Disturbing news report

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I wanted to cry and vomit at the same time as I watched the morning news .They just arrested a man on child porn. charges and on his computor they found pictures of a little girl between 4-6 being assulted.How in the world could some do something like that ?

They think they know who she is .The little girl disappeared 3 years ago .I don't know wether to hope she is alive or safe with the lord .I can't imagine how her family feels .I wish this man rots in hell and all the others like him .

Sorry to get you all down . This serves as a reminder no matter where we live to keep an extra eye on are kids .Also talk to them about what to do if a stranger approaches .I am guilty myself for being to comfortable living in the boonies .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 08, 2000

Answers

Patty, I have tears in my eyes after reading your post. But isn't it nice to have a place where you can write about your concerns. One of the few good things about talk shows is they teach you how to teach your children to be safe. Oprah anyway. The main things: make lots of noise, run, take the keys, stick something in the ignition switch, never let them take you to the second place. Of course, this doesn't help really young children. One guy is now telling parents not to tell your children not to talk to strangers. He says that if they start talking early enough, they'll learn to discern better who is o.k. Women are usually safer to talk to.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), September 08, 2000.

It is disturbing and unfortunately it's hit us closer to home: our neighbor was arrested for molesting his girlfriend's daughter. I think of all the times my girls were out in the yard running around in bathing suits and my three year old who would constantly sneak under the porch to strip her clothes off then run out naked. (No matter how much I tried to get her to keep her clothes on, she'd get them off as soon as turned my back to get the baby, etc.) An employee of my uncle's was caught spending 6 hours of his work day logged onto child porn sites, begged forgiveness and patience only to be caught at it again. He has a young daughter of his own to top it off. Makes me sick, but it is prevelant. We were warned about men at the racetrack we spent the last two summers at who were arrested for sexual abuse of children as well. Some may think it paranoid, but my kids are rarely away from me and only with those I trust implicitly( they are homeschooled). It's not always the strangers who get them.

-- Epona (staceyb@myway.com), September 08, 2000.

Epona:

I believe you will find it is seldom strangers. In the high majority of case it is a trusted friend or family member.

Studies have confirmed at least girls who are molested at children have significantly higher incidences of drug and alcohol abuse, promiscuity, prostitution and failed marriages.

Is there more of it today than in the past? Probably not. It's just that dirty little family secrets are coming into the open.

Can someone total train their children. No. One of the national news programs a couple of years ago had a segment in which, with the cooperation of the parent, someone went into a park to lure out small children by asking for help to locate a lost puppy. Almost all of those approached went with him, dispite training to avoid strangers by their parents.

Even those who homeschool may want to have their children go through a 'good touch, bad touch' program.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), September 08, 2000.


As an investigative reporter for more than the past 20 years, those are the kinds of stories I HATE to cover....

Others on this post are right....Most of the time the molester is a family member or someone the child knows....

Some people in our society are WORSE THAN SICK and I don't know what the answer is. The terrible things I have to write about that people do to other people....

-- Suzy in 'Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), September 08, 2000.


Hi Ken,I agree, my daughters are trained in apropriate touching. I had heard of that story and always tell my kids that adults don't need to ask kids for directions or need their help finding things. Amongst their first words, private parts were taught along with belly, nose, eye, etc. I try not to be too paranoid because of my backround, but I keep a watchful eye and encourage my girls to speak out freely anytime they feel their person is being disrespected. One example was when my husband kiddingly slapped my oldest's butt, she cried and told him she didn't like it, he said he was just having fun, but I backed her up and told him it was not a light matter if it offended her. Point blank: he was not to do it again. My kids are respectful of adults, get along well with other kids, but speak freely when they feel they are wronged. Some adults don't like it, but hey, my nephew who is taught none of that is allowed to hang around men who drink alot and he is suddenly dropping his pants and exposing himself to anyone. Better safe then sorry. And, no, it probably isn't any worse then in the past,that family secrets are just coming out more- I know I was told to keep it a secret: "family matters stay in the family".

-- Epona (staceyb@myway.com), September 08, 2000.


