Hi, It seems most people on this forum are fairly religious. Are most homesteaders religious? Do you all leave the homestead to go to church every week? Do you travel far to get to church? I know some here are Jewish and most seem Christian. Any other religions or churches represented amongst the homesteading crowd? I am just curious. As for me, I was raised in a Lutheran home in Sweden (where up until not too long ago everyone was "born into" the state church, so the diversity of religions and churches that exists here in the U.S. is AMAZING to me), but I don't attend church anymore. I do believe in something higher that connects us all. I believe in goodness, kindness, and love, and I live by the golden rule (or try atleast!!) Thank you, Helen

-- Helen (bluechicken@wildbearnet.net), June 15, 2000

Answers

hi helen , i am not very religious in the sense that we go to church or even "belong" to one. i have been realy tring to find a group that i feel we fit into, so far no luck. i was raised catholic as was my husband, our children were baptised but i feel there is still something missing that the church can not help me with.maybe some day we will find it but for now we keep looking.a few things happened with the church that realy turned me off and since then i have realy lost faith with them and the folks that attend,i teach my kids to be kind, love and to believe in what your heart tells you to even if others do not agree.

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), June 15, 2000.

Helen: No I'm not religious. But a funny thing happens to me once in a while. I'll be chopping wood or just sitting by the fire with my cat and all the sudden I'll be completely overwhelmed by feelings of love and peace of mind. It's almost like pain! I take it as a sign of living a life that I should. I've often wondered if other homesteaders have that happen. Bet they do....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), June 16, 2000.

My Grandfather brought the state church from Sweden with him also. Augustanian Lutheran. My Father, after a 20 year stint as a "weapons of war" designer, became a Mo. Synod Lutheran Minister. I was raised in a very christian home and lived in a very unchristian world. I agree with both the above posts, I have felt Kirk's peace and like I teach the children to share, love,care and to have honor and quiet dignity. I have been ask to leave several churches for statements like--" I serve a living God and and a risen Saviour, and if he was here today, he would be turning over the tables and driving you heathens out of his house." I firmly believe that God has very little in common with today's organized church and nothing in common with America. We still attend church three times a year but never the same church twice. Other than these times, we worship at home or with my father at his home during the week. I find the biblical passage-" wherever 1 or 2 are gathered in my name, there I am also"- to be comforting ! Thus ends today's message as I am probably preaching to the choir. Go in Peace !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), June 16, 2000.

I guess when I hear the word "religious", I cringe a bit. I personally have scorned the "organized" religions and more or less consider myself a believer or Christian. Religious doesn't necessarily mean Christian and visa versa. I believe Christian to mean "Christ like" and many "religious" folks are far from that. To live a life so intertwined with nature I believe, for the most part, one ends up having no choice but to believe in a creator and not the "accidental happening" of nature as the alternative offers as an explanation for our existance. Life on this Earth is just too intricate and intertwined to not have a common origin. And living a life where you touch, hear, smell, see the miracles of life daily, sooner or later, you will get in synch and get carried with it, like the current of a river. Like a man once said: "if you continually fool around on the bank of a river, sooner or later you are going to fall in."

I agree, those moments of "well being" and "peaceful easy feelings" are moments when you are in perfect harmony with God's perfect will for his creations. And, everyone can have those moments whether they believe or not...it is bigger than religion.

-- Jim Roberts (jroberts1@cas.org), June 16, 2000.

Hi all, I was raised Catholic but no longer go to church. I also feel like Kirk and Jim, that I get a whole lot more religion being outdoors than I do in a church. I have a deep and personal faith that God and I are o.k. with and don't feel I need a church to enforce it. Watched a movie called "Stigmata" a week or so ago. The movie was alright, but they said a phrase in it that really stuck with me. "The Kingdom of God is inside you and all around you, not in the mansions of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood and I am there, lift a stone and you will find me."

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), June 16, 2000.

