What the hell is going on here?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Have posts been edited? Have people's words been changed? If not, why is this a-hole so upset?

I've been away, clue me in.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), November 22, 1999

Answers

To the top

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), November 22, 1999.

Dude, you just flooded the forum with twenty dup posts to disrupt intentionally, and then you sit here and cry your being censored? If anyone needs to get a grip...

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), November 22, 1999.

Unk TYPICALLY what is being edited would be considered non- publishable in a family oriented newspaper. (eg "sack of excrement" etc). Titles are being changed because there are ACTUAL content posted under headlines such as "What the bitch doesn't want you to know) etc.

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), November 22, 1999.


This is getting old folks. I suggest we start a new forum called Y2K Crybabies. It should be pretty busy next year if they net stays up.

-- a (a@a.a), November 22, 1999.

Uncle,

See thread...

Lawmaker Gives Good Grades on Y2K [Former Title: Why are the SYSOPS deleting VALID POSTS?]

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001pbm



-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 22, 1999.



When he is willing to post the dated keystroke capture then we will have to re-interogate our sysops. Until then i take NO ones WORD for NOTHING!

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), November 22, 1999.


Unk:

Diane has taken to prefixing "WARNING: SPIN" to thread titles expressing opinions *about y2k* that she doesn't care for.

Essentially, the threat (and today vigorous) practice of removing threads and posts that don't meet the proper pessimistic standards has triggered an avalanche of protests by those being zapped (some of whom are virulent pessimists, zapped by mistake) along with a rousing round of cheers by those whose opinions *currently* meet with "official approval".

It's a mess, but the sysops are the trigger.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 22, 1999.


Best not to even answer with anything other than this. Flint you should take a look as well if you want to make an "educated" and "balanced" response.

http://stand77.c om/wwwboard/messages/5057.html

It speaks for itself.

Stealth



-- Stealth Sysop (home@TB2k.com), November 22, 1999.


I think that it is obvious to anyone that the "usual gang of idiots" -- Andy Ray, Doomsucky, You knowwho, Truth, Y2K Pro (though I really would have expect better from you, Pro, I thought you had some class) -- have decided to go all-out to disrupt this forum for the small amount of time remaining until Y2K happens. Two comments:

1) This should serve as testimony that these people have NOTHING ELSE to draw on, other than disruption. They cannot put forth a valid argument, they can only spout off idiotic stuff about "memes" and how "doomers" will want to kill everyone when Y2K turns out OK, etc., etc. This is purely for purposes of disruption (I tend to doubt that they even believe this nonsense themselves), and to try to scare off any new person from wanting to investigate Y2K on this forum.

2) In the heat of what has been happening in trying to contain these disruptions, maybe -- MAYBE, I don't know one way or the other -- the SYSOPS may have made a mistake or error in judgment in a few instances. I suspect when you are trying to quell someone who insists on starting 50 "protest" threads at once, or in the middle of a legitimate thread remove a post that contains profanity or rascist remarks, it is tough to please everybody. I can tell you this: The SYSOPS have my full support, and I hope that they have yours too.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), November 22, 1999.

probably a dumb question but what does "to the top" mean?

-- dufus (green@jello.brains), November 22, 1999.


"To the top" sends the thread back to the top of the "recent answers" column.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 22, 1999.

Stealth:

AAACK! Loonies! I hadn't seen that. I avoid the debunker forum because (as I may have written on another thread) I find open minds here, and not there. But both extremes are populated by fanatics, no doubt about it.

I applaud efforts to moderate this forum so as to enforce some standards of behavior. As far as I'm concerned, spamming the forum with 1,000 duplicate posts or threads is out of line. Using stupid HTML tricks is out of line. Editing content is out of line. Any practice whose purpose is to *prevent* debate is out of line.

Conversely, I'm glad to see *any* opinion expressed here. I even place value on posts that are nothing more than foul-mouthed attacks, since such posts demonstrate the intellectual level of the poster far better than anything I could say. And if people want to respond to attacks, that's fine with me.

This forum is not protected by stifling "wrong" opinions, but should be moderated to *encourage* all opinions to be expressed, however poorly they may be articulated. Attacks against the forum itself are out of line. Bear in mind that selectively deleting uncongenial opinions, (if they're properly expressed), subtly undermines the forum itself.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 22, 1999.


