Express your thoughts.

-- Piper (piperdane@yahoo.com), March 01, 2000

Answers

I don't know where the innocence has gone.........I think somme of the big questions now are.....Why.......What can we do to prevent these things from happening. I don't think that forbidding gus to all of us is a solution either. Maybe a long range solution is to require a rigorous course of education on marriage and parenting - - - with no cohabitation allowed. Certificate of graduation required when demanded by authorities. I think guns will always be available to the lawless and their children. Guns are illegal, sure they are, So how does the Irish Republican Army get them ? Guns not available there - - -then they use bombs. Maybe abhorrence to violence can be instilled from the mother's knee, and constantly reinforced until the person attains their majority. I don't think that there any rapid, rational solutions around. Education, education from crib to grave by parents, neighbors, relatives - - - - first and then the schools can reinforce what has been taught at home. I have my own idea when this all started in our country and will be glad to talk about via e-mail. doug

-- doug (ionoi@webtv.net), March 01, 2000.

I agree that we can't forbid all guns. Something else will be used to harm.

I also agree that the parents do hold some responsibility, especially in this case. But Doug, your suggestion about education before marriage, while a good idea, isn't really plausible. I mean, sure we can educate people before they get married. But we can't forbid cohabitation. And even if we do, people will still have children. It's next to impossible to keep two people apart if they really want to be together. Besides, at what point does that infringe on the right to freedom?

People have a right to bear arms. And in that respect, children have a right to bear arms. But when did we go from that point to a six- year-old shooting a classmate?

-- Piper (piperdane @yahoo.com), March 01, 2000.

Please note: I agree that this was a terrible situation, a first grade child killing another first grade child. But....

Already there is an avalanche of professional political weepers and wailers throughout the media. Clinton has already seen fit to "decry" this event (any excuse to appear in public, bite his lip and shed a crocodile tear) and compare this country unfavorably with other countries in terms of childhood deaths from guns. (He didn't say anything about "collateral" deaths of innocent civilians in other nations caused by presidential attempts to distract public attention from his misdeeds by tossing a few missiles at the suspected location of those branded as bad guys.)

Until a few years ago I lived in New York State which has had may be the nation's toughest and most restrictive gun law on the books for my entire life. A law-abiding citizen in New York has to crawl through vast amounts of red tape to legally purchase a handgun; in many parts of the state, especially in the N.Y. City area, it is essentially impossible to accomplish. As we all know, there are almost no gun-related deaths in New York and criminals there do not have access to guns. Yeah, right. All they have accomplished is to keep guns out of the hands of decent people. Criminals have no difficulty in obtaining weapons. So the Clintons and the Gores are simply using this event in their usual cynical fashion to attempt to make the entire nation as safe as New York. And speaking of cynical, Bill couldn't resist dragging politics into this by tying it to Senator McCain's opposition to the proposal for mandatory trigger locks on guns.

And now we will have to listen to the media sob-sisters telling us how we are a violence prone and evil nation, a culture of death and guns and killing. I've been hearing that crap for years. (Actually, since I was your age Piper, at the time of JDK's assasination, when the media was wailing that we were all collectively guilty for living in such a violent culture.)

Look at the Serbs and the Albanions. Look at Africa, thousands upon thousands, hundreds of thousands killed, hacked to death by machetes and beaten to death with clubs. Those killings did not take place in the U.S.

It is horrible that children kill children, but I am so tired of the people who make a living by being professional mourners or who take such delight in telling the rest of us how sick and degraded our entire culture is. (How dare Clinton lecture anyone about decency or morality or ethics? And the same thing goes for his buddy Gore who, although he may be better able to keep his fly zipped, is even more guilty of violations of law and ethics in his brazen political fundraising.)

Yeah... well, other than that I have no strong opinions on the subject...

-- Jim (jimsjournal@yahoo.com), March 01, 2000.

Decent people don't need guns. In my opinion, and I'm pretty sure facts back this, more criminals steal guns from these decent folks and use them against them or on the streets than r examples of these decent folks using guns in self defense. The right to bear arms means much different things now than at the time of the constitution. 6 year old boys should not have access to guns. 6 yr old boys don't have the mind capacity to understand that this little girl is never coming back. We also should be concerned with inner city schools where guns r much more prevelant and shootings and violence r common. Maybe this leakeage into younger and younger age groups and more suburban areas will force the United States to take action, despite the NRA.To look how our culture deals with violence and weapons.

