Fan wrote: "I am adamantly opposed to the homosexual lifestyle and absolutely nothing will convince me that the gay community should be accepted into mainstream society or excepted from the label of moral degenerates. I have always had a live and let live attitude but that was before the homosexual community decided they were not only to be considered normal but in addition special and deserving of exemptions from historical and religious guidelines."

Now this shows the bigot within fan. But first I want to comment on the second sentence. Fan had been arguing that abusing children is the way gays convert the young and (my conclusion for this active convert method) of course gays need to have more gays around to have fun. However according to this last statement, if they didn't demand more in the way of special rights then it would be ok. Live and let live as long as you keep quite about it. Sad that people think this way.

Now the first sentence... Once again gays, as bad as they are, shouldn't be accepted for who they are, people. They're in every part of society, doctors, lawyers, engineers, designers, and students. Can't change who they are and don't deserve to be tied to a post and beaten to death for being who they are. Sounds are lot like the thinking of black people back a half century ago, too. Blacks didn't need to be accepted into mainstream society, afterall they were not even considered a class. So, we come down to the real reason Fan believes this way, bigot. Nothing more, nothing less. Hard to argue with a bigot for they never change their minds, as Fan admitted in that sentence.

Fan how's that for saying what I believe?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), June 15, 2000

Answers

Maria,

"Can't change who they are".

It looks like you've bought the propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Why don't we let thieves, murderers, and rapists off with the same reasoning? They've tried to stop stealing, killing, and raping, but they just can't!

I guess I am just a thief, murderer, and rapist bigot, right?

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

It looks like you've bought the propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Why don't we let thieves, murderers, and rapists off with the same reasoning? They've tried to stop stealing, killing, and raping, but they just can't!

I guess I am just a thief, murderer, and rapist bigot, right?

Why do we let left-handed people off with the same reasoning? Some have tried to stop using their left hands for throwing and writing, but they just can't! They should be punished!!

I guess I am just a left-handed bigot, right? LOL

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 15, 2000.

hmm,

That is funny, but of course, off base. Unless you are aware of something that I am not, being left handed doesn't proclude you from propagating the species. Homosexuality does.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

J, I was going to put a comment after that statement but refrained. "Can't change who they are (unless you're a religious fanatic who believes they can change)". So now you're comparing being gay to being criminal? I see.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), June 15, 2000.

That is funny, but of course, off base. Unless you are aware of something that I am not, being left handed doesn't proclude you from propagating the species. Homosexuality does.

Celibacy precludes one from propagating the species. Should celibates be punished as well?

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 15, 2000.

What punish? Just don't give them special privilages! They have the same right to life liberty and happyness as the rest of us. Just because Joes church down the road and the Boy Scouts don't want them as members doesn't say anything bad about those organizations anymore than the CIA excluding ex-drug users from security clearances is a bad thing. Private companys have for years made exclusions and given some groups of people different benifits and such. Try insurance if you are a smoker for example. A friend of mine was just recently given a BIG bump up in his insurance premiums because a blood test showed nicotine in his system from the snuff he had started using.

Don't talk about fairness and such. Anybody here can name a halfdozen different groups of people in this country who are discriminated aganst at any time. the current bad people are of course the smokers. The can't even rent some apartments without changing their behavior. Why shouldn't a property owner be allowed to decide who they can rent to from other groups of people? If they can write a no smoking clause into the lease, why can't they write a no gay sex clause in?

-- Just passin through (nobody@nowhere.com), June 15, 2000.

Maria,

I didn't say that homosexuality was criminal, I said that it was a BEHAVIOR, a CHOICE of actions. Your term of bigot for those who oppose homosexuality is wrong. My example of thievery, murder, and rape, was to show you that those who oppose the BEHAVIOR of a person are not bigoted. Those who oppose what a person is, are bigoted. Examples of what a person is (and can't change) would be: black, Asian, Indian, female, and left-handed. : ) Examples of what a person does (and can change) would be: steal, murder, rape, and engage in homosexual acts.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

hmm,

You have jumped to the same conclusion as Maria about my theft, murder, rape, analogy. See my comment to her above for clarification.

