I know we seem to only care about the US situation and overlook(?) the bleak picture for the millions that are hanging by a thread already. I read so many comments like "oh hell, THEY are used to loseing elec." However, MANY regions of the world have thier economies tied directly to the ports. When the ports freeze up in those locations, starvation begins for many and the numbers will go up fast. They have no social safety nets. (we will see how well OURS is working in 2000). All the debate about OUR situation bypasses the fact that for millions, they WILL be hit head on. John Kosinken, the so called y2k czar for the white house talked to me AFTER a community meeting (the very first one). The poster advertising the event said in BIG letters......LEADING THE WAY TO Y2K!.........With an exclamation point! Good grief!

I asked him about shipping and ports. Anyway, J.Kosky said that ports were a real concern and that if they go down they will not be back up in three days, it could take months. That is what he said. Also, he was happy to say that his office was instrumental in getting the shipping industy together for two or three days and they came up with "standards" and he said that was real important and again he said that he was glad that he helped that happen.

One of the reports on the senate web site is from a shipping company called "Crowley". They detailed their efforts and it shows how much of a task it is to try and make all the shipping and organizing and payment parts y2k-ok. They were frank in thier admission that they had no control over a lot of the complexity that is involved in recieving goods and payment from a third world port. The locals may be used to some electricity breaks, but shipping from ports cannot happen without ALL the various complex parts working.

The UN provided many of the port computer systems, and, guess what, they are NOT OK.

As it is, our media does not report about the hell people are going through in asia, russia and other locations. SHipping products to a massively consuming america is the way food is put on the table for a large number of millions. THEY are faceing real trouble.

I guess this is a US only forum, sure sounds like it. I love the quality of the posting here, but I do think the third world folks are part of the unfolding story of y2k. Anything that hits us here is just another level of hurt that THEY will also get if it stalls our economy.

It IS a disaster. Just maybe not for all.

-- billburke (bburke@earth.com), November 24, 1999

Answers

This is NOT just a "U.S." forum, it -- like the Internet -- is global in scope, welcoming all nationalities. Y2K affects everyone, and everyone who visits here should feel free to contribute and share. However -- and this is very important -- all posts should be in American.

Thank you.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), November 24, 1999.

King of Spain, let's get it right!

It is NOT American, IT IS ENGLISH!!!

Just like you, it is not Mexican but Spanish!

-- bbb (bbb@bbb.com), November 24, 1999.

By the way, what is so exciting about mudwrestling?

-- bbb (bbb@bbb.com), November 24, 1999.

Thanks Billburke!

A good post--a subject I've been trying to wrap my mind around for some time.

The hardest part in reaching conclusions is having faith in the information supporting the logic.

A dearth of info. means conclusions of little confidence, as I'm increasingly discovering... My conclusion is to prepare for what COULD HAPPEN, not what *will* happen. What if I'm wrong?

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), November 24, 1999.

I got this vision of Juan Valdez paddling a dugout canoe to America with a load of coffee beans.

-- Ocotillo (peeling@out.===), November 24, 1999.

Check the number of additions to this forum after about midnight pacific time, and you'll see that it is indeed mostly U.S. residents. Almost all posts are during the daylight hours in the U.S.

-- You Know... (notme@nothere.junk), November 24, 1999.

Starbucks is mocha-cafe-latte-half-calf-TOAST.

Dammit Juan row faster the US programmers cannot fix the IRS without this coffee.

-- squid (Itsdark@down.here), November 24, 1999.

bbb,

Hey, mudwrestling is great if the mud is warm and of a very fine grit level...nothing like it! Much better than Jello!

John Ludi

-- Ludi (ludi@rollin.com), November 24, 1999.

Thank you for your post BillB. Most people in the US and on this forum have never lived abroad. Many have traveled but really have not seen how the local populace lives on a day to day basis. When you don't have such experience in your memory bank, its very difficult to imagine what can happen in these other areas of the world. Its kind of like you taking a new immigrant or a visitor from Russia (hell, even Western Europe) to WalMart or Costco. They can't believe it. It is NOT that we are not concerned about the rest of the world, its just that we don't KNOW the rest of the world. Thus we cannot know the ramifications. We can't/don't really know the ramifications in our own country. Keep talking to us...we are all a quick study.

Taz

-- Taz (Tassie123@aol.com), November 24, 1999.

"All posts should be in American."

King of Spain, you are showing the world what a bigot and moron you really are!!

-- (Polly@troll.com), November 24, 1999.

The reason the focus of this forum seems to be American-centric is because [brace yourself], the majority of posters are... Americans!

