I see a lot of civility here, and occassional flames as well. What I see a WHOLE lot of is fake email addresses - cheap shots, serious posts, either way, lots of fake email addresses.

So, a question here to all:

Have you posted here using multiple fake email addresses?

I will start. I don't THINK I have done this, but I may have done so flippantly without remembering. What I HAVE done is post under another name with a valid email address, but only once.

Now, a comment. Why not use a real email address? You can get an email address and still maintain your anonymity at numerous places, including Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.

Using a valid email address will at least allow private correspondence, and may improve the civility here.

I also throw this suggestion out to all members and OTFR for consideration, amusement, and flaming:

Probably the best rule for an Internet forum is a rule that all posts without valid email addresses will be deleted. Enforced rigorously and fairly, this should help the civilty of the discussions and cut down on the "hit and run" cheap shot posts, while still allowing free speech to those who have the nads/ovaries to use a real email address....

'Tink about it....

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), June 20, 2000

Answers

I don't know, FactFinder.

I obviously use a handle -- a very "Polly" one. The reason I do so is as follows. I don't think I've ever said anything particularly inflamatory around here. Most of the people I've communicate with over the Net in general, and in this forum in specific, are interesting and honest. But let's face it -- a lot of very weird people hang out here, including tax nuts, chemtrail people, and good old fashioned cranks and weirdos. Look at Andy Ray's current crusade against OTFR! I am sorry, but I don't want to get involved in such shit.

That kind of controversy is, perhaps, both the advantage and the disadvantage of the Net. But, it's a new frontier out here, and one likes to be careful.

I am perhaps not as net savy as you are, but I would be uncomfortable giving a "real" email address out here in this forum. I mean, do I really want Al-d to be able to email me whenever he wants (even at a Hotmail address)?

Now, on the other hand, I do not believe that "impersonation" of another poster is at all legitimate. That's dishonest, and can injure the reputation of the real poster. Under that circumstance, and that circumstance only, I can see giving out the offender's IPS address.

-- E.H. Porter (Just Wondering@About.it), June 20, 2000.

And, in answer to your question, I have never posted to this forum under any name but this one.

-- E.H. Porter (Just Wondering@About.it), June 20, 2000.

Please allow me to clarify where "Ima comin' from" on the email address issue. Those using multiple fake email addresses, make it hard to follow who is saying what, hard to know the "poster". Those of us using real email addresses on the other hand, can be followed from post to post, so at least you know more about us and our opinions than just from one post.

Fake email posters aren't always just taking cheap shots, some make pretty darned good points sometimes. But, its not real fair or honorable to take Charlie or someone else to task, when Charlie uses his real email address, and you do not! Just what name WERE you using back during the days when you claimed y2k was going to be a big deal, anyway? lol. So, basically you are "hiding" and shooting Charlie in the back in a cowardly manner, aren't you "I'm here, I'm there..." or is it "Archiver" or is it...see what I mean? It's hard to follow anonymous posters...

It's also hypocritical to post with a fake email address at the same time you "out" someone else you think is using a fake email address... (even when you are right - which some of you were).

I'm pretty sure I've seen posts here with the flavor of past TB2000 members, but with brand new fake emails.

Linkmeister? Is that you? Chuck? Diane? And hey, is that Lane Core Jr's sarcasm I see there? lol.

Come on "out" guys and girls, take a lesson from Sysman who isn't afraid to take the heat.

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), June 20, 2000.

E.H., I understand your concerns, although I myself believe that a hotmail or yahoo address is pretty safe. I must say, if all posters were as considerate as you are and kept the same "fake" handle all the time, I would never have even started this thread. As a matter of fact, I have seen a number of your posts and can recognize "you."

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), June 20, 2000.

I was wondering the same kinds of things, David. I've never posted under any other name. In the retrospective chapters we've been writing, with only one or two exceptions, ALL of those who disagreed strongly with our writings are posting with fake e-mail addresses.

The obvious reason is perhaps that they are trying to avoid being hassled if we knew who they were. But the question remains: Why do you post using a fake e-mail address?

-- Dan the Power Man (dgman19938@aol.com), June 20, 2000.

The only "personal" info that Yahoo asks, at least when I openen this account, was for a ZIP code. No real name (I'm Ytwok Board), address, phone number, etc.

I also use Yahoo for my primary, real, e-mail. They do have some restrictions, like the 3 meg limit on your inbox for free accounts, and 1/2 meg per attachment, so I also use another account on a "real" Exchange server at work, once in a great while. But Yahoo does the job just fine, most of the time. Since I only give my real, or "real real" address to those that need to know, I'm not worried about what someone can do with my y2kboard account. I can walk away anytime.

