Ladies, look. Even if you train a tot to always pee into a toilet sitting down it is only likely to last until about the age of six. Have you every heard of playing fireman with a cigarette butt?

Why not compromise? In each bathroom put an empty Chorox bottle. Decorate it if you want. "Request" each male in your household to pee into it. The one who fills it up gets the honor of dumping it on the compost pile or around the roses or whatever.

Rational: The urea in urine is good fertilizer (nitrogen). Less liquids going into your septic system or sewer system helps your system or the environment in general.

Might work if you say please with an explanation.

And, yes, I know. You'll be the one emptying it. Live with it.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), November 01, 2000

Answers

I ASK my husband to go pee around the outside of the garden to keep the deer out of there. Lable the bottle "Deer B Gone".

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), November 02, 2000.

Ken your single aren't you ? Just wondering .

-- Patty (fodfarms@slic.com), November 02, 2000.

When my husband was in college the house mother at his small rooming house made ALL the guys sit down. That's a habit he brought into our marriage, and passed to our sons. I can't thank that house mother enough - or my husband, for that matter. It's one of those little courtesies that means so much and takes little effort. After all, over half the population of the world manages to find time to sit-a- spell now and then.

-- glynnis in KY (gabby@msn.com), November 02, 2000.

Is there any hope of teaching my Kentucky bred real McCoy mountain man hunter guy to sit and pee?

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), November 02, 2000.

My dog only cocked his leg one time to pee on the electric fence. Hmmmmm, maybe a few posts and a little wire in the bathroom?

-- Terri Perry (stuperry@stargate.net), November 02, 2000.

Look, up til now I've remained silent on the subject, but I've got to say this is silly. The thing to do is train your male (son, husband, whatever) to put the seat down and clean up. The male anatomy is designed to stand and pee. That's it. End of discusion. And yes I have a small boy and a husband. As long as they live with you, there will be comprimise and this is one we ladies have to deal with. Just make them clean up when they miss. They'll get the idea soon enough. And if they don't, deal with it. Annette

-- annette (j_a_henry@yahoo.com), November 02, 2000.

Cindy, at least a real McCoy Kentucky mountain man knows how to pee in the woods! Instructing the males to go outside away from the house is quite helpful until you are at the grocery store. This is what separates the country boys from the town boys. The country boys walk to the curb and pee in the gutter.

Last year my youngest daughter reverted to peeing her pants while playing outside. When I talked to her about it, she told me, "I'm peeing like Dad at the beach." She turned her back to me, grabbed the front belt loops on her jeans and stood there and peed her pants!

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), November 02, 2000.

Patty, I was wondering the same thing! OK, 'fess up Ken, you married or not? My husband compromises, if he can see that he missed, he wipes it up with TP, of course we women have a lot keener eyes about this sort of thing! Is an interesting idea though, Ken. Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), November 02, 2000.

A simple solution if this is really an issue would be to install a urinal next to the toliet. Wouldn't that be attractive?? What a conversation piece.

-- Bill (Sticky@2sides.tape), November 02, 2000.

O.K. gals and guys! It isn't the out and out missing of the toilet that I am talking about. Next time hubby goes to pee, go and watch, yes the stream of urine hits the water, but the splash from the distance peed (guess this distance would be dependant upon.....) but then there is this splash effect that sends a large amount of droplets all over everything, the toliet tank the seat bottom, the toilet itself and the tile! Watch this for yourself, and I can barely get husband to wipe up a miss, think I am going to get him to wipe down this whole area? He also complains that sitting down to pee is impossible in the morning :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 02, 2000.

I had a country aunt that pee'd standing up! still get shivers thinking back to that day at her farm when we were coming up to the garden and there she stood flatfooted and she wasn't no "Mrs. Doubtfire". As far a teaching young boys to be neat, my older brother always told me " Be like your big brother, not like your sis, raise the seat and take good aim before you pi--.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), November 02, 2000.

For those with ***** envy, get Whizzees TM, a waxed manila "trough" with large handles that allows any woman to "walk like a man". Also handy for camping trips, those with arthritic knees and hips who have trouble getting up and down, and those who just love to write their names in the snow!

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), November 02, 2000.

Well ladies, I am coming up on 54 and have never been married, nor do I ever intend to be. Consider it my gift to womanhood.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), November 02, 2000.

P.S. At the local farmers' co-op an employee's wife told him, in no uncertain terms, he was to sit when peeing. When that got around he acquired a nickname he retains today of "Squat." They are divorced for a couple of years. Question over who wore the pants in the family.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), November 02, 2000.

As I don't have indoor plumbing and use a composting toilet I put in one of those oil funnels on the wall and ran a pipe down the hill to a compost area and use as an urinal. Cuts down on liquids I have to carry out and keeps the area cleaner. Sometimes it is nice to live a little bit simpler than others. Won't go into all the logistics but will say it is easier to hit that funnel than a toilet. You might also get a target decal and put in the bottom of the toilet to help with aim. I think most men are more careful when aiming a gun than in the natural water pistal maybe a target will make the conection that you are suppose to aim before fireing. gail

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef123@hotmail.com), November 02, 2000.

