Item on AOL News this morning which says it takes an average of $177,700 to raise a child from birth to 18. To me this seems high. When I looked at their input they included $6,000 a year in additional housing.

Most people probably start out in a two bedroom apartment or starter house. That can certainly accommodate two children, both single sex indefinitely, separate sex at least up to the age of six with bunk beds. If a move it made to a larger house is it strictly related to more room for the children or that the parents have built up some discretionary income and simply want a larger place in a nicer neighborhood?

Even if you reduce additional housing cost to $1,000 per year, that still leaves $87,700 as the cost, which seems in line with other reports I have seen. Remember this is an average. The cost to a homestead will likely be less than a family living in a well-to-do suburb.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), September 09, 2000

Answers

I might think differently than most people but I don't think it costs anything to raise a child. To me, cost is something I had to spend unwillingly. Like a car cost me, or implements cost me. My children were always something I wanted to do. I could always feed four as cheap as two without any waste. The rest of any money spent ? Ahhhh, that was an investment in Love !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), September 09, 2000.

Joel, you are a good man. And you are right, it is an investment in love.

P.S.--Joel, when I say you are a good man, that is truly high praise from me.

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), September 09, 2000.

I never kept track of my investment, but as a divorcee paying child support I can roughly and very quickly account for an amount between $40,000 and $50,000. It was worth every penny of it too. I love my daughter and she loves me, and it has always been like this. By the way, I'm sure that my ex-wife spent an equal amount on/for our daughter. LOL. (Thinking out loud) Hm, let's see, she drove a new Lincoln to casinos while I drove a 10 year old vehicle with over 100,000 miles on it. Yup, I'm sure she spent an equal amount, just not sure what on? Sorry folks, didn't mean to turn this into a divorce thread. However I am happy to say that I can hold my head up high and say that I fulfilled my daughter's life with time together, travel together, skiing, etc., and that I paid all of the child support that I was supposed to for my daughter's benefit. Yes indeed, our children are an investment that pays great unending dividends back to us.

-- Notforprint (Not@thekeyboard.com), September 09, 2000.

In one of the three Tightwad Gazette books, the author analizes these figures and shows how once again the news media doesn't know much. They figure you're going to buy child raising gear at full retail price. We Countrysiders well know that this is dumb and almost totally unnecessary with so many yard/garage sales, thrift shops and sharing relatives.

-- Sandy (smd2@netzero.net), September 09, 2000.

In Kenya, an anthropologist was interviewing the chief of a village. He asked him, "How many children do you have?" The chief answered, "We count cattle. We don't count children." My brother-in-law came upon a notebook in which his father had kept an account of exactly how much he had spent on each of his two sons. For pencils, bandaids, clothes, food, toys, tickets to whatever... My husband was appalled. It made him feel like he had been a burden to his father his whole childhood. In America we always reduce things to a dollar sign.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), September 09, 2000.

Notforprint,

Couldn't e-mail direct, so those of you who don't want to read about divorce/child support - skip this one...

Our daughter was 7 when her father and I got divorced. My attorney was appalled because I argued with the judge over child support. He tried to set it at 20% of John's income - I wanted $50 a week, about $75 difference. I finally asked the judge if he thought I could raise a kid on $100 a week - he thought that it was possible. I then asked if he felt that I had a responsibility to my child equal to that of her father. He agreed again. I said "Fine, $50 from me and $50 from him make $100." He tried to tell me that he could force John to pay more - I told him I'd be happy to deliver checks turned to confetti to his office. I also asked him how in the hell he expected my ex to afford a decent home and be able to still give Jess the things she needed while she was with him if he had to pay that much - no answer. So I got my $50 a week, which went into a checking account in my daughter's name - she wrote checks for her clothing, school fees and lunches and whatever else she needed - and her Dad knew that all the money he sent was spent to cover her needs. Yes, at 7 years old. And she handles money pretty good now, thanks to the early experience. There have been times when John got behind in his payments, and things got a little tight, but I've gone to the courthouse with him and watched him write a check for the full past due amount, then handed it right back to him - and ended up with the Circut Clerk telling his clerks that I could do whatever I pleased with the check (no kidding?!). I've got no respect whatsoever for mothers who spend that money on other things, or for the ones who won't get off their asses and go get a job to support their kids instead of wailing because the support check is late.

I'm remarried and we live in the house my Dad and I built. Hubby pays the mortgage payment and taxes and insurance, I pay most of the rest of the bills. He buys my daughter birthday and Christmas gifts, all of the rest of her expenses are taken care of by her father or by me. And boy am I grateful that I earn good money, cause teenage girls are expensive!! I could spend a lot less than I do, but I reckon I could spend more, too.

Children are as expensive of a proposition as you'll let them be. You can raise a child for considerably less than Ken's figures, I think. Money never even entered my mind when considering to have a child - reckon I just figured that I'd always gotten by, and always would. I've been dirt poor and I've been fairly comfortable financially while my daughter has been growing up. I've found that if I level with her about finances, she adapts - just as I do - without whining. For instance - we could either go to Oklahoma and see Ryan graduate, or I could pay for a ball gown for homecoming. She chose the trip (which shows a lot of maturity, I think), then worked out a deal with her Dad to pay for a dress out of her wages, and is also picking up a little extra cash hauling the nephews around to ball games, etc.. I was never allowed to work outside the house when I was in high school - My mother didn't want me taking a job some other kid might need for school clothes or whatever. I took over some of Mom's chores, instead, giving her free time - something more precious than money coming in.

