on the other hand, do know how to clean, do laundry, cook, change oil, chop wood etc. I am in the process of making sure that by the time they all leave home, I do not need any help. I am designing my homestead with that in mind.

-- Cheryl (bramblecottage@hotmail.com), November 03, 2000.

I grew up on a large farm dairy and heifer operation. I started driving hay wagon when I was 8 and went on to raking hay and what ever else was necessary. my younger sister and I also did what was called rolling bales out in front of the tractor to get them out of the way and to combine rows of bales and get them all closer together so the hay crew did'nt have go so far for them. I also knew exactly how to feed all the barn animals at an early age in case dad was sick I would take care of the calves, feed hay water and helped pull my first calf when I was 12. When I wasnt helping dad I was trying to build things there were never any gender jobs on the farm the boys helped with the canning and the girls helped in the barn. I now know how to do an incredible amount of things and have a fair amount of confidence. parents out there let your children help stay out of their way and you will be giving them a wonderful gift, life and memories. p.s. my parents never forced us to do things that we wernt intrested in my younger sister was never intrested in the barn and helped out in the house we both liked what we were doing and there were never any hard feelings. ronda

-- ronda (thejohnsons@localaccess.com), November 03, 2000.

I do all the chores except those things that require more physical strength than I possess. For those, I hire my friends son to help me. I've been fortunate in my life to spend time around people that were willing to answer questions and explain how/what they were doing, so I have a good knowledge of how to do things. What I don't know how to do, I figure out or ask questions of those who do. Although help with the chores and such is nice, here work is just work, no gender designation.

-- Marci (ajourend@libby.org), November 03, 2000.

When we bought our farm 2 years ago, everybody worked outside and nobody worked inside! Now that things have settled down, the person who does the job is the one who has time, likes the job, or is most capable. Strangely, the girls prefer to work inside and the boys outside. I would much rather be outside with the animals, so I help the boys and leave the girls to keep up the inside.

-- Barbara Ternes (lbfarm@hit.net), November 03, 2000.

Like many of you, our chores are pretty much divided by physical capability, natural talent, and affinity. Forget the stereotyping - what a waste of time to worry about who should be doing this or that! When the kids were younger, everybody took turns at everything on the chores chart. As they grew older, it just naturally fell to the stronger boys to do some of the heavier work, but they all know how to clean, cook and sew. When there were babies around the house, my husband could see that it was to his advantage to do the dishes at night or maybe put the kids to bed so I could "rest and freshen up?!?!?" I think it's great partnering in the whole experience instead of being relegated to the kitchen or where-ever. In fact, my husband just bought me a new toy yesterday - a used roto-tiller of my own! Boy, are my arms sore today.:)

-- glynnis in KY (gabbycab@msn.com), November 03, 2000.

My husband does most of the outside work, with the exception of the garden, and all the car maintainance. He's a mechanic so that's natural. I do most everything else. We are building our own home and I have done all the wiring. A couple of days ago I finished putting in the lights in the attached garage and as soon as that was done, he installed the garage door opener I've been wanting. Today I took the front door off, trimmed it down to fit the new threshold I installed, put it back up and cut the decorative trim that will go around it as soon as the stain dries. I'd rather be doing carpentry or wiring than most anything else around here. On second thought I like needlework of all kinds too. I should have answered the "indulgences" thread by saying "power tools". Love 'em.

-- Peg (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), November 03, 2000.

There is no man's work or woman's work in our house,just work to be done by whomever is the most able or most interested.

I do carpentry bc Nick's not too good with a level or square or cutting straight and I'm fussy enought to be OK at it.He does laundry bc I cannot lift things from bad back injury,He does roofing bc he's still strong enough to hoist shingles,I finish the yucky drywall,again bc I'm fussy enought to do it well,not because I like the job.

We both garden and we both cook bc we both enjoy these activities. He does the dishes bc I refuse to-washed way too many dishes growing up,and am on strike for the rest of my life on it!

He feeds the animals,I work with them bc I have a natural affinity, and am a student of animal(and human) behavior.

We both go out to get the firewood bc we enjoy the day afield, same for hunting. I don't fish less you stick me in a boat as a captive-He loves to fish.

Anyway you get the point.People should just do 1.What they can 2.What they love 3.What they're good at

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), November 03, 2000.

