Thanks so much for all you have done! These are trying times but I believe "right" will prevail. If it does not, just know that because of you many people have been helped. We have received valuable information that we could not have acquired through the media. This is the place that provides information first. Perhaps we should all thank Mr. Greenspun and MIT also.

-- Nadine Zint (nadine@hillsboro.net), February 20, 2000

Doomer homage to their fascist heroes, and deniers of free speech and open discourse.

Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), June 27, 2000

Answers

Point of order, AR. There are enough of the guilty to tar so don't waste it on the By Standers who were swayed by the propaganda.

I would leave Ms. Zint and other like her (Eve comes to mind) out of this and concentrate on the real Evil Doers and the "wise guys" who think this is some sort of a joke you or I are playing (Carlos /Net Waste/etc.) While it is a good demonstration of how some were mislead, there were 1,000s more who bought into the EY/GARY/Hyatt Stupidities and didn't get the news "y2k was over".

Ms. Nadine is a judgement call who got the message a bit too late that Y2k was over. She was hardly one of the Fruit Loops who *rejected* reality.

She also can make a case for a position that is understandable vs. the hog wash of a "shakey" or a@a.a /sysman/rest who should have known better.

She stated that her motivations were driven by her childhood experiences and I suspect that there were some in her town who only needed to recall the Texas Depression Version 2.0 of the 1985-92 time frame to be "seriously concerned".

These were the people that the "MIS-LEADERS" plyed their wares to and then sent in the Brain Washed to "Re-inforce" the Sales.

There is a rather fine line between those who were genuinely sincere, concerned, "confused" and "trying to be helpful" 3rd and 4th level players and the **MIS-LEADERS** who are worthy of excoriation (a specialty of mine).

I would call Ms. Nadine "for real" and as such she is entitled (and not just becuase she is one of the 20 million Superior Humans residing in Texas.)

Ms. ZINT, has some rather firm convictions that she really believes as a "child of the Depression". As such, she falls into another classification of people who should be "exempted" from the general run of the mill Zombie. Unlike Diane the Deleter, Helen of Fear, the weird off TB I "Rose" (a wanderer of dozens of boards) and the Continue Dressing Hair, Ms. Nadine was not one of the "Misleaders" (at least to the best of my knowledge).

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), June 27, 2000.

Does "fascist heroes" include Greenspun and MIT? Fascism is deadly business and the word should not be thrown about as a general insult; especially by people with serious ego problems like cpr and his psycho sycophant Andy Ray.

-- (nemesis@awol.com), June 27, 2000.

>> Ms. Nadine is a judgement call ... <<

Listen to cpr, Andy Ray. Trust his judgement. He was right about Y2K. I was wrong about Y2K. He was right and I was wrong.

This should tell you all you need to know.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), June 27, 2000.

I WASN'T ALONE .........BRIAN TWIT-WIT:

DEC. 1998:

http://www.smu.edu/cgi-bin/Nova/get/gn/223/2/1/2.html

Date: Dec 16, 19:50 From: Balance-This

Want to Thank You for finally making me realize this whole Y2k thing is a waste of my time. To any who tried my webboard from another post, sorry, I decided this morning to delete the thing. I will continue with building the website concerning leading edge technologies, but the board is over. And so ends my Y2k involvement and webboard posting. Some know me under the handle, srb, some here under Balance-This.

Within 16 days we will see all the evidence anybody will ever need that Y2k is an overblown exercise. Couple of little things as my final parting shot. And these must be considered seriously if one believes Y2k will be widespread. These are not definitive, but point to a reality many here simply refuse to acknowledge. Webdocuments are NOT reality. Just because Bob Bennett maybe "worried" or even "not worried", is mere speculation, Reality is one's best guide.

You say you read the NERC report. Like most you probably missed the most important paragraph in the thing. Reality confirms the basis of this fact over and over. We have two published events which all but confirm this truth. I think it page 30 of the NERC report. The author mentions, almost like "everybody knows this", that because of the diversity of embedded systems(many different chip manufacturers), a common-mode-failure like Y2k, is virtually impossible. Y2k is dependent on the interconnectiveness of a great deal of computers, systems, and on and on. The reason Y2k will never become the meltdown predicted, is because of the Diversity inherent through-out. This does not deny many things are not as diverse as one would like, but this represents a very small percentage, i.e. why Y2k will never become widespread, or lead to a North version.

Now 2 events which may appear to break this law of diversity, but in doing so, also point to the fact Y2k is most likely overblown and the potential as well has been hyped to the point of being simply impossible. And even these point to the fact much of this technology, as much as we would like to think otherwise, is still controlled by humans.

