I've been thinking of getting a surplus army tent to use as a temporary shelter till I get my house built. I had the idea to insulate it with Reflectix (foil covered bubble wrap) for the fall and maybe winter. I've got a few questions about this idea:

Does anyone out there have experience with living in an army tent?

Do the tents hold up well in storms?

Is canvas or nylon better?

How sturdy are the used ones generally?

Can I live in it through the winter? (I'm in northern West Virginia)

Would it be practical to set it up on some kind of deck or flooring?

Is it better to use wood poles or metal?

I have no experience with these things so whatever you can tell me is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, N

-- Norma C Payne (110033.2531@compuserve.com), August 09, 2000

Answers

Hi, Norma! I do have quite a bit of experience with these tents. We had a couple of the round ten-man tents when I was growing up in Alaska that we used for hunting and camping trips. Then my husband and I got a command post tent (about 10' x 20') and used that for camping for a couple of years. I will say that the command post tent was very heavy -- it was all the two of us could do to set it up (the children were still too small to help). Also, the material is treated with something, probably to shed water, fireproof it, and prevent rot, and the smell is awful. You have to be careful buying a used tent as some of the army surplus ones have a lot of holes in them. My uncle, in Alaska, used to have a little store where he sold surplus stuff, and one tent he picked up had so many holes in it that they ended up useing it for a smoke house for all the salmon they got from the fish wheel -- it had plenty of holes to let the smoke out!! So make sure you either buy from a reputable catalog source, or examine the tent carefully before you buy it. I would recommend wood poles. I think metal ones would be dangerous in case of a lightening strike. Also, you can put a few nails into a wood pole to hang stuff up. Most of these tents have a stovepipe opening, so you can put a wood stove in them for winter use. Be careful about the stove you use -- too big a stove could catch your tent on fire. The arctic tents have liners, which you would probably have to purchase separately, and will be more comfortable in cold weather. If they are properly erected, and staked down tight, they should hold through most storms. I wouldn't give any tent a 100% guarantee -- some storms even knock houses down -- and you don't want to set it up under trees, where you could have branches falling on you. Also, don't set it up in a low spot that will collect water after a rainfall. I think that canvas is safer than nylon if you are going to be using a stove. Canvas will burn, though as already mentioned I believe these tents have a fire-retardent in the canvas, but nylon melts. The only two advantages nylon has are lighter weight, which isn't really an issue if you are just going to set the tent up and leave it in one place, and rot resistance. But even a used tent will survive a year or so of steady use and by then you should have a house up, hopefully! Yes, it would be practical to set it on a deck - - I've seen a number of semi-permanent installations done this way. Saves going to bed with dirty feet! Just make sure to put a hearth under your stove. And, yes, you can live through the winter in one. It won't be as comfortable as a house, obviously, but it can be done. A family in Tok, Alaska, which is one of the coldest spots in the state, spent their first winter there in an army tent -- actually, I think they may have had two joined together. Anyway, they had three children, one still in diapers -- what fun when the diaper pail freezes solid! And they made it just fine. We knew them when we were there. I think, if I remember correctly, that they insulated their tents by piling brush and snow on top of them. I don't think this would work in West Virginia. If you use your foil- covered bubble wrap for insulation, first do a flammability test of the stuff, and if there is ANY question about the safety, don't use it. You can put another tarp over the tents, as a sort of rain fly, and maybe pile hay/straw bales up around the outside of the tent walls if you expect really cold weather (I don't know how cold the winters are likely to get down there). Surprisingly, baled hay and straw are NOT very flammable, so that is a safe alternative. I would put a fly over the front of the tent for an entrance and outdoor kitchen. Do be aware that you will need to store all food and scraps away from the tent and too high for a bear to reach. A house may keep them out, a tent won't, even if you are present in the tent. And many other smaller critters will raid your supplies, too, so build a box for your food that can be raised up into a tree out of reach. If you check the library for older camping books, you will see instructions for things like that, and camp furniture made from what you can find in the area, and so on. You won't find that kind of information in the newer low-impact camping books. Sounds like you are about to do what we plan to do. Let us know how you do!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), August 09, 2000.