My point is not about punishing homosexuals, my point is about incorrectly being labeled a bigot for opposing homosexual BEHAVIOR. Being left handed is a trait, being celibate is a behavior choice.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

hmm,

By the way, if you really did have something against left handed people, you would be a bigot.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

WWJD?

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 15, 2000.

My point is not about punishing homosexuals, my point is about incorrectly being labeled a bigot for opposing homosexual BEHAVIOR.

By the way, if you really did have something against left handed people, you would be a bigot.

If I oppose left-handed BEHAVIOR, then am I a bigot?

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 15, 2000.

hmm,

Being left handed is like being blue eyed. It is not something that you choose.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

Ra,

Jesus would lovingly tell them the error of their ways, with His desire being that they change. Of course today, Jesus would be called a bigot for not embracing every deviant behavior that comes along.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

As an *unverified* aside,

As I understand it, the Moslem countries force all children to act in a right-handed fashion whether they were born that way or not, for some religious reason.

Are they *bigots* for this?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 15, 2000.

Y2J:

Please present the study that proved once and for all and beyond a shadow of a doubt that homosexuality is a learned behavior and not genetic in any way.

And while you are at it-please print Jesus' exact words regarding homosexuality-Do not regurgitate scripture "attributed to Jesus". I want and demand the exact words.

Y2J and Fan Attic-You do not own the world-you do not rule the world- you have absolutely no right at all in this world to dictate morality- why don't you pull that shit in your own neighborhood and see how it plays.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), June 15, 2000.

Being left handed is like being blue eyed. It is not something that you choose.

Being homosexual is like being blue eyed. It is not something that you choose.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 15, 2000.

Frank,

As I understand it, in most Moslem countries, they eat out of communal bowls with their right hands, and use their left hands for toilet paper. This is probably why they force children to use their right hand.

I would not call this bigoted, but practical. If, on the other hand, they continued to force left handed children into using their right hand after progressing to a point of civilization where utensils and real toilet paper were readily used, then I would say yes, the custom was bigoted.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

The studies are still inconclusive regarding homosexuality and nature vs. nurture, due to genetic testing being in its infancy. Since the proof is yet inconclusive, it makes sense to me to reserve discrimination. Studies of pedophilia have already been done, and it still amazes me how folks can equate pedophilia with homosexuality or even equate pedophilia with heterosexuality, when pedophiles are strictly associated with attraction to youth regardless of gender.

The difficulty in determining the genetic disposition of homosexuality versus left-handedness is mainly due to sexual preferences not being completely exhibited until puberty. It's certainly more apparent that a child was born left-handed when his fork is placed on the right side of his plate each day and repeatedly picked up with his left hand.

Religious teachings on what's appropriate or inappropriate for society could be applicable if societies all believed in the same religion. As it stands, however, Moslems consider it appropriate for women in public to cover the head, legs, arms, etc. Different religions honor different beliefs. One cannot expect society in general to honor ONE religion just because it is one's own, nor should society tow-kow to one religion at the exclusion of all others.

History is replete with examples of intolerance of differences. I see no change between the propaganda set forth today against homosexuals and the propaganda set forth in previous centuries against accused witches, etc.. Religion and ignorance were at the root then, and they're STILL at the root.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), June 15, 2000.

OTOH from a biological standpoint homosexuality is not "natural" any more than "oral sex" is natural. Both are dead ends for the organism.

But OTOH it would be interesting if a study could be done comparing the rate of homosexuals with population density, as if they were directly correlated it could be a "natural" way of population control.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 15, 2000.

hmm,

That is the crux of our disagreement. You believe that homosexuality is an innate defect, and I believe that it is a learned one.

FutureShock,

I don't care what you want, and I care even less what you demand. I will give you some of Jesus' exact words.

