Hello, Greenbeanman. (I always liked that nic) ! I was wondering if there was anything I/we could say that would let you consider some sort of compromise and bring you back to share with us your thoughts feelings and wealth of knowledge ? I think I followed the situation closely enough to realize what happened and I understand the principle involved. I have talked several times with the principality via e-mail to know that he meant no ill will and actually thought your posts might be of service to the world. Legality of it ? I have no idea ! You have always been such a shining example of the homesteader mindset that I am just not willing to dismiss the idea of losing your thoughts without an attempt to reconcile the differences. I think Steve has said that he will print no more posts without consent. Although not a written contract, I would take him at his word myself. In essence you have proved a point and won a victory. I also heard and read, what I believe is a sincere apology. Would this possibly be enough to bring you back, please ??? Although I am sure the world will continue to rotate without people of character and principle, I perfer they are here ! If you can find it in your heart than I would consider it a favor--if not , I understand.

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), July 29, 2000

Answers

After posting this I realized that it sounded like I had addressed this issue with Steve-I have not. I was speaking of e-mails we had exchanged many moons ago and a general feeling I have acquired of his mindset on both sides of an issue. The feelings expressed above are purely my own.

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), July 29, 2000.

Joel, I want you to know that I appreciate your comments. I continue to lurk and post on occasion, but just not as greenbeanman. Doubt I will ever post here under that moniker again unless leaving an email address becomes an option. I'll go along with the wishes of others and the webmaster and not try to change things to have my own way. Don't need that. If I don't like the way things are I'll just part company. As to an apology, none was needed as there was nothing that I could find anywhere stating that our messages wouldn't be printed. So any apology offered, though not needed, is accepted and appreciated. Also Steve states that he is "trying" to contact folks before using posts now which should help with any future situation. Like I said, I'll continue to post with a phoney moniker and fake email address, i.e. unless Steve asks me to discontinue because of the problems fake addresses cause. I probably won't add comments or post as often just becuase I'm not me. LOL. Your loss (I hope I'm viewed that way by others as well.) and my time gain. In one thread there was discussion about having our identities used by others. Well, I can speak from experience, that very thing happened to me. Now I ask you, who in the heck would want to be greenbeanman other than me? Anyway, on the forum where the faux greenbeanman messages were posted I made a statement about identity and all of the other monikers available in this old world, and they had the courtesty of discontinuing use of greenbeanman. While it may seem pretty trivial to most folks, until it has been done to you when you feel that you have a unique moniker, you won't know how I felt. I hear of how "violated" people feel when their home has been burglarized, and that is how I felt, "violated". Thanks again Joel. Lurker and part time poster, greenbeanman, er Notforprint.

-- Notforprint (Not@thekeyboard.com), July 29, 2000.

I honestly tried to walk away from this one. I even turned my computer off, but this really gets on my nerves. If my two year old was behaving like this I would send her to her room. It seems to me that it is about that age that we learn that we don't always get our way, and how to take it like a man, and live with it. I respect you Joel, but I am also surprised at your pandering to this ridiculously childish behavior. The simple truth is that greenbean man needs to get over it. If he wants to pick up his marbles and run away and sulk, so be it. That won't hurt anyone but himself. And now you all have learned a little more about me. Most things just plain don't get under my skin, but adults acting like children will make Little Bit nuts. So boys play nice!

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), July 29, 2000.

This is just a suggestion, but could problems like this be avoided in the future by Steve adding a box in the section where you post a response, saying either "I give my permission to have my comments printed in Countryside Magazine" or "Please don't print my comments in Countryside Magazine without contacting me first". Something like that. The magazine is advertised as a forum style magazine "written by its readers: there are no guidelines or paid writers." Greenbeanman, I appreciate your input, and hope you choose to continue on this forum.

-- Patti (trigger@mcn.net), July 29, 2000.

Maybe it's just me , but I enjoy getting e-mails from the my 'family' on this forum . We live in the sticks , all my family is in another state , and I feel as all of you are my friends .I don't see a big problem with whatever I say here being printed in black and white ,I have nothing to hide and hope maybe something said will help someone else .I must admit I do privately e-mail sometimes .I have also tried to privately e-mail and had it sent back as a false address and that does make me feel a little funny about that person .Maybe I'm to trusting and want to see the good not bad in everyone . But I would rather live that way .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), July 29, 2000.

I like greenbeanman (or whatever identity such an assemblage of DNA choses to post under!) I respect his wishes. Period.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), July 29, 2000.

Being one of the "wierdos" who simply feel we should be given the CHOICE of being printed or not, I don't feel that that is a childish thing at all. I thought that was a basic of homesteading. Freedom of choice. I don't think it's at all friendly for people to call names and put others down because of a simple privacy preference. Over and over, I've heard "I don't have anything to hide". Well guess what, neither do I. That doesn't mean that I want to get drowned in e-mail from men (married and single), just because I mention to a woman that I am single. It happened to me and it's just not something I want to deal with. Thank God I didn't have young girls to worry about intercepting any of them.

-- No one (Not For_Real@yahoo.com), July 29, 2000.

I think greenbeanman has a right to decide how he will handle something that happens to him that he does not like. He exercised that right. Unfortunately we were the losers. As a writer, I can truly understand why he may feel the way he does. A writer's talent is theirs to share as they see fit. It is also how they make their livelihood. It is not something anyone else has a right to take without permission. That is why there are copyright laws. It is kind of like the doctor that is always being bugged at parties to give a diagnosis to some schmuck who corners him. Just because it is among friends, it doesn't mean we have a right to infringe on his talents/expertise. Steve, potentially benefits from what greenbeanman said because it made for a better magazine by printing what he said and could result in better sales. I'm not condemning Steve either because I don't think he really thought the whole thing through and how people do protect their writing rights. But it was taken without permission. I agree with having a slot to check yes or no about allowing publication of everything we say on this forum. If it is set to default with a yes it will not inconvenience the rest of us and people like greenbeanman can change it to no and everyone is happy. Whatcha say, Steve, I for one sure miss greenbeanman.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), July 29, 2000.