I have made a few posts as kirk@enterprise, and a few other smart-ass addresses, for a wise-crack one-liner answer once in a while, but I don't think more than a dozen times since I've been involved with TB2000.

I agree FF, I don't see the big deal. There are places that post your IP address (didn't debunky do this?), so everyone, at least those that cared, would know at once that Kirk was Sysman. In some ways, that is kinda nice...

<:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), June 20, 2000.

I'm on record as disliking very, very much the practice of anonymous posting by those who do not provide e-mail addresses. There are extenuating circumstances, but by & large this is a cowardly practice. That's a harsh statement, I know.

I don't post with my name as my handle. That's because I've used Bingo1 for 5 years & it is known by a certain few who wouldn't recognize my real name. I've always provided an e-mail addy & do respond to civil inquiries. Some things are best communicated privately.

Anons limit the discussion, IMO, because I try very hard not to embarrass anyone. There are times where clarification of a point is required & I won't ask for the poster to do so publicly if this entails personal information.

FS is one individual who remains anon to my continued dismay. He has a reason which is legit in my mind. Still, I refrain from addressing many points to him because of my reluctance to address issues I perceive as private. My loss.

As to the anon attack-cowards, these I chuckle at & ignore. Wasters of time, energy & bandwidth. Do I desire this be a real addy only forum? No, no, no. I expect people to act with dignity & integrity. Flailing at windmills for sure. I don't wish to limit discussion just because some are less than genuine. We all have our faults. Just look into the mirror, deeply.

Thanks for starting this thread David.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), June 20, 2000.

OK, so Im using a real e-mail address. Does this make me more of a man than if I was using a fake e-mail address? Am I now partiking from more of the human experience than if I were using a fake e-mail address? Are we who use real e-mail addresses supposed to feel superior and thumb our noses at those poor slobs who aren't "at our level"? If we censor those who do not choose to use real e-mail address are we still uncensored? At times I have had over 20 real e- mail addresses, would it be acceptable if I posted under twenty different names but in a pendantic ritual apply a real e-mail address to each of the different handles?

Could we possibly enforce jail time on these fake e-mail address users? How about sending them to mandatory counseling? Perhaps the most humane "treatment" would be to sterelize them. I'm sure glad I've evolved to your level and now I feel positevly superior to these low life scum.

And while we are speaking on the topic of lower life forms Fact Finder, did you realize that the word you meant to use at the end of your post was think, not tink. Think is what us superior people do with our minds, tink(le) is what you inferior people do on the toilet seat.

-- I'm only playing with you, Fact Finder. (beza@wa.freei.net), June 20, 2000.

Sysman, YOU were Kirk? I *knew* it dammit...and in that one thread where I said "beam me up", you just left me there with the doomer droids! Kidding...I do remember that name though!

Bingo, I appreciate your comments

-- Fact...er, David (FactFinder@bzn.com), June 20, 2000.

Sorry David, I must have missed your answer. The old forum was a busy place, and it wasn't easy to keep up! Plus, in those few threads where I was Kirk; they ususlly weren't worth revisiting...

You know me, I would never leave a fellow Y2Ker stranded!!!

<:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), June 20, 2000.

Fact Finder, David, whatever..

Are you having a personal crisis or am I missing something here? If you are so hell bent for everyone to use real names and email addys why are you still hiding out? FWIW, youve got to be a little unbalanced to put your credentials out here on the net. Besides, do you want your real self to be labeled an asshole or would you rather be an asshole incognito?

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 20, 2000.

Ra,

You're missing the point. I've known FactFinder, for well over a year now. I knew him on EUY2K, the orig TB2000, Debunky, here, EZ (even though I don't think he posts there, but Dan has included his comments)... He also knows me as Sysman, at all of these places, and probably others that I don't remember.

I also know him as David, and he knows me as Bruce. The point is that we know who we are (got that?). I don't care if his e-m addy is "real" or not, I know who he is, and I base my level of "respect" for what he has written, on knowing his history, etc.

A "fake" e-mail address is a pain for everyone. It may not be fake, but belong to someone else. It causes "bounced" messages in other people's mail. It's just not a cool thing to do. But this isn't really important. Knowing "who" someone is, is the real point, IMHO.

<:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), June 21, 2000.

What the hell you talkin bout boy! You got a problem with fake addresses you come and see Mistah T, I'll set you straight boy!