Our society is sick- and those of us who don't like it that way are labeled as 'homophobic', well, maybe we have something worth bieng afraid of here! Legitimate fear or concern as in a rattlesnake wrapped around your leg- is not a phobia. These predators want to normalize their behavior and make it an everyday occurence-ever heard of NAMBLA? Anyway, yes, most molesters are family members, and ladies, that means your husband. I cannot tell you how many girls have continued to be molested because the mother thought the girl was "making it up", and "he would never do something like that".Still others have imagined that the daughter was "trying to steal my husband". How sad.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), September 08, 2000.

Suzy , the answer to stopping these scum is to kill them ! Some may disagree, but to me there is no worse crime than to hurt a young child who cannot defend themselfs . Yes we need to tell them to say no run and not keep quiet no matter who tells them to , even Daddy sorry to say .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 08, 2000.

Rebekah:

Unfortunately there is a third category to add to your list. Wives who say to themselves, "Well, if he is doing it to her, he isn't seeking it from me."

Within the past couple of weeks there was a case in Nashville, TN to where a either father or stepfather encouraged his friends to have sex with his pre-teen daughter. He convinced himself she was sexually active, so why shouldn't his friends have fun also. Something like a dozen or more men have been arrested as a result, ranging in age from the 40s to teenagers. Mother didn't know anything about it since it happened while she was at work and the daughter didn't say anything. Why not, who knows?

In prisons there is a certain pecking order based on crimes committed. I have been told sex offenses against children are at the bottom of that order. I suspect they will find out what being raped is all about.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), September 08, 2000.


Ken , I heard of the same pecking order in prison I can only hope its true and the guards turn there backs !Any mother who knows this is going on and does nothing is no mother and should also prosicuted [sp].As for the father letting his friends have sex with his daughter , he needs to be neutered to put it nicely .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 08, 2000.

I have been debating about sharing this, and decided to, in hopes that it might prevent someone else from having a similar problem. We had moved onto a couple of rural acres with our three small girls, and were immediately befriended by the elderly fellow across the road. In his seventies, he had had heart surgery, was raising registered Montadale sheep to show, and was leader of two 4-H clubs, as well as being grandfather of seven or so children. We were pleased that he encouraged our two older daughters to visit him. Two years after we left there, we found out that he'd been molesting the oldest girl, then about eight. We were in another state, so notified the police in his area, but to this day don't know what if anything came of it -- he may not have even still been alive. We didn't pursue prosecution because we didn't want to put our daughter through that. The moral of the story is never, never allow your small children to spend time alone with anyone you don't know REALLY well -- and even then, you need to be careful. And age, physical disability, and general niceness does not mean that they aren't hiding something from you. I suspected at the time that he may also have been molesting a neighbor's adopted daughter -- it seems hard to think that someone can hurt little children like that and get away with it, then I remember that he will eventually have to face God, and I know he won't get away with it, but I can't find it in my heart to pity him for where he is spending eternity. I am thankful that we have a JUST God, as well as a merciful one.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 08, 2000.


Kathleen , thanks for sharing with us and my heart goes out to you as a mother .Just think you being brave enough to share that may save another child from going through that pain .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 08, 2000.

Ken, I've heard of that pecking order too...I've heard that those incarcerated for violating children don't go in "general population" too much...you know what I think would be a good idea? To put all those guilty of such...on a remote, shark-infested island....with no boat, no car, no luxury, no NOTHING and let them tough it out there. They would then be free to rape, pillage, and hurt each other at free will. We hear stories like this...and our hearts cry out; what on earth is happening? I know molestation, incest, and the like have gone on forever...i am not slighting it...but ANYMORE...you hear about BABIES being violated, for crying out loud! I also believe...I consider myself a believer in Christ....and that homosexuality is violating the laws of both God and nature...but I firmly believe that alot of homosexuals are that way because they were molested, violated, sexually broken at a young age...and that in their broken sexuality, homosexuality is a "hiding place" of sorts. Anyway...thats my 2 cents worth....

-- Beth weber (talmidim88@hotmail.com), September 08, 2000.