"Do not give dogs what is sacred;do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces".
Matthew 7:6 NIV

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

That is the crux of our disagreement. You believe that homosexuality is an innate defect, and I believe that it is a learned one.

LOL, I do not believe it is necessarily a "defect" any more than being left-handed is a "defect." In any case, you are correct in that I do not believe that it is a learned behavior while you believe that it is. If this is sounding familiar to you, it's probably because we covered this previously in this thread.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 15, 2000.

hmm,

I remember that thread. Always interesting to go back and reread, though.

As far as my use of the term, "defect", would a person born unable to reproduce be considered different, or defective? Lefties may do things differently, but they are still able to do them. If homosexuals are actually born that way, then they would, in fact, be reproductively defective.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

J:

I am sure it is not just what I myself want. I am sure hmm would beinterested, and Tarzan, and Anita, and many others who have not closed their minds.

Your qoute is from Matthew. Matthew is not Jesus.

-- FutreShock (gray@matter.think), June 15, 2000.

Future Shock, why are you so angry? Where have I given you the opinion that I rule the world as you say? I simply oppose the homosexual lifestyle and any attempts to legitimize or normalize the behavior of sick degenerates. Your red-faced reaction leads me to believe you may be a degenerate yourself and are auto-responding to those who would hold you up to the light of decent moral values.

Maria, I thank you for using the bigot card for it exposes you for the ignorant person you are. Your unflagging support of perverted sexual activities tells me that you are a person of low moral standards, if any. As has been said by others, the bigot response is the norm for those that have no solid position but want the proper words to flow from their mouth.

Anita, I will need some time to digest your witches and homosexuals analogy. Society managed to eliminate the witches (for the most part) so does it stands to reason that a similar fate awaits the gay community?

Before all of you I confess that I think the WNBA is a big joke. What label will that earn me?

-- The (fact@fan.attic), June 15, 2000.

FutureShock,

Closed minds? You won't accept that Matthew, who was with Jesus during Jesus' ministry, could correctly quote Him. Whose mind is closed?

By the way, it has been discovered in another thread that Tarzan is also known as Nerd Rustler. I am not accusing, but asking, if you might be also be Tarzan/Nerd Rustler?

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

I simply oppose the homosexual lifestyle and any attempts to legitimize or normalize the behavior of sick degenerates.

Indeed, I oppose the left-handed lifestyle and any attempts to legitimize or normalize the behavior of sick degenerates who use their left hands. Eeeeewwwww.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 15, 2000.

I think we ought to celebrate not castigate diversity.There is a higher pecentage of geniuses per head of population amongst left handed people,(report pub.Scientific Amer.'68)many dyslexics have a far greater spatial awareness & visualisation than "normal" people and I know of at least two homosexual rulers (Akbar the Great of India & Shah Ruf,Persia)who were responsible for commissioning the greatest flowering of Islamic culture the world has ever known.

As for using the ability to reproduce as a yardstick,I'm not sure whether that should be used in today's over populated world.Furthermore,it seems to me rather unwise to put such absolute faith in the words of the Bible which has undergone numerous translations & has been edited to suit political/sociological & religeous ideology.

Just a humble opinion from someone currently working on 3rd century Coptic ms.

-- Chris (griffen@globalnet.co.uk), June 15, 2000.

Fan:

So now you are the judge of what "degenerate" means? You are a sick degenerate as I would define it. I would define a sick degenerate as someone who would condemn another human being for any reason at all- as by doing so they assume a position of God-Who I do not believe condemns anyway. I define a moral degenerate as someone who would rouse hatred among others for ANY human being, regardless of their belief. I consider someone a sick denerate who goes around quoting heresy as truth, when it would not be admitted in a court of law. I consider a degenerate to be someone who would decide for everyone else what is right and what is wrong. You, my friend, are the sick degenerate. And I say that with all my love-tootsie.

J-

Nope, not Tarzan or Nerd. Have had my own handle since I have been here, and will always respond when anyone attacks ANY of God's creaures for their own vision of moral truth. I say that with all my love to you, too, sweetheart.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), June 15, 2000.