I figure if that's the worst thing my husband does, then I'm a blessed woman.

-- Lena (breezex4@go.com), November 02, 2000.

Patty, you were right! Am I the only one who is hearing faint "oinking" noises in the background? :-) Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), November 03, 2000.

I don't consider myself to be a MSP, but then as we see outselves and others see us are sometimes two separate things.

I have known extremely competent men and women. I'll give you an example. I am currently involved in a volunteer community effort to build one of those super playgrounds out of mostly PT wood. Because I volunteered early I was assigned as a crew chief for a group of two women and two men for a project. Within a half hour it became apparently one of the women was far, far more competent that I was at the task assigned. She became defacto crew chief and I became a worker for that particular assignment.

Yes, I have never been married, but that doesn't mean I have not been an observer of others, some for multiple occasions. Look at those marriages which last 50-60 years. Chances are the overall balance averages around 100%. From that I mean it works if there is an average 50/50 trade-off between the parties, or a 20/80 or an 80/20, as long as both parties agree to the arrangement.

My reference to the co-op worker, and this is third hand, is it was something more like 80/80.

Earlier in this post someone joked about not having talked to his wife for many years because she didn't like to be interupted. Before I took early retirement I knew a guy coming up on his fifth marriage. This guy loved to talk and talk and talk without saying anything of particular importance. When he would come into the cubicle I would make an inward groan and suddenly whatever I was doing became extremely critical and time sensitive. A coworker and I had an agreement if we saw him in each other's cubicle we would call and pretend the other one had to suddenly go to an important meeting. He had the nickname of Mr. Everything as in "When everything is said and done, a lot more gets said than gets done." If he ever finds a listener his marriages might last more than a couple of years. Even four wives apparently couldn't tune him out.

If there is a culture to where men routinely sit down to pee I don't know about it. Besides the significant accidents I have is because there is a gap between the toilet seat and bowl, the way men are configured, and the state of equipment at the time. I occasionally find a puddle in front of the toilet. I admit housekeeping is not one of my strong points and I do hire a cleaner to come in about every six weeks whether it needs it or not. However, about every two weeks or so I do give the bathroom a lick and a promise.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), November 03, 2000.

If this is the worst thing my husband does im a happy women. with my husband and three boys I would be fighting a loosing battle I could try giving then a choice sit down or clean up after themselves but I would probably end up sneaking in after them to clean again. more than likely if we had the option we would stand up to pee also. and if men were made to clean up after them selves something else would have been invented years ago men would rather invent a better way of handling the problem than clean up. perhaps toilet in a shower stall? ronda

-- ronda (thejohnsons@localaccess.com), November 03, 2000.

I have found that men in the country seem to prefer to pee in the woods, regardless of the porcelain amenities available. It's their Inner Boy Scout. Skip the whole Clorox bottle routine and have them deliver direct. I've known plenty of men who pee sitting down -- and it's nothing I ever had an opinion on so it can't be my influence.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), November 03, 2000.

The reason I do have an opinion on this topic is because I've done so much paid cleaning, and noticed the DISTINCT difference in odor between mens bathrooms and womens! Looked onto the cause and found that it was because of the splash effect which Vicki mentioned above leaving a fine mist of urine mixed with water on every surface within three feet of the toilet, which odor-causing germs then flourish in. I was thinking about this last night on my way to work. Up until the time indoor toilets with water flush were invented, this was not a problem. Peeing outdoors in the woods or in an outhouse just doesn't splash all over everything. (No water.) I like Gail's contraption, and we are planning on building a composting toilet with a urine diverter at our next place, so hubby will have to sit down (though I think he usually does, anyway). As for the rest of you, if you have time to disinfect your bathroom walls and every other surface within three feet of the toilet, then it doesn't matter if your guys sit or not. If you don't have time, you've got a germ-haven there!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), November 03, 2000.

Speaking as a woman in the house with 4 men and 2 ladies, I would be happy to get everyone to flush the toilet.

little bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), November 03, 2000.

Great post Kathleen!

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 03, 2000.

Ken, we still appreciate your input, no matter what! :-) At least it gets us thinking, something we need to more of, most of the time! Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), November 03, 2000.

Ladies, here's one you'll enjoy...and NO, I haven't tried it! LOL!

http://www.restrooms.org/standing.html

-- Chelsea (rmbehr@istar.ca), November 03, 2000.

My husband blames my son. My son blames my husband. I get to clean it. All well, at least I got them to put the seat down. The top also in the downstairs bathroom so the bird couldn't drown.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), November 03, 2000.

As a single mom with 3 sons, now nearly grown, I hated to go into the bathroom at times. But I finally put in a spray bottle of water and vinegar mixture. At least once a day either I or one of the boys would spray down the toilet and surrounding area. It only takes a second and really cut down on the odors. It took a little coaxing, but soon they found out how quick it was to keep mom happy. And as the saying goes if Mama ain't happy nobodies happy!

-- Barb (WILDETMR@YAHOO.COM), November 05, 2000.