I figure we've battled about every other major issue here; we might as well jump on this one.

What did you think of the government's actions? Do you think they did the right thing? And were you as surprised as I was to find out that the Miami relatives were the father's family?

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

Answers

I'd not read/heard much about the whole thing (hey, I like living in a cocoon) until after the raid. My feelings are that the boy should be with his father, and that it is not up to any government to decide Elian's fate. I do think the raid was rather excessive, But I don't know what else could have been done with his relatives refusing to release him.

The photos of a terrified Elian make me want to cry, but I am glad that he is now with his father.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

This is the one thing now that really sets me off on a rant. Personally, I think the raid had to happen -- it was the only was the Miami relatives would have ever let him go. They had been hedging and backing out of deals and generally enjoying the spotlight way too much to be trusted. I was worried all along that one of them, or one of their fans, would take Elian and run, go into hiding, and keep him from his father and any semblance of a normal life for a very long time. I think the allegations that the photos of Elian and his father are doctored are just silly.

I never actually knew who the Miami folks were ralted to -- I guess I just assumed they were the mother's family. So yeah, that did surprise me. I'm just wishing that everyone would go away and leave Elian and his father alone, let them get back to normal -- whether it's here or in Cuba, which doesn't seem to me to be an issue for anyone but the father and his wife to decide.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

When I first heard the news (at about 6am PST on Saturday morning), my hubby and I said simultaneously: "it's about fucking time."

But I don't see where Janet Reno had any other choice. The relatives would come close to an agreement and then back off. I imagine it was very frustrating not only for Reno, but for Elian's father. I also think that despite what they were saying, there was no way they were going to give up Elian. Reno and her advisors must have sensed that Elian's female cousin, Maryslesis (sp?), would give lip service during the negotiations, but when push came to shove, she found a convenient excuse to break off the deal.

IMHO, those relatives are INSANE. There's a screw loose somewhere. I think Lozaro's hatred for Castro has completely blinded him to the fact that he is using a 6 year old boy as a political pawn.

Until I saw video of the raid, I didn't even think of Elian's relatives in the context that they were, in essence, holding Elian hostage. I'm glad he's back with his father, I'm sorry he had to go through all of that, but I think more damage would have resulted had he continued to stay with the Miami relatives.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I think it was pretty clear the Miami relatives weren't going to voluntarily give him up, so some sort of action was needed. And if I had any doubt about their suitability as his guardians the way they've dealt with the raid would have ended it. To accuse the father of faking the pictures showing Elian hugging his dad? Seems a bit excessive and petty (not to mention unrealistic) to me.

On the other hand, I do wonder if there wasn't a way to take Elian that didn't involve waving machine guns around. I'd imagine he'll be having nightmares about that for some time.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I think it was about time they took him back to his father. If someone had my *dog* without my permission I'd be jumping up and down to get him/her back! Too bad it had to be done with semi automatic weapons, but Cuban-American relatives (and associated demonstrators) brought that upon themselves.

Now a question.... If his mother had lived, should she still have been allowed to take Elian from his father and bring him to a foreign country without prior permission? What if the country of origin were Canada rather then Cuba? Are we going to start allowing international kidnapping from any and all communist countries or those countries that the US government doesn't particularly like?

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

You know, a lot of people seem to be really upset about the fact that a gun was pointed in Elian's face.

I would like to point out that first of all, the government guys HAD to have guns with them. They didn't know what they were going to be facing inside that house. They didn't know if maybe the people inside were going to start shooting at them. And second, the guy did NOT intentionally point a gun into the kid's face. Look at the picture. He had his gun out, and he was opening a closet door. He didn't know what was in the closet, so that's why the gun was out. It turns out, it was a fisherman holding a six year old. I bet that gun didn't stay pointed at Elian for more than two seconds after the photo was taken.

Besides, speaking as someone who DID have a gun pointed in her face at the age of 6 (during a grocery store robbery), I can affirm that it really isn't that traumatic, as long as the gun doesn't go off. I have a feeling that it's significantly more traumatic to lose your mother and then be separated from your only other known relatives for the next six months.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

In my opinion, the Miami relatives are way too enamoured of the press they're getting, and someone should tell the always-yammering always- blubbering Marisleysis (or however you spell it) to shut the hell up. I don't think her elevator goes all the way to the top floor.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I think it's a bloody travesty that the Cuban exile community in Miami used this child as a pawn in their battle with Castro.

This morning on the train, it occurred to me that not once have I heard anyone question the sanity and parental suitability of a mother who would risk her life and her child's life in a dangerous ocean crossing in an unsafe vessel.

It's an impossible situation: we have the exile community telling us how much life in Cuba sucks but because of the embargo and travel ban (both ways) no one can manage to get there and provide the U.S. with information. I've read extremely paranoid opinions by people who think that Elian will become a ward of the state upon his return to Cuba - or that he will be brainwashed - or that if Juan decides to stay in the U.S., his remaining family in Cuba will be murdered.

All of which strikes me as patently absurd, logically speaking.

Anyway - glad Elian's with his dad, can't wait for them to go back to Cuba or whereever and can't wait for this news story to die down into something resembling journalism.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

You're right about the lack of commentary about the mother's fitness, Gabby. In fact, the only mention I've seen in that regard is from Michael Moore's message to Elian.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

Something else that occurred to me: the raid really seemed very much like a rescue mission to free a hostage -- which was, in essence, what that poor little kid was. And I'm with you, Robyn -- someone ought to muzzle that woman.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

Get. Him. Off. My. T.V. Before. I. SCREAM!

Please.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I was cheering for Janet Reno. An important point: the footage showing a gun pointed at Elian was, according to reports I heard on NPR, cropped (by CNN, I think) so that it looked like the feds were pointing a gun at Elian when in fact the agent's weapon was aimed at the adults. There was no other choice, and if the Republicans don't like the immigration law reforms that they enacted, they can vote to change them - the attorney general must enforce the law as written. The Miami relatives were in violation of the law. I also happen to think they're mad, but it's not germane to the point of law. Personally, although I think a gunpoint removal is probably pretty traumatic, I think watching your mother drown is worse. The things I find most appalling are the misleading portrayal of the realities of life in Cuba in the American media, and the idea that having access to consumer goods is more important than access to a loving father is especially grotesque.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I fall in with the general consensus here--it's about time they went in and got the kid out. There was NO way the relatives were going to give him up without a huge fight that would last indefinitely. In the current issue of Time one of the family members comments on how they hope the U.S. Courts will eventually award custody back to the relatives and send dad back to Cuba.