As an alternative consider a used single wide mobile home. Some are pretty badly beaten up, but liveable. When the house is ready it can either be hauled off or used as a workshop or something if codes permit. I knew a couple who did this years ago. Didn't want it after the house was ready and couldn't find anyone to haul it off free. Since they had a dozer there for final landscaping they had the operator dig a hole, crush the mobile home, shove it into the hole then buried it. I did something similar. I bought a three acre lot with a partically burned house on it. With the consent of the local Foresty Official and notification to the local fire department and sheriff's office, I burned it the rest of the way. When the dozer was there to do clearing work, he buried whatever was left, which wasn't a lot besides foundation, chimney and roofing tin. Except for the trees, you can't even tell a house was there.

-- Ken S. (scharabo@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

A simple two room building made of cinder block with a built in "out" house or one of those bucket toilets (see the Humanure books) would more than suffice most folks (our forefathers got by on much less, ususally) and if the block is scrounged it could be as cheap or cheaper than a tent. The main room would house the living and dining areas with a curtained off shower/bathing area in a corner near the stove for warmth in the winter and ease of hot water access, while the smaller room would be for sleeping and food storage (underbed shelving is a seriously good use of space. A rainwater cachement (perhaps a feedlot water tank fed by guttering) for bathing and other uses obviates the need for seroius water lugging (drinking water can come from city parks if there is a dearth of alternate sources, my mother does this as her water is ucky enough to daunt even the strongest constitution) and a judicious use of time and storage organization can make this a perfectly adequate temporary hidey hole, which would then be available as a summer canning kitchen, a work shop, or various other outbuilding uses after the "big house" is up and running. Perhaps a guest room? No need to worry about Gran catching the man of the house in his scivvies and 3 am on the way to the bathroom if she's comfortably ensconced in her own private studio/bedsit.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), August 10, 2000.

with the cost of the tent and if ordering by mail don't forget shipping and handling those tents are heavy some of the alternitives listed above might be a better investment. if you are thinking of living in a tent don't forget the indian tee pee. they are also quite functional and were made for living in of course they don't have to striaght sides like the army tents. for the floor a wood deck would be nice but would really add to the cost. i think a floor as described in $50 underground house might work. basicly a layer of plastic covered with the cheapest carpeting you can find. another alternitive would be the metal storage sheds remember ready in countryside i think in the 70's where a lady and her daughter used one and put styrfoam on the inside for insulation. the main thing i think that if you are even considering a tent to live in that the thing you need to do is really think it through and go for it. but think to that if you wait a little longer you might be able to get better living condiations for about the same money and have something you could use later. a small travel trailer with a lean would be another thing that might work. gail

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef123@hotmail.com), August 10, 2000.

If the first three things put at the building site are electric, septic system and well, those can be used by the temporary quarters while the house is being built.

While the Governor's Mansion in Little Rock is being rehabed, the Governor and family will be living in a triple-wide on the grounds. Has created a round a jokes. For example, will the Governor now be considered trailer park trash?

-- Ken S. (scharabo@aol.com), August 10, 2000.

Cabelas Outdoor company has some nice new wall tents that can be set up for fairly inexpensive. These have a hole that is made for a wood stove, and all kinds of accessories can be purchased, including floors, cook shacks, rain flies. They are on the web at http://www.cabelas.com They have both pre-built and custom built. Have a look. We are moving to Oklahoma, and I have considered setting one up with a nice cement foundation with storm cellar underneath. For stormy areas I would say that steel poles set in concrete make the most sense. Obviously anything can be twisted beyond all recognition in a huge storm or tornado, which is why I would recommend a storm cellar first.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), August 10, 2000.

During my AF career I've spend quite a bit of time in 5, 10 and 20 man tents during deployments. The earlier post is right about the smell of the canvas tents, after a while and expecially when it gets warm those things STINK, I'd recommend you get the nylon fabric.