If 90% of the posters were Nigerian, I suspect the focus would be entirely different, concentrating on Nigerian-centric concerns.

Guess what? When people post, when people worry, it's generally about things that affect *them* personally. And, the more personal, the closer to home it strikes, the more weighty the concerns appear.

That's life.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), November 24, 1999.

Hey, Polly, I suppose you'd rather have him post in some *foreign* language?

I suppose you're ignorant of the obvious fact that the reason the USA is Number One is because we don't speak a foreign language like all those *other* countries (which, I might point out, are *filled* with foreigners)?

Maybe you'd be happier if he struck a compromise, and posted in Canadian?

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), November 24, 1999.

Close colleague (and relatively rare GI) who hails from Ghana and has business ties in Ghana believes that Ghana will be creamed in the event of serious disruptions. These folks survive largely due to shipments from abroad. "The whole world is toast, but we will be fine" is one of the more preposterous battle cried of the reality- challenged.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), November 24, 1999.

DC area: Earlier this year when I would chat up Y2K to everyone.. I was trying to tell 1 of my doctors offices that many of their equiptment & computers etc.. were noncompliant.. this started a chat by only 1 GI. Her hubby works in the port industry (what ever she said). She stated that they had an urgent meeting last year & were wetting their pants over all the expected trouble. She couldn't even list off all the problems expected. They also fear ship navigation systems & manuverability in ports & expect some crashes & lots of damage. They were even issued guns & tought how to shoot. Needless to saw her hubby started their Y2K preps etc, & bought some protection for themselves.

-- concerned (checkin@it.out), November 24, 1999.

"All posts should be in American."

King of Spain, you are showing the world what a bigot and moron you really are!!

-- (Polly@troll.com), November 24, 1999.

Really. I vote for pig latin.

-- a (a@a.a), November 24, 1999.

a,

I think that's the language *some* computers will be speaking next year.

billburke,

Thanks. Travelled extensively, and I'm also VERY concerned about the global Y2K situation. People in this country, who haven't traveled, have no idea how interconnedted we ALL are.

Guess they'll learn... next year.

Diane, in mourning for Starbucks

;-D

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 24, 1999.

Globalism will really take a hit!!!

-- Z (Z@Z.Z), November 24, 1999.

The King obviously speaks all the European languages and was educated at Oxford. However, he graciously condescends to speak in American. I, for one, must respect his democratic sensibility. He wrestles, by the way, only in the finest French white clay.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 24, 1999.

bill,

I received some interesting news firsthand from a local city government person here in Los Angeles which may indicate the type of contingencies Kosky is speaking of.

This person, whom I trust totally, works in the district which includes the Port of Los Angeles and San Pedro. He shared with me that the Coast Guard will not let ANY ship into the harbor if it cannot prove itself compliant. ALL cargo will be taken off at sea, outside the harbor area.

Think about the implications of this. Los Angeles Harbor is HUGE. The amount of commerce coming into the area is HUGE. It's all systematic in it's handling and driven by computer, from off loading to inventory to storing, etc.

If this situation begins to bog down this will be like pushing a bowling ball through a... well... you get the idea.

This will not be pretty. Everyone in this country benefits somehow because of our ports and they will suffer in some way, some how.

Mike

==========================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), November 24, 1999.

<>

---

Oooops! Who the hell came up with this one: it will crash the system of distribution and importation of ALL good (except what can fly in) in hours.

Nice idea, but can't work in practice.

For example: ports of Houston, New Orlean, Baton Rouge, Lake Charles (LA), Portsmouth and Norfolk VA - same with Oakland CA, Newport News, etc.

These handle bulk cargo, containers, oil, crude and refined products of various mixes, and coal and wheat and rice and otehr grains .... import too cars and containers.

YOU CAN'T OFFLOAD THESE TO SMALLER SHIPS - IMPOSSIBLE.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 24, 1999.

Sorry - for the interuption. To continue.

there aren't enough ships to offload cargo and tranship.

There aren't facilities to do - you drive drive a car off a ramp at the end of a ship onto a barge.....or anything except the car ramp the ship was design for.

Ever try offloading tons of grain with a shovel? - there are NO bulk facilites to do it without the tons per minute chutes and railroad tracks....all of which are shoreside.

Oil? Gasoline? Liquidfied natural gas? What are you going to put them in?

You can't offload containers without the shoreside cranes and container dollies and stackers and forklifts.....

If imposed - you'd see a crisis in two-three days that would put the oil embargo to shame. And an immediate stop to offshore economies that would boggle the mind as trade stops.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 24, 1999.