What? Don't hold your breath.

I understand why the raid went as it did. I don't argue against it and I certainly think that the Miami relatives were inflicting more psychological harm upon the child than any other course of action would have. Does anyone truly think it is psychologically healthy for the kid to have his home surrounded at all times by fanatic exiles and to be treated like the Second Coming?

If the dad wants to take the kid back to Cuba, I say let him. These Miami relatives chose FOR THEMSELVES (Elian did not choose for himself, his mother chose for him) to come to America and just because they came to America, they seem to think that any person who manages to wade here should want to stay just as desparately as they do. Crap. It's crap. I am happy I was born in America and I do not take that for granted; however, for people to assume that our country is the best in the freaking world and for Americans to say that a kid they have never met and will never meet should stay here just because it's so great and to hell with what his father thinks, that's plain egotism. It's disgusting. Send the kid back; his father should decide for Elian because THAT'S WHAT PARENTS DO.

I was listening to talk radio this past weekend and as usual, it was All Things Elian. The host (can't remember his name at the moment) made a good point. Do you honestly think that if Elian's father, instead of his mother, had died in the attempt to come over, that for one second Americans would have backed this attempt to keep Elian here? Do you not think that the major sentiment would be one of "Oh, his poor mother, he needs his mother"?? That kid would have been sent back to Cuba sopping wet.

Ugh. I can't think about this anymore. Sick of it!

-erin

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I, too, am glad the government finally acted and reunited Elian with his father. For a long time, I tried to ignore the issue as I try to do with any other over-hyped media circus. But the more I thought about the deeper meanings involved, I had to take a side.

It would be the worst kind of precedent for the United States government to deny a parent custody because of his or her political beliefs. I'm stunned by all the Republicans are trying to keep Elian here because of "freedom"! The real freedom, which we should protect, is the freedom of a parent to raise their children with whatever political beliefs they choose.

A secondary point is that if we had allowed the Miami relatives to keep Elian, it would have significantly weakened the case of American parents trying to get back their children who have been kidnapped abroad.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

We celebrated Easter on Saturday. It was unfortunate for me because I had to listen to the endless blabbing of my very republican, conservative in-laws. It was all, "that damn lesbian, Janet Reno, she is you know!", it was all "the damn government" and "an outrage!" yadda. yadda. yadda. ya. I went to bed with a migraine.

Bullshit. If that was MY CHILD. If that was MY CHILD, I wouldn't care what had to be done to bring him back to me. If it was an "outrage" and "excessive" that the government had to go in with guns and use force, well the main people who should have been concerned about that eventually happening was Elian's family. They should have protected him from that outcome. I agree with whoever said it was basically a hostage situation. I also agree with whoever said that the government had no idea what to expect, everyone should fear a mob.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I am with the general concensus also. If the father wants the child back in Cuba, so be it. He is the FATHER. If he chooses to raise his children in *those* conditions (according to our definition), then so be it. Aye yi yi, I'll be glad when this is over. I agree with what everyone is saying about the Miami relatives. Also, the cousin, Marywhatshername, was quoted saying to an undercover FBI agent that there was more than just cameras in the house. That is why they had to go in armed. They called it a "veiled threat".

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

What bothers me most about this whole thing, is that for the first time, all of America, and not just special interests groups, are focused on the relationship between Cuba and America. Why not use the momentum to get the stupid, stupid sanctions lifted, so that no more children end up like this one did; adrift on the open sea in a life raft.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

Cuba and North Korea are heinous, evil places. We are terribly wrong to send a little kid back there. It's no different than if his Mom had been shot while crossing the Berlin wall.

This is very much an edge case and it doesn't fall within the intent of any existing law. Al Gore actually had the right answer, which was that Congress should pass a law for this case which grants the kid and his family asylum.

The whole armed raid thing was in the same class as the bombing of the aspirin factory or the raid on Waco, just an illegal stunt to take the headlines off bad news.

Constitutional authorities including liberals Larry Tribe and Alan Dershowitz and right wing wackos F. Lee Levin and Jim Howard all agree that the rights of the kid and his family are being completely disregarded and trampled.

At this point Elian should be placed in a neutral setting and both the Dad and the relatives should be allowed frequent supervised visits. Elian should have his own independent lawyer, and no Cuban diplomats should be allowed to associate with Elian.

http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/oped/25trib.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3905e80d7591.htm

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I so disagree.

How are the rights of the family being disregarded and trampled? Since when does an uncle or cousin have rights to a child(when no custody has been awarded the uncle or cousin)who has living parents? If my uncle or cousin were holding my child, who I had custody of, against my will, they could be charged with kidnapping. What about the rights of the father? Why would anyone think the father and the relatives should have equal rights to the child? I don't understand.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

Honestly, I'm glad that Elian is back with his father.

The entire story, is a custody case that has been made more complicated by the fact that it crossed international boundaries and got embroiled in politics.

I wish it hadn't come down to guns and force, but I think it's best for the kid that the issue has been resolved, and he has been returned to his father.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I think the govt did the right thing, though I wish they had started acting sooner and had exhausted more possibilities. I think the family is batshit crazy and had no intention of ever releasing the child to his father. I'm sorry they acted with force but I believe the family drove them to it.

In my opinion the family had NO rights. The child belongs to his father and his father is the ONLY one to decide where he lives.

And I had also assumed they were the wife's relatives and that they wanted to get the boy away from the father because of that, in addition to the Cuba stuff.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

My reaction is mixed.

I believe the raid was necessary. The relatives wouldn't give Elian up and weren't responsive to negotiation efforts. Maybe the guns were a little large, yes, but I think the government did what it had to.

