I know this is really going to open a can of worms - but do you think it's more important to marry for love, marry a helpmate (same ideas on how to live life), or marry a mental/intellectual mate (same philosophy and politics)?

-- Deborah (ActuaryMom@hotmail.com), April 13, 2000

Answers

What's you're definition of love?

-- Cindy (atilrthehony@yahoo.com), April 13, 2000.

The answer could be different for everyone. Love really helps but it is not always enough. I have a friend from Malaysia who's parents picked her spouse for her and they have a very good marriage. I think love can grow when you have like ideas and desires but it certainly helps to have "something" there! I think the ideal is try to find the mate God want you to have. Physical attraction only, I believe is a very poor reason to marry.

-- barbara (barbaraj@mis.net), April 13, 2000.

This is something that as a christian I think matters very little. I believe we should mary whom we will and then Love that person in spite of who they are. Love is not something you feel. It is something you do. Love is an action. What you are calling love is actually infatuation which can develop two ways. Ifatuation can grow into love or it can disappear. The thing is it is the person who is responsible for what it does. Love puts others ahead of themselves. Love is treating someone well even when they are not treating you well. Love is forgiving evil actions and being loving in spite of them. Love, ladies, is NOT letting someone beat on you. This isn't real love because the person doing it is really hurting themselves. Sometimes the most loving thing to do is turn someone over to the authorities. All marraiges should be for love because all people shoud decide to love their mate. This is a decision, an action, and it makes everything else immaterial.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), April 13, 2000.

Ideally,marry for all three! My first fiance was chosen for me by my parents. When I met him, it was like we had been cut out of the same soul and were finally reunited.We had everything in common except our age.We were very happy, but then my parents decided we were TOO much alike and forbade the marriage. I was underage and he wanted to respect their wishes, so we never got a chance to seee if it would have worked out. My mom picked out the second one,too,who I was attracted to,but didn't love(still loved the first one). I was deseperate to leave home, so I married that one- a BIG mistake! We had some things in commmon, but there was no respect on either side after awhile, and then the trust broke down.When I discovered he was a child molester I took my two kids and left!!! I decided that if I ever wre to marry again, I would look first for someone who I could trust and respect, and who had similar values and interests and life goals, even if I didn't love him,I could learn to love him. I wrote down a list of qualities and attributes I was looking for,some of which were strict necessities. Every time I ran into an eligible man, I mentally compared him to the list-if he didn't fit the description,I kept a distance. After a while I found a guy who did fit the list, but I didn't like him a whole lot.He seemed too nice. About that time,a friend told me she thought that this man and I would really be a good match and would be good for each other. I laughed at her,but soon after that, we struck up a friendship,and I grew to love him. We are now happily married, and I'm glad that I didn't wait to "fall in love"with someone. Whether or not there is an initial attraction,it takes a lot of time and work to grow to love somebody, and it's worth it!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), April 13, 2000.

I think it is best to marry a friend. Love takes all forms during a marriage, how boring it would be to marry someone who has all of the same ideas you have, though I would think for the sake of argument that religion, and how to raise your kids would be big ones to agree on before! A freind would want to be a help mate. So I vote for friend, after 20 years of marriage to my friend, who I love some days and hate others, who I gladly pick up after somedays and scream at other times for the very same offense, and who I cook, and clean and raise kids with and at other times, well you know!!!! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 13, 2000.

Deborah, I am a loser at marriage so really have no business giving advice, but I am always giving my opinion on things so here goes. I think marriage of helpmate/mentalmate would be the best. What I would like to know is how to tell if they are really what they say they are? I married a man I loved who was living the homestead lifestyle, and it turned out he hated that life, only stayed cause he wanted to marry me and thought he could change my mind. Many years later married an old friend who I had not seen in many years. He had gotten into drugs in the interim, and was mentally ill. When I came home from work he would be out in the wooded brushy area behind the house making little trails for the rabbits. I would have to go find him and bring him home! He finally left on his own, I felt terrible about the whole mess and decided it was time to stay by myself. Being a hopeless romantic, it is very sad for me to be alone. Oh, I have my children, who are grown, but live in the same state, I lost one son to cancer last year, that hurt worse than the failed marriages. It would be nice if one of the male ountrysiders contributed to this subject.