Chris, I must ask you where the line is drawn between cultural diversity and deviant behavior? You are making the mistake of isolating homosexuals from other deviants. Why? If your reasoning is to be followed than other groups, also shunned, should be allowed to hop on the diversity bandwagon. Lets see who else should enjoy these newfound freedoms of expectance by such a liberal society: Kiddie porn artists, Sadists, purveyors of bestiality, and all other degenerates who are just different than the rest of us.

You cant discriminate here: you must allow for ALL of this sickness to go on unrestrained. Your neighbor is mating with his animals you say. No problem, hes just being diverse. Happy trails!

-- The (fact@fan.attic), June 15, 2000.

Lets see who else should enjoy these newfound freedoms of expectance by such a liberal society: Kiddie porn artists, Sadists, purveyors of bestiality, and all other degenerates who are just different than the rest of us.

Don't forget the lefties!! Those sick degenerates! LOL

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 15, 2000.

What am I to do? I am a left-handed homosexual?

-- Elton John (Rocket@man.fuel), June 15, 2000.

Elton,

Didn't you also somehow end up filing for bankruptcy? With all that cash? Maybe the first thing you should do is get a financial manager.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 15, 2000.

Anita you have given us this pearl of wisdom:

The studies are still inconclusive regarding homosexuality and nature vs. nurture, due to genetic testing being in its infancy. Since the proof is yet inconclusive, it makes sense to me to reserve discrimination. Studies of pedophilia have already been done, and it still amazes me how folks can equate pedophilia with homosexuality or even equate pedophilia with heterosexuality, when pedophiles are strictly associated with attraction to youth regardless of gender.

Of course the hard data on the studies you reference, both complete and incomplete, are available for us all to see correct? Inconclusive is a great word for those that would argue against but should be taken with the proper amount of skepticism. Yes, it is true that studies of pedophilia have been done but why would you declare these to be complete? I guess the study results that line-up with your personal agenda need go no further but the others must continue to infinity.

Anita, when you see a human having sex with an animal you shouldnt need to wait for a completed report to realize something is amiss. To be outraged at deviant behavior is only labeled discriminatory by those who would support it. This is not tough to understand is it? If you do some research on pedophiles you will find that there is rarely a desire for mixed genders within an individual. The more excuses you make for the homosexual lifestyle the more excuses you will have to make for other alternative sexual behavior. You may desire that kind of world to live in but Ill locate to another neighborhood thank you.

-- The (fact@fan.attic), June 15, 2000.

Elton,

I didn't know that you were left handed. But aren't you a bisexual, and not a homosexual?

Which brings up an interesting point: are bisexuals supposedly just born that way, too? And to take a page out of Fan's book, what about those who practice bestiality, and pedophilia; are they just born that way?

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

J, did you hear about the bondage freak that had a tatoo on his arm, 'Born To Be Freed'.

-- The (fact@fan.attic), June 15, 2000.

LOL. Was he born with the tattoo, or was he just born with the uncontrollable desire to get the tattoo?

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

Research has shown that his 'captive' attitude is 'tied' to a defective gene configuration. He just can't 'escape' from his yearnings.

-- The (fact@fan.attic), June 15, 2000.

"Lets see who else should enjoy these newfound freedoms of expectance by such a liberal society: Kiddie porn artists, Sadists, purveyors of bestiality, and all other degenerates who are just different than the rest of us. "

Children are not capable of being consenting partners in the sex act due to their maturity level. Animals aren't capable of being consenting partners because they are not human. However, adult humans ARE capable of having consenting sexual relations (assuming there's no rape involved). Assuming it's consensual, why do you object so strenuously? What harm does it do you if the freaky circus sex in the next apartment is between two people of the same sex?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), June 15, 2000.

"By the way, it has been discovered in another thread that Tarzan is also known as Nerd Rustler. I am not accusing, but asking, if you might be also be Tarzan/Nerd Rustler?"