That said, I still think Elian's best interests would be served in the United States. Shortly after this began, I had lunch with a friend of a friend who'd just returned from visiting family in Cuba. I heard about the situations people live in there. Granted, the education may be good, but what will the children do with it? There is no opportunity for them. The citizens use the American dollar as a lifeline - without it, they are in dire circumstances. The people are resourceful - I heard stories about making old 1950's and later motorcycles & cars run on things like rubbing alcohol and something else bizarre I can't remember. But the quality of life, civil rights of the citizens, and

I wish his Miami relatives were different.

For the life of me I can't understand why Juan Miguel is devoted to dying communist form of government. Elian has infinitely more opportunities here than in Cuba. I agree that a child should have the right to claim asylum. (I am a bit fanatical about childrens rights, granted.

Remember the bible story (and I'm embarrassed to say I don't remember the names of those involved) where the two mothers are fighting over the child. The King tells them he'll settle to problem by cutting the child in half, giving each a half. The real mother - who has the best interest of the child in mind - says no, voluntarily letting the other woman have her child.

The histrionics of the Miami family and the communist rhetoric of Juan Miguel make the situation for Elian even worse than it already is. Someone needs to truly put him first - I'm not seeing that in anyone's actions.

A political friend also told me, and I don't know if this is true, that if we didn't send Elian back, Castro would open the prisons in Cuba again and send all the prisoners to the U.S. on boats - like in the early 80's.

Also, Miami comparing Elian to Jesus is ridiculous! They just make their cause look that much more un-credible by doing things like that.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I'm just reading other answers -

re: Elian's father choosing for him to live in *those* conditions...

Just because he is the father doesn't mean he has empirical authority over the child. I'm sorry, it doesn't. That would mean he'd be equally justified in beating and killing Elian, just because he's the father.

I like the idea about an independent attorney - A LOT!

I like the idea someone referred to about Al Gore's law.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I'm glad Reno had the guts to do it, and I'm glad that the vast majority of the American public agrees with her. A political system is NOT the same as physically abusing a child, and if it were, during the Cold War, we would have seperated any children visiting from Russia from their parents. I lost patience with the Miami family after they released that film, that looked all the world like a POW film from Vietnam, obviously coached.--Al of NOVA NOTES.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I remained Elian-Free until this weekend, when I had to breathe a sigh of relief that they went in and got him. He belongs with his father, etc etc what everyone has said.

HOWEVER---wasn't there an option that didn't involve semi-automatic weapons and combat gear? I understand that hindsight is 20/20, but couldn't they have gone in as regular police/federal officers? A show of force was necessary, but I'm really concerned that this was tremendous overkill.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I don't actually care much about the Elian Gonzales case. But I am amazed that Janet Reno had the courage to once again send armed men in to protect a captive child (as the AG sees it). If anything had happened to Elian, in light of the Waco incident, it would likely have been the end of Reno's career. I am impressed with the courage she demonstrated by making such a risky decision. That doesn't mean I am a fan, yet, but it certainly showed some acceptance of accountability.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

>>Just because he is the father doesn't mean he has empirical authority over the child. I'm sorry, it doesn't. That would mean he'd be equally justified in beating and killing Elian, just because he's the father.<<

There are two issues in this post that got rolled into one. First, Juan Miguel *does* have "empirical" right to Elian *because* he's the child's father. Since when does a six year old child have the right or authority to make decisions about his/her own well-being in the US? At last check, minors have to get parental permission for most things in this country. Why? Because we, as a country, believe that children aren't capable of making certain kinds of decisions for themselves. If kids were, most six year olds would choose to stay home and watch cartoons rather than go to school.

Second, with regard to Juan Miguel being "justified to beat and kill Elian", this is taking the idea of "rights" and "justice" a little far. No one has the right to commit illegal acts in this country. Your rights typically end there. But that isn't the issue. Juan Miguel obviously loves this child. It is his right as the primary relative to retain custody of this child and return to Cuba with him if he so chooses.

Finally, with regard to Cuba and the evils of the Castro regime: in my lifetime, I have seen the fall of Soviet Communism, the destruction of the Berlin Wall, not only the release of Nelson Mandela from an apartheid era prison but also the election to Presidency. Castro must be in his late 70s by now. How long can the man live? Things are going to change radically in Cuba when Castro dies. Yes, this situation right now sucks, but it ain't gonna last forever. Can we not look at this with a certain amount of global perspective?

And lastly, if anyone is soooo concerned about how terribly people are being treated in Communist and Third World countries, I suggest trying to make changes and having input on the kids who are truly suffering who have NO ONE to look out for them. Want to have your heart broken? Look at how many kids are in orphanages (or worse) in Bosnia; how many kids are suffering in Serbia and the Chechen conflicts? How many of them have homes or relatives who care about them at all? This whole Elian thing has gone from ridiculous to sublime...let the kid go home and be done with it already!

Just my 2 cents....

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I keep hearing the Republicans praising Elian's mother for being so brave and for sacrificing her life to bring her son to safety.

Am I the only person who thinks that she was wrong (as in VERY wrong, irresponsibly, unforgivably wrong) to risk her child's life like that?

How would we react if SHE'D been the one to live and Elian had drowned? Would she still be a hero for trying to bring her child to a "better place"?

Send him home. Give him back to the parent who DIDN'T choose to toss him into a leaky boat and gamble with his life. Is Cuba so bad that any responsible parent would play a stupid game like that with their child? Elian already has to grow up without a mother now. Too bad he'll never get to ask her why she had so little regard for his personal safety...

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I agree with Gena's points about the father's rights. In this country parents have rights that supercede the wishes of grandparents, for example, and non biological parents (like gay couple cases). While I disagree in the case of gay couples, I think this is best. I heard about a case where a couple were going to be missionaries and move to some third world country with their children, and the grandparents tried to stop this. The judge threw it out of court. (wish I had a cite for this but I don't.)