As far as insulation instead of your Reflectix why dont you use an inch or two of spray-on polyurethane foam (you can get it in large spray cans), it will stiffen the walls (so they dont flap in the wind), provide very good insulation, last just about forever, and helps prevent air infiltration, it wont be very pretty but you will be warm and wont have to be feeding the fire all the time. Polyurethane foam is remarkably strong when it cures and doing this will turn your "temporary" tent into a semi-permanent or permanent structure.

You will need a floor, ground -even in dry conditions- quickly gets all chewed up and then you either get a thick coating of dust everywhere or mud, what has worked well for me has been wooden pallets with plywood nailed to the tops of them. You can also take your spray foam and seal underneath your floor between the pallets and the tent walls, you will also probably want to put some form of regular door in too, living with the flaps can get old quick since the things flap around and let in snow/rain/dust/sand/etc with even little bits of wind.

Whichever stove you get (which can be fairly small if the tent is well insulated and sealed) you should put it on a layer of bricks for fire safety and thermal mass. I'd recommend you put it two feet away from a tent wall and build a backing of either solid concrete blocks or hollow blocks filled with packed sand and paint the blocks black or some other dark color, again for fire safety and thermal mass. Most army surplus stores also should stock the metal flange that keeps the stove pipe away from your fabric, where the heat from the pipe would endanger your foam insulation you can use a layer of perlite or vermiculite with a non-flammable binder (like a can or two of barbeque paint) spread around on the flange.

I prefer the metal poles, the wooden ones joints tend to get kind of sloppy after a short while.

Hope this helps a bit.

Dave

-- Dave (Ak) (daveh@ecosse.net), August 11, 2000.

My idea of a good temporary shelter would be a "Hoop House" made with cattle panels. You could cover the outside with quilted moving pads for insulation and then cover the whole thing with heavy duty nylon tarp. I like the idea about using plywood covered pallets for the floor. The ends of the building could be constructed with wood then you could put in a good weather proof door and you could run your stove pipe through the end also.

One day I am going to build one maybe for a guest house for In-laws.

They had a couple of articles about theese type of buildings in Countyside a few years back. Good Luck!

-- Mark (deadgoatman@webtv.net), August 11, 2000.

Go with Ken.. There is a better way. A slide in over the cab camper with air conditionerheater, cook stove and oven with ice box, closets, double bed, curtains and dining table, water tank, double sink etc. I have one set up for guest. Will sleep four.

Most cost about the same as or less than a command tent. No mud, no stink etc, You can set one on a car hauler trailer and have a patio.

Set it on a concrete pad and build a wall up around it just use the imagination.

Many, Many years ago I knew a lady who built a cinder block garage and back an 8 foot by 30 foot mobile trailer inside. Heating the garage with a wood stove she lay a persian rug on the floor of her outside parlor. I loved it. James

-- James (triquest@about.com), August 12, 2000.

Tents can hold up in storms, but you need to make sure they are secure. When weight is not an issue Canvas is better for winter use, nylon for summer. If looking at government surplus make sure you know what your getting. Do they come with all the wooden poles? Do they come with the rain and snow flys. Are they an old musty smelly piece of canvas that has been setting in a storage builiding for 20 years or is it a new vintage product. The army uses them in all weather condtions, but they are also used by young well conditioned men that cant bitch to much about the cold. I would prefer brusing up against a wood pole on a freezing morning than a metal one.

Have you checked the price of sizable government tent? A 20x20 tent is pretty pricy if its in any kind of condition. I would never buy a gov surplus item without seeing it first and inspecting it. Coleman surplus has GP 16x32 tents for $700. $1400 for new unused tent. The smaller (medium weather ) Temper Frame tent 22x16 is almost $1400.

Add the cost of decking and tent repairs and you may find it more cost effective to find some run down old tailer or camper to live in. I see a number of single wide trailers poping up locally for free to just a few hundred dollars. You do have some transport cost, but that can be kept to a minium. Instead of calling a local trailer mover. Call a towing company and have them move it.

-- Gary (gws@redbird.net), August 15, 2000.