This is so cool. You guys must think I'm public enemy number one! What an ego boost.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), June 15, 2000.

Tarzan,

I don't think that you are public enemy number one. Just a few things started me thinking.

1)In the "Al Gore - Sanctimonious Slumlord" thread, when you posted as Nerd Rustler, FutureShock posted, "Everything Nerd said" right after you.
2)You and he share a lot of the same beliefs.
3)You made the mistake of blending your two handles, accidently exposing yourself as (at least) two different posters.
4)FutureShock had once accused me of posting under multiple handles.
5)And finally, in this thread, FutureShock stated, "I am sure hmm would beinterested(sic), and Tarzan, and Anita, and many others who have not closed their minds". The interesting thing about that comment is that "Tarzan" hadn't posted to this thread, yet. Well, at least not as "Tarzan" or "Nerd Rustler" he hadn't.

It piqued my curiosity how FutureShock knew in advance that Tarzan would be coming to this thread, that's all.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 15, 2000.

Nerd Rustler, Tarzan, Future Shock, ? ? ? ? ? ? ?yadda, yadda, yadda

The handle of Public Enemy Number One is normally associated with someone of character and substance, albeit criminal in nature. You however would not qualify as having ANY substance or credibility so dont flatter yourself. Instead, youve been caught playing with yourself; go to your room boy.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 15, 2000.

Anybody who has followed this BBS knows that I am not Tarzan-Me FutureShock-He Tarzan. Tarzan is an atheist-I am not. That's one difference. Our language, our syntax, are different. This is really humorous. I know J does not like me and I know Ra does not like my on- line persona as he would call it, so I am among friends in this thread!

Thanks for the laughs. And I love you all, sweeties.

-- FutureSHock (gray@matter.think), June 16, 2000.

Quite the volatile issue. I have to wonder how many are armchair activists (either side) and how many have tasted firsthand what they are speaking of. I have had very close relationships with a homosexual man, and a man whose wife left him because of a homosexual affair AND because he sexually molested their daughter. I believe his main preference is children (of either gender). Without the gory details, I know too well the trauma and lingering pain brought about my pedophilia. If it has not touched your life in a personal way, then your talk is really just yada yada. I have one very important question for those who defend the homosexual lifestyle, and delight in condescendingly noting the 'ignorance' of those they judge not to know the 'difference' between homosexuality and pedophilia. Answer this question, and then there is a real discussion to be had. Why do the national gay organizations support NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Lover Assoc.) rather than openly denounce them? For that matter, why did the gay pride parade in San Francisco allow a man to lead on a leash a little boy wearing a dog collar? Very interested in responses to these questions. Dancr, you sound like a very good mother on most threads, but your ambiguity on the negative impact of molestation is basically crap. I hope your son is never molested, but I am positive you would respond quite differently if such an evil were perpetrated on him. Pedophiles SEDUCE

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), June 16, 2000.

Hit the key too soon... Pedophiles seduce children who are vulnerable and who TRUST

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), June 16, 2000.

Dagnabbit, did it again... The betrayal of trust and love by pedophiles is devastating. Start talking to some adults who were victims and you will get very disturbing responses. Grown men who can't sleep without the light on, who cannot trust in relationships, and whose confidence and feelings of worth are devastatingly undermined. I will not reveal details, but I know at least seven people whose lives have been seared and undermined because they were molested. These were not violent acts by strangers, but all by a trusted and loved person. The irony is that the pedophile convinces him(her)self that they are bestowing 'love', rather than violating trust and stealing innocence. They usually do not feel what they did was wrong. They usually are not caught until dozens of children have been harmed. The common concensus among professionals in the psychiatric and criminal fields, is that a pedophile is never rehabilitated. It is not about sex and love, it is about CONTROL. Understand this, and you will never be ambivalent about pedophilia again. I hope and pray that those who read this will never be affected by this nightmare, but in any event, I also hope that you understand that I am writing from a firsthand perspective, and that I would not do this unless I hoped it would bring about some good for someone.