-- Karen Mauk (dairygoatmama@hotmail.com), April 13, 2000.

All I can say is ask God. That's what I did when I met a man I was not attracted to, although I did like him because he took the time to talk to me. I'm a small woman, and in my early twenties, I looked like a teenager (or possibly younger!). No one would talk TO me. They all seemed to be looking for my big sister. This was agrivating because I am the oldest. I agreed to a date simply because I'd had a terrible day, and found out that he was a nice guy. Pretty soon (21/2 weeks later) I prayed to see if this was the guy I was supposed to be with. Well, my prayer was answered, and we will be celebrating our 7th aniversery the summer. annette

-- annette (j_a_henry@yahoo.com), April 13, 2000.

I really think you need a combination of all three. You can decide which is the most important quality, but without all of those attributes, I think a woman might miss something. From my experience: I was first married to a man who was my friend and helpmate, and for sure my mental and intellectual mate, but with respect to love, I loved him more or less like a brother. I had NO clue what I was missing until I met the man I am married to now. Without love, and by that I mean a deeply committed, intimate romantic relationship, you might just as well have a room mate. Just my own very personal opinion and others might be happy some other way.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), April 13, 2000.

This one really is a can of worms, and I agree that it would be good to see some of the men contribute. Ideally, you shouldn't even think about marrying someone you haven't known for long enough to really get a good idea of their character. And you need to have the wisdom to be able to assess that character. If you feel you don't, have a friend or relative or your pastor -- someone who you feel has a degree of maturity and good judgement -- help you. And listen to them. It's a bad thing to be making lifetime decisions, which will not only affect you, but any children you may have, when you are intoxicated with being 'in love' with someone. And it is an intoxication -- and it does wear off after a while. If there isn't a good solid foundation of shared interests, beliefs, and standards, you won't have anything to build on when the infatuation wears off. I would say the most important things are to be able to respect and trust the other person. If you have those, and they are based on solid evidence of good character, then I think love will grow. Otherwise, without them, love will certainly die. Also, I think that it isn't wise to be trying to decide if you want to marry someone while at the same time living with them. That degree of intimacy creates an emotional bond that can be hard to break if it should turn out that you aren't right for one another. Far better to wait until after you are married, no matter how old you are. Also, we ought to be teaching our children how to make wise decisions when they start thinking of entering into relationships. A young person (no matter how wise they may think they are) lacks experience, and is suffering from the great handicap of an excess of hormones, which frequently causes them to make unwise decisions, with consequences that last a lifetime.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), April 13, 2000.

Why not let the cat pick your partner? Invite the potential to your house. If your cat doesen't even come over to the person thats bad. If the cat jumps on their lap and gets pushed away, no good. Now if the cat jumps on their lap and gets scratched behind the ears you may have something going!!! After 51 years thats all I know about love....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), April 13, 2000.

Well, I started this, so now I'll throw in my answer. I think having a practical "match" is critical - similar goals, etc, but that the ability to talk with each other is the most important thing. That probably goes along with those who recommend marrying your friend.

I do find it very interesting that most men aren't touching this subject (although I do like the "cat test" - think it would work with fish?) I wonder if that's because they're afraid their wives will read it and tell them they're wrong?

-- Deborah (ActuaryMom@hotmail.com), April 13, 2000.

A male point of view--after 47 years of living, I've learned so much about life and nothing about women ! I have been blessed with a wonderful partner and soul-mate. Communication is our key ! It took me forever--as a man-- to communicate how I feel. I hurt, that hurt my feelings, and I'm mad as $%^# and I'm going to do something about it-- are hard words for a man to say ! I failed at marriage once and took 12 years off to think the problem over, often blaming myself ! The problem was--I was a kid and she was a kid --and except for my two sons, the whole thing was doomed before we started. I wish there was some secret to relationships or a manual but those things are a myth ! Little Bit farm--is becoming quite the intellectual stimulator to me and I think her above post is most refreshing view. Love is not something we are in--it is something we do. I have an added advantage of missing my wife---we do not get alot of time together--so the time we do get-- is very precious to me. I think my grandparents and parents set a good example also and once I was ready to look and listen, it helped tremendously. Here's to those that have love and a wish, that those who need it are able to find it soon !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), April 14, 2000.