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), September 09, 2000.

Hey, don't dump on me. These are not my figures. But then, they don't seem that different from other reports I have seen. If $100 a week seems comfortable, that's $5,200 year, or $93,600 from birth to 18.

I don't argue a child can be raised for less. If it is breast-fed for at least the first year, that eliminates formula. If cloth diapers are used, that eliminates disposables. If hand-me-downs or other used clothing are used, it largely eliminates retail. If schools use a uniform or kids are homeschooled, it largely eliminates the need for 'trendy' clothing to be part of the clique. If their first vehicle is a pickup with 100,000 miles, it largely eliminates the cost of providing a modern one. If most of their food at home comes from pastures, coops, cages, the orchard or the garden, it reduces retail at the supermarket.

I mentioned it was an average, probably on a bell-shaped curve. For each of you having out-of-pocket expenses of $2,000 year, there's probably another preppy family with $20,000 a year.

By the way. As a source of used clothing I went to a sale at a storage locker today. Piles of clothing were going for a buck or two. I have largely stopped going to estate auctions since, at least locally, prices have gone so high I cannot make my desired 100% profit. eBay may be the cause, but then I admit I'm as guilty as anyone else. However, storage lockers continue to sell cheap. Used washers and dryers were going for less than $50. I came home with a 16' cattle trailer full of mostly dressers for a bit over $200. Also included a nice couch I bought for $15.00, which I'm going to try to get $75 for. Some of the dressers need a bit of work, which I can do. A rough rule of thumb on them is they sell for $10 per drawer, give or take. But then, when you buy one for $12 and sell it for $40, that is still a pretty nice short-term return.

To illustrate this point. Say you buy something for $10 and sell it within a week for $15, for a $5 profit. You do that every week. On your original $10 you have made $260 in profits. My math might not be right, but I think that's 2,600% return-on-investment.

Yard sale prices have also gone up, but if you pick and choose carefully there is still money to be made from them since sometimes people simply don't know what they have and I don't feel particularly obligated to tell them they have under-priced something.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), September 09, 2000.

if anything i think that the figure is to low. why because on a homestead you share yourselves with your kids not money. but as was mentioned many parents just give a kid a twenty for no reason but to get them out of the house so they won't be a bother. you multiply this many times over and it doesn't take long to run up a pretty big bill in 18 years. also did that figure include child or day care until the parents could get them into school as an unpaid babysitter?

I know that growing up after my dad died the most wanted thing from my mom was her not a dollar to get something but her. and i know of many kids today that they are lucky to get the money because they sure are not going to get time and attention from their parents unless they do something wrong and the parents are then unble to ignore them at that time. but does the attention come in love or threats about how bad they are to be interfering with the parents lives.

i really believe that kids would prefer love rather than just money but how often is that what they are offered? I guess i am blessed in that my neice and nephew know that they are loved even by a grumpy old uncle. I am still amazed that last summer they opted to come visit me for two weeks instead of some kinda tourist place like disneyland or what ever both are in highschool and really made me love them all the more cause they wanted to be with me. I just wish that more kids had that type of love for and from their own parents. gail t

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef123@hotmail.com), September 10, 2000.

To get back to the original thread. Does anyone remember when Ed Sullivan used to introduce mothers (in his tv audience) of TWENTY ONE children? And they got a huge applause?! (Today theyd probably get stoned! But then so would Ed, probably (:-(

Anyway. Things (times) change, and people with them. Thats part of what I call PC, political correctness (yes, someone did ask what PC meant). On a Large Family forum, anybody against children would be blasted off. On an anti-child forum, the opposite. Here, we can hear both sides.

BUT. Although I wanted 12 kids (coming from an old Catholic farm family where that was normal) and Di quit at 4 (which is still way too many according to some, but I could never decide which ones to throw back--- most of the time) I can honestly say we NEVER considered, much less worried about, the cost. I honestly have no idea what we spent on those kids. And I honestly dont care. And I seriously doubt that, had we NOT spent that $177,700 per (or whatever) wed be any wealthier today. (Especially since we never had that much to start with! Which makes such numbers very suspect, indeed.)

Whoever said (on this thread) that some people should have NO children, while others should have many, got it right. It takes certain qualities to be a good parent. And good parents to make good children.

So---once again---there are no snap answers.---jd

-- Jd (jbelanger@tds.net), September 10, 2000.

I will attempt to answer this one when I have more time, which is not now. Maybe a thought for another thread, but what do YOU consider wealth? 4 kids, most through college, 1 Doctor (mechanical engineering). One a special ed teacher. One in gov't service. One in insurance heirachy! Guess who is not the college graduate! All good kids, all different. All different abilities. None considers money=success. I think I have done my job!

-- Brad (Homefixer@SacoRiver.net), September 11, 2000.

My kids didn't cost me one dime that I wouldn't have spent on something else less valuable.

The cost of raising a child? What is the cost of NOT raising them?

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), September 15, 2000.