You ain't no damn fact finder! You a fool! That's a fact! I pity da fool that listens to you! Fool!!

-- Mister T (you@pitiful.fool), June 21, 2000.

My two-bits:

I have little problem with those who constantly change handles for every post, or who consistantly give bogus email addresses. My attitude is, who cares?

When a handle is an obvious one-off, I discount the intentions and sincerity of the poster in proportion. It's like a stranger drifting through town. They leave little or no impression, unless it is criminal. Beyond that, words tend to speak for themselves. A malicious post by a super-anonymous poster is water off a duck's back to me.

Fake email addresses attached to a known quantity handle is no concern of mine, either. I have no wish or need to email people who appear on this forum. I keep the discourse public. Any reply I make is here, in the open.

I choose to use a real name and a real email because I like to retain full, open and complete responsibiloity for what I write. It is my personal style. Until it causes me some problem I am not responsible for, I won't change it.

I tend to respect those who use real names or addresses more quickly and completely than those who use handles, but, a handle used consistantly and recognizably will earn my respect over time, too.

Nuff said.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), June 21, 2000.

Why get upset if someone wants to use a fake email address? For that matter, do we get more upset if someone uses a fake, fake address (one other than their normal fake address)? Isn't half the fun trying to figure out who's who, anyway? Lighten up, folks. As long as the fake name and address isn't someone else's real one, what's the problem?

-- Anon435627 (Anon@all-anon.con), June 21, 2000.

I don't think I've posted under any "handle" but this one on this forum, and always sign my name, "Frank", in any event on every forum so people will know it's me.

I don't want to use a *real* e-mail though, as my job is in some ways sensitive, and I don't need some nutcase giving me problems. If I were more net-savvy I might trust Yahoo, Hotmail, etc. more, but I'm not. I'm also aware that one's IP address is known, but to me that at least is one more step away from who you are than a real e-mail address.

Oh yeah, on TB2K it was "@twocents.com", I changed it to ".cam" when Diane said it caused a headache for the server.

FF, wouldn't anonymizer.com (sic) be a real e-mail address? Or would your policy also require censoring certain addresses from posting?

For me it would be a bummer,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 21, 2000.

I'll add my three cents to Brian's two cents. I've always used my real name and address because It too think it's important to be responsible for what I write. I've had a few obnoxious replies from people to my Yahoo address but it's easy to block them. I've also had some interesting discussions by e-mail that wouldn't have been possible except for have a real e-mail address.

What I really dislike is people who use a fake address and then leave the "send an e-mail response" checked when they post a new message. Every time I respond I get a bounced message error. If you're using a fake address, please check the no e-mail option before you hit the submit button.

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), June 21, 2000.

FF, since you asked, I'll see Mr. Cooke's three cents and raise you one. Obviously, this is a fake name and address (yes, with the "send e-mail response" box unchecked). Yes, I have used "one-offs" occasionally (but never impersonating anyone else). I've responded to people via e-mail (with my real address), when I thought it best to take it outside the board. But unless it's made a requirement and enforced across-the-board, I have no intention of posting my real name or e-mail address here.

Do you remember when cpr was boasting that he was "keeping a list" (and checking it twice?) of "doomers" for later use? I don't need that kind of traffic in my inbox.

I'm content to let whatever words appear speak for themselves. By and large, it's all you're ever going to have to go by. Hint: read the "from" line last. You may find you agree with someone you've thought was a total butthead.

Besides, if people really knew that I was a Tom Cruise lookalike investment banker making fifty zillion dollars a year, I'd be spending all my time fending off marriage proposals, and I just don't have time for that.

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), June 21, 2000.

Hey Bruce, I think YOU are missing the point. I dont give a rats ass that you and David know each other. Who gives a shit? This forum is not the neighborhood sandbox, its an international melting pot of ideas and viewpoints visited, for the most part, by folks who wisely elect to remain anonymous. If you and David want to post your vitals for the world to see, go to it. Just don'texpect the rest of us to be so stupid as to follow suit. Get it? BTW, based on your personal track record Bruce, you are the last person to take any advice from.

Tick, Tock Bubba!

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 21, 2000.

Do you want us all to be like Tracy (Dancr) who has posted practically her whole life on her web site and calls attention to it with every post? Not me, thanks. I'll keep my anonymity intact.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), June 21, 2000.

Oh, by the way, the email address is real. I just don't check it often.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), June 21, 2000.

When I first began using the internet [1994-5?] I was interested in learning more about P.C.'s. I'd been a mainframe programmer, and had just obtained my first P.C. for home use that would allow an internet hook-up. Of course I'd had the Radio-Shack stuff onto which I could program multiplication tables, spelling words, etc. for the kids, hooking it up to an old TV with a cassette player to save information.