ATTENTION- with regard to this please red the following. This was sent to me yesterday. If you are on an egroups mailing list please e- mail them and Yahoo as they are now the owners of Egroups. If there is enough pressure, maybe these kind of things can be stopped.

Little Bit farm-----

From: candylanell@aol.com To: GoodLife@egroups.com Date: Thursday, September 07, 2000 2:03 PM Subject: [GoodLife] PLEASE READ, URGENT

> >SORRY FOR ALL THE CROSS POSTS...THIS IS IMPORTANT THAT WE GET IT OUT!!! > > > ><< Subj: THIS MUST STOP NOW! > Date: 9/6/00 11:19:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time > From: PA Mom 2 a bunch > > > To all of you who are getting this email, I want you to please sit down and >read it. ALL of it. There is information contained here that all of you must >know. A lot of you already know, but chose to do nothing. > > A few days ago, it was brought to our attention that there are porno sites >at eGroups.com. Porno is one thing, but we found some with CHILDREN on them. >Yes, pictures of 5 and 6 year olds. Do you have children? How old are they? >Imagine, just imagine......if that was YOUR child in that picture. How would >YOU feel? How would that CHILD feel? > > So, in knowing this, we (the Mothers) had emailed eGroups. Not just once, >mind you, but MANY times. MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANY times. Did we hear from them? >Hell no. Not a "thank you", "go away", "we're handling it"....NOTHING! So >then we went to that one group and started bombarding it with emails and >posts to let those perverts know just how disgusting they are. THEN we sent >eGroups an email letting them know that they had until Wednesday (9/6/2000) >to get that group out of there or we would email CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, Oprah, >the FBI, the White House....and the list goes on. > > THEY claim that they can't do anything about it because they do not monitor >content. Oh, really? Then WHY is it when I send something to the groups that >I'm in promoting a 'click for points' deal, the jump my tookus and call it >SPAM? Then they threaten to close down any lists that I'm on because of it. >Does that make sense to any of you? Perhaps eGroups would prefer that I put a >picture of a helpless six year old girl on there. THEN they would find it >acceptable? Ya think? Hmmmm......... > > This only started out with one group that we found....but then we found a >few more. THEN I got an idea and decided to make a fake email addy at hotmail >(sorry guys, but if eGroups isn't going to help, someone had to do >it......and it might as well be Earl........"Good-Bye Earl") I joined these >groups to obtain the email addresses and anything that I could to help get >these people shut down and hopefully arrested. Lucky for them, there is no >way for me to find out where they live or I would have hunted them down like >the low-down dirty pond scum that they are and THEY would be the ones to >suffer.......for a long time. I guarantee you that. > > Tonight we stumbled across another web-site which is more disturbing than >the others. There are 2 and 3 year olds on there. Yes....BABIES! LITERALLY! >And the things they are doing to them.........I'm not even going to say. But >I will say that it brought tears to my eyes and made me sick to my stomach. >These photos have been printed out along with the names and e's of those who >submitted them. They will be turned into the FBI in a day or so. > > Now, for those of you who are sitting there wondering why YOU are getting >this.... > The sponsors.......and you know which ones you are. Some of the sponsors >were notified claiming that they can choose which groups the banners are >placed on. > > Well, agabaga.com & debtconsolitdation.com, YOU are on the page of the >sickest group so far! Are you aware of this? YOU are more or less PROMOTING >child pornography! Knowing this, it will be a cold day in hell when I or any >of my friends pop on to your site. I don't want to hear that you didn't know >what location you were on. That's no excuse. Are you going to tell me that >you're just going to sponsor some unknown subject? If *I* was