I would like to hear from those of you who have lived without electricity and/or running water and/or alternative energy sources. Am very interested in going off-grid, but don't know if I could live without my computer. Amber

-- Amber Quillen (mikeandamberq@hotmail.com), October 01, 2000

Answers

Response to no electricity

Wow, more power to ya. I, however, won't be joining you off grid. Even if they are getting more and more expensive I rather enjoy the creature comforts. On computer access, many public libraries now have computer terminals access to the Internet.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), October 01, 2000.

Response to no electricity

I have lived without electricity and running water for years at a time, and liked it. We have solar now, but still have to be frugal with it, or else run the generator. I think you would find that without access to the usual forms of entertainment,you will spend a lot more time doing things you always wished you had the time to do or to learn how to do, and more family type entertainment, such as playing games together, reading, etc.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), October 01, 2000.

Response to no electricity

We lived without running water for nearly a year due to the drought. I much, much prefer running water. Somehow, there is nothing quite like dragging in bucket after bucket of water when it is raining or better yet, when there is ice on the ground. And then there was hauling water for all the animals--horses included. I'd definitely opt for a solar well pump.

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), October 01, 2000.

Response to no electricity

I'm with Ken on this one. Off grid is fine if you have a well water supply and power generation system (wind, solar or hydro, geo thermal, not petroleum fueled). The primitive stuff I'll keep for camping. Remember every homesteader in the past used tools that were available. "Modern homesteading" has a slew of technological advancements that can be utilized for a more self sufficient existance than your non homesteading neighbors and aquaintances. By the way, with a self sufficient power generation system, any excess power can be sold to on grid power suppliers and by federal law, they are required to buy it from you.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), October 01, 2000.

Response to no electricity

I appreciate all the responses. I definitely prefer running water and electricity, but am willing to sacrifice a little (hopefully not too long) to get what and where I want to go. Just wondered how others coped and for how long. Anything is possible if you're willing. About 4 years ago we lived with no electricity and with only cold running water into our cabin. We lived like that for about 6 months before we moved out of state. I would still like to be off- grid though. Thanks, Amber

-- Amber Quillen (mikeandamberq@hotmail.com), October 01, 2000.

Response to no electricity

I've been off grid for twelve years now. Finally broke down and paid a kings ransom for phone connection. Solar panels provide enough power for tv, stereo, some lights, and my notebook computer. I went with the notebook because the big box computers used an excessive amount of power. Generator backup power for rainy/cloudy periods, or excessive power demands. My water is gravity fed from a small lake above my home. Gasoline for generator is usually 2 or 3 gallons a month. I'm off grid because I hate bills...my sisters electric bills are several hundred a month.

-- phil briggs (phillipbriggs@thenett.com), October 01, 2000.

Response to no electricity

I have electricity but no well so I have to haul water. When I moved here I had to have electricity brought in it cost for 900 feet $300 plus the hook up fee of $160 as I was building a house I got the first 300 feet free then it was 50cents a foot which included the wire and poles as well as the installation.

For water I use the rain gutters from my house and collect in 20 50gal barrels and a 200 gallon stock tank. Even with the drought this summer I never ran out of water except I did haul for the animals when I got down to the 500gallons stored in metal barrels. When I am getting frequent rains I use the water for cooking, washing both me and the dishes and for animal water. I didn't have a garden this year but plan to next year. I also have a pond dug but not holding water to good yet but again even with the drought I still have a puddle in the bottom.

When I lived in the mountains near meyer az in the early 90's I had a 400 watt generator that also had a 10amp 12 volt battery charger built in. Durring the summer I rarely had to use it as I had one solar panel. This was done cheaply only had two cheap auto batteries for storage. Had 12 volt lighting and music hooked into the batteries and did have a small VCR/TV which I only ran when I did run the generator. Durring the winter I would usually watch one movie a night with the generator running the TV and charging the batteries. This would also give me the power I needed for lighting durring the day, evening and after the generator was off. Had a small camper gas refridgerator. gail

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef123@hotmail.com), October 02, 2000.

