I'm a big believer in vinegar. Among many things I use it for is as a substitute for Round-Up, spraying weeds that sprout up in our driveway or sidewalk. I had never tried it on a large scale, though, and was not sure if it would kill everything around it in addition to the weed sprayed. Since I have had a micro-farm on only 2.5 acres, I had not used it to spray weeds in the pasture, and had used a shovel or spade to remove the occasional Canadian thistle.

Things have changed. We recently bought 30 acres of undeveloped farmland which has a terrible Canadian thistle infestation, far too much to handle with a spade. This infestation would only get worse between now and next year when we hope to get a tractor with brush hog. My concern was that the Canadian thistle would take over the pasture (as yet unfenced and therefore with no livestock). SO, we took a half gallon of Round-Up (yes, I know, that is heretical, but if that was what worked, I was willing to forego an organic remedy due to the severity of our infestation, in order to avoid having a worse problem next year) and a gallon of vinegar out to the farm and started spraying. First, we sprayed the Round-Up. When we ran out of that, we switched to vinegar. We were working in swaths across the pasture, so we knew which areas had been sprayed with what. Three days later, we went out there again, and the weeds sprayed with Round-Up were just beginning to look a tiny bit yellow. The ones sprayed with vinegar were mostly BLACK and starting to rot. WOW! And the grass around the weeds was alive and looking good, so my concerns about the acid in the vinegar killing the surrounding growth were eased considerably.

We ran to town and bought several gallons of vinegar. We started spraying. Before we left for the day, the ones sprayed earlier in the day were starting to die! I went out and bought two cases of vinegar and am awaiting a sunny day to go out on a search and destroy mission. Our application technique involves kicking the weed with a boot before spraying so that we know which weeds have been hit -- this MAY help to speed absorbtion, we think. We spray straight distilled white vinegar -- nothing special.

The advantages of vinegar are obvious: we don't have to wear protective gear to spray vinegar -- after all, we're just spraying half of a salad dressing!!! It is MUCH cheaper than Round-Up. It works better and faster than Round-Up. It is organic.

Thought y'all might be interested!

-- Gloria Morris (cybergams@my-deja.com), April 21, 2000

Answers

VERY interesting -- I'm going to give it a try! Thank you.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), April 21, 2000.

Great idea. Might see if there is a photographers' supply business near you. They use glacial aecetic acid to develop film and that's some serious vinegar. Compare prices, grocery store vinegar vs. thinned photographers' vinegar. Might be cheaper. Keep the thistles mowed so they can't seed yet don't disturb the roots, as they propogate readily from root pieces. My sheep love thistle flowers. Also knock down might be even faster and surer if you spray after the plants have been mowed. Alfalfa is about the only wanted plant that has any hope of out-competing thistles. As there will be lots and lots of seeds in your soil, planting some alfalfa might not be a bad idea. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), April 21, 2000.

I had heard that pouring vinegar into the cracks of cement will prevent weeds from growing back up once you have removed them. I tried it and it did work. Another thing that my mother used white vinegar for was toe fungus. You see all those ads on television for drugs that guarantee you pretty toes and then they tell in a quick whisper what all the side effects are. My mother had toe fungus and she went about soaking the affected toe nightly in vinegar (just used a cotton swab). Within a week the fungus started to clear up.

-- R. (thor610@yahoo.com), April 21, 2000.

What a good idea!!!!

Going out right now,, have lots of weeds to get rid of!! :O)

-- Bergere (autumnhaus@aol.com), April 21, 2000.

I had read in our little local newspaper that vinegar would kill wild onions, of which we have plenty. Hadn't tried it yet but as soon as the rain stops, think I will.

-- barbara (barbaraj@mis.net), April 21, 2000.

Thanks for the tip. As soon as the rain stops I'm going to hit the weeds!

-- Jennifer (KY) (acornfork@hotmail.com), April 21, 2000.

One question: will the vinegar kill below dirt level: i.e., are the roots damaged/destroyed? The root system of canadian thistle is persistant, to say the least - you may find those plants sending out volunteers around the spot of the original plant, from the root system. Let us know - I am curious. Thanks for the experiment and the results. Judi

-- Judi (ddecaro@snet.net), April 21, 2000.

I'll have to give it a try on my 40 acres of poison ivy heaven.

-- Rich (pntbeldyk@wirefire.com), April 22, 2000.

Vinegar has many uses as well as household bleach, the latter I have used to kill poison ivy & oak. I have not tried vinegar on plants, one should be able to buy it in 55 gallon drums or 5 gal. containers at a svaings, if I were to staart spraying my pastures, I would need a lot of it.