While I was raised Catholic, I left the church very early. I don't consider myself to be a quote "Christian" unquote, although I do try to live by Christian ideals. The Ten Commandants would make for a great society if they were followed by all, whatever their other religious beliefs. Thou shall not kill. Probably more people have been killed in the name of God than any other unnatural cause.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), June 16, 2000.

to kim, kirk, annie, and ken, ditto on the spirituality that living with nature gives. don't find the blessings of nature in a church, but under the open sky, with dirt between the toes. laura

-- laura cavallari (ladygoat13@aol.com), June 16, 2000.

Hello Helen, I am rather like you. I live simply as possible.

Nor do I, lets see,, a polite way to say this without getting people mad,,,I keep to myself with my views.

As I think people that feel stongly about their reliegin is ok since it is what THEY want,, so long as they don`t try to force it on other people. Everyone has their own ideals, and reasons why they do or don`t go to church and I think church going people should respect that.

-- Bergere (Autumnhaus@aol.com), June 16, 2000.

I am an an Atheist, as was my mother. My grand parents were singing Methodist's and my Great Grandfather was a Methodist minister.

-- Hendo (redgate@echoweb.net), June 16, 2000.

I can't speak for all homesteaders, but I can speak for me, and the answer is yes, if "religious" encompasses "spirituality". Sometimes religion seems to equate dogma being shoved down your throat. !! I belong to an organized Protestant Church, which has roots that go waaay back. Please understand that Christianity has many "flavors" and not every church tries to guilt you into submission. My congregation is very open, accepting, and sees diversity as a positive thing.

Okay, before I get too far on that one (!) I also go to church every Sunday & used to go to Bible study once a week but my class schedule interferes with it now. I also see this participation as a natural adjunct to how I feel about building community as well. Church is part of our community. I have met some of the most wonderful people in my life at church...also some of the most *outrageous* and courageous men and women!

I just violated my rule about posting religious stuff on this forum...ARGGGGHHHHHHH!!! oh well.....

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), June 16, 2000.

My mother was Catholic, my father was Methodist and they raised me Luthern. However, having been burnt out by the ritualistic dogma, I now consider myself "non-denominational" in that I try to be as "Christian" as I humanly can, and do not claim to be Luthern, Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc. and go to church were the Gospel is preached and the folks aren't superficial. Currently my family is attending (but we aren't "members" of) a Baptist church that we drive a good 10 miles to get to, although there are churches closer. Not that I agree with everything the "Baptist Church" says / does, but the preacher is a man of God, he practices what he preaches, and we've met some good God fearing folk, so we go.

-- Eric in TN (ems@nac.net), June 16, 2000.

Hmmmm. Very interesting. Not the responses I expected.

90% of all Americans are "religious" in the sense that they believe in some form of "higher power." I believe less than 30% (20%?) regularly (more than once a year?) attend an organized religious service. Sounds like homesteaders are a typical cross-section (that always surprises me - I guess I expect us to be more different from the rest).

Personally I believe that humans are humans and as such are EXTREMELY fallible. I think the devil keeps us out of church (synagogue, mosque, etc) by encouraging us to have unrealistic expectations of the other people there - especially the designated leader (priest, pastor, rabbi, . . .) I think God wants us to gather together in Fellowship (community), if for no other reason than to practice forgiveness. IMHO.

A great (and short) book: "Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis.

-- Deborah (ActuaryMom@hotmail.com), June 16, 2000.

I am a Christian. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and is God himself in triunity. I believe that the world is sinful and that we all are in desperate need of Christ's gift of Salvation. I believe that Christ was born of a virgin into a world created, not evolved, and that he died on a cross as the perfect sacrifice for my sins. I am ever so grateful that he did. Having said all that, I am not religious. The word religious implies things that do not apply to me. One can be religious about all sorts of things. I would call myself a devoted follower of Christ. I would call myself a child of the King, but not religious. I worship regularly with other Christians of like mind. I too feel closest to God among His creation, although I feel it is important to fellowship with other Christians, because his word commands me not to "forsake the assembling" of ourselves together. I praise the Lord everyday that he forgave all my sins, past ,present and future, when he came into my life. I serve Him, because I Love Him, and because he loved me enough to die for me.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), June 16, 2000.