My ISP advertised chats for women, so I chose Oldnovice as a handle to depict that I had computer experience, but little P.C. experience and attended their weekly chats. Since I'd gotten the P.C. for telecommuting purposes, I also engaged in some telecommuting fora, again using Oldnovice as my handle. In the "women" chats, we were warned about giving out too much personal information on the net. We were told to leave our "profiles" blank. OTOH, the administrators knew my real E-mail address, name, etc., and would refer to me as Anita.

Moving along from those to technology fora, I always used my full name in fora, for many of the same reasons some others still do. I wanted to be responsible for what I'd written. I started out at TB2000 and csy2k doing the same thing. Two things happened that changed that. 1) Cory Hamasaki used my full name somewhere without my permission. It wasn't in a weather report [like he used Ted Hoffman], but I didn't want to be associated with him. 2) My E-mail box started to overflow with spam each day...not from posters on the fora, but from the folks who search the fora looking for E-mail names/addresses. I then changed to simply Anita notgiving@anymore.com, changing to notgiving@anymore.thingee when Diane truthfully mentioned that anything ending in a .com COULD be a real location.

I'd never looked into the Yahoo or Hotmail addresses, but one day decided to check. In just a few minutes I was able to set up a Hotmail address. For the first few weeks of use, all I received were the DAEMON messages indicating that my post was undeliverable to those who had started a thread with a phony E-mail address. At that time, I wished I was still using notgiving@anymore.thingee so those messages could just go nowhere. Then, one day I got a nice mail from someone. I've had several since. Since I check that account less often, I may/may not now give those folks the E-mail address that I check more often. Of course now I also get spam at that address, as the folks who check fora renew their efforts. It's quite easy to block those folks on Hotmail...much easier than the filter on my own ISP.

I'd agree with Bingo. We needn't be TOO public, yet it's nice to be able to discuss things in private as well....IF we're interested. If we're not interested in having a copy of every thought of another placed in our E-mail, we can ask to be removed from a list, or even block folks if our request is not honored.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), June 21, 2000.

Wow., I am kind of shocked to see this at all. It appears that FF wants us to be 'censored' should we choose not to give our real email addy's. I emailed a certain someone, which in turn, gave that someone my REAL addy.

It was a complete unadulterated nightmare. Anita, i do sort of agree with you. If I wish to email you in private, I shall do so, and anyone for that matter. Now once I do that, and I have the receiver then has my real addy.

Right Capn? :-) I dont wish to be censored because I had a bad experience. I've always posted under consumer shh@aol.com every since the old TB board.

I 'outted' myself in Bok's the other nite, gave up my real name :-)

I agree FF that we know / learn each other, but I dont feel we should be pushed into giving our email addresses. My gosh this is a PUBLIC forum. If it was password protected, then that is different?

One thing is for sure, I dont know alot about ISP's and stuff like that, but I did learn the VERY hard way about emailing someone.

FWIW, I dont want a free hotmail account, screw that, just more junk mail, and like another said, I dont want some looney emailing me with BS.

I dont mean to sound harsh, but FF, you IMHO, came off as hard core on this issue. Forgive me if I'm wrong, it just appears that way to me.

As for myself, I'll stay the way I am, thanks anyway.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), June 21, 2000.

I'll add my dime. When I first started to post to DeJagger's forum (way back when) I used my real name and my work email address and my real name. I didn't get any bad posts but I did get some that took a lot of time to reply to. And I did get some from people trying to tell me they KNEW that Y2K was being covered up or they KNEW that they had a perpetual motion machine that worked.

When I found this site I thought the people were even more nuts and with posters like Paul Milne or A&L I think I was right. So I started to use The Engineer alias. Because I didn't want to deal with a lot of spam I used the addreess tech.com. Turned out that was a real email address (not The Engineer part) and was probably causing at least minor problems.

Like Anita I went and got a real email address. I'm not worried about bad posts or even spam since there is always the delete button.

I do think that it is easy to use a real but secure emaill address. And if you are worried about spam or hate mail, just don't check it or hit the delete without opening anything.

FWIW I have had almost no email posts to that address.

-- The Engineer (spcengineer@yahoo.com), June 21, 2000.

Before rollover, I did not use a real addy. Posted as Normally@ease.notnow. There was too much going on, fear and concern among government entities, patriot groups, y2k preppers etc and too much interest being shown in other places online as to who knew what about what. As a y2k newsletter editor with sources, I just did not want a high profile back then.