You may have something with the cat test. When I was dating, we had a Beagle-Chow mix dog. If she didn't like a fellow I brought home, I looked at him more closely and usually saw what she did. Later, when I took my now husband of almost 26 years out to feed the horses, my horse who really had an uncanny knack about people but was usually aloof about strangers, immediately went to this man he'd never seen before and the dog accepted him on the first visit too. Later, after we'd announced our engagement, one of my husband's friends asked if he'd gone the old fashioned route and spoken to my father. My husband told him that as a matter of fact, I'd told him if he spoke to my father, I wouldn't marry him as the marriage was between us, but that he did have to pass muster with my horse. We kept that horse until he died of cancer when we'd been married 16 years and the horse always trusted and loved my husband. I think he's pretty special too and he fills all three criteria you mentioned. He's funny, smart, kind, understanding and accepts me "warts and all." A lady couldn't ask for more. Marilyn

-- marilyn (rainbow@ktis.net), April 14, 2000.

Here i was reading down through this thread thinking it was really strange that my hubby hadn't commented on this some were. lol And there he was . Gotta love him even if we don't always see eye to eye. I think you have to have the same(or close to) ideas on how to live life, raise kids, got to have some intelect there too other wise you get board too easy, as far as politics well all of you have seen that :) ( love you dear honest) diffrent oppions make interesting discusions . Got have love but you got to be able to grow toghether too. That we've done though the heart aches and breaks and all. Not many people see life threw the same eyes i do. I thought no one did until i meet this mountain man and my dad intrudced us to Countryside. Well i am rambling and off the beaten trail . some one already said warts and all that goes for my spelling too lol becky

-- Becky (Joel681@webtv.net), April 14, 2000.

Boy, isn't this a heady question? I think that this is one of those things you really can't have an informed opinion about. By the time you get some real experience in the matter, you've already been biased. This is one of those things you can only look back on in your life and the answer would only work for you.

-- Chris Stogdill (cstogdill@rmci.net), April 14, 2000.

Well, for Heaven's sake, did you think I would not have an opinion on this? (I have an opinion on almost everything, and I strive to have the good ones outnumber the bad ones!) Physical attraction happens first. I was down this road many times. Sexual attraction happens next, in my opinion. For me, this has been rare, but then I don't have the lack of discrimination that afflicts Despicable Bill. Common interests are important, though not a very powerful deterrant. We had many common interests, but it took Maggie several years to actually LIKE chickens, and even longer to admit she WANTED to be a life member of the NRA. Politics play a part, too. But it's not a killer. For instance, DB is a Socialist, while Hillary is a Communist, but they stay together for their common cause. I guess, in my mind, the bottom line comes down to this: Love is important, while lust is not. Trust is important if it is not blind. Communication is necessary, while lies are deadly. And the number one answer, and the number one reason folks I've seen have problems, is the old bugaboo - MONEY!! ONE of you needs to be the comptroller (controller) of the finances. And whoever it is needs to share the reasons for financial decisions, but still be able to make decisions. Sometimes it's he, sometimes she. Financial ability is not gender specific. Figure out who it is, and go for it. No kiddin' folks - this is the biggest problem for most people! Good luck!

-- Brad (homefixer@mix-net.net), April 14, 2000.

Brad,but don't forget sexual incompatibility is number two...no wonder people are surfing here for adult sites!LOL

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), April 14, 2000.

Deborah, I think all three reasons are necessary for a really good marriage. The first time I was 18 and I thought I had love, never gave a thought to the other two. I heard an expert the other day say that contempt is the number one marriage killer and I agree with him. The second time around I married someone I wanted as a friend, respected as a person, and could have tons of fun with. Not a small thing, fun! After I got my divorce I decided I didn't like being married and I wasn't going to get into that trap again. When you are happy with yourself and not looking for a MAN is when the world opens up-just my opinion. BTW, my Mom, 83, says, "I love that man every other Tuesday!".

-- Peg (jnjohnsn@pressenter.com), April 14, 2000.