This is a fun question (I'm sick of the election wrangling). Last weekend I and a group of women and girls took down horse stalls in a barn that has to be moved -- sledgehammer and prybar work on triple- nailed 2x6 oak boards. When there's spare time, the women also hammer the nails back out to save the lumber, and others were hauling it off to the new location and putting it back up there. The owner had her brother and boyfriend there doing carpentry, but it was mostly women. With no husband or boys to help out around here, everything is women's work...ok, not the reshingling, I needed it done before winter and paid two guys since I couldn't be two places at once. Around the barn I'm the one who foals hte mares, walks the colicky horses, & holds horses for the vet to stitch. My dad wouldn't let us girls use the power mower (no-- my brother got the easy end!) -- we had to use the push mower. He also wouldn't let me use power tools, so when I went off to college I made sure I learned to use every one I could get hands onto. As a kid, I bailed boats, cleaned cottages (we had a resort), took the trash to the dump, sold bait. From my grandfather I learned to clean fish, dress and pluck ducks, skin a variety of animals (raccoon,rabbit,beaver,mink,muskrat,fox) and peg and cure the hides, cut and stack wood, keep the woodfire furnace going, how to smoke fish and venison, and how to smoke traps to hide human smell. My grandmother taught me how to make bread and sulphur apples when I was 5 -- apparently she'd already taught me how to make soup when I was 3 (according to my mother). I haul the manure for the garden and turn it in by hand. Yesterday I turned the compost bin and laid out more garden paths, today I moved straw and soon another load of hay will be coming that needs unloading and stacking. Around the barn, I'm the one in charge of catching mice and snakes and releasing them out in the woods -- the other women jump at those. I competed in a 4th of July celebration contest to see who could hammer nails the fastest and finished in second place. The only thing I sew well are horse blankets...(fortunately, my sister sews well)

I didn't get the reference to feminism either, however, it did put me in mind of the quote "I am frequently accused of being a Feminist. I am not certain what that is, except that I am accused of being one every time I voice an opinion that differentiates me from a doormat."

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), November 03, 2000.

Well since I am single I do it all myself. My mother taught all us kids to cook, clean , laundry so I am not lost. I am amazed that some of my friends don't know how to work the washing machine. I can sew a button on but thats about it for my sewing skills but I have used fabric glue for mending.

-- Mark (deadgoatman@webtv.net), November 03, 2000.

At our place, I do most all of the outside things, garden, etc. Well most of the physical things in general as the wife, Queen Buffness, is not in very good physical shape. Bad ticker and fibromyalgia. Bummer for a young woman. She is Queen of the house. She is the other half of the brain for me! She thinks of all those things I don't. Is the memory I lost in the 70"s. Our one remaining teen son at home helps a bunch. Queen B is in charge of homeschooling, meals, most of the bill paying (tho we do the budget together). We all work together. my son and I help w/ laundry, whatever else needs to be done is basically done on physical not gender.

I don't really know what the definition of Feminism is. I'd be curious to here some of your thoughts on it. Never equated it w/ doormat. I always thought being a liberated woman was covered in Proverbs 31 starting at verse 9. John

-- john in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), November 03, 2000.

These have been interesting answers. I'm impressed by how many of you do manual labor; some of it I've never tried. In the past, I've been seen as distinctly unfeminine for some of the work I've done, so this thread has been a real revelation to me! Some of the work that I do includes splitting wood( one of my favorite jobs), turning garden beds,cleaning the barn and hauling the manure to the garden, all the goat jobs, pasture rotation, sometimes I fix things on the barn or build stuff, but dh is a carpenter, so I let him do it with his power tools- faster. One thing I don't like to do is to bury dead animals. When they die, I feel like it's my fault, and don't like to go near the dead body and be reminded of how lifelike it used to be. Guess I should get over it instead of shifting it to dh. He also does any chainsaw work, and operates the rototiller. I know how to use the tiller, but would rather hand dig. He also fixes anything mechanical such as cars, generators, washing machines, etc, does all the laundry, and all the grocery shopping. Right now he also bucks all the hay and carries all the feed to the barn, because I'm out of shape, having just had a baby. I do most of the housework but the truth is that I'm not good at it. When I was a girl there was only one boy, so I got drafted for most of the manual labor around the homestead. It is hard for me to see much point to housework. The house may look nice when it's all clean, but 15 minutes later it needs to be done again, whereas if you split wood or build a barn or plant a garden you see some lasting results. John, I was thinking of Proverbs 31, too. Where did people get this idea that it's biblical for a lady to sit around the house and be be some kind of a doormat? This is a lady who was out doing business and buying land! Why have I always thought that feminism is unbiblical and evil? Anyway, I've been rethinking some of my values and your answers have given me food for thought. Thank you all.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 04, 2000.

Well my husband is the one with the back injury so he helps me with what he can...The garden is my resonsibility and my love, he will drive the tractor/wagons to bring in the harvests. The animal's daily care I do and slaughter of small animals, large ones like the pig I send out. Carpentry we both do, I am more fussy so I do finish work. He does all electrical work or computer. The most important job we share- the raising of our children.

-- Terri (Terri@tallships.ca), November 05, 2000.

I do the butchering of the small livestock, the larger is sent out to be done. Most of the housework, planning & planting the garden, pruning the fruit trees & bushes, livestock care & mucking out is mainly left to me. Hubby & remaining son living with us, will share much of the rest, ie: wood splitting (I'll help to split some but mainly stack), hauling the muck, putting up those heavy storm windows, maintenance on the outbuildings, etc. Hubby has his business office in our home, so if an emergency occurs, he's usually there to lend a hand. Our son just grad. from HS, but has computer classes in the am and works part-time in the evening. It's great that we can work together.