I understand everyone's points. I think it would be fair to say also: We either have the forum as it is or we have no forum at all. The software is Lusenets and I don't think they would change it for the Almighty himself. I think the only thing Steve is able to do is delete old or unwanted threads. I can also picture myself printing someone's words in my magazine thinking that I am doing a great justice to them--than--having this happen. I would try to learn from my mistake about quotes, apologize and not be able to do anything else because I am committed to my software(probably by contract). I have made serious mistakes in my lifetime, ones I could not correct by I'm sorry, so I feel for both parties in this unfortunate incident. I had only hoped there was some common ground we could stand on but as you can see, I'm no negotiator. I had to try. I too, will miss the moniker and proceed all the while hoping I learned something from it. I too have lost various opportunities in life because I will not compromise my beliefs, so I understand. At least we are all still Homesteaders !

-- Secretary of War (Joel681@webtv.net), July 29, 2000.

I guess if it was printed in any other magazine that would bother me , but we are in the countryside forum and it was printed in countryside magazine. I too like greenbeanman and do not want his or anyone elses feelings hurt .I'm sorry I just don't see it as a big deal , there are so many other things to get upset about war, world hunger , sick love ones . I think everything must be taken in stride .Compared to lots of other things that could of happened this is minor , not that his feelings don't count .Now that we all know things might be published in the magazine why not open a yahoo account or some other of that type .That way you don't have to answer or even open it if you don't want to .That seems like an easy solution and it won't take years off your life worrying about it .Here's hoping everyone gets over hard feeling and gets back to normal.~Patty

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), July 29, 2000.

Actually there is no hard feelings on my part. My disagreement with this whole thing has nothing to do with greenbeanman getting upset in the first place. Everyone gets upset from time to time. It's just the whole we aren't family anymore thing that gets to me. It's like a little child who doesn't get his way so rather than just saying how he feels, he stamps off and say well I'm not playing anymore. In my house we teach that is bad sportsmanship. The way you resolve your differences is you express how you feel and then you forgive and forget. You certainly don't run away. I understand he was upset. I even understand he may have something of a point, but this name changing thing, and false e-mail(like Steve couldn't go back and get his real one), just irritates me. I am sure he is a super guy. I am sure that he has reason he feels justified for. I haven't called anyone names. I said he was behaving childishly. There is a big difference. I wrote what I actually thought and feel no need to scrape and bow. I call em like I see em.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), July 29, 2000.

Little Bit, I think maybe you believe greenbeanman was acting childish because he/she didn't act the way you wanted them too. Its not your bag, let him decide, fake e-mail and all.

-- J.J. (Haha@pa.prg), July 29, 2000.

Well I think I more than said what I wanted to say. I don't want to make a federal case out of this. As far as I'm concerned I'm not going to waste everyone's time belaboring a point. Joel i truly appreciated your response back to me. Honestly I've had a rather bad day. I was standing in my garden today dressed for gardening, when my son said "look". I said "at what?". He kinda nodded toward the road, and there stood about eight people, watching me garden. I cannot begin to tell you all how surprising it was to look up, way out here in the country and find I had an audience. I was absolutely speechless as I realised these people were here to look at my home which is for sale. I wasn't even informed they were coming. These people were there to buy our home and we have no where to go. This is not a great situation. We can't afford to rent anything else in our are. Rent run about $1500/month here. We haven't found a job yet and to tell you the truth I absolutely hate being in limbo. Sorry to complain. As for this thread, I'm done.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), July 30, 2000.

I must have missed something while my ISP was down for 5 days because of a fire.... GBM is an email friend of mine, but Ican't comment on what has happened but it is all starting to look like BHM's forum in pica.

-- Henderson (redgate@echoweb.net), August 01, 2000.

I'll admit to coming late to this particular issue, but allow me to add a couple of pennies worth of comment as someone who makes his living as a writer. If I understand this thread correctly, Greenbeanman wrote something on this forum that was subsequently reprinted in Countryside without his permission. According to the attorney I consulted on this issue a few years ago, anything written on the internet is public record unless specifically protected by a copyright statement. (And even that is no guarantee -- how many times have we seen and used the phrase "for educational purposes only"?) That means that anything we write here can be used by anyone who reads it for whatever purpose they desire. If someone wanted to publish a homesteading manual for personal profit based on the posts here, there is little or nothing we can do to stop it.

I recall the furor that erupted on one of the y2k forums last year when a newcomer announced that she had been lurking and downloading threads for months and planned to use them in a book about the y2k phenomenon. Members screamed bloody murder, but there was nothing they could do to prevent her, if she wished, from quoting their posts extensively. The etiquette of such usage remains in flux, but it seems to me that common courtesy would call for a perfunctory request for permission or at least notification of usage. As an alternate, how about a warning at the top of the response page warning posters that they might see their words in more print than they anticipated?

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), August 01, 2000.

I of course am out of the loop again, there are some threads I tire very quickly of, so had no idea the beef. But one thing on permission to print? Permission to print from their web site to their magazine, geeze how much more public can you get, than posting your thoughts with emial address than on a public forum? To me the beef is you have to keep it real, you can be whoever you want online but when the family can read your BS in print in the magazine, perhaps a little to close to home for some of our most famous BS'ers! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), August 01, 2000.

I like Greenbeanman and don't understand what this is all about, Please come back and let by gones be by gones. Karole

-- karole (Biz3boymom@aol.com), August 03, 2000.