Recently the NYSE "crashed". One of the member firms forgot to set an old O/S2 computer's clock-back(DST). Bogus dates built-up to a point where they were beginning to infect the NYSE as a whole. Not to mention the members system, it crashed, and the NYSE(parts of) also crashed. To protect the integrity of the trading system, the entire floor was shutdown. Key things here are, the problem was contained. Not a perfect situation, but an important tid-bit. Now the gem. If many involved in the NYSE, member brokers and the exchange themselves, are busy implementing Y2k upgrades, fixes and the like, how come we do not see any other glitches like a simple daylight- savings mistake? Logic would tell you we would be seeing an ever growing number of "fix-it" crashes, why not? If you cannot answer this, you have a big problem, idiot or moron aside. Clearly there must be many. I would submit the main reasons they never become major problems is because of the diversity of systems and built-in redundancy. Even the NYSE has a back-up system. In this case it was a "human" who decided the data was contaiminated and decided to shut the thing down. And it should also be clear, the amount of stuff at risk to Y2k is a mere fraction of systems. Even "testing" of existing systems(forced rollovers) should be producing "publishable" screw- ups, why not? Why not every-place? or anyplace of merit? Even North doomers will conceed some are doing SOME work, will you not? So where is the unexpected problems? Ya they happen, but why do they almost never produce anything close to a full-scale meltdown? "Forced- Rollover", as in setting computers to 2000. Or like the TVA who are running power-plants in 2000 now, or Washington Power who has done similar. Where are the "life-threatening" crashes, and snow-balling, cascading failures? I thought it was "systemic" and "too late" because everything is connected and the Y2k problem was so prevasive it is simply too big a job to fix it all? Reality is saying those 2 statements have major flaws.

The ATT link is critical for many reasons. The biggest one involves the fact LOC, lines of code revised, have been reintroduced back into systems and apps as it has been fixed, looked-at, redone, left-alone, windowed, whatever. ATT claims there has not been a SINGLE snag as a result. I will conceed this is most likely smoke and spin. But surely we would have heard of a problem, don't you think? so ATT is pretty accurate in their statement. Maybe exaggerated, but REALITY confirms it by a lack of a news-story(s). Are their computer geeks that fast at averting cascading problems? or just maybe, the systems are not as "at-risk" as believed? maybe diversity and the very real fact the interconnected nature of computers and networks has been overblown?

As a second example, we have the recent black-out in the Bay Area. We have learned, like most screw-ups, it was "human-error". Take the info about NYSE/ATT and the fixing, messing, reintroducing, forced- rollovers, and ask yourself how come we have not seen black-outs anyplace? Oh sure some, but anything to worry oneself over? seriously? Is NOBODY doing anything? even screwing-up? Do you seriously believe that? Then where, for lack of a better term, where is the BEEF?. And do you seriously believe we have to wait till 2000 for confirmation? Do they? or should I say, is it even possible to "test" anything without creating a 2000 environment? You expect me to "buy" that nobody is doing this? I guess you would have-to, cause virtually nothing BAD is happening as a result of all the messing around going on, is it? seriously? Ya alot is in testbeds and parallel systems, but is it all, see ATT. When a chip-maker like Motorola says their chips are nay or say, is this based on stand- alone testing? does it matter? do they just say "we think the thingees work"?

The Bay Area black-out, while a huge mess, also points to many other truths. Where is Silicon Valley? Where are most Major websites hosted? With that answered, why isn't there a mass exodus from that area. Where on this planet is there a higher concentration of folks who should have some clue to Y2k? Are they worried? beyond having some extra cash on hand come 2000? If these folks don't know, who in the hell does?

I will repeat, webdocuments, studies, opinions, articles, speculation is NOT reality, could be, but is NOT. For one to buy anything close to a North version, STUFF would already be happening, and happening in a predictable, ever-increasing trend, IS IT? NO, so what does that tell you? and it is NOT because everybody is behind or looking the other way. Forward-looking calculations would be causing problems alone, where are they? How many more real-life TESTS will it take before one conceeds one has been seriously mislead? by a fella who's life dream is to see the end of America?

While I share many views with CPR, we differ on the potential impact of Y2k. I say the problem for most of us, will be minor if not even recognized. For some, it will mean the end-of-their-business. Some may die if a machine freaks. Some other countries maybe hard hit. But for the average person in the Western World, Y2k will be nothing. What we are in total agreement on, is the FACT Gary North is nothing more than a scam-artist and Treasonist. If it makes you feel better, I am an idiot and moron. 16 days should provide the best TEST ever. I am predicting the trend will continue and nothing of merit will happen. Sorry, the degenerate world will continue on. We can only really change one thing, if even that, ourselves. So good-luck all!

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), June 27, 2000.

BLAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH, BLAAAAAH BLAAH BLAAH BLAAAAAH BLAH,

-- (BEATING@DEAD.HORSE), June 27, 2000.

>> I WASN'T ALONE .... <<

Of course, you're right again, cpr. You are right to credit those who, like Andy Ray, saw you were right, after you showed them the way. And it's big of you, too.

>> .....BRIAN TWIT-WIT: <

God knows, I deserved that. What can I say, but you're right again, cpr. My fault. Clearly, I left people with the mistaken impression that you were all alone in your rightness. I don't know why I keep fouling up, but thank goodness you are there to lend a helping hand when I need it most.

God bless you, cpr. You've got a heart as big as all outdoors.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), June 27, 2000.

Brian,

Didn't your mother ever warn you about sitting with tongue in cheek too long? Something about developing hairy palms, I believe.

Pure ROFLMAO. Yours, not mine.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), June 27, 2000.