I waited and waited until I finally couldn't help responding. I have the good fortune to be married to my best friend. Trust, love, romance, laughter, I could go on...they are all there. We have had difficult times, but we never gave up on each other. I think Little Bit said it so well..it is something you do. When we chose to get married, we took our time and prayed about it. Above all, we RESPECT each other. That doesn't mean we agree on everything. But we NEVER treat the other any way other than how we would want to be treated. Hormones (ladies know what I mean!)and job stress work against this often, but we give each other room. This took time, but I think we're doing pretty well with it. I read a really good piece in a book on this and one day while surfing I found it on another site. I'll reference it in case anyone is interested. Before you read it, know that I'm far from being the submissive wife described, and I do not homeschool, but regardless of your religious convictions I think there is a lot to be said in this little article. Here's the site http://www.credenda.org/issues/vol6/femi6-3.htm...That's my two cents!

-- Jennifer (jkmills@freewwweb.com), April 14, 2000.

One last thought, on the lighter side...this is my marriage description of mutual respect...My husband HATES to go into fabric stores with me. When we were first married I couldn't figure out why he liked to go to gun shows. Now, he still hates to go into fabric shops, but he is perfectly understanding and will find the nearest gun show to browse through while I shop for fabric! Just kidding... He tolerates my interests and even trys to be encouraging.. He's just lucky that I started to get interested in gun shows too!!HA HA HA

-- Jennifer (jkmills@freewwweb.com), April 14, 2000.

I vote for the cat test !

-- diane dirck (di_wtch@yahoo.com), April 15, 2000.

Hey guys! - if we find really good answers here, we've got a best- seller! I guess I'll have to go back and say that trust is maybe at the top of the list, but only trust that is realistic! When we were married, at an age that today's munchkins would find infantile, we were both on our own - ie. independent of Mom & Dad for financial support. We were YOUNG, at least by today's standards. So we decided we could do it ON OUR OWN, and begorrah! - we did! I think the old-timey determination to be independent has been lost, or at least, diminished. But back to the bottom line - to make it work, you have to be dedicated to spouse, family, country, and God! Works for us, doesn't work for Despicable Bill! Sorry!, I'm a Libertarian! Actually, Proud I'm a Libertarian! Many of you folks will join me one day. I just hope it's before Judgement Day! I apologize for preaching, especially to the choir. Nonetheless, GL!( Having re-read this, I realize it is somewhat disjointed, but then those who read this can probably paw through the chaff!)

-- Brad (homefixer@mix-net.net), April 15, 2000.

Brad, you and your wife deserve congrats! But the key to success is that BOTH parties have to be committed. (You can take that any way you like) My previous post wasn't very clear either. I made it sound as though I was again divorced. Once is enough for me. No, this time it took. In a couple of weeks we will celebrate 15 years- wonderful years, every one of them. I never dreamed marriage could be this good.

-- Peg (jnjohnsn@pressenter.com), April 15, 2000.

I married a man that was a musician as I am, shared my religious beliefs and was my friend. I really married him because my mother wanted me to. She felt that we would be good together. I called off the engagement once and was pressured back into it. It was not a good experience. He always had great needs. He was a covert abuser (emotional and verbal abuse) and eventually succumbed to schizophrenia. He hid this problem for our whole marriage. It was always stress, or someone had it in for him etc. I should have kept him as a friend and not messed up my children's lives by marrying him. Now I have to live with the guilt that the schizophrenia, in his case, is genetic. Many others of his family, that I never met, also suffer. This is a hanging sword over our children's heads. I knew this man for a year and a half before we married and I really thought I knew him. But, underneath I always had a funny feeling and I should have listened to my inner self. Now I'm very much alone and I'm trying hard to rebuild my life and part time homesteading has been excellent therapy for me. Marriage is such a deeply personal experience. People say that it can be great fun and very rewarding. My advice to to spend quality time together, meet and really get to know all of your intended's family, ask questions and then listen to what your inner self tells you.

-- Cheryl Cox (ccox33055@hotmail.com), April 16, 2000.

Ideal marriage-Probably all three. I can personally say when living the homestead lifestyle that marriage to a spouse with the same goals and ambition (as more in helpmate) would probably stand a better chance of surviving than a marriage based on the other reasons. I have found in my own experience (and seen in others with similar lifestyles,) often times one spouse or the other is the homesteader and loves the lifestyle. The other is just along because of love or simply because they are married. Eventually one ends up doing all the work, resentment builds, etc. It took several years for my marriage to get to that point but it did. I am the homesteader-he is not. Love had nothing to do with it, just different goals and different wants from life.