You can be religious about putting your right shoe on before your left. You can go to church religiously, but that doesn't make you a Christian. I agree with Little Bit. I also agree with Eric about denominations. Since my husband has a music ministry, we go to all denominations. There won't be any Baptist lines or Methodist lines or Church of God lines in Heaven. I personally would like to have services held outdoors when weather permitted, and would like to not have to have the same order of service every time. I think it would be fine to have singing before and after preaching, or after the sermon, or some services just singing(full gospel does this). Discussions sometimes instead of just sermons. I like the small town churches that have lots of carry-ins(Pot-luck dinners). That's a nice time to fellowship. A big part of the problem today is, people just don't know what Christianity is all about.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), June 16, 2000.

I'm not religious in the Church going sense however I do think of myself as spiritual. Translate that to an awareness of the connectedness of it and us all. I'm with Kirk, Jim, and others of a similar stance.

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), June 16, 2000.

Ken the correct translations is not "thoushalt not kill" it's "thou shalt not do murder"

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), June 16, 2000.

I wouldn't say I was religious! I believe the Bible is God's word! "I have been crucified with Christ & I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me & gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20 "Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is a faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him & keep his commands." Deuteronomy 7:9 I attend church regularly---do not even care what the sign says above the door, if they preach the Bible! I personally could not have faith, love, or hope, or carry on my life with out my sweet Jesus. Prayer is as much a part of my life as breathing! I respect what others believe--but because of my beliefs, I will pray for everyone! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), June 16, 2000.

I'd say that homesteaders likely run all over the map when it comes to religion and spirituality. I know many deeply religious Christian homesteaders, one atheist, one Islamic and one who follows Odin. For myself I'm neither atheist nor agnostic but religion is a very personal thing to me and I don't discuss it with any but a very small group of people. Some feel a need to mention or discuss their faith and others do not.

There's just all kinds of reasons why people homestead and that's as it should be.

............Alan.

The Prudent Food Storage FAQ, v3.5

http://www.ProvidenceCo-op.com

-- A.T. Hagan (athagan@netscape.net), June 16, 2000.

You can put me down as not religious, yet I consider myself spiritual.Raised by a catholic Mom and Jewish dad who sent us kids to church to learn morals. Still deciding whether God is a single being or nature all around us. Haven't decided whether the bible is to be taken literally or figuratively. Will probably be trying to figure that one out for as long as I live.

-- Sue (sulandherb@aol.com), June 16, 2000.

As the famous singer John Cash once told a young Christian interviewing him for an article--"Are you religous"? Johns answer- "No, I'm a Christian. You can worship a hog and be religious"! I tend to agree with Little Bit Farm. I'm a blood bought Christian and it's my duty to tell everybody I come into contact with that Christ is in the saving business. I'll not shove it down anybodys throat but present it as He wants and let others decide for themselves. Nuff said! Matt. 24:44

-- hoot gibson (hoot@otbnet.com), June 16, 2000.

The fact that- you believe, or,- do not believe- does not change the fact that I admire your right to believe it. Point in fact--Anything Hendo says works, I would try and if I screwed it up, I would ask him what I did wrong. There are many others in here that I feel the same way about. I almost wish I had time to raise sheep so I could count on sheephish to guide me thru it. I wish I had the youth, stamina and faith of Abigail, who's views and intelligence I find hope for the world thru. I wish I could write like Doreen and sometimes(not often) I agree with Vickii. The fact that I consider myself to be a christian does not change the fact that these are my fellow men and women ! My belief was deeply expressed by LBF and in much better words. I still count everyone as an equal with no exceptions !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), June 17, 2000.

I wonder if being raised with religion and church makes it more likely for someone to be a believer? I wasn't raised with it so I find it very hard to believe. I love the church community, I have found full gospel to be very nice and enjoyable. But I also understand that enjoying yourself isn't what it is about. I cant seem to muster the conviction and passion that others have for God. I even find the Bible good reading and very instructional. It confirms the morals I was brought up with anyway. I wish I could feel wholeheartedly that Jesus is my saviour too. It would make the purpose of this life so much more clear. I am even saved and felt something for awhile but it didnt stick. I Have found help from Christians and non-christians. I have also been disappointed by both. So I guess I would say I'm not religious but strive to live ina way beneficial to my family and others. Denise

-- Denise (jphammock@earthlink.net), June 17, 2000.