-- (lilaclorax@yahoo.com), March 01, 2000.

First off, I say the hell with the professional profiteers of problems . . . . damn them to hell. That said, this is an addition to my previous comments earlier today - - - after Piper reasoned with me. ----------------------------------------------------------- It bothers me not that two or more people want to live together and do their thing. . . . . . . BUT . . . . . . when a child hits the scene, there should a guarantee that the child shall have as secure an environment as financially and ethically possible. It is time then for the parents to do something, whether a binding contract, registration of domestic commitment - - - whatever you might call it - - - accepting all legal responsibility for the child. This should be in force at the latest at the birthing place if not during pregnancy.

I cannot solve these things, but I am deeply worried about them.

-- doug (ionoi@webtv.net), March 02, 2000.

A bit of a post script to my comments yesterday... since then I've seen news reports about this boy's environment... father in jail, mother off somewhere, leaving him with an uncle living in a flophouse environment of causual drug use (and dealing?), a place where a (stolen) loaded handgun was just left lying around... And of course the Clintons and Gores want to use this as a pretext for taking guns away from decent law-abiding people.

Recently, in Providence, RI, there was an incident outside a restaurant. Some women had been arguing inside, had taken their argument outside, it became a fight, the police were called. A man (call him "D") was waving a handgun around (an illegal handgun). He was ordered to drop the gun and he did put in down inside his car. Another man came out of the restaurant with a gun in his hand. He was ordered to drop it, he did not, the police thought he was about to shoot them so they fired. He was hit and later died in the hospital. He was an off-duty cop who had been in the restaurant and had come out to help but in the dark they had not recognized him. He apparently couldn't hear them (or didn't think they meant him). The cop who was killed was a second generation officer (his father holds the rank of Major in the Providence dept.) This has brought out all of the self-appointed "community leaders" and political hacks. They don't think the state Attorney General's investigation and a grand jury can investigate this, they want a Special Prosecutor (and they want a voice in the selection process)... uh, yeah, some of the same people who were very much against special prosecutors just a few months ago... they also are demanding that the police should be disarmed... Yeah, right, so they can go up against characters like "D" who are waving guns around...

Now this D character was out on parole... and a judge yesterday revoked his parole and sent him back to jail to serve the remaining twelve years of his sentence. The "community leaders" are apparently upset about this as well. This poor sweet gentle man (who only has a record of more than two dozen felonies over the decade) is being sent back to prison and "the people" are outraged. As one demonstrator in front of the court house said on the radio yesterday "They shouldn't send him to prison just cause some bitches was fighting. It wasn't his fault."

(As you may have guessed, Doug, this guy apparently has "fathered" multiple children with multiple women without benefit of clergy.)

Bringing New York style gun laws to the rest of the country would disarm all of the honest decent citizens but would do nothing to stop the thugs like "D" from being armed. His gun was illegal. He was a convicted felon and can not legally own a gun. He was out on parole, etc., etc. but laws mean nothing to criminals like that. And wouldn't it just be wonderful if these wonderful community leaders could have their way and both the police and the citizens were disarmed... then only "D" and his ilk would have guns....

The problem is with people like "D" and with those like the family of that little boy; the problem is not with people who work hard to provide for their families and raise their children with love. But guess which group the media sob-sisters and "community leaders" always wants to blame and penalize and which group they always seem to find excuses for...

Jim

-- Jim (jimsjournal@yahoo.com), March 02, 2000.

In many ways I agree with Jim. . . . . I think we (of the United States ) have this this weird, knee jerk reaction to most things and the popular thing is to holler, special investigation, prosecutor, panel - - -or pass a law - any law just pass it now, don't worry about the enforcement part of it. If all else fails, throw money at it - billions. Those things are supposed to solve all problems - - but it HAS to be done 5 minutes ago. The old failing of us all, "Somebody gotta do sumpin' right now, don't care what but something NOW !

-- doug (ionoi@webtv.net), March 02, 2000.