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

Excuse me? Jim Howard, are you for real? Let's say you were overseas in a country with different politics than yours. Suppose you had your children with you. Your wife stayed home, and even though the rest of the world was appalled with your country, you call it home. Imagine that, for some unforseen reason, you die. (I know there is not the added drama of an escape attempt. It really doesn't affect the reality of the situation) Of course your child is immediatly sent home to the remaining parent. Or is he? How dare ANY of us presume to keep this child from a parent that by all indications is a loving, caring individual. A man that has NEVER been accused of any type of wrongdoing to his son, other than dissaproval of his country of origion. He is a child, and a child belong first and foremost with his parent. It is not our right to sever that bond, simply because we don't agree with his father's beliefs. If we could, how many children in our country could be legally taken from their Mormon, Christian Scientist, Jehovah's witness. etc., right down to Christian, parents, because He Who Is In Charge does not agree. It's a frightening thought, but I pray that the precedent is not set. Once it is, God help us.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

Well thank goodness everyone here has some brains! I'm so sick and tired of reading and hearing about people criticizing the government for so obviously doing the right thing. And as far as the guns go...OF COURSE they had to have guns! They had no idea what those looney relatives had planned for them!!

Elian's reaction is mostly based on the reaction of the adults around him. His relatives were all going crazy -- screaming, crying, etc...obviously he's going to react the same way. If someone ever, EVER had my son and wouldn't give him back to me I would KILL them.

Finally the government shows some balls!

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

My thoughts:

* Send him back with his dad. He's six, he can't decide on his own, dad didn't get any say in whether or not he'd ok Elian's mom taking him away...this is all fairly ridiculous. We may not agree with it or like it, but dad wants to live in Cuba, son is six, dad's in charge. End of story.

* The Miami relatives are crazy frightening nuts. I was so sick of the crap they were pulling. I'm sick of hearing Marisleysis referred to as his mother, she sounds like a basket case with all the fits or whatever she has, and the crying accusations were such shit. I'm so happy they can't get in to see him.

* The picture: To me, it seems like the gun shot was the posed one. Talk about the perfect propaganda shot...and why on earth was the fisherman sleeping in their house? Marisleysis and co. claiming the pictures of him with dad are fake is such crap! Like we all haven't seen Elian 1000 times already to be able to tell for ourselves :P

* And Janet: Good work! What BS they led her through. You could just tell that she was dreading having to make THAT decision (raid and guns) and take crap for Waco again, but the bastards just wouldn't let her settle it peacefully and nontraumatically, just so they can make more of a stink. Bleeeeeech.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I just have endless pity for the kid. This whole ugly business is going to cause a gigantic therapy bill for him one of these days

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

This isn't much of a debate, huh? It seems that the only people in America who want to keep Elian here are a handful of Miamians and every Republican in the Senate.

And no, I wasn't surprised to learn that the Miami relatives are on the father's side. I had always assumed that this was the case because, you know, their last name IS Gonzalez. I realize that this is a common name, so I guess it's possible that it could have been the mother's maiden name, too, but wouldn't you be too creeped out to marry someone who had the same last name as you?

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Well, as somebody not based in the USA, I can report that the rest of the world has been watching this unfold and saying 'what the fuck is going on with these people?' The boy should be with his father, and the relatives in Miami should just head off to the next filming of a Jerry Springer episode, where they so clearly belong.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

I'm sick of hearing the whole damn Elian saga everynight when I watch the news. I don't care whether they send him back to Cuba or keep him here--somebody make a decision and stick to it please.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Grace, I just read this from one of your earlier posts: 'That said, I still think Elian's best interests would be served in the United States.'

As a non-American, could I please ask why? That's not paradise on earth over there, you know. Do you think Cuba has absolutely nothing to offer its people, whereas America is the land of milk and honey? Because from where I'm sitting, America looks like the most fucked up land on earth, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one of this opinion.

I'm all behind whoever said we should look at Cuba with a more global perspective. Things could be worse there, things will eventually get better there, and I'm sure life isn't entirely dreadful there for everybody, all of the time.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

This site is so wrong...funny but wrong.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Well, Jackie, if you spread the word, you may solve our illegal immigration problems.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Cory, your wish is my command ... I'm getting 'America - it's not Paradise' flyers printed, and I'll hand them out on the streets this evening!!

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

I am a little fuzzy on how Reno got authorization to search and seize. Larry Tribe made the point in an op-ed piece in yesterday's NY Times that a "search warrant" isn't exactly the operative document for going into a house and seizing a person. Tribe also asserted that Elian is not an illegal alien.

That confused me, because my understanding is that Elian is in the U.S. an an undocumented alien, under the jurisdiction of the INS. Under those circs., I thought INS could authorize law enforcement to search for and take custody of the boy. As for the 11th Circuit order prohibiting his removal from the country, the raid doesn't seem to violate the letter of the law.

Does anybody know the details on this? I was busy looking for the real killer of Nicole Simpson when the whole Elian mess started up, then I got distracted by the Jon Benet Ramsey television event (BTW, I have a few t-shirts left over from the block party -$19.95). So I do not recall hearing whether the INS had jurisdiction over him . . .

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Anyone seen Buena Vista Social Club?? 'Cuz I don't know a whole hell of a lot about Cuba, but the Cuba in that documentary seemed like a pretty comfortable (if very poor) place.

I lived in Russia for 5 months. That country is steeped in poverty. The cheese and milk are radioactive, the health services are to be avoided, and the government is corrupt beyond belief. I could go on! But we're not trying to rescue Russian children from their "terrible fates."

Why are these Americans trying to rescue a Cuban child? (Not even Cuban children, just one.) What is the difference?? Cuba is still communist. I guess that's it. Disgusting.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Before any naysayers speak up, I will add that some people are "rescuing" Russian children: American adopters. The kids lose their culture and their language as a sacrifice for a better life. I'm not being sarcastic. It is a better (well, a more healthy and comfortable, anyway) life. It's just sad that the sacrifice is necessary.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

"Is Cuba so bad that any responsible parent would play a stupid game like that with their child? "

Yes, it is that bad, and literally millions of parents have taken huge risks to get their kids out of communist countries.

I was in Berlin one day when a family drove a propane truck through a checkpoint. They gambled their lives that the guards would not shoot at the truck fearing an explosion. Another family made a hot air ballon out of rain coats to escape.

Do you folks understand that the slightest criticism of the Cuban government is a CRIME in Cuba? Do you understand that every Cuban family is supervised by a "Block Captain" whose job it is to ensure that the party line is towed one hundred percent? Do you understand that if the kid were to write a paper in school that in any way questioned the Cuban government that he would quickly wind up in a mental hospital or jail? That the sole road to any sort of life above miminal subsistance is to please goverment officals? That anyone who put up a web page like this one faces a very real risk of a firing squad?