Both my husband and I were raised Catholic. The parish priest after hearing we wanted to marry raised a ruckus because he thought my husband should be a priest instead! (The kind, loving, non-judgmental person he still is.) We haven't attended church for many years. What we were taught were "sins" and that we were going to burn in hell for are now "acceptable" in the church, such as eating meat on Fridays, not going to other churches, etc. Our son was not raised Catholic. I have no regrets. I cannot support churches that maintain expensive architecture instead of helping the poor and disadvantaged.

-- Sandy (smd2@netzero.net), June 17, 2000.

Do I believe that a God created everything?.... No. I do however feel that there are probably non-physical entities around that may be able to interact with the physical world.

Even though I was raised conservative Baptist, belief in any religion has never appealed to me. I do admire the accomplishments that belief in a higher power has enabled people to do though. So if somebody wants to believe I feel its their personal choice, as long as they dont try to "save" me. I dont understand it, but its their choice.

I feel (pretty strongly too) that the universe is a much more wondrous place without a "God" concept getting in the way with the "thats just the way he made it" explanation of the incredible elegant complexities of everything that arises from the underpinings of matter and energy and the relatively simple rules that govern it.

If hard pressed I guess the only "faith" I have that I could mention is in mankinds potential and the hope that we can live up to it.

-- Dave (AK) (daveh@ecosse.net), June 17, 2000.

I'm a christian but I don't consider that a religion but rather a relationship. For those who were raised in a "religious/legalistic" church and feel that something is missing, or have been disappointed in some way, please remember that God is not synonymous with religion. Religion is fallible, God isn't. Never stop searching for the truth, the journey will make you stronger. Check out www.drdino.com, he's a creation scientist that offers a lot of info. through seminar tapes, even says he'll reward someone $250,000 if they can scientifically prove evolution.

-- Lenore (archambo@netins.net), June 17, 2000.

I accepted Jesus Christ as personal savior while watching a Bill Graham crusade while I was a young US Army Staff Sergeant back during the Vietnam era. It changed my whole life. It's not a religion. It's a realtionship. Eagle

-- eagle (eagle@alpha1.net), June 18, 2000.

Denise, Thank God for your struggle, He's doing a good work in your life. I was raised in a church and even went to a Christian College for a year, but it wasn't real, I was going through the motions-I performed well. I rememmber standing on a street corner in Minneapolis during college year wondering if there really was a God, He sure wasn't real to me. I struggled for many years and quit going to church completely. I've had a harder than average life and through my struggles I finally found reality. I demanded God reveal himself to me many times, everytime He did, I'd run the other way, I'm not one to trust anybody and I wanted to hold on to what control I thought I had. I finally got to the point where I couldn't struggle any more. I started seraching for help and answers in the right places. I started calling all the unusual sounding churches in the yellow pages-I sure didn't want to get hooked up with a traditional, boring church. I was going to go to a different church every week til I found the truth. I came across a Full Gospel church with a good name. I called and talked to a woman for a very long time. Remember, that I was in a really bad situation and very cycnical. The most imortant thing she said was "God's way, is to make a way, where there's no way". I told God He'd have to prove it to me. I also told Him I wanted to know for sure or give the whole thing up forever. Nothing happened. I did go to that church, still nothing happened. About a week later something happened. God let me know in such a wonderful, peaceful way that He is for real, He didn't use anything loud or earthshaking, He gave me a knowing inside(not a feeling), an understanding, while I was driving. That was about 9 years ago. I have still had many struggles in my life, I've even had some doubt. Many people doubt their salvation. When I do have a doubt, I thank God, because doubt will draw you closer to God. I still hold onto that phrase-God'way, is to make a way, where there's no way. I hope you can find something in my experience that will help you find the security you're searching for. Remember you cnanot be good enough or work hard enough to be saved. Salvation is a gift. Also remember, God is faithful.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), June 18, 2000.