This forum has been extraordinary functional and the Sysops have, I believe, tried their best to be fair in their "snip's" of certain posts what they felt were objectionable. UNTIL a certain Sysop returned (after an absence forced upon him/her by his/her spouse ). This individual announced that he/she had returned with a vengeance, was ready to kick *A--* and take no prisoners.. ZERO tolerance. WOW!!!! Serious stress attack !! Dianne, can you or one of the other Sysops, please pull this plane out of the dive ?

This forum seemed to be working OK...I think the Sysops (before 2 or 3 days ago) have been extrodinarily

-- Enough is Enough (555@the.shore), November 22, 1999.


Folks,

I barely have time to check into this forum, let alone follow-up on battle plans on another.

It's hard to piece together what has happened, but it feels a bit like the baby got tossed out with the bathwater.

Is cory's idea of a killfile appropriate?

I'm very uncomfortable with posts being edited, and when I get to the end of a thread and the submit box is gone I get an omnious sense of forboding.

I wish it was easier, but I just have the awful feeling that this may be what we have ahead of us in a larger scale.

Thanks all, good luck.

-- flora (***@__._), November 22, 1999.


Enough,

DO look at Steath's link above.

We're documenting abuse and contacting ISP's, etc.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TRASH THEIR FORUM. THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO HANDLE THESE SEMI-ADULT ADOLESCENTS.

Thank You All... for your patience.

(Guess they watched the Y2K Movie)

;-D

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 22, 1999.



Hey, I like that idea, the "TimeBomb 2000 Cult." That's pretty cool, we should ask Ed if we can change the name. Really piss off the gubmint! :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 22, 1999.

flora,

A few titles were changed. The change was noted. (At least by me).

Posts are NOT being edited, but the spammer's threads are being deleted or their posts snipped out form other posters threads.

They abused their posting privleges here, so now ther are summarily being tossed out.

Their choice.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 22, 1999.


Diane:

Please know that the vast majority of us support you. Don't be swayed by the childish whinings of a few disturbed individuals whose goal is to draw attention to themselves by disrupting the forum. Thank you for your vigilance and keep up the good work!

-- X (X@X.com), November 22, 1999.


Uncle D., the Debunker trolls have declared war. The sysops are trying their best to keep the forum usable. You know how most of us oldtimers are against censorship, we're just not for anarchy and the Debunkers have been trying to take down the forum with huge spammings (100+ posts of same threads, OT complaints and disruptions of discussions etc). I was here this weekend and saw it...wasn't pretty trust me. They're still at it.

Check this this thread from Debunkers' "declaration of war".

-- Chris (#$%^&@pond.com), November 22, 1999.


Thanks. I saw all hell break loose on friday, not pretty indeed.

I can't help but think this all works against their intended goal{s}.

-- flora (***@__._), November 22, 1999.


Flint: I do not agree with your assessments of what is soon to occur, but man, I truly appreciate your dialogue. As i have said in the past, people such as yourself will always find a place setting at mt table. I do look forward to your posts and thoughts. I'm forever grateful (sp?)for your continued posts. It is always good to find contradictions that give one thought to pause. By the way... I'm sitting next to my new warm wood-burning stove up in the beautiful foothills of my new home. My wife and children are so happy for the move. Hope you're right about Y2K. I only want to see this country become the country so many of us envision it to be...a country of true freedom and prosperity...a country of Godly standards. Shepherd.

-- shepherd (shepherd@sierratel.com), November 22, 1999.

My Favorite phrase is: "Lead if you want to lead, follow if you want to follow, just get the hell out of my way!!" ;-)

Perhaps, because I am such an avid individualist and am immune to the rantings of the fanatics (on both sides), I have a tendency to assume (wrong) that everyone else has the ability to do the same. I have been guilty of 'picking the brains' of the posters on this forum. I follow the links that are provided, read the reports, and I make my decisions. I understand that many feel that this forum is under attack, and this is probably accurate, I understand your desire to protect it, however,

"This forum is not protected by stifling "wrong" opinions, but should be moderated to *encourage* all opinions to be expressed, however poorly they may be articulated. Attacks against the forum itself are out of line. Bear in mind that selectively deleting uncongenial opinions, (if they're properly expressed), subtly undermines the forum itself." Flint

Guess who's side I am on? NOT yours, NOT theirs....I am here for only ONE reason, to gather any and all info I can get to protect myself and my family, my friends and whatever stray dogs /people that God may place in my path.