handing out >money, I would certainly want to know what it was supporting. Guess you >better get your people in check. > > The news people......thank you for reading thus far. We all know that media >is the way to get things dealt with. Should we allow this? Allow all the >excuses from eGroups for why people can traffic such trash on there? I think >not. > > Government places........this is your job to control punishment for. YOU are >the ones who can arrest them and see that they never lay eyes on another >child again. PLEASE help us with this. We're begging. > > I'm sending this to everyone......EVERYONE. So they can all see who gets to >see it. Then we'll all get to see who stands by and watches while NOTHING >gets done. We're doing our best here and honestly, we're doing EGROUPS JOB >and not getting a damn dime for it. > > Though it goes against best judgement to place the following information in >this email, I'm going to do it. > > Below you will find the names of the groups on eGroups as well as the email >addies I have found on those groups, with some listing what the person has >done. > I have given you the information. It is up to you what you do with it. >However, be advised that we will NOT give up the fight. We will continue to >send emails, make phone calls, send faxes.........protest and down right >bitch until this is stopped. > > eGroups, you have been warned. I told you I would notify these people. I >have done just that. I don't want to hear excuses now. Not when you couldn't >even ACKNOWLEDGE that I sent you an email. As a matter of fact, I just might >take all my groups with me should you decide to ban me from eGroups in my >protest. My protest will not stop. OUR protest will not stop. *I* may >be gone but my friends, MOTHERS, will be here.... > > To those who provide email services, these people are on YOUR email server. >DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM! AOL, I know I'm on your email server...and if I'm >going to be punished for this letter, look up my number and call me. We'll >discuss this situation. Remember, it is YOU who said you can protect the AOL >users. Can you REALLY? Not from the email addies I have gotten. > > To my friends, I thank you also for reading this far and I thank you for >standing by us in this fight. Keep my address on hand incase I'm banned from >eGroups. And remember that no matter what, as MOTHERS, it's our job to >protect our children no matter what the cost. > > Any questions or comments? Email me. > > Thank you, > Tiffany A Lockard > Mom to 5 > > CC: Dateline, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, ABC, Philadelphia FBI, uBid.com, Birthday >Express, Netsetter.com, iBelieve.com, DebtConsolidation.com, Agabaga.com, The >White House, Meet The Press, America Online, The Today Show, NBC Nightly >News, Oprah.......and all my friends. > > KEEP READING! THIS IS THE INFO! > > ~~KIDS_N_SEX > Pino_Portman@hotmail.com > rocketmanzzz@aol.com > bcruddy@hotmail.com > needfulthings_69@hotmail.com > spawnv@bol.com (requests pre-teen females) > beegood2me@hotmail.com > MODERATOR--underagelover@wowmail.com--ATTN; EVERYONE.NET!!! > > ~~10to14girls@egroups.com > bsymms@inreach.com > fliptwick@webtv.net (photos of underage girls....maybe 6 or 7 yrs old?) > nakedinmo@hotmail.com (uploaded files/photos of girls underage) > travisbick@yahoo.com (promotes another site) > > ~~Youngpicposts-- > ianewoods@hotmail.com--has zing album of questionable content. > http://fortunecity.zing.com/album/?id=4293696703&code=446872&mode=invi te > (password is: boxerboy) > weelass@freedom.net > Rasman14@yahoo.com > died2000@hotmail.com > bare4u@hotmail.com > mikey13iny2k@hotmail.com > halli61@hotmail.com > noch9@yahoo.com > pimpdogmel@aol.com > brosefilm@aol.com > > ~~notoriousyoungones@egroups.com > 1p5Az3@thefreesite.com > denlaw54@aol.com > **J Elder is clearly posting pictures of a 12 year old named Adriana. >Message 174 is just ONE of the many posted! > > maclong@hotmail.com > e6x@email.com > dobbin65@hotmail.com > dragonfly8@aol.com > bimimi619@hotmail.com > dexxx2@yahoo.com > bare4u@hotmail.com (posted a 10 year old) > aallaann7@hotmail.com > >