-- Phyllis (almostafarm@yahoo.com), November 05, 2000.

We generally agreed that I do outside she does inside, then we help each other when we can convince each other it is nessasary. I always thought femminessem (spelling) consist of I don't need a man for anything unless I decide ie too heavy,I don't want to,I don't have to (mainly the women who work for me)

-- Tom (Calfarm@msn.com), November 05, 2000.

Am not going to speak for Carol, but what I got out of what she said on feminism was, alot of us country gals were "feminist" before the the other city gals put a name to it, even us that stay at home. We just don't and never did need the label. I personally don't think most of them could handle the kind of jobs we do every day. Around our house if any thing gets broke, I am the one who always fixes it. Love messing with any thing mechanical. I take care of most of the garden, but my husband helps. We both do the carpentry work, although I leave the sawing to him. Same with the chain saw. He's alot bigger than me and the darn thing is heavy. I do most all of the weed eating and mowing. He works full time and I stay at home, so I do most of the house work and cooking, although he's always more than glad to pitch in. Sounds like we're alot like everyone else. No gender roles here either. Just do what needs to be done. And you know what? It's alot of fun working beside your mate! (most of the time. hee hee)

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), November 05, 2000.

Feminism is about equal rights. It means equal pay for equal work...for men and women to make equal pay for the same job. A male clerk at Walmart should make the same hourly wage of pay as a female one who does the exact same thing. Wouldn't you agree? It simply makes sense.

Feminism is about access. It is about being able to at least try for the firefighter job, if a woman thinks she can handle the stress, the weight of the rope, etc.

It is about safety for women, in making sure there are realistic and intelligent laws that protect them. Not special, silly ones, either.

WHAT IT IS NOT ABOUT is: Gay and lesbian rights (although some feminists support this concept, based on a possible mutual understanding of exclusion); abortion rights (although many feminists are pro-choice); being provided special consideration or granted a special right (for example being hired as an unqualified firefighter); or any number of things that people often associate with feminism. I point this out when people indicate that they are against feminism. Sometimes it's a matter of definition. And yes, there are stories out there from people who say, "yes, but I knew a woman who got special priveledges for __fill in the blank__." Yes, there are always exceptions and bad decisions made; however it does not change the basic concept.

The women on this forum would be all over this issue, if for example, they went to a livestock market and were told they could get 47 cents less per pound for their animals, the only reason being that they were women sellers! Or that they had to pay more for a ton of hay, for the same reason.

It's a simple concept of justice.

For those of us who willingly shoulder whatever load we need to heft, this concept should be a no-brainer. Like we have all pretty much said, we do whatever needs to be done, as best as we can, and no fussiness or whining. Our women friends in the cities should be able to do their equivalent work by being able to chose employment that allows them to do whatever needs to be done, as best as they can, too. Hopefully, no whining! Simple concept.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), November 06, 2000.

I can do more than alot of men. I can work on vehicles, run a tractor or tiller, hunt-kill-dress out game, put up a fence and just about anything else needed to be done a farm. I may not be quite as strong as some, but there are ways around most of that kind of problem. I am married and my husband considers hisself lucky to have a women so versital. I do not like everything I know how to do, but if I need to do it, it will get done. There is nothing wrong with letting the man do the outside stuff if you don't want to do it, but everyone should learn how to do some of everything, even if you have someone to do it for you. You never know when that person wont be able to do that for you any more.

-- Kellie-AR (kashaa@ipa.net), November 06, 2000.

If you re-read Kellie's last two sentences in the post above, isn't that perhaps why we are "homesteaders"?

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), November 06, 2000.

I just loved reading all of the reponses to this great post! As many of you, there is no such thing as his/her jobs, my boys can cook and sew, my daughter can haul wood and change a tire. Honey even washes dishes! "Pre-honey", well, those were the lean years that really tested our strength-we did very well, thank you. Some of the most amusing moments happened while I was managing an apartment building- read: free rent! Whenever there was work to be done, that I wasn't qualified to do (which wasn't often!), the electrican, plumber etc., always insisted on dealing with THE MANAGER-you know, the MALE one! Well, there isn't one pal! I'm it! And I know this building from the roof to the crawl space. Most of them never did get it, and always ended up calling the landlord, who would assure them that it really was ok to deal with me. Anyway, I'm glad thats over.

-- Kathy (catfish@bestweb.net), November 06, 2000.

Thankyou Ladies for restoring my trust in the sanctity of womanhood. I knew I loved you all for a reason. Heck. I can't wire much of anything. "I wire for fire" would be my motto. I'm a parts changer, not a mechanic. Why, the queen bought me a tee shirt once that said "I'm not real smart, but I can move heavy stuff"

All of your husbands should be proud to have such practical, talent laden mates. I wish you all lived closer and could help me when I need it. I'd bake you cookies if you did! John

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), November 06, 2000.