The events in Russia, in relation to Y2K in America...

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Yesterday Boris basically told Bill to buzz off and mind his own business when it came to Russia bombing a breakaway state. These people are terrorists it was stated. Immediately Bill back pedaled and stated that what was happening in Russia was an internal affair.

There has been some discussion on several posts here within the past year suggesting that if Y2K in the states were anything over a 6 or 7 that more than one state might try to secede from the union, if economic woes became catastropic.

I remember one thread in particular where someone was suggesting that the national guard could possibly bomb rioters with armed aircraft. So many others wrote this person off as a retired Air Force "nut".

Since Bill has passed through executive orders the ability to federalize the state national guards, why does a scernario like this seem to so many, to be so unlikely, as to be unimagineable? If Y2K were to lead to severe economic collaspe, why wouldn't a state like Texas, with all of its oil resources decide to secede, given that it already supports many other states with its oil revenues?

Why wouldn't a state like California want to secede and be self sufficient with its extended growing seasons, rather than drain its own resources to aid other states that produce little to nothing on their own, let alone give to the national economy?

So many in America mistakenly think that these kind of bad things will never happen in America. You are delusional to delude yourself into this kind of La-La land mentality. That is why personal prepardness in the form of food and water storage, and the elimination of personal debt is so vital.

Ladies and Gentlemen, bad things can and will happen in America, and very shortly, and those of us that are not prepared physically and spiritually, will be prepared to die because of our own neglect. I for one, can certainly see the United States of America become involved in its own civil war of sorts, should the economy break down. I can also see the Federal Government attempting to retain its hold on rogue states through the use of force, to include using the military and all of its resources, to force the states to stay unionized in an economic collaspe scenario.

Comments?

-- Joe Citizen (Concerned@here.now), November 18, 1999

Answers

See MOVE bombing, Philadelphia, ca. 1985. The city police dropped a bomb from some sort of aircraft and leveled a city block, if I remember correctly.

-- Scott Nearing (had_no_y2k@problem.cim), November 18, 1999.

Internal conflict is the result of internal neglect and abuse.

If Y2K causes a major widespread disaster, a lot of people in different areas of the country will remember who sold them down the river of denial.

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), November 18, 1999.


Speaking of bombs, has anyone ever heard anything more about the Air Force pilot who disappeared/crashed (earlier this year?) out west? As far as I know, the bombs the plane had been carrying were never found.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), November 18, 1999.

As I recall, Texas is one of two states that can 'legally' break with the Union. (the other is Alaska I think) It was part of them coming into the Union back in the 19th Century, and that the State Constitution of Texas has a fully functional Proviso that Allows for them to bail if a majority (90%) of the residents want to go. Don't forget, Texas is the only land locked state that was it's own County before joining the Union.

-- Dr. Moreau (Where @TheWildThings.Are), November 18, 1999.

They found the bombs, no links or nothing, but I remember hearing that about 6 Mo's ago.

Anyone else?

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), November 18, 1999.



Dr. Moreau

Texas land locked? Sir, surely you jest! Have you forgotten that we have the gulf of Mexico as out southren boundry?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), November 18, 1999.


Hi Joe,

I've thought about what you've outlined as well. These are real possibilities that cannot only happen but, of course, some have already happened here.

I wonder about the power struggles behind the closed doors of our elected government. The GIs and the DGIs in .gov and .mil who work through the very same issues discussed on boards like this. Are there internal struggles going on? Wouldn't this forum be a kind of microcosm of what life is like where "the power" resides?

Our government, as a machine, is tremendous in size. Certainly, the systems necessary to sustain the comfort, care, etc., of our population in the US are larger than any Fortune 500. The efforts needed to keep those systems going in the event of failure would be larger as well. If the government "we" depend upon to meet the needs "we" have become so dependent upon suffers through serious failures and disruptions can the country survive intact? I have no clue.

We should, realistically, consider that this may become a difficult endeavor. History is replete with many examples of powerful nations which implode in some form or fashion. The United States is not immune to this same fate. We're 200+ years old. China is 2000+ years old. We've cut our teeth, yes, but we really only started walking recently. We're bound to stumble a bit, I'm sure of it.

The real dilemma, for me, is in how the power players lead us. Who's interests will they serve? Have they served our interests well, thus far? I have hope but I remain realistic.

We aren't that far from Pakistan. We aren't that far from that "break away Soviet Republic." We might find comfort in believing "they" wouldn't do this to us and "they" wont let that happen.