After Jan 1 I changed to Normally (Oxsys@aol.com). Things are not as sensitive anymore. Rarely, rarely do I resort to disguise.

I like real addy's, but don't mind fake ones when they are cute and sharp and accompany oneliners that make me ROTFL Sometimes I regret fake ones, when there is a desire to pursue a point outside the forum. Have not discovered any Tom Cruise zillionaires.

Learned recently in email that Normally is an awkward name. (Not particularly accurate either lol.)

-- Oxy (Oxsys@aol.com), June 21, 2000.

Dats right Sumer! ; )

When I 1st entered the y2k fora I used my real addy and was immediately deluged with a bunch of wierd/porno shit,then I went to lurker status for the longest time next was me@libertytree where I found myself embroiled in a rash of shit with the guy who owned that defunct .com,it was then I set up the excite account using a name that many besides here recognize me by,it has worked very well.

I do think a real addy is nice,but mandatory? That is a bit strong.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 21, 2000.

LOL, Capn. BTW, there was a link at one time to check to see if the fake addy used is IN USE by another, I checked, mine was not, therefore, I kept this one.

If someone could provide the link again, it would be nice. I would add it to my fav's and check from time to time to make SURE I am not invading someone's turf.

I do private emails now ONLY with those I trust. I have set up two AOL accounts w 2 screen names after my last nitemare. Perhaps one day I shall reveal them.

PSS, anyone who uses the Pic thread, can find out true email addy's anyhow, at least that is/was how mine was set-up cuz I couldnt figure any other way w/out my true addy coming up.

FWIW, if you saw my real addy, you'd laugh anyhow right, capn? :-)

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), June 21, 2000.

Sumer,

Was that one....HottubzRus?.....or was it Jetstremz.Ahhhhhhh : )

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 21, 2000.

BTDT -- too many nutcases out there. Been on the net since '95. Paid my dues with leeches that you can't get rid of, AND I have met some very cool ppl -- been friends with many for years -- met online.

I appreciate the one liner @ emails. So what if someone wants to remain anony? We're all just cyber-names anyway, unless we choose to take it further.

Alot of ppl don't like my name. Think I'm out to get all doomers. Actually, on the first "welcome" thread here, I was called "xdoomer- now" along with the USA addy.

I chose that name, because I have been in and around the survivalist "movement" since the late 70's. My husband and I have always kept a balance, but we have met some strange characters with some dangerous views in our travels. Fringe is not our cup of tea. We like to camp, target shoot, etc. Most of our long term friends have evolved like us. From end of the whirrlders to "Hey we really just like the outdoors and caring for our families. We learned how to have a life.

We have strong views politically - morally - many injustices in this world and many victims. We have always been the "underdogs" advocate of sorts.

At times, no doubt things have looked very bad world wide and things could have gone either way. Y2k? Fear is not a good motivator. It cripples you into making wrong choices. It makes you vulnerable to control freaks that will dictate what you should do. To encourage anyone to live in FUD is a criminal offense. Thus the "doomerstomper". Seen more than one shattered life because of the fearmongering.

My identity or lack thereof is my choice. I have personal knowledge of ppl in the many Y2k forumns, survivalist boards that should be locked away without a key. There are very real THREATS out there on the net. Very real delusionally insane ppl, that can sound normal when they choose to. Usually for their gain.

I can appreciate your opinion FF, but as this thread has evolved into so many ppl stating their reasons -- some things are best left unknown.

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), June 21, 2000.

Hey Ra, I'm still anonymous. So is David, and so are you. But if you signed your post as "xyz" I'ld probably just ignore your remark. But since I've seen you around, I'll take a minute to answer.

I use a "real" e-m as a courtesy to others. Sure, you know my first name. You may know that I live in NJ. If you've been paying attention, you know that I work in Princeton and live in Hopewell. You may have my IP address from another forum. So what? You wouldn't know me if I bumped into you walking down the street.

And as for my "personal track record" Ra, don't you worry about it. Yea, I was wrong about Y2K. Again, so what? I've been wrong before. I was wrong when I hired my last junior administrator, that turned out to be a twit. I was wrong when I deceided to drop my study of C+, before Windows came out! I'm sure I'll be wrong again. Who cares. I still get paid for my hobby, and I'm actually quite good at it. I'm happy with my life.

How about you, Ra? Got many friends in real life?

Tick... Tock... right back at ya, BUBBA! (God, I hate that term. Reminds me of Clinton...)

<:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), June 21, 2000.

Although I've always used my real name and address, I've never received any abusive email at all. Nor was I ever the most popular poster. Most of the mail I got disagreed with a position I took, but did so politely and thoughtfully. This often led to mutually rewarding conversations.

As "I'm here, I'm there" writes, "I've responded to people via e-mail (with my real address), when I thought it best to take it outside the board." He doesn't seem to realize that I and surely others would have liked to do the same with him, but HE doesn't permit it. A bit one sided there.

I don't have any problem with people who wish to remain anonymous for what they consider good reasons. It doesn't take long to tell them apart from those who are simply ashamed of what they post.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 21, 2000.

I have participated on various forums and always go the anon route. Ive not reached the point in my life where my new friends and acquaintances are cultivated on the Internet. It is hard enough to make wise people decisions in the flesh let alone out here in nowhere land. I try not to say anything that I would not say in person.

-- The (fact@fan.attic), June 21, 2000.

It appears to me that there are excellant arguements both pro and con.

I like real email addys so if you want to pursue a tangent to a thread you can do so without side-tracking the thread. Also, you can pursue a conversation with someone you find interesting in a more private fashion.

From the experiences that have been related here, I can appreciate the desire of some to remain anonymous.

I try to be civil and use a real email addy except when I fat finger it trying to get a word in. I do owe Hawk an apology for an insult a while back when I lost my cool. There was a misunderstanding about a post and some responses prior to the insult and I became too agitated to clarify my position. This was a situation where I feel that a private exchange might have been beneficial.

It seems to me that everyone has good reasons to participate in the forum in the fashion that makes them comfortable and at ease to express themselves freely.

Overall, I think that as an uncensored forum, the debate and discussion is enhanced by allowing those with reservations to use fake emails. Some of those perspectives and opinions may prove to be very important to the discussion.

JCC

-- Greybeard7 (Wolverine_in_nc@hotmail.com), June 21, 2000.

Yep:

Z1X4Y7@aol.com is a real address. But it has many blocks. Not because of any problem that I've had here or on TB1. It was blocked because of problems I had on a previous photographic techniques boards. Just too many porn site addresses and get rich schemes being sent to me. Even with the blocks, some folks on this board have gotten through [I don't even remember how the blocks were configured; but they stopped the spam]. I've used this address for so many years that I don't want to change to something else. I've started to think of myself as Z.

Best wishes,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 21, 2000.

Very interesting responses, I do appreciate them, lots of pros and cons expressed.

This is an issue that I don't have a "hard" opinion of, for this forum at least.

I respect those who choose to use fake email addresses out of genuine concern, though I do wish you would use the same one as many do. On the other hand, I find "anonymous" fake email posts that make personal attacks against certain individuals (such as those about Steve Heller and cpr above)childish and cowardly, and have no respect such postsM=.

Bingo, I have been influenced by the replies in this thread to concede that posting consitantly with one name is ok by me, since it at least provides an "identity" that can be followed. Your advice to chuckle and ignore anon attack posters is good advice.

beza, your post was funny, I enjoyed the humor. The " 'Tink about it" was not accidental, I meant to do that. Hey, is that a real email address???;)

Sysman, was kidding about the "beam me up" thing, but I appreciate the comments from you and Dan, immensely, since my opinion might be alone here but for you guys and a few others, lol.

Ra, gee, you are taking this way more seriously than I for some reason. Could it be your....fake email address? In that case, I must now ignore you, ;) Hey, I NEVER advocated using real names, just valid email addresses. After your comments to Sysman and to me, I would like to send you a private email saying "kiss my hairy asp you twit moron poet wannabe" since I am FAR to polite to post such a thing, so I certainly shall not,lol.

Mistah T, boys don't leave three tracks in the snow. And anybody ever tell you that those chains look tacky???

I tend to respect those who use real names or addresses more quickly and completely than those who use handles, but, a handle used consistantly and recognizably will earn my respect over time, too. I have come to agree with this very reasonable view, thanks Brian.

Anon435627, OK, I will lighten up.

Frank, See above comments to Brian. You are one of those I have in mind that I "recognize" and have come to respect as a person, regardless of not having a real email address.

JJCooke, Good comment.

I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), YOU were one of posters I had in mind when I posted this thread of course. Your writings are familiar, I am sure I have seen the style and wit another name, or perhaps many other names. Interesting thing is some of your comments are really worth reading, but you sure make it hard to "know" who is posting what with the name changing....too bad.

Buddy, good point, I would rather we all be anonymous than spill our life here like a few posters. But isn't there a happy medium?