-- Marci (ajourend@libby.org), April 16, 2000.

Another one from the guy side: I lived with someone who had the same philosophy etc. After a few months we agreed to split (amicable 'cause we were both bored to death. My wife is about as different from me as two people can be, but after 15 years we are still going srong. I say different is best!

-- kevin beckey (Kevcin@bemail.com), April 18, 2000.

Variety is the spice of life! You don't want your mate to be TOO much like you. Different ideas, etc. can help shed light on problems, etc. Plus your mates differences can compliment you, and provide a 2nd set of skills and knowledge you wouldn't have otherwise.

-- Eric Stone (ems@nac.net), April 18, 2000.

First of all I love Vickies answer. First thing thing is to be mature. I don't mean anything about age, I mean take time to learn about real comunication, self-understanding and responsability etc. before you even THINK about looking for a partner. Second look for that in them. Yes you should love him but if you don't like him the love will fade. You don't have to have all the same interests but if he is mighty-hunter-man and you find hunting marally/physically repulsive beyond compromise then you need to rethink. Most important you BOTH MUST, MUST, MUST be able to comunicate with uderstanding and kindness and withOUT blame even on subjects that you would rather ignore. I nearly lost my wonderful husband because we had not learned these skills first so we cast blame, held grudges, and basically let our pride get in the way. Fortunately we fought for a second shot! We may yell and grump or even walk away for a while but we learned to make a point of apologizing whenn neccessary, and just as important, explaining our point of veiw and LISTENING to the other side. Belive me it might hurt a lot sometimes in the moment but in the long run we are sronger, more thoughtful,and happier for it!

self-help anyone? YUCK. sorry.

-- Novina West (lamb@stellarnet.com), April 18, 2000.

So many wonderful thoughtful answers! Main reason I asked - in reading through the forum I've seen some comments from spouses who feel like they do all the work, or people who's spouse doesn't want to be homesteading (and perhaps is passive-aggressively undermining it). I'm single and would prefer to be in a loving, long-term relationship, but I think homesteading is even more important to me. Can I have both? Part of me likes the "old-fashioned" idea that two people agree on the goal, and then love develops. I definitely agree that love is an action more than a feeling.

Most interesting is the range of opinions here is just as great as on any other topic. I love it!

-- Deborah (ActuaryMom@hotmail.com), April 18, 2000.

I wasn't even going to read this letter, and I certainly had no plans to respond, since I have comparatively little experience -- married at 19 and almost 33 years now with the same spouse. But here's my two cents worth: First, you gotta genuinely like the person, not just love him or her. Marry someone you'd want as a friend. Intense feelings of love can come and go, but you can't fall out of "like." Second, you gotta respect the person. Third, marry "up." It really helps if you marry someone better than you. Smarter. Kinder. Sexier. More Patient. More emotionally stable. Harder working. More frugal. Less critical. Funnier... whatever is truly important to you. I've learned those qualities almost always outweigh the fact she hates hunting, fishing, and football...

-- Rog (flanders@probe.net), April 19, 2000.

My personal belief is, you have to have all three to have a successful, happy, respectful, long lasting and mutually satisfying marriage. You can do it without any one thing, but it won't be what it could be without all three.

Also -- all things mentioned here are important, common interests, common motivations, common politics, common beliefs on money management. However, I don't think that any of these things can go for long without love. Love isn't something that a marriage can do without for long. No other factor in a marriage is as constant. Money troubles come and go, but you stick it out because you love each other, outside influences cause strain, common interests wain, and as every one of you who is married knows, you don't "like" your partner 24/7/52. There are times when you feel like strangling them. But you stick it out, because of love.

I disagree with the person who said that love is something you do, not something you feel. It's both. If you didn't feel it, there would be no reason to carry on. I'm very lucky that I fell in love with a man who keeps things interesting, even when I could kill him for some of the things he does. He promised me adventure. I've gotten it! And I've stuck it out because of love.

-- Tracy (trimmer@westzone.com), April 22, 2000.

Just HAD to share this: an unmarried man is incomplete. A married man is finished.

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), April 26, 2000.

Oh, Jooooeee, ever heard this one? Now that you're married/ You must obey/ And keep your wife in kindling wood.

Anybody know what the rest of the poem is? Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), April 26, 2000.