-- Hendo (OR) (redgate@echoweb.net), April 23, 2000.

Yesterday I took the last slosh in a bottle of vinegar outside and poured it on some thistles. Today the centers where I poured the vinegar are shriveled up dead. Even if the roots aren't killed, this is surely going to set the plants back big time. I'd rather apply vinegar a bunch of times than Round-Up once. I'm going to have to go buy some sort of sprayer and try some more thistles, I'm also going to try it on burdock. I was amazed at what that little bit of vinegar did. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), April 24, 2000.

Think it would work on plants that spread by runners and not seed? I'll try it anyway--already have the sprayer.

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@hotmai.com), April 24, 2000.

Well, tried the Vinegar. And all I can say is... WOW!!! it sure works well!!! :O)

-- Bergere (autumnhaus@aol.com), April 26, 2000.

Are you spraying pure vinegar or are you diluting it?

-- Cheryl Cox (cox33055@aol.com), April 26, 2000.

Cheryl, I am using the vinegar straight since what you buy at the store is already diluted. Right now, I'm interested in a sure kill, but it would be interesting to see just how much more you can cut vinegar and still have it be effective. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), April 26, 2000.

Wow, this forum never ceases to amaze me! What a great idea. I'm going to try it myself, and tell my mother. Mom recently inherited my Grandma's 30 or so acres. After 50 years or so of my Grandparents keeping everything organic, my mom's "male companion" (we won't get into my personal feelings about this BOZO) has been spraying chemicals all over the place (Round Up, and God only knows what else.) This guy has a "degree" in agriculture, or so he says, and so my mom trusts him to take care of the land. Anyway, I'm going to try the vinegar first, and then after it works (as I'm sure it will), I'm going to try to convince my mom to try it. After all, this forum, and the experience contained within are worth more than a million Degrees! Thanks for the tip, Gloria!

-- Laurie (SUPERGS63@AOL.COM), April 27, 2000.

Will have to try that.

Someone mentioned bleach - if you're thinking large volumes of bleach (either as herbicide - not straight organic, but still got to be better then the systemic poisons), or as bleach, or to sterilise water - you can mix and dilute swimming-pool chlorine to get the same thing as chlorine bleach, but in big lots at large savings.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), April 28, 2000.

I tried the vinegar yesterday and today some of the weeds are brown and dying. I have changed my e-mail address and I'm currently having trouble recieving my mail. Thanks for the tip.

-- Cheryl Cox (ccox33055@hotmail.com), April 28, 2000.

I've been too cheap to go buy a sprayer, so today I dumped out a small spray bottle we keep soapy water in for leak checking. I wandered around for a while spraying Canada thistles. What a joy! I had cats, dogs and the bottle lamb all "helping" and I didn't have to worry about them. I was wearing shorts and a T shirt and even though the wind was blowing about 20mph, I didn't have to worry about the spray getting on me.

I also went back to try finding the thistles I'd just poured vinegar on early. Couldn't find a trace of them. So even if the roots survive, spraying with vinegar isn't a big deal. I don't have to dress up in long sleeved and legged clothes, I don't have to worry about washing my clothes, I don't have to worry about cleaning the sprayer and figuring out where to dump the wash water. Vinegar has my vote. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), May 04, 2000.

I raise alpacas and llamas and my pastures are being overtaken by canadian thistle. I had considered roundup but after reading all the positive posts about vinegar i am convinced enough to try vinegar first. I have a sprayer so i'll be applying it that way. Any advice on the best time to spray? early spring, any sertain stage of growth or just spray the heck out of them?

Thanks, Jim Cone

-- jim cone (coneclar@fallsnet.com), March 04, 2001.

Am I add (about the bleach)?! I've been using it in my pool for three years in lieu of commercial pool products. I am VERY pleased. I add it at night. I've saved thousands of dollars and the chlorine level is still lower that what "they" consider safe for drinking water.

If it matters: the pool is an above ground (I live in the Dismal Swamp) and is 33 ft in diameter.

Hope this helps someone. The vinegar threads sure helped me. I put a new blacktop driveway in and now it seems that's the only place I can grow grass :) I'll try the vinegar today!

Thanks, Mary

-- Mary (maryw80@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

That is a really good idea!!! I own a Landscaping buisness and i have to spray a lot of weeds in parking areas and flowerbeds. Round-up is just to expensive, it cost over $150 to buy 2 gallons of Round-up Ultra and the vinegar will surely be an alternative.