Response to no electricity

Amber,

We have no electric lines by choice, and no water yet. We've been doing this for 3 years, and the only real problem is water. When it rains, we use the water for everything except drinking. We are building a 3500 gallon cistern to catch roof runoff, but its low on the priority list. Water is a BIG deal when you have to watch every drop, but we're used to it. Just getting tired of it. On the up side, the girls complain when they spend the night with a friend and have to bathe with well or city water. They say it makes their hair feel bad.

As far as the electricity is concerned, that is not a problem at all. My girls are 13 and 16, and adapted very well to less juice. TV is a treat, and they occassionally whine about not being able to turn it on anytime they want, they mostly don't care. Neither of them likes to read, but they play guitar, piano, the youngest likes animals and outdoors. I don't like TV much, and I'm usually too busy to watch anyway. Husband has to watch in the evening. 13 year-old likes to use the blow dryer and curling iron, but knows to check the amp meter first. (The kids' friends don't understand the concept of running out of electricity.)

Last year we were on generator/batteries only, but this year we have 300 watts of solar panels. What a luxury! In summer, we've only had to run the generator about once a week or less. Winter will be more often. I use a laptop computer. It cost more, but uses very little electricity. I need to get a second battery for it for winter, though. Almost all our hand tools are battery powered and get recharged when the TV is on. Lots of flashlights for going outside and to keep on the nightstands beside the beds, since we don't have night lights.

We have quite a few 12 volt lights in the house, because they use so little electricity, and we can use them even when the batteries are low.

It's not really a hardship, just a matter of adjusting to what you want.

-- Teresa (otgonz@bellsouth.net), October 02, 2000.

Response to no electricity

Just thought I would mention that if you do go off the grid, you may want to invest in a cell phone if you don't have a phone hookup. These can be very inexpensive if you only use them on a limited basis. It would give you that safety margin in an emergency without a lot of outlay for service. Make sure you get one that can be on standby for about a week without being recharged. That way you can leave it on to receive calls but keep in mind you do get charged for incoming calls as well as outgoing ones. Most of the services give you local calls for free although some are limited to nights and weekends. Just a thought.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), October 02, 2000.

Response to no electricity

Been there. Done that. Glad I did it. Wouldn't do it again, if I had a choice. It became a very time consuming project, with little time for other things in life.

JOJ

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), October 03, 2000.

Response to no electricity

Thanks everyone for all the great responses. It gives me lots to think about. Amber

-- Amber Quillen (mikeandamberq@hotmail.com), October 04, 2000.

Response to no electricity

I've been caretaker of an off-grid place for years & smile when folk say "you can't get there from here". Rooftops with gutters emptying into cisterns and/or tanks like here make for a water system. To make it work like in the real world, spend $65 or less on a 12v water pump for boats & RVs, get a few PAIRS of 6v golf cart batteries (they last nearly forever, cost about $50/ea, start with 2), wire them so you have a 12v system & run it to the pump & an on/off switch & VOILA, you have water! Batteries run low? Got a gas genny? Good - use it with a battery charger until you can afford to get solar panels. If the only thing you use the electricity for is a water pump (& by the way, that flimsy looking thing runs 2 bathrooms, 2 kitchens & a spare sink) you'll last forever. Now, 12v bulbs are pricey, but tough, you don't use them often, either. You can also use fluorscent bulbs. The place I live in has the usuals - 2 TVs, a 'puter, all the lights one expects, killer stereo system, etc. Want to use power tools? Crank up Genny. The place uses solar panels for recharging, a wind generator as a backup & a Honda genny for a third backup. Owner bought a monster deisel generator I refuse to mess with - scares hell out of me - but that was a toy. Any search engine can help you find self sufficiency & a good step is COUNTRYSIDE.ORG which has several forums - go to "off the grid" & jump in.

Things to remember: 1) DO NOT let anyone tell you it can't be done. No, it ain't cheap, but you don't have to start with all of it at once, either. I have a cabin in the Smokeys that's gonna see a little of that next vacation. I'm just starting with a rooftop water catchment system into a huge something - propbably a cattle waterer - & using the RV pump as described. Just 2 RV batteries'll do it for moi for now. Yep, the thing'll be unhooked when I have to leave. Piece of cake, really...