Anita, I got your email, so I hope that I remember to drop you off "the list" the next time I copy it out for an email! That dang list kept growing ;)

Consumer, I understand your views, thanks. And you are ok as far as I am concerned. And that was funny about you couldn't stop your real email from coming up...:)

The Engineer, I first posted using my full name at EUY2K, but changed to FF after seeing some of the blasting going on...sounds similar to your experience. Also used a valid email address though.

Oxy, I too think some of the fake email addresses are funny. Its the ones that go "undercover" just to attack someones REAL name that I find cowardly.

capnfun, Happened to a couple of times too - seems that a few TB2000 forum members who really don't like you sign your email address up to crap sites. Now that is REALLY cowardly - how do such weasels respect themselves at all???

doomerstomper,Greybeard, and all! Some reasoned expression there, good enough for me.

This forum is wide open for the most part, depth, shallowness, wind, farts - so few rules seems fine.

If I were to ever start a serious forum though, rest assured that valid email addresses (but not real names) would be required, otherwise you have, this, a sometimes serious but often silly forum ;)

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), June 21, 2000.

Yes David it is a real e-mail address although I only check it occassionally. Although I will still post under different names, I will use this e-mail address with all of my posts.

-- In a better mood tonight (beza@wa.freei.net), June 21, 2000.

"Probably the best rule for an Internet forum is a rule that all posts without valid email addresses will be deleted. Enforced rigorously and fairly, this should help the civilty of the discussions and cut down on the "hit and run" cheap shot posts, while still allowing free speech to those who have the nads/ovaries to use a real email address...."

FactFinder, I am too lazy to read this entire thread, so hopefully my response will be original. In my opinion, it is a serious waste of time and effort to verify an email address' validity. What will stop posters from using someone else's valid email account? For example, I could post using mike@hotmail.com -- this certainly couldn't be counted as invalid, yet I am pretty sure it doesn't belong to me.

-- aqua (aqu@fin.a), June 22, 2000.

I too think some of the fake email addresses are funny. Its the ones that go "undercover" just to attack someones REAL name that I find cowardly.

Does that include cpr AKA Mystery Guest AKA Reality Checker, and Doc Paulie AKA 456?

-- (Just@Wondering.hmm), June 22, 2000.

Don't forget Doc Paulie AKA cHeston!

-- (Who@m I.today?), June 22, 2000.

From: Preparations, ` la Carte (pic), near Monterey, California

I'm fully aware that my views are "out there" in many dimensions and so I provide the link to my personal space for the convenience of those who ask themselves "Who in the world could think such a weird thing?" Hopefully, this might lead to understanding and tolerance for my views, especially on the part of anybody who thinks people should be stoned for what I think.

Posting via a fake e-mail address is not evidence that I am ashamed of what I write. I haven't been ashamed to let my friends or my family members visit my webspace. I'm just not eager to allow any poorly socialized people, such as some on this forum who snipe at others without provocation, to pay a personal visit to me and my friends and family.

I can appreciate not wanting to hear all the details of some stranger's life, particularly when it's irrelevant to the supposed topic of a thread. That's why I try to confine all such information to my own space, and not let it spill out I document my essays in my own webspace not so much with the thought that anybody would ever go there and attempt to read it all, but as a protection against people who would misrepresent my position, whether intentionally or not. I have been happy, on a couple of occasions, to have this information conveniently gathered in one place when I've needed it to defend myself. As far as I can remember, that hasn't been necessary on this forum, but it has been on a couple others.

By keeping track of what I say, I can also hopefully avoid repeating myself and thus boring people. I can just provide a link to the earlier comments on the same topic, so that anybody who's already seen them need not plow through them a second time. Anybody else who may be disinterested (for whatever reason) can skip them, too.

Parodies, while perhaps offensive, fall within the bounds of free speech, so long as it is clear that the speaker is not in fact the person being critiqued. Even if what the speaker states about someone is 100% incorrect, people can consider the source, and compare to what they know about the one who is being lampooned. Anonymous attacks would generally get less respect than would pseudononymous ones (to coin a word).

Attacking someone on a thread on which they're not yet participating, such as Buddy (whoever that is) has done on this thread, is a low blow, since the victim obviously cannot correct the record (or explain) if they're unaware of what has been said. Uninvolved bystanders may tend to view the insult as inconsequential and not worth the trouble to stand up for someone or tracking them down to inform them. When I have commented negatively about someone who is not already involved on a thread, I have done them the courtesy of writing privately to alert them. (That practice tends to cut down on how often I'm willing to make such comments.)