Hi Helen,

Am I religious? Well, let me tell you about the church I attend.

It has a huge vaulted ceiling that stretches as far as the eye can see in various shades of blue. An amazing lighting system that starts with a humongous light bulb at one edge of the ceiling and progresses on some invisible track to the other side of the ceiling. Then it disappears and is replaced by countless thousands of little light bulbs. Something about setting the mood for worship. I don't know how He maintains all those lights. Must have a really long extention ladder stashed somewhere. The floor is a patchwork of textures and colors and was built with all kinds of materials. It's an old building, so besides the flat stretches, there are a lot of warped and rumpled areas.

The church has an interesting heating system. Not only from the big light bulb I mentioned, but a lot of heat pours from the basement through the floor vents. Just don't stand too close. Occasionally, one of the floor vents lets go and some pretty dangerous stuff boils out. The plumbing system is pretty realiable, but again, pipes burst and send water cascading all over the place. Sometimes you just plain have to run for your life.

There are lots of pews with all kinds of parishoners. Some people aren't sure why they are there. Others know exactly why they are there. The head priest lets people decide for themselves. You've heard about church mice? Well, this church has mice and dogs and cats and zebras and elephants and lions and sheep and goats and many other kinds of creatures wandering all over the place. Some are penned in. Others roam free. Watch where you step.

I'm told that when I finally leave the church, I can view it from a different place and from different angles. I'm not entirely positive about this as only one person came back after he left to tell us about it. There are church bulletins that can give you more information.

But all in all , it's a fascinating old church. I don't think the building committee ever stops meeting. They're always tinkering with the floor plans. Sometimes I wish they'd leave well enough alone. I mean, the church name was bad enough. Earth. The building has a pool that covers 2/3s of the total floor space and they call it Earth. Oh well. Hope you can drop by. But then, if you haven't noticed, you're already here!

(:raig

-- Craig Miller (CMiller@ssd.com), June 18, 2000.

I am a member of Craig's church. Kim

-- kim (fleece@eritter.net), June 18, 2000.

I think I'll sit in the Powder River Area of that church with the Dog Soldiers. I truly admire a man whose creative thinking and imagination out weigh his ego --very well done, Craig !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), June 18, 2000.

Hellen asks if homesteaders are religious. I am not "religious" but I am a christian of a different sort. I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe God is the one and only God. I believe the Holy Spirit is what is inside us that tells us when we do something wrong. Some of us call it a conscience. I do go to church as often as I can, depending on what's going on on the homestead. I don't believe it is absolutely necessary to go to church. God is everywhere as many of you point out. I personally need the fellowship. It is difficult to live and work on a homestead and see the miracles daily and not believe in a higher power. Take care. God bless you all.

-- tammy bunger (jbunger@zoomnet.net), June 20, 2000.

I'll admit yhat I have only scanned previous posts. I am a Deist, which means I believe in a God. I am not intelligent enough to figure our if Catholics, the myriad Protestants, the Muhammidists, the Buddhists, the Great Spirit followers, or anyone else is "right"! I believe in God, and for me it is "my" God! I guess it doesn't make much difference to me how you "climb the mountain", only that you do! Hope to see you all there, and I strongly suggest that my way will get ME there! Have fun, treat your neighbors right, and I'll bet it will work! If not, see some of you in a less desireable place! GL!

-- Brad (Homefixer@SacoRiver.net), June 20, 2000.

I wasn't raised in a church family. I never attended church until I married my husband. His whole family was very close and they attended the same church for 75 yrs. I never felt like it was for me. And one day my father-in-law said,"You don't have to go to a building, filled with lots of people, who know "everything" to be blessed!" He has been dead for 14yrs and I will never forget those words. Blessed I am,I have three happy, healthy, independent childern, a husband who after 28 years of marriage still calls me several times a day to say I love you or how are things, and I have those wonderful "feelings" when I least expect them.I do not attend a church,( unless you consider sitting outside on the most wonderful property in N.C. a church!) Religious, no--blessed Yes!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), June 20, 2000.