Thanks for listening, whoever you are.

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), June 16, 2000.

I posted as Nerd Rustler all of about five times because I was sick of every thread I posted to turning into a debate on religion. I know that such a thing is NEVER done on this board, and is tantamount to a capital offense.

Of course, the irony of the whole thing is that my name is not actually Tarzan the Ape Man either. And my e-mail address is not tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net. Fanattic/Ra are absolutely outraged that I chose to post under a different name when in fact, I highly doubt that their names are The and Ra.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), June 16, 2000.

Outraged! Why would you assume that I am outraged because you are a two-faced (at least) bullshitting clown. What I am is LMAO at your stupidity. You arent even clever enough to keep your fucking lies in order so now you are backpedaling in some laughable attempt to recover some degree of credibility. You and all of your associates are a joke. Now, if you can keep a secret (fat chance) Ill tell you something: My real name is not Rational One.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 16, 2000.

Thank you Joan. Unfortunately, there are folks on this board who would applaud ANY degenerate activity if they thought it was the current fad or politically correct thing to say. Generally these folks are a little short on common sense and real life experiences in the areas of comment. Like you said, let them be close to the traumas of the sexually sick and check out the new tude.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 16, 2000.

Mumsie, sorry to hear about those kinds of experience, but you've fallen into the trap of thinking very homosexual is a pedophile. This is simply not true. There are some sick, demented people out there but you can't blame gays for it. Sorry two different acts, sometimes perpetrated by the same kinds of people but one is not a subset of the other. Heterosexuals are pedophiles also. Peds are sick. Gays, as a group, are not sick, unless you're a religious fanatic who believes otherwise. I won't deny that gays have their number of sick people too. But their homosexuality is not grounds for declaring them sick. I know lots of gay men and women, not one of them is a pedophile and they are as normal as you and me. Fan and you just believe differently than I do.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), June 16, 2000.

You got that right. I was close to some left-handed degenerates and they were so vile and disgusting that I couldn't sleep for years.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 16, 2000.

Maria, you are correct when you state that all homosexuals are not pedophiles. You are also correct in stating that peds are sick. But you have fallen into the trap of beleiving that homosexuals are not sick and all those who would claim otherwise are religeous fanatics. You need to come up with a new excuse as that one dont fly anymore. I have friends that are drunk drivers so I guess that's OK,right?

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 16, 2000.

But you have fallen into the trap of beleiving that homosexuals are not sick and all those who would claim otherwise are religeous fanatics.

I fell into the trap of believing that left-handed people are not sick, but thank God I know better now, right?

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 16, 2000.

Left-handed people of the world repent!

Ra, so being gay is like being a drunk driver. I see. Just like J comparing gays to criminals. I see. How do you guys see anything from so high up? Lump everything you don't like into one giant bucket.

Fan, I use the bigot card when I see that you are one. Your head is so far up your arse, you can see daylight through your mouth.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), June 16, 2000.

Maria,

Maybe it's because we haven't been brainwashed by the liberal left to believe that EVERYTHING is permissible (except gun ownership). Of course, if we don't bow down to the political correctness of the left, then we are bigots.

Is homosexuality a choice of behavior, or an innate desire? Most who argue in favor of homosexuals believe that it is innate. Do you also believe this?

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 16, 2000.

OK Maria, I give up. Ive decided not to spend anymore time on this subject and Ill not slide down to your level of character assassination. I hope you have a wonderful life with no complications.

-- The (fact@fan.attic), June 16, 2000.

"You arent even clever enough to keep your fucking lies in order so now you are backpedaling in some laughable attempt to recover some degree of credibility."

Okay Ra, I'll bite. To what lies are you referring to?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), June 16, 2000.

Tarzan,

Lie- 1)a false statement or action, especially one made with intent to deceive 2)anything that gives or is meant to give false impression. From the Webster's New World College Dictionary, fourth edition.