My sincere best wishes and prayers go out to all on this forum...I will be thrilled beyond belief, to find ALL of you checking in here on 2-1-00 with an "ALL IS WELL" message.

-- Enough (555@the.shore), November 23, 1999.


Thanks all,

I am very much in favor of free expression of ideas, even, no, especially unpopular ideas. This forum has always been a bastion of the exchange of ideas and views, I would leave for good if that ended.

Spam war is another thing entirely, shoot on sight.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), November 23, 1999.


Sysops, just wanted to add my voice of support for your "zero tolerance" actions. The forum has been much more readable lately. Thank you!

Just clicked over to the link given by Chris and Stealth; Wow! 'Nuff said is right! Keep that handy as an answer to any further questions.

-- Joe (paraflyr@cybernet1.com), November 23, 1999.


We're a cult? Good grief. I'm a middle-aged writer living with her sister on the Treasure Coast of Florida. Now I'm a cultist because I think that due to Y2K systems will fail??? Very strange thought pattern on their part, I must say.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 23, 1999.

Well Mara, at least you won't have far to drive if my lawyers ever approve the so called "BITR Party"

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), November 23, 1999.

Uncle:

What puzzles me is why anyone would feel it necessary to destroy this forum?

Several of the recent posts have been from individuals whose declared intent is not to discuss issues but rather to attack and destroy this forum. They attack and then cry 'freedom of speech, freedon of speech'.

But freedom of speech doesn't mean you have a right to defecate on your neighbor's living room carpet. It doesn't mean you have the right to disrupt your local VFW meeting. You may not disrupt a Sunday worship service, a Masonic lodge meeting, or even the local knitting club. You may not terrorize your local AA chapter, nor may you harass the bowlers at your local bowling alley.

I simply don't have much sympathy for individuals who have posted some of what we've been seeing lately. I find their cries of 'freedom of speech' to be, at best, disingenuous. Some of them are obviously children who pretend to be something that they are not. Most of the others are simply social challenged adults who never quite made it to adulthood.

Regardless, this forum serves as a support group for many of the people here. I would like to see it continue to serve that function.

In short, I strongly support the unfortunate action that has been required by the sysops lately. We have the right to gather to discuss topics of mutual interest free from those who seek only to destroy this group. Those who don't like what's being discussed should go get their own forum - and not let the screen door hit them on the way out.

We come from a thousand different backgrounds, different jobs, different religeons, different philosophies, different perspectives. But the one thing that the vast majority of us share is the desire to communicate with each other in a conducive environment. Whatever their motivations, those who seek to destroy this forum deserve neither our sympathy nor our tolerance.

My suggestion would be to never edit, but simply delete. But that's just my suggestion.

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), November 23, 1999.


Great job Diane and all the other Sysops.

There is no use trying to point out the obvious WISENESS of the Sysops actions to Flint, Andy Ray, and all the others. The board's rules are written in English. There is no problem. Delete the troublemakers.

Thanks.

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), November 23, 1999.


gregg

You shouldn't lump Flint with trolls, I would be suprized if his intentions were anything other than a sane discussion (well from Flints point of view), he usually conducts himself in a gentlemanly and intelligent fashion.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), November 23, 1999.


Flints defense of the trolls puts him in the same category as the trolls. If he doesn't like it here, he's free to leave.

-- (brett@miklos.org), November 23, 1999.

brett:

I defend your right to express your opinions. I do the same for everyone. I agree with Unk -- opinions are fine, spamming is not. I oppose trolling like most here do, but I don't define opinions different from mine as trolls. Wrong, but not trolls [grin]

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 23, 1999.


Flint,

For the record, I have always enjoyed your posts. Many thought- provoking posts have come from your keyboard (grin). I have never thought of you (nor Anita Spooner) as trolls, or even overmuch pollys. I just think you two are overly optimistic. (grin again)

And to Diane and the other sysops: DELETE troll spam ON SIGHT. NO QUARTER GIVEN.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 23, 1999.


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