No, of course you don't.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Ok guys, from my point of view this is total manipulation. It's a political vendetta that these people have against Cuba and Castro particularily. I'm sick to death of this whole fuckin' thing. It's a custody dispute, if I'm not wrong, plain and simple. I think that the gov't was totally justified in bum rushing the house. The whole thing was a joke to begin with, so why not end it with the most dramatic possible option. I mean, for Christ sake, the fathers family was borderline on kidnapping there towards the end...

I really fucking hope Elian's father takes him and say's "fuck off america, land of opportunists and manipulators" and goes back to Cuba after knocking the dust of this pathetic country off his boots...

Sometimes I want to pluck out my eyeballs, I'm so saddened by this countrys/ the medias actions...

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

An article about Elian from my newspaper today:

The photo war

There's also a piece by Carl Hiaasen, reprinted from the New York Times, but it looks as if the Guardian doesn't have web rights for it.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Jim, I'm curious where you get your information about Cuba. It sure sounds suspect to me...

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Yeah, Jim, where DO you get all your information? Are you from Cuba? Because I have a whole bunch of friends who are, and they've all agreed, while it isn't Paradise, it isn't that bad. It isn't heaven, but it isn't hell on earth either. In any case, nobody, NOBODY has the right to tell a father he can't raise his child in his own home country. Otherwise, gee, we'd better start airlifting the kiddies out of Cuba and every other country whose political system we don't agree with. Hell with the parents, we can't let the kids grow up to be Commies!

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Speaking as a student of history, not even the USSR, East Berlin, and other Soviet Bloc nations at their peak were ever close to what Jim Howard described as reality in Cuba.

Communism is interesting in that it sounds ominous and it largely it means that not much works quickly or accurately, but unless you're an activist against the system and in some manner vocal about it, you don't have a whole hell of a lot to worry about in terms of being pulled from your home in the middle of the night and sent to a gulag.

Now, what Jim described certainly was reality - and far worse - in nations where extreme Right Wing dictatorships occurred - which is to say Latin and Central America, especially El Salvador, Guatemala, Chile and Argentina. (For first hand documentation, please see _Lives On the Line: The Testimony of Contemporary Latin American Authors_)

But locking children away in insane asylums for writing papers criticizing the government? Give me a brick of salt to wash that one down with.

Sources, por favor.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

I agree with Rob way up there, that the mother's actions in trying to get to the US on a boat weren't especially responsible.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

"I'm curious where you get your information about Cuba. It sure sounds suspect to me..." "Sources please"

My main source is discussions with people who have lived in Cuba, and my own experience traveling in the occupied sections of East Germany.

I'll provide ya'll with a bunch of links this evening to help you undrestand the system we are sending this little boy back to.

Untill then you can start here:

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/countries/indx225.htm

or just go to www.amnesty.org and enter "cuba" into their search engine.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

In the interests of balance, I should point out that Amnesty International also reports on human rights abuses in the US:

Amnesty link got lost.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

My assumption is, Elian (when he is old enough) will dismiss the risk to his own life, and consider his mother's actions heroic. And that's the only viewpoint that counts.

OTOH, at worst, if he becomes an entrenched party member, he will probably still not criticize his mother, (except perhaps for leaving him alive with those crazy relatives)

With any luck, Castro will drop dead in the next 10 years, and the people close to him that have been hating him for years, for making them listen to his tiresome 4-5 hours speeches, will be at least more moderate, if not significantly better replacements for all concerned.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Molly Ivins, an excellent columnist in Texas has some interesting information in her column for April 24, 2000. You can read it at

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Jackie -

I just saw your post today. I was kinda afraid to look back at what other's said after awhile.

Let me clarify -

I don't think America is perfect - far from it. We tend, if anything, to but our noses into too many other's business, are seriously imperialistic, and don't care enough for our own problems before we try to take care of others. We should lift the sanctions against Cuba, we should allow free travel, and a billion other things that we don't because we'd have to admit Castro, well, won this battle of wills. We bully others in the United Nations with our veto power in the Security Council - Butros Butros Gali & Israel/Palestine for example.

The comments I made were based on the information I had from meeting someone who'd visited Cuba while this whole thing was happening & who also has family there. She isn't a member of the Cuban-American exile community in Miami. I think Elian's mother, like so many others who immigrate to the US and other countries, was searching for what she perceived to be a better situation for her son and herself. What she had in Cuba wasn't making her (or a lot of other people) happy. If she'd chosen Egypt or Italy or Canada or Argentina or any other country, she'd be equally justified in her decision.

I think it is unfair to label her unfit as a mother because she'd put a child in a boat to make a journey like that. Yes - it wasn't the best situation, but what choice did she have given her circumstances? Millions of others have done the exact same thing. No one labeled them unfit - quite the contrary - they were heralded as great, brave souls who dared to dream.

My abuse analogy comes from my own background. I don't think it is fair/right to make blanket statements about parenthood - there are always exceptions, which I think the Elian case is. There is no simple answer. Not everyone is going to be happy and in the end, the only person that loses, no matter what, is Elian - and that's sad, very sad.

So - America IS NOT the best place in the whole wide world. It isn't even necessarily better than Cuba. However, in *Elian's mother's mind,* while she was a parent, the US, for either its geographical closeness to Cuba (accessability), or ideals she thought it held for her & her son, was where she chose to bring Elian. Based on the information I have - and NOT saying the US is the best country in the world, just that this is where Elian happens to be - I made assertion.

Hope this explains... I didn't mean offend people. :-(

-- Anonymous, April 27, 2000

Well, I was going to write a mini term paper on Cuba, but it's late and I'm tired, so I'll just throw out a few random tidbits for your consideration.

1) The goverment did NOT have the authority to kidnap Elian:

http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/oped/25trib.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3905e80d7591.htm (see also interview on foxnews.com)

When Tribe, Dershowitz, and Clayman all agree on a legal point I consider it to be settled.

2) According to Amnesty International the following laws are on the books in Cuba:

"Dissidents who are brought to trial are often convicted of offences such as propaganda enemiga, enemy propaganda, desacato, disrespect, or dessrdenes pzblicos, public disorder."