For what it's worth, early on I started automatically putting a tagline at the beginning of all my posts on Greenspun forums because I was annoyed about having to scroll to the end of long posts and back up again if I wanted to know whose writing I was reading. Also, sometimes it's helpful for knowing what posts to just skip! I hoped Philip Greenspun would get a clue and modify the software so that names would appear at the top (as is common in other fora). Better yet, I fantasized that other participants would catch on and sign the tops of their posts instead of the bottoms, too. Mostly, though, once I'd set up the HTML, I just didn't give it much thought.

As long as I was taking a line for that purpose, it seemed to me to make sense to provide a link to my webspace, since links don't encroach any additional amount on screen real estate. I thought of what I was doing as going the extra mile to "be considerate of others' time." No good turn goes unpunished. Buddy's not the first "person" to comment negatively about it, or even the second or third (unless they're all the same person). I choose to not give that opinion much weight because I know that when somebody doesn't like us, nothing we can do is right. Maybe they're just jealous! hahahah

Impersonations, though, are outrageous, vile acts for which offenders should be deleted and/or banned. Even when it is obvious to most readers that the post is a fake, there may be some readers that are fooled because they don't know the victim well enough or they don't read carefully enough to detect the fakery. I have no problem with the sharing of IP addresses of such offenders. Identify theft is inexcusable, whether done for the purposes of financial assault or to unfairly discredit someone's reputation

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), June 22, 2000.

Sorry, Dancr, nothing personal. I used you as an example when I could have just described what I meant. I just think it is dangerous to have a web-site such as yours. It's too easy for some nut-case to trace you.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), June 22, 2000.

Apology accepted.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), June 22, 2000.

Personally, I would be careful even with real EM ad's. They can be traced by many sources and CAN lead to personal info. Take Diane as an example. She registered "sacredspaces.com" and ANYONE can look up her registry....address, phone #, other e-mail contacts, etc.

Be careful, people.

-- a (a@a.a.a.a), June 22, 2000.

Good grief. Do some of you people actually go outside and walk around in (gasp!) *public*? Surrounded by crowds of strangers with immediate physical access to your bodies? Where you're right there for them to do whatever awful things to you that you're imagining here, without even having to track you down? Gawd, the RISK you're taking!

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 22, 2000.

LOL Flint.

However, if some people were to climb on a soap box in public and say some of the things that have been said in this and other forums, then they might well have something to worry about.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), June 22, 2000.

Impersonations, though, are outrageous, vile acts for which offenders should be deleted and/or banned. Even when it is obvious to most readers that the post is a fake, there may be some readers that are fooled because they don't know the victim well enough or they don't read carefully enough to detect the fakery. I have no problem with the sharing of IP addresses of such offenders. Identify theft is inexcusable, whether done for the purposes of financial assault or to unfairly discredit someone's reputation

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), June 22, 2000

I agree with Dancr somewhat. I do not believe anyone should be banned or deleted - on either side of the debate. But in a supposedly "uncensored" forum, balance should rule. In this thread, the email address was changed, while no changes were made to the imposted Quotably Quoted #6. This is wrong.

Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), June 22, 2000.

AR,

Don't tell me you've never read the *hidden* "about" section for this forum? You were specifically mentioned as one of the people to be discriminated against, subtly at first, but then more blatently, just to keep the forum's interest in Y2K alive.

What are you complaining about? You're doing a great job!

Hopefully not letting the cat out of the bag,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 22, 2000.

Andy conveniently neglects to mention this thread in which someone has clearly impersonated Ed Yourdon, and yet, his email address was not changed. In order for this post to fit Andy's memetic theory, he has instead chosen to believe that the post really was from Ed Yourdon and that Ed has taken to calling his former doomer followers "pathetic jackasses." Andy has even offered Ed some faint praise for doing so.

Or perhaps it isn't Andy Ray.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 22, 2000.

Speaking of addy's:

I have posted a very few times on EZboard. Everytime that I do, my mail box fills with bounced returns from MIT addresses. What do you suppose that means?

Gregor

-- Gregor (Gregor10001@yahoo.com), June 22, 2000.

Gregor,

It means you shouldn't use your real addy.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 22, 2000.

Frank:

Good point. I don't go there enough to know, but I think that your suggestion is not an option. Controlled environment. I just wondered what the MIT thing was.

Greg

-- Gregor (Gregor10001@yahoo.com), June 22, 2000.

Fact Finder:

Thanks for the response, my non blonde is showing...lol...

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), June 24, 2000.