-- Justin Houk (houkj@clemson.edu), April 16, 2001.

Vinegar may be bad for weeds (actually weeds are just misplaced flowers)but apple cider is good for your health. 2tsp pure cider vinegar mixed with 2 tsp honey in a glass a water once a day. My husband and I have been drinking it for over 20 years. It is suppose to keep the calcium in the body in suspension and help prevent or at least ease arthrities,(read about this years ago in a book about farmers in New England), and even though my husband is 65 and works with his hands...no problems. Gave to the animals too. They say it helps with easier birthing. Besides, it is a very refreshing.

-- Cordy (ckaylegian@aol.com), April 16, 2001.

Folks, you have found the best solution for Thistle. I was told of it by a horticulturist and landscape designer who has done massive installations. He said just spray or pour it on. Well, that was over 2 years ago and I can't tell you how well it works. You spray the thistle and it is wilted in less than 12 hours.

I hate herbicides as many of the others on this posting seem to also. I have tried spraying the whole top and pouring the vinegar down the stem. I prefer pouring some down the stem. Spraying the leaves doesn't speed it up any and pouring some down the stem seems more likely to kill the root which is the real source of the problem. Thistle is a root propagator, so it will take several applications over a period of weeks or months to get the new shoots and kill off the roots completely.

You also must beware of seeds. If the thistle goes to seed you have a hundred new plants to worry about next year. I have noticed no difference in effectiveness based on time of year or growing stage, except to note that the smaller and younger the sprout, the less vinegar you need to kill the thistle plants.

Thanks for the bleach ideas. I will research and try it too on the poison ivy.

Here is a link to a commercial organic weed killer called Burnout that's vinegar and lemon based. I have not tried it, I just buy white vinegar by the gallon at about $2.

http://www.biconet.com/lawn/burnout.html

This seems like a good site for bio-friendly weed control ideas.

-- Daniel Endy (danielendy@aol.com), May 19, 2001.

I have a persistent problem with Bermuda Grass in sunny California. The only ways of eliminating it that have worked for me are either to dig it out or to use Round-up. Would vinegar be effective on this plant, which spreads by underground and above ground runners as well as seeds? Is there any other way to eliminate this weed with using systemic poison?

-- Hal Voege (halvoege@ix.netcom.com), July 05, 2001.

Vinegar is a great weed solution. However, be careful as the vinegar can "poison" the soil for other plants for up to a year. So, be careful if you spray your garden, it may affect the seeds/plants that you put in there.

Amy

-- Amy Richards (amysgarden2@earthlink.net), July 05, 2001.

I'm a junior at Vincent High School in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Another student and I are performing an in-school experiment to test the effects of vingegar on pesty weeds. We are in the reasearch stage of our experiment and have found that many people perfer using vinegar as compared to name brand weed killers which prove to be harmful to people and/or pets. If there is anyone who can contribute to our research, or if anyone has any tips, will you please e-mail me. My e-mail address is lilbit53207@yahoo.com. Thank You. Shanon and Tara

-- Shanon Nowak (lilbit53207@yahoo.com), October 03, 2001.

I thought I should post a follow-up to my original vinegar experiment post. It has been about 18 months since we sprayed for thistles, and we have completed this year's growth season. On our entire 30 acres, the incidence of both Canadian and musk thistles was dramatically less this year -- there was no more than one plant per acre. Therefore, the kill from last year's vinegar application was quite complete.

All in all, it was not a bad result for a few days walking around with a hand sprayer and spraying a few cases of white vinegar! We accomplished this with far less money than a chemical would have cost. Also, I have seen no adverse consequences in our grasses or legumes, which are growing quite lushly where once we had thick stands of thistles and where we sprayed a LOT of vinegar.

-- Gloria Morris (gloriafarms@yahoo.com), November 13, 2001.

Thanks for the update, Gloria!

-- Joy F [in So. Wisconsin] (CatFlunky@excite.com), November 14, 2001.

Thanks for the update!!!!!!! I wish more people would do that. You have me convinced to try it on a broader scale this coming year.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), November 14, 2001.

Just wanted to thank you too for your update! Looks like our horse pasture will be a lot nicer next year because of you! Thanks!

-- Lisa in WI (lehman16NOSPAM@vbe.com), November 14, 2001.

I add just a little bit of liquid soap to vinegar for hard to kill stuff, I put wood ashes or used kitchen oil/grease along the fence to kill the burmuda grass, which takea repete applications of what ever you use because it grows back from the under ground stolons,

-- Thumper (slrldr@yahoo.com), November 15, 2001.