"New legislation effective since March 1999, known as the Law for the Protection of the National Independence and Economy of Cuba. It provides a penalty of up to 20 years' imprisonment for a series of offences, including providing information to the US government; owning, distributing or reproducing material produced by the US government or any other foreign entity; and collaborating by any means, with foreign radio, television, press or other foreign media, with the purpose of destabilizing the country and destroying the socialist state. "

"[Disidents are often restricted by] ...Article 34 of the Penal Code - this measure can be imposed for up to three years, during which time the person concerned may not move house without permission, is not permitted to receive promotion or a salary increase in their place of work, must appear before the court to explain their conduct if summoned to do so and must maintain an honest attitude towards work, in strict accordance with the law and with respect for the norms of socialist life.

"Amnesty International has learned that on 4 September 1997, at a municipal court in Havana, prisoner of conscience Hictor Palacio Ruiz was sentenced to 18 months' imprisonment for "desacato,"disrespect (article 144 of the Penal Code) towards President Fidel Castro."

For general observations about life in Cuba and the role of the block captain see:

http://www.the-planet.co.uk/et? ac=002230325239689&rtmo=02G2KNJq&atmo=hB3NN3Ue&pg=/planet/96/10/26/etp jor26.html

-- Anonymous, April 27, 2000

Gabriel Garcia Marquez wrote an article about the Elian situation:

http://www.lbbs.org/marquez.htm

-- Anonymous, April 27, 2000

Okay, I am officially mad at Larry Tribe. I do not find support for his op-ed piece. He makes a big deal about asking why the INS went into the Gonzalez home with just a search warrant, and suggesting that they needed a judicial arrest warrant. Tribe also suggests that an INS administrative arrest warrant was invalid in this circumstance, because Elian isn't an illegal immigrant. Eleven minutes on Westlaw was enough to make me take the opposite view. As far as I can see, Elian's arrest and release to his father was done in accordance with INS regulations and the Fourth Amendment.

BTW Jim, don't think that when Tribe and Dershowitz agree, it settles anything. They will, like all lawyers, agree when the same principles support the views held by the parties paying their fees. Nothing wrong with that -- it's what I do for a living, and it's your constitutional right to hire me to find legal support for your views. But one can't read those op-ed pieces as impartial legal analysis, unless Tribe or Dershowitz says "No one is paying me to reach this conclusion."

No one paid me to reach my conclusion. Here's what the law says: The INS has the power of arrest and detention of non-resident aliens, on a warrant issued by its own officers. 8 CFR Sec. 236.1; cf. _id._ Secs. 287.5(e)(2) and (e)(3). If the alien is a minor, the regulations provide that after arrest he or she is not to be detained, but is to be released to a parent, if one is available. _Id._ sec. 236.3(b)(1)(i). INS powers of arrest on U.S. soil are, of course, subject to Fourth Amendment protections, and INS therefore has to get a search warrant to enter a house to seize and alien, but that is really all they have to do. _See_ _Carnejo Molina v. Immigration and Naturalization Service_, 649 F.2d 1145 (5th Cir. 1981). (I think that this 5th Circuit precedent is binding on the 11th Circuit because it predates the split of the 5th into the 5th and 11th circuit, but I really didn't check. I'm sure someone will let me know).

I therefore conclude that, in Florida, there is nothing to prevent INS from arresting a minor alien named Elian Gonzalez and removing him from his uncle's home, so long as they comply with their internal procedures in determining to arrest him and have a search warrant for their entry into the uncle's home, and so long as they promptly release him into the custody of a parent. Tribe's comment that Elian isn't an "illegal alien" is a canard, because while technically true, it does not, as Tribe suggests, mean that INS can't arrest him on its own warrant. INS administrative arrest powers extend to all "non-resident aliens," (people not holding green cards) and certainly to a little boy who literally washed up on our shores.

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2000

Based on what happened today, apparently in Florida there is also nothing to prevent the mayor from firing his City Manager (and indirectly, at least, forcing his police chief to resign) to protect his own ass.

Oh well, at least this makes Washington D.C. politics look civilized by comparison.

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2000

Here's a random tidbit for Jim Howard, quoting directly from the US Code Of Federal Regulations regarding the 37 year old economic sanctions the USA has against Cuba:

"Criminal penalties for violating the sanctions range up to 10 years in prison, $1,000,000 in corporate fines, and $250,000 in individual fines. Civil penalties up to $55,000 per violation may also be imposed."

Doesn't make the Cuban law he quoted seem so harsh now, does it?

The school where I work in Toronto recently participated in a cause called Sister Schools, in which we donated 30+ old computers, printers, modems and other network accessories to a town in Cuba. A dozen students (from some affluent families here, it being that type of school) plus some staff members went to Cuba for a week to set up a computer lab for the school there.

They reported on their return that they had never felt such a sense of community and overall joy of life prior to that which they encountered in Cuba. The people there may not have a lot of possessions or even things that we take for granted (constant running water for example,) but they more than make up for it with their kindness and respect for their fellow citizens.

It was overall quite a humbling experience for these well-off boys and has certainly opened their eyes to how the 'other side' lives life.

37 years of economic sanctions - I'd wager that's done more harm to the Cubans than Castros regime ever did. I think the US has proven their point, so enough already. Stop being the schoolyard bully for once.

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2000

There is an argument that the US economic blockade is the only reason why the Cuban people accept the repressive system under which they live -- the people, according to this theory, have a siege mentality whereby they accept the government doctrine that any criticsm is treason. If there were no longer any external threat to Cuba's sovereignty and socialist system, this mentality would disappear and people would no longer tolerate either poor living standards or political control.

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2000

David that seems very logical.

Interfere in a another family's fight where they seem like bitter enemies, and they turn on you, suddenly forgetting the problems they had with each other.

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2000

Gabby -

Thanks for that Marquez link! It was great!

Allison

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2000

Here are a few questions I have on this topic:

Does the Elian matter remind anyone else of the St. Louis?

Is the United States the only country with a trade embargo against Cuba? Is Cuba free to trade with its Central/South American neighbors and the rest of the world? If so, why is the United States to blame for the impoverished conditions in Cuba?