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), September 08, 2000.


Don't ever, EVER, EVER, download and print a child pornography photo, even with the intent of turning it into your local police, or the FBI. If you do this, you have just committed a felony.....AND, if the feds shut the site down, and start tracing who has downloaded from the site, you could find yourself in front of a U.S. Attorney trying to explain your motives. If you come across a site that has child pornographic images, note the site address, and turn that in to your local PD. If you want to go federal, U.S. Customs and the FBI are the ones to contact.

-- Julie (rjbk@together.net), September 08, 2000.

Unfortunatey,alot of us "support" porn and don't even realize it.I subscribe to Technology Investor and they ran an article about all the phone companies getting involved in porn on the internet(phone- line wise).My long-distance carrier AT&T had just signed a deal with one of the online porn sites according to this article and needless to say I changed my service that day.The customer service rep had no idea that they were involved in porn channels when I told her the reason for my dumping them.Now,I don't know if this porn sites has kiddie porn on it or not but I hate all porn.

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), September 09, 2000.


Rebekah: "homophobia" refers specifically to the fear or hatred of gays. Also, the word "phobia", by definition, means an unreasonab;e fear, not a legitimate one. (Example: a fear of paper would be considered unreasonable, and therefore a phobia, whereas a fear of snakes or lightening, which could actually be harmful, would be considered reasonable & therefore NOT a phobia). Pedophiles are adults who exploit children for their own sexual satisfaction. Pedophiles and homosexuals are not in the same category (of sexual deviants). The vast majority of pedophiles are HETEROSEXUAL, even though they may be men who are assaulting boys. IN their adult sex life, they are straight. I repeat, the vast majority of sex offenders are straight. To put plain old gay folks in the same category as sexual predators is unfair and incorrect. You may not agree with the gay lifestyle, but to lump them in with true sexual deviants is to diminish the seriousness of real sex offenders & their crimes.

-- Shannon (Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary) (gratacres@aol.com), September 09, 2000.

Shannon: OK, I will grant that not all gays are sex offenders, but where did you get the info that says that the vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual? What about NAMBLA, which wants to normalize sex between adult men and little boys? Dr. Laura is always ranting about them (rightfully, I think), and look at how the gays are trying to shut her up! No free speech for her, I guess. I'm not trying to downplay child abuse, merely trying to say that I think that one form of deviancy is quite likely to lead to other forms, and our children can be the victims! When there are no standards of normal, anything goes, and unfortunately, it might be with our own dear sons or daughters. I saw an upsetting article on this subject, but will have to look for it.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), September 09, 2000.

Shannon, I am confused. You say "the vast majority of pedoghiles are heterosexual, even though they may be men who are assaulting boys". "In their adult sex life, they are straight". I beg to differ. That is like saying, the vast majority of murderers are law abiding citizens, even though in their "act of crime" they commit murder. Huh?!?!? If you commit a sexual act on a child, and one of the same gender, you are a child rapist and a homosexual. Would you give the same deference to someone who rapes an animal? "The vast majority of animal rapists are straight, in their non-animal rapists' mode they are straight, preferring sex with the opposite sex, (human, that is.)".

Sounds pretty silly I guess, but I am offended that anyone would even feel the need to define (defend) the difference. I could care less if they are straight or gay as far as having sexual contact with a child. I think that by affording this horrendous, vile act with a "title" like pedophile, even diminishes the evil act being committed. Lets call people who have sex with children what they are... perverted, twisted, deviant child rapists! And afford them all the deserved consequences that accompany's such behavior.

As far as using the word homophobia, I do not believe it was any other than the gay rights advocates who decided to use term against any who would personally object to the gay lifestyle. Certainly it is used incorrectlly, but not by those on the receiving end of this word usage. It is a powerful tool, being used to diminish and discount any and all oppostition.

As a side note, if there are any here that might support the ACLU, you might consider they have chosen to represent NAMBLA, free of charge, in a case having to do with the parents of a murdered child (boy, age 10, I think)suing NAMBLA. Based on the fact that the murdering, child rapist was a member and visisted frequently the web site of NAMBLA. UGH?!! Isnt having sex with a child against the law? Anyway, check it out for yourself, in case I have let off anything concerning all the facts of this case. But it leaves me shaking my head. God Bless all of you parents who care enough to "guard" your children and recognize the increased need to do so. Wendy

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), September 10, 2000.