Y'all jiven me, right? I quit reading this after bout half way through, but, lemme tell ya: You folks are on some kind of bad trip, man. Sheeeeesh!

Little Bit Out There

-- Thoughtfully Yours (yerkidenme@raght.?), June 21, 2000.

I hope everyone realizes you do not have to depend on luck to get to heaven. Nor can works get you there. It is a free gift bought by Christ's crucifixion and all we have to do is believe and accept it. I sure don't want to take any chances of burning for an eternity. We can never do enough to earn salvation, praise the Lord, we don't have to! John 3:16

-- barbara (barbaraj@mis.net), June 21, 2000.

Hey Barb, you're back! Hope you're feeling lots better and hope to hear from you more often on the forum.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), June 21, 2000.

I am not religious. I was raised without religion, but I count among my good friends Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Jehovah's Witnesses, Bahais, and atheists. To practice anything would require habit, and the only thing I am truly habitual about is tea, so sometimes I say I am a Teaist. That is not to say I do not have a spiritual aspect, but that ain't nobody's business but my own.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), June 21, 2000.

Hi Helen: I guess by now you see we are not all religious. I was raised Southern Baptist, but I now have no reason to believe there is any God watching over us. I can't accept something by faith when not a shread of concrete evidence has been offered to substantiate it. I'm a very scientific kind of guy, and I want to see the proof. I might also add that organized religion is the root cause of all wars and most other suffering of mankind. Christianity has been used to justify the oppression of women, the mistreatment of children, the killing of "witches", cruelty to animals, and slavery. It remains only as a crutch for those not strong enough to accept their destiny as worm food. May it soon die its natural and well-deserved death. Jim

-- James Carson (catchthesun@yahoo.com), June 21, 2000.

This former Countryside editor finds many posts on this forum at strange odds with what readers wrote in pre-internet days, but this one takes the cake!

Id guess that about half the snail mail I got over my 30-year stint showed VERY strong christian fundamentalist leanings.

Does this mean things have changed or are the fundamentalists still using the USPS, leaving the internet to the others?

-- Jd (belanger@tds.net), June 21, 2000.

Hi Jd, do you suppose it has to do with demographics in general? Are the boomers your readers now, in contrast to some other population of the last 30 years? If so, are we (boomers, as it appears from the posts here) then more "tolerant"? (Fundies, don't flame me!) Just wondering...it's a good question!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), June 21, 2000.

i think that homesteaders are more likely to be independent thinkers, that is, people who think outside the box. I mean, how many other people would even consider chicken feet and heads as being even remotely edible? If we wanted to be like everyone else, and live in houses "made of ticky tacky that all look just the same", we'd live in the city or suburbs. From what I have seen, even the Christian folks on this forum tend to be the types who have put some real thought into why they believe what they do, and tend to be more individualistic, not the type to just sit passively in church week after week and swallow whatever the pastor tells them as the gospel truth just because he said it! As for me, I was raised a Lutheran, and found it to be very dry, and ultimately, dead and lifeless. When I started really reading the scriptures with as open a mind as possible( it's kind of hard to do if you've been taught the church dogma as fact your entire life), I found that I'd been lied to about many things. A little look into the history of Christianity has me disenchanted enough not to want to call myself a Christain, why are labels so necessary anyway? Judaism has something they call the righteous gentile, which seems to be what the early New testament Christians were. It entails seven things: abstaining from blasphemy, idolatry, theft, murder, illicit sex, eating the "limb of the living", and establishing courts of justice. This is even less than the ten commandments, which some Christians say were given only to Israel, and if you think about it, observance of the seven things would have far reaching effects on any person's life if they really applied them. I for one, find the concept to be very appealing and liberating, and after much searching of the scriptures, cannot find anywhere, where it says that if you are not born again, you will burn in hell and be tortured forever and ever and ever! How many of us would wish that on someone who was a good person, but wasn't saved when they died? If we being human and finite, wouldn't exact such a punishment, how in the world can we attribute someting like that to an eternal, perfect, infinitely wise being whose mercy endureth forever? The bible doesn't say that such people are punished in that way, it says that the dead know nothing. It does speak of eternal punishment for the truly wicked, but the original wording is not the kind of eternal that goes on indefinitely, it is a final kind of punishment. I think that the concept of hell has been something used by organized religion to get us all to be afraid of God, and to get us to dance to the church's tune or we'll go to hell. Just my two cents worth. ;)

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), June 22, 2000.