Isn't Cuba's freedom from American corporate globalism, capitalist greed, and America's shallow and materialistic and environmentally destructive consumer culture actually a good thing?

If, ceteris paribus, Cuba were a fascist dictatorship rather than a socialist one, would those of you making apologies for the Castro regime (and in some cases even singing its praises) still support the regime, or the return of Elian?

Who in fact owns Elian?

If Elian were the child of a (pre-Civil War) slave woman who died upon reaching Canada on the Underground Railroad, would you want Canadian authorities to reunite the family by returning him to his (still-enslaved) father?

One for the apologists: In what ways, specifically, is Cuba just as good or even better than the United States?

How do the fines mentioned compare to the average annual income of the respective country?

On the "IMF, World Bank: Fight the Power?" topic here, much was made of the media's active/complicit role in creating a negative image of the Seattle and Washington protestors against globalism - what role, if any, would you say the media had in creating your own pro-repatriation views in the Elian matter? In your perception of the mental state of the Miami relatives? In your interpretation of the appropriateness of the raid?

One more for the apologists: Would you prefer to live in Miami or Havana?

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2000

To take on just the last point for now, I'd rather live with my father and my immediate family (or at least I'm confident that's the decision I would have made as a child).

If that were in Havana, I'd choose Havana over Miami without a second thought.

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2000

Exactly right, Mike.

If my only parent was in Cuba and I was six years old, you BET that's where I'd want to be.

--Al of NOVA NOTES

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2000

This is very much an edge case and it doesn't fall within the intent of any existing law. Al Gore actually had the right answer, which was that Congress should pass a law for this case which grants the kid and his family asylum.

So when Cuba holds you against your will, it's oppression, when Juan González is forced to choose between his leaving his son held hostage in the US, and abandoning his mother (fuck her; she's old!), he's being granted asylum, and when Haitians make it to American shores and ask for asylum, and get kicked out, it's not passive racism? Otherwise, would someone please explain why we agonize over rewriting the law for the plump Cuban boy, but not to give a chance to the people who are risking their lives to live here.

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2000

Can someone explain why it is passive racism to send Hatian refugees back to Haiti but not the least bit racist to send a Cuban refugee back to Cuba? Or Chinese stowaways back to China?

Is it a more active form racism to demand that Elian (a Latino) be sent back when Walter Polovchak (a Ukrainian, ie:white) was granted asylum - and that against the stated wishes of both of his parents?

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000

Walter's court battle went on through his 18th birthday. He had every right to stay at that point.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000

Can someone explain why it is passive racism to send Hatian refugees back to Haiti but not the least bit racist to send a Cuban refugee back to Cuba?

That's just it. Al Gore and George W Bush are advocating to keep the plump little Cuban kid in America, but they have another standard for the Haitians. That's how racism works.

Is it a more active form racism to demand that Elian (a Latino) be sent back when Walter Polovchak (a Ukrainian, ie:white) was granted asylum - and that against the stated wishes of both of his parents?

One of the delineations between childhood and adulthood is that in adulthood, it's understood that lesser sacrifices are made in order to accomplish a larger ambition, which 12 year old Walter Polovchak demonstrated when he ran away, and asked for political asylum. In Elián González's case, his every childish appetite was fed in order to pursuade him to choose to stay, and they were still able to photograph him smiling while being held by his Communist father. The two situations aren't similar enough for me to question fairness.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000

There is a similarity between the González custody case and slavery. Slavery also separated children from their parents.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000

In the hypothetical slave comparison, would the father have gone through official channels to request the child's return? Would grandparents have been able to travel TO the child to ask for the return? Would the father, and his family be able to travel to the safe zone where the child was, unaccompanied by any keeper in order appeal through the court system for his return? Would the court system have even acknowledged the parent's authority over the future of that child?

Those are some of the differences that make it non-comparable. It wouldn't be the child's family asking for his return (I would think in such a situation the parent would not want the child to return, knowing harsh punishment would ensue) - it would be the slave's owner.



-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000

I spent Easter with quite a few Cuban relatives here in Tampa, most in their 50's and 60's and quite lucid in their memories of Cuba before Castro's regime and their flight from Cuba to America.

Take a look back at some of the Hollywood movies from the 40's made down in Cuba. 'Notorious' springs to mind. Cuba was America's resort community. Of my relatives at Easter Sunday, most were split 50/50: Half would love to go back to Cuba and rebuild it to the 'way it was' before Castro's regime once he's gone. The other half says 'let it rot'. Most are tired of Cuban Americans wanting everybody else to fight their war for them and QUITE tired of Cuban Americans trying to re-make Cuba in Miami, America be damned.

Maybe it's the Aquarian in me, but if I were in Cuba, I'd be writing my 'exported' families in Little Havana to stop creating press nightmares in America, get on a boat with some money and some guns, and get your asses back to Cuba and help me take our great land back from Castro and his regime.

(And believe me I know how ridiculous that sounds, but, hey, I believe in fighting your own battles, especially if it's something you believe in.)

On another note, this is the most intelligent discussion I've read of this debate. I'm very impressed not only by the frank discussion on this topic, but on the obvious research that's taking place in the commentary.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000

I'd like to second that last comment, Jim. I've enjoyed reading this discussion, and I would especially like to thank the other Jim and Duranki for chiming in and expressing some alternate views. It was getting a little dull with all that consensus and agreement! And we always appreciate David's perspective, letting us know how we look to the rest of the world.

As you were.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000

Oh... on your original question, Beth - I had been aware it was his relatives, not hers (although for awhile there I was trying to piece out if any of her relatives were involved. I don't know if she even has family in Miami). What was most surprising to me was learning that Elian was not a 'child of divorce', but rather conceived post- divorce because the couple, while no longer married, wished to concieve and raise a child together.