NAMBLA is an organization of pedophiles, not of gays. Certainly, some gays are also pedophiles, but the terms "gay" and "child molester" are not interchangeable. Just like not all hunters are poachers, and not all pot smokers are drug addicts, and not all parents who spank are child beaters. The distinctions are important. Someone gave an example of saying that a murderer could be said to be a law-abiding citizen in their "other" life...and that's not so far-fetched. Not all people who kill other people are crazed serial killers. And while killing people is bad, shouldn't we make the distinction between a serial killer and a person who kills an intruder in their home, or someone who kills in self-defense? Sure, they're both "murderers", but there's a difference. To suggest that the two murderers are equally evil is wrong. Likewise, to suggest that gays are as evil as pedophiles is also wrong. To do so is the same as saying that all hunters are bad because some are poachers, and all pot smokers are bad because some are also drug addicts. My point is, you can't condemn gays simply because some of them are pedophiles. The term gay & pedophile are not synonymous, just like hunter & poacher are not. And it is a FACT that most child molesters are straight, but of course we don't suggest that straightness & pedophilia are linked!

-- Shannon (Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary) (gratacres@aol.com), September 10, 2000.

All child molesters are SICK and sorry in my book should be put to death , and yes I would gladly pull the trigger !And pot smokers are drug addicts , isn't pot an addictive drug ?

My point of this post was to remind all of us about the sick people out there and to remind us to keep an extra eye out .The news report made me very upset .As it should of to anyone .

I don't beleive in homosexuals , I beleive it's wrong .Would I stone one to death or do anything to hurt them ? No , but if asked I would give my feelings .Yes I also beleive alot of gays were abused as children , not all .

Everyone is entiled to there own options and rightfully so .We do not and will not always agree .Thanks everyone for your input .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 10, 2000.


Shannon, now I am REALLY confused. NAMBLA stands for Man/Boy love association, right? Lets see, MAN....BOY.....Seems to me it is advocating both gay & child sex. If you have sex with the same gender, is not this the prerequisite for being gay? What am I missing? That not ALL gay people want to have sex with children does not even seem to be the question. If you have to point that out to someone, it would be a futile effort, as the level of intellegence needed would be sorely lacking.

The distinction regarding murderers was not made "between" two murderers, and which is more evil. The point was that if one is a murderer "during" the act of committing murder, they remain a murderer even while not currently "murdering" someone. If you "murder" someone, you are rightly defined as a murderer.

Now there is a distinction between "killing" and "murdering". To "kill" someone to keep them form "murdering" your child/spouse/whatever, is certainly different than setting out to commit evil in the form of murder. Does that not seem obvious?

Regarding NAMBLA, so far we have yet to see an organized, politically active group of heretosexual adults advocating sex with CHILDREN. Does it happen? Of course! But having sex with children is currently illegal. NAMBLA wants to change this. They identify themselves as the MAN/BOY love association. This tells me two things 1) They want to have sex with children. 2) They are gay. Most any person in thier right mind would oppose ANY group, straight or gay, who would work towards this goal.

My concern is not that some dolt might think ALL gays are child rapists, it is more geared towards condeming the act itself, regardless of who perpetrates the crime. If we devoted as much energy to protecting our children as we do to making sure everyone "thinks" correct politically, think what might be accomplished! God Bless! Wendy

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), September 10, 2000.


Patty, I did not mean to get off track here (I was posting at the same time you were). I really was trying to get back on track with my first post. To be faced with such horrible information and then choose to dwell on "degrees" or "distinctions" of homosexuality was truly offensive to me. You are correct, it is about a horrible, vile act committed upon a child. We must all gaurd and protect these little ones, no matter who would cause them harm. God Bless! Wendy

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), September 10, 2000.

Wendy: my point exactly. Pedophilia is not a degree or type of homosexuality. Pedophilia and homosexuality are two completely different things, and if you want to talk about being offended, let me say that I am offended by people who put the two in the same category. To suggest that gays are as deviant, dangerous, or evil as pedophiles is to minimize the sickness and evilness of pedophilia. You may not like or agree with the gay lifestyle, but to put it in the same category with something as disgusting as pedophilia is unfair. Most gays, like most heterosexuals, are sane, functional, contributing members of society, who are disgusted by the notion of sex with children. Being gay is not about sexual perversion. Most gays have the same values about monogamy, fidelity, and parenting as straight people do. I guess what I'm trying to do here is to dispel the notion that appears in this thread that gay are freaks & perverts on the same level as child molesters. That is simply not true. Pornographers, child molesters, rapists, and any other sexual deviants can be gay or straight. Being gay does not pre-dispose you to being a pervert.