I'm not "religious" - I just love the Lord Jesus Christ. And I believe that the Bible is the living word of God.

-- Jean (schiszik@tbcnet.com), June 22, 2000.

I would like to invite those who do not believe in hell to read Revelations 20:11-14, Isaiah 66:24 and Mark 9:47-48. I do not wish to argue with people on this forum but I would hate to see any perish for lack of knowledge. I urge everyone to read and STUDY the Bible. I will not say anymore on this post as I do not believe it is the intention of this forum to discuss religion. For those who do not believe in the Bible, how do you explain the predictions made in the old testament that have come to pass and what about the dead sea scrolls. Please pray about it.

-- barbara (barbaraj@mis.net), June 22, 2000.

One can take the Bible seriously, while not necessarily literally. For instance, a lot of Hebrew Testament writings came from old oral stories passed down over the millennia. As country folk here, you know how a good story can take on a few embellishments as it gets told over and over! However, it doesn't make the story any less compelling, nor in a sense, any less "true."

One reason I "subscribe" to Christianity, is because it fits our culture, language, etc., to the extent that something that old (and to me, profound) can. It's hard enough to "understand" something so ethereal presented in even something culturally familiar.

I think for some people, religion is old, dead, rules, punishments, stories that are impossible to prove (therefore irrelevant) etc. I submit that if you revisit some of these concepts with a new attitude (you might want to find a "spirit guide"!), you might be surprized at how alive organized "religion" can be. There's some exciting churches, church people, and really fascinating scholarship going on out there!

Ok, absolutely no more lecturing here. I have said enough. Anyone can email me if they want.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), June 22, 2000.

Jim, More people over the last 2000 years have tried to make Christianity die and yet it hasn't and it won't. The reason it won't is because although, you choose not to believe in Him, god won't let it. I am praying for you.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), June 22, 2000.

Thank you all for satisfying my curiousity! My question seemed to strike a cord in everybody, so despite our diversity we are in a way united. It has been very interesting to read all the responses. What a great group of people. Spiritual in so many ways. I love it. Thank you again for sharing, Helen

-- Helen (bluechicken@wildbearnet.net), June 22, 2000.

Helen, I am a Christian, but I am not religious. I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I believe in the Bible, and I try to live by it as much as I can. I do not go to "church". I "homechurch" with a friend and her husband. There are two reasons why I do this:

1. My husband does not believe, and refuses to go to church. I have been unable to find a church in my area (North Georgia) that will not judge me for "marrying a non-believer". Even the church I was raised in hounds me when my husband does not go with me, so I have given up on trying to feel accepted in church. I don't think that we should go somewhere where we feel like a total outcast and try to worship God. I don't think that God ever intended for it to be that way... Which brings me to my second point:

2. I don't believe that the "modern" church is Biblical. The places that people call "church", do not fit with the description of the church in the New Testament! We are not supposed to run the "church" as a business! We don't even have to have a building. We are not called upon by the Lord to pay the power bill for the church. We are called upon to serve and worship the Lord, and to help others. How can we "help" the needy in our community if all of our "tithes" are going to pay the power bill and keep the church bus running?

I could go on and on here, but I won't. I am not trying to ruffle any feathers, I am just stating what I believe!

-- Linda (botkinhomeschool@yahoo.com), June 22, 2000.

Somebody once said going to church doesn't make you a christian any more than going to macdonald's makes you a hamburger.

-- Jd (belanger@tds.net), June 24, 2000.