From birth, Elian was spending time with them both on a regular basis.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000

Jim Howard, Tom Dean, et al (re the right to go in and get Elian):

Lawrence Tribe's point was totally mangled in that op-ed piece in the New York Times, according to him. (I emailed him disagreeing with the piece, and he emailed back with an explanation). His point was not that the warrant didn't specify that it was to seize Elian, it was that it was an illegal warrant -- the Executive branch asked for an ex parte warrant based on one of their own orders (an INS order), which Tribe argues is a major loss of Constitutional oversight. I wrote back to him that I still disagreed -- Congress has specifically given the INS and the DOJ extremely broad powers and discretion to enforce their own orders (8 USC 1252), and the U.S. Supreme Court, in Reno v. Flores, has both upheld those powers and discretion AND has done so specifically in the case of custodial enforcement of an immigrant minor.

Tribe emailed back that I have an "awfully forceful argument," specifically for a non-lawyer (I'm a doctor), and that if he had more time, he'd continue the conversation. Bummer.

Nonetheless, I agree with 90% of the responses here -- this is an atrocity that Elian is still here, and if any of the naysayers' spouses abducted their children to other countries and died in the process, they'd *demand* that the U.S. military forces in those countries go and retrieve them.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000

Jason, I am glad to hear Tribe's point in un-mangled form, but still am not sure I get it. He objected to the search warrant because it issued ex parte? Does he think the Gonzales family should have been notified that a search warrant was coming? That's certainly not standard procedure -- most search warrants are issued without notice to the searchee, the theory being that fewer people will take the things they are hiding to another location if they are unaware that a search warrant is on its way.

Is Tribe objecting to the underlying power of INS to issue arrest warrants? I'm a little fuzzy on this, but aren't there all sorts of agencies that have the power to arrest without automatic judicial review? What's the perceived constitutional issue? Better send me Tribe's e-mail address.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000

To follow up on the Prof. Tribe issues, Anthony Lewis's op-ed piece in yesterday's NY Times is a well-researched and, I think, convincing rebuttal to Tribe.

I was interested by Duranki's questions, and want to take on three of them.

> "If, ceteris paribus, Cuba were a fascist dictatorship rather than a socialist one, would those of you making apologies for the Castro regime (and in some cases even singing its praises) still support the regime, or the return of Elian?"

> "If Elian were the child of a (pre-Civil War) slave woman who died upon reaching Canada on the Underground Railroad, would you want Canadian authorities to reunite the family by returning him to his (still-enslaved) father?"

In my view, repatriation of Elian is appropriate because U.S. law generally would deport him, even if his father were not in Cuba. He came into the country without making an application, which INS frowns on, and is not in danger of begin oppressed in his homeland when he goes back.

Because this is the basis of my opinion, I would not have a different view if Cuba were a fascist regime, so long as there was no evidence that Elian would be harmed on his return. Obviously, if Elian were Jewish and Cuba were a Nazi state, or if Elian were the child of a slave and would himself become chattel upon repatriation, then that would put him within exceptional circumstances and require INS to consider keeping him. If I was INS would I send Elian back to Franco or Pinochet? Yes. Back to extermination or slavery? No. I think that's easy. Why would I default to repatriation? Primarily because it is the default position of our law.

> "On the "IMF, World Bank: Fight the Power?" topic here, much was made of the media's active/complicit role in creating a negative image of the Seattle and Washington protestors against globalism - what role, if any, would you say the media had in creating your own pro-repatriation views in the Elian matter? In your perception of the mental state of the Miami relatives? In your interpretation of the appropriateness of the raid?"

I think the media did damage the reputation of Elian's aunt. I am always impressed how the world pigpiles on a woman who demonstrates her emotions. If the uncle had gotten on television and raged, we would have said, "What an angry guy." Because it was the unfortunate aunt, we instead say, "What a head case. Can't she be institutionalized?"

As to what impact the media had on the ultimate question of whether repatriation is warranted, that is muddier. I would never have heard of Elian Gonzales if it weren't for the media blitz. Even if the story had been reported, but without the banner headlines, I would probably have shrugged it off and mentally figured that Florida family court and INS would work it all out.

Certainly I would not have seen Elian's repatriation as an important question for us all to ponder if there had been no blitz. While we have agonized over Elian, no doubt hundreds of people have been deported back to the poverty they sought to escape by sneaking into our country, and likely many of them will live shortened lives because of malnutrition and poor health care. Thousands of people, I am told, are starving in Ethiopia again. Russia is still in shambles and India and Pakistan are feinting at nuclear war. The U.S. is entering into pacts that will leave our labor force unprotected in competition for (a) work, against foreign laborers for whom $10,000 per year is a fortune, and (b)housing, against local middle management for whom $10,000 per year is a decent bonus.

In short, I think our focus has been misdirected again, as it almost always is. Is that bad? I'm not sure. We seem to have reached a stage in U.S. politial life that resembles the late Roman Empire. We have shallow weak leaders, but the power structure is so entrenched that folks of average influence can't hope to have any impact on them or even to direct the pool from which they are selected. So why not entertain ourselves with bread and (media) circuses while the prosperity lasts?

-- Anonymous, April 30, 2000

Tom:

Tribe's position isn't that it was issued ex parte, and that's bad, it's that there should be more oversight to ex parte warrants than the Executive branch trying to enforce their own order. (His argument -- normally, ex parte warrants are issued so that the Executive branch can enforce orders of the judiciary or legislature, such as a judicial order for custody in the case of a divorce.)

I agree with your point, though -- there wasn't specific oversight here because Congress has explicitly granted the INS the ability to do things such as this without the need for anything else than their own orders. (Hell, the INS doesn't even need *any* warrant to open up a cargo container within 80 miles of the border, for example.) And the Judicial branch, including the Supreme Court, has been very, very loathe to question this, and has almost always ceded to the INS and the DOJ this very power.

Tribe very specifically ended his email dialogue with me by saying that he doesn't have time to continue this, so I'm somewhat hesitant to spread his email address around; rest assured, though, that I didn't know it before seeking it out to email him about this, so you should be able to find it easily. :)

-- Anonymous, April 30, 2000

I know that most of what is happening Elian dosen't understand, and he must be terrified when that man had that tear gas gun up to him. That made me so mad...why did they have to take Elian away like that? The only reason that I heard of is because of the people. Well fuck those who think he shouldn't see his father because that's all he has right now and there is no logical reason why he couldn't. I am glad that he saw his father and brother, and that 4 of his little friends from Cuba are allowed to come to the US. :) happy 4 him.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2000