2) Fridge? Think propane. Costly? Don't buy a new one. Larger RV places often have trade-outs coz the Jonses HAD to get the bigger model. Stove? Are you kidding? I have NO idea how to cook on an elect one, anyhow. Friend of mine got blasted across the room while cleaning her electric stove & I seriously doubt she'll ever use another one, either. Propane/natural gas isn't that expensive, compared to getting electricity run into your place.

3) Heat? lotsa feedback on that one, I'm sure. Y'all have trees that need thining out? Any lumber anythings near that, for clearing out, will let you have their leftovers? Ditto any log house companies or truss mfg places or pallet makers? Be creative.

Sorry to run on like this, but it's a topic near & dear. I wish you the best & feel free to 'E me anytime............Kt.

-- K-K-K-KATIE (yarnspinnerkt@hotmail.com), October 04, 2000.

Response to no electricity

Amber ,

We have a place in the Ozarks. We started in a 30 foot travel trailer 16 years ago. We used two solar cells and two golf cart batteries. The water was supplied by rain water off the roof that pumped through a solar (bread box style) water heater. By a 12 volt pump. The power was enough to run fans during the hot summer months. We still maintain the trailer for guest that wish to visit.

We have up graded to a 1200 sqft home that is on grid but with a extensive back up system that we use when the rural power goes off, which it does for several hours (days?) during the week.

We have 3, 120 watt panels that feed a 1250 amp/hr forklift battery. This feeds our home with 120AC through a Heart Freedom 20 inverter When power needs are greater than what the inverter can supply, we have a steam engine powered 10KW generator to power the well pump and shop tools such as welders. (We should have gotten a Freedom 40, but the money wasnt there for that, we put it into the steam engine powered generator.)

We have a 1500 gallon tank on the hill behind the house that is filled with either well water or rain water. When the grid power is off we use the tank. It is 40 feet above the house which puts about 15 psi at the tap. We have a "on demand" (no tank) style propane water heater that requires differential pressure to turn on. The 15 psi is adequate to do this.

We use the steam boiler to heat the house as well as wood stove depending on whether we have steam up for generating. In the Ozarks there arent that many real cold days.

Long term plans in process is to connect to the steam boiler using a heat exchanger to supply all the hot water needs in the winter. Then our only need for propane would be the stove.

Wes Gordon www.geocities.com/steamgen/

-- Wes Gordon (wjjcg4@busprod.com), October 05, 2000.

Response to no electricity

I forgot one thing. The phone company told me originally that they couldn't install for us because there were no power lines, but I insisted, and they installed. There were already lines on the road, but they said they had to use the electric company's ground? They drove their own ground, and we're fine.

We also started in a 30 foot motor home, and with a gallon of gas we even had air conditioning when it was really awful. Didn't much like using the "furnace", because it used up all the electricity for the blower. We used kerosene (very carefully) and the oven on the stove for heat for 2 winters.

We keep stealing things from the motor home for our new house. We built a cabinet for the propane refrigerator (25 years old), and splurged on a new one to go with it. Now we have about 16 cu ft of refrigerator. I bought a used gas stove and didn't like it, so we took the old one from the camper and built a cabinet for it, too. Stole the water pump, but haven't installed it yet. I found a demand water heater, never been used, for $150, and it's also waiting for our water lines to be installed.

The gas company here isn't supposed to install lines, but I think they enjoy coming out to see what we're doing, because every time I ask how to run a line for a particular appliance, they come out and hook it up for me.

-- Teresa (otgonz@bellsouth.net), October 06, 2000.

Response to no electricity

Amber, the key to living off the grid is to figure out what you need to do every day to function (laundry, dishes, baths, etc.) and figure out IN ADVANCE how you are going to accomplish those chores without the usual utilities, and get the necessary items to do them before you go off grid. For instance, I now have the wringers and laundry tubs and the Lehman's pressure washer (a little barrel-like contraption) to do the laundry. Just make sure you are prepared in advance, or it will get very tiresome very fast.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 06, 2000.