-- Shannon (Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary) (gratacres@aol.com), September 10, 2000.

Shannon, I do not see it as your point exaclty. My comment regarding "degrees or distinctions" refers to your original post that contained the comment "The vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual, even though they may be men who are assaulting boys". The point here is obvious. If they are of the same gender, it is necessarily "homosexual" in nature. You then went on to say "In their adult sex life, they are straight". I consider this to be "degrees or distinctions". I did not imply nor suggest that homosexuals are child molesters. But what I did suggest is that your "distinction" regarding men who have sex with boys (one brand of pedophilia), is not homosexual sex, is trivial and demeaning to the serious sexual abuse of children. As well as false. If it is the same sex, it is homosexual. Regardless of the age involved. If an adult heterosexual has sex with a child (opposite gender), it is heterosexual in nature. This seems so obvious to me, I am wondering what the confusion is.

Had you made the comment that not ALL homosexuals are child rapists, I would not have bothered to respond. It's one of those "here's your sign" things. But to focus on these "distinctions" regarding "an adult man who assaults boys being straight in thier adult sex life", is offensive to me. Who cares?? Children are being hurt. Our concern should be focused on that. I resent the notion that we must be "educated" towards homosexuality. Lets "educate" ourselves and each other towards protecting children from vile, deviant sexual predators. Whatever their sexual preference. God Bless! Wendy

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), September 10, 2000.


If I can offer a compromise check out the definition of sodomy. Even then it depends on how consentual it is. I beleive most states now have the law sexual intercourse with a child under the age of 13 is rape, consentual or not. But even here there are qualifiers. In TN one party would have to be two years older than the other.

After the age of 13 it becomes murky with charges such as sodomy and contributing to the deliquency of a minor coming into play, coupled with how consentual it was. No all sex acts between adults and children quality for the legal definition of rape.

If have seen research report most men who sexually abuse children were also abused as children. However, this is totally, in my opinion, different than homosexuality. I am coming to believe more and more guys and lesbians are predominately born with a predisposition to their future lifestyle and very little can be done to change it.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), September 12, 2000.


I think Shannon's point is this: Sex between two consenting adults is not wrong or deviant, regardless of their gender. Safety and trust are not violated in adult homosexual relations, so it is irresponsible to confuse the gay lifestyle with molestation. In the last few decades, homosexuality has slowly become an accepted type of human interaction, although there are some who haven't yet accepted that fact. It's similar to the civil rights process. There are still fringe groups who think diversity is a threat. Generally, its the people who declare homosexuality as wrong who are out of the norm. If you don't think it's true, wait a few years for the picture to come into focus. Child molestation, on the other hand, will never be "normal", and will continue to be punished severely, if only after the fact. The question is how do we prevent it from happening at all? Chasing shadows is not the answer. Demonizing people who are different than us will only make it easier for the real criminals. I am lucky enough to have been born straight. I've never been beaten up or rejected by my own family for my sexuality, and can only imagine what that is like.

-- Allen Giese (algies@hotmail.com), September 12, 2000.

Whew! Wish you all were around 49 years ago. I could have used some help. He was awful big and strong (he was 10 yrs old). Oh well, I try to be strong in the broken places now. Glad this subject is being addressed. I kept a terrible secret all those years and no one (except victims) can imagine how I suffered. People know that adolesence is hard. Try going through that with the burden of those awful secrets too. A lucky few of us found a way to communicate our pain and release some of the agony and trip forward towards healing. I believe that most of us victims just crawl away and die in various ways and on different time-lines. Now I have to get through the rest of this day telling myself "it's not my fault, it's not my shame and it is the year 2000 not 1952 and I am a grownup now. I can take care of myself." Bless all those who DO SOMETHING to fight the abuse. Thanks for listening. Susan

-- Susan Bisard (cobwoman@yahoo.com), September 12, 2000.

Susan , when adults take advantage of children they are the only ones at fault .You and many other children did anything wrong , it wasn't your fault or theres .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 12, 2000.

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