Things are happening right now in this country that most don't have a clue about. People are being subjected, right now, to tactics and pain that goes unreported in our mainstream press. They're being pressured to move from their lands. They're being intimidated with low flying military aircraft and paramilitary forces. It's happening here right now but most here would think I must be insane for writing such things. I'm not. Tribal lands have minerals and resources which bring economic benefits. People who desire to live in more simple ways are being trampled by others who desire the wealth and ability to maintain "their" status quo or "make a better life for themselves."

It can happen here. It is happening here. What "group" do you fall into? What constitutes a "breakaway state"? What measures would be taken to ensure that resources remain within a federal union dependent upon them?

We're in for very interesting times.

Mike

=================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), November 18, 1999.


"I remember one thread in particular where someone was suggesting that the national guard could possibly bomb rioters with armed aircraft. So many others wrote this person off as a retired Air Force "nut". "

During the Rodney King riots, the Navy scrambled fighter jets over the area in a mock exercise. Fact.

-- Noname (nowhere@noplace.com), November 18, 1999.


Dr. Moreau:

As Shakey noted, Texas is certainly not landlocked. Think Galveston, Corpus Christi and Padre Island.

Secondly, Texas doesn't have the right to secede. It does, however, have the right to divide itself into five separate states, each a part of the Union.

Some of us Texans wish you were right, though.

-- Vic (Rdrunner@internetwork.net), November 18, 1999.


Interesting, in the 19th Century and into the 20th the trend seemed to be towards national "integration" (the unification of Germany and Italy, the violent reclamation of the American South, the creation of Yugoslavia). Now the trend seems to be towards national disintegration. The Soviet Union made no attempt to save itself as fifteen republics broke away in 1991-92. Most of the violence in Yugoslavia has been about the drawing of new borders, not preserving the old nation.

Robert Kaplan, in his book Empire Wilderness last year, suggested that the United States may face trends in the future (none related to Y2K) that cause it to drift into separate pieces.

-- Paul DiMaria (p_dimaria@hotmail.com), November 18, 1999.



Paul,

you might want to read At The Crest of The Tidal Wave by Robert Prechter. Although the primary focus is on the markets, he digs a bit into the social aspect of Elliott Wave Theory, concluding that things are inclusive on the uptrend and divisive on the downtrend. As a result, his prediction is that the downtrend following the peak in the current market is going to be an interesting one.......very divisive, much splitting apart.

-- de (delewis@XOUTinetone.net), November 18, 1999.


If Hawai'i goes, they'll never miss us! Most Americans don't think that we are part of the USA, anyway!

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), November 18, 1999.

I was living in Philadelphia during the "Move" incident. That was just sheer idiocy. Those boys weren't smart enough to hatch a plot. The whole city was a mess in almost every aspect you can think of.

-- Nancy (wellsnl@hotmail.com), November 18, 1999.

"Wouldn't this forum be a kind of microcosm of what life is like where "the power" resides?"

It is truely hilarious that you might think that.

-- Gus (y2kk@usa.net), November 18, 1999.


Gus, glad I could create a moment of hysteria for you. Now, can you comment further and enlighten me by elaborating your point of view? Thus far, I'm left with nothing from you other than a statement without content or context.

Are those people "in power" alien to the same emotions as we "normal" people?

Thanks,

Mike

=================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), November 18, 1999.



"Are those people "in power" alien to the same emotions as we "normal" people?"

.....Yes; they're inbred blue bloods. Moronic at best, diabolical at worst.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 18, 1999.


>>Why wouldn't a state like California want to secede and be self sufficient with its extended growing seasons, rather than drain its own resources to aid other states that produce little to nothing on their own, let alone give to the national economy?

Southern California relies on water pumped in from all over the southwest. Hundreds of miles of pipeline and dozens of pumping stations, most nuke powered. Read "Cadillac Desert" by Michael Reisner to understand just how fragile that link is.

No power=no water. No water=no LA

Norther California, with lots of water, farms, timber, hydro power, on the other hand...

-- in (not of) california (here@home.now), November 18, 1999.


My prediction is that Y2k or not, the US of A is headed for the trash heap of history, just like the old Soviet Union, and for many of the same reasons (corrupt leadership, too many foreign commitments, centralization of wealth and power, politicization of all aspects of life, stupid economics). Bad Y2k may hasten that process, minor Y2k may prolong the inevitable a bit, but that's where we're headed. What comes after could be better, could be worse, that's yet to be decided. But i think the cards are about to be shuffled, and it will be interesting to see how the hands are dealt and played.

-- robert waldrop (rmwj@soonernet.com), November 19, 1999.

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