I would say posting under two separate handles fits the definition. Unless of course you are a schizophrenic. : )

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 16, 2000.

You have a nice day too, Fan. But look up the word bigot, diehard. When you state, "absolutely nothing will convince me" sounds a little diehard to me. Funny you can't see past your own words.

J, I didn't think my politics had anything to do with this subject. Thanks for your simple-minded analysis but let me give you a little background. I voted down the law in Colorado that would give gays special rights and suffered the scorn of Barbra and her actor friends (said tongue in cheek, if you didn't realize). I believe that gays have all rights that the rest of US citizens, no more no less. I'm a registered republican and believe in many of their doctrines. But I also believe that religion has no place in politics, hense it should be left out of this thread. Can't stand the religious right and hate being lumped in with them because I am republican. Is that enough on where I stand on the topic?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), June 16, 2000.

ugh..did it again... I also understand from personal experience that there is not always a fine line with homosexual recruiting. Homosexuals themselves coined the phrase 'chicken hawk' to describe those who prefer the very young. I still did not see one response to my questions. See them above, and please respond.

(Ra...how did you know my name is Joan?)

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), June 17, 2000.

To the bigots on the forum re: nature vs nurture.....

With all the bitterness, hatred, hostility and discrimination against them, do you honestly believe that a homosexual would CHOOSE to be a homosexual if given the option?

And why do you feel you have the right to stick your noses into anybody else's life? Hmmmmmm?

I also want to know how the experiences in somebody else's bedroom negatively impacts your daily life.

And why is it that the "Christians" are the first to get bent out of shape over the issue despite the fact that their beloved bible and Jesus said "love one another"? Or is this just another instance of picking and choosing whatever damned bible verse you want to justify your own deficiencies?

Live and let live, people. Live and let live!

-- LunaC (LunaC@LunaC.com), June 17, 2000.

Joan, Ive been on this and the old TB2000 forum for a long time and I know the real names of many posters from this conversation or that. Dont hold your breath waiting for honest answers to your questions. Instead, expect more of the standard party line from folks like LunaC that know all about life without having lived it.

Got any kids LunaC? If some homosexual molests your young boy Im sure your attitude would be live and let live. And if your young daughter is molested by a bunch of biker dykes, why dont be upset they didnt choose to be that way. Of course any of us that oppose these sick fucking degenerates are just raging bigots so you can ignore us, right?

Our society is sliding into the sewer because irresponsible imbeciles such as LunaC are attempting to legitimize every sick, degenerate activity under the guise of personal freedom. And yes, I DO care what some weird fucks are doing in their bedrooms because sooner or later they take it outside into the public. We see it every day with increased frequency and until morons like LunaC wake up and start paying attention it will get worse. And also LC, you can forget the religious fanatic aspect. Most of our society is adamantly opposed to ANY legitimizing of homosexuals; they just wont waste their time arguing with simpletons like you.

Being a good person does not require you to sanction every disgusting group that lives on this earth.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 17, 2000.

Mumsie:

The gay community and NAMBLA have been at odds for YEARS. Here's just one sample of their conver sations.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), June 17, 2000.

Ra - And yes, I DO care what some weird fucks are doing in their bedrooms because sooner or later they take it outside into the public

LOL...are you speaking from personal experience?

If some homosexual molests your young boy Im sure your attitude would be live and let live.

Homosexuality in and of itself does NOT imply that molestation of any kind will occur. Molestation ofentimes is perpetrated by *heterosexuals* but you're too consumed by your "Christian" Righteous Indignation to make that distinction. Based on your irrational and illogical reasoning, we should just abolish all sexual expression because of your unjustified paranoic fears.

Your seething anger and abusive verbal outbursts are not only UNchristianlike but they also suggest that you have some serious psychological problems of our own that need resolution. Perhaps you should seek counseling for yourself before casting stones. Better yet, consider a lobotomy for a serious attitudinal overhaul.

-- LunaC (LunaC@LunaC.com), June 17, 2000.