I give up, the market is flying,my back is killing me (from chopping so much wood),my family,friends think I'm nuts.If Y2K is a non-event(I know its not)its divorce court.I will probably be the laughingstock till the next millenium.Spent a good amount of money on a retreat deep in the boonies...preps galore.All that so my family and friends who JDGI could have a place of security.To all of you have been getting the Y2K blues( a combination of.. what if its infomagic,and ..you crazy nut nothing will happen clinton says so)please hold on.With 43 days to go I had expected that the tide would start to turn,and the DGI would start to fall in line and help.This event will try the patience of the most fervent believer(I being one of them)till the very end.Hold on you're not alone.

-- d (wheel@ed.ty), November 18, 1999

Answers

Thank You, I needed that. I have been trying to hold out making that "padded room" reservation. I have been going it alone, no help from Family. They too think I am nuts!

-- Cake (Nutterthan@afruit.com), November 18, 1999.

Keep preparing. It's the only thing that will keep you alive.

-- (its@coming.soon), November 18, 1999.

It's alright to be laughed at. The divorce thing though is a bit much. If he/she loved you, they would understand. I too have an undergound hidden bunker with food for a year. I make the best of it by organizing fun events with my family. Hide and seek stuff in the bunker and surrounding woods. Boy, has it been fun.

Bebe

-- Bebe O'Brien (hohos@santa.com), November 18, 1999.

Hi d,

What you are doing is BUYING INSURANCE FOR YOUR LOVED ONES. And you've bought the best policy on the market. You ARE a wacko, but no more so than anyone else who takes out insurance against future events. You are a wacko with the integrity and courage and foresight to act in the best interest of those dear to you. Regardless of what happens, you have demonstrated your commitment to their well being in the most meaningful way.

If you want to verify this, try and get a reputable insurance company to cover you for Y2K related losses. They won't do it, and it's not because they think it ISN'T going to go wrong, but that they fear that it IS. All you're saying is: that's not good enough when the safety of your friends and family is involved.

You have my deepest respect and admiration. All the best,

-- Colin MacDonald (roborogerborg@yahoo.com), November 18, 1999.

Say that again? If your wife finds she does face starvation after all and sucks down your preps the "marriage is fine," but if she doesn't than it is a divorce? Dump her. She's a bad catch no one envies you for. She's only there to sponge off you as much as possible in her narcisstic existence. Frankly, she's a putrid catch. Welcome that divorce court.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), November 18, 1999.

Thanks for reaching out. If not for the GI's on this forum, I would be lost. Many is the time I have felt depressed and like "reserving the rubber room" spoken of here. I live in a town of about 70,000 and go to a Church of 450, I work for an agency that has 250-350 full and part time personel and also I have a wife and two children. I stand amazed that at this late hour I have only 1 (ONE) friend who feels there is a need to prepare for more than a BITR/TDWS. I come to this forum and a few other sites and collet information. I have spent 2-5 hours a day searching the internet and have collected about 5-6 reems of printed articles, essays and white papers to share with those I care about. No one wants to hear, discuss, change or prepare. I don't get that. I am the Benevolence Deacon at my church, I have an in with the Minister and Elders, they have not done anything to prepare as a body (that happens to be the only thing I don't like about my church). I do not have sufficient resouces to prepare the way I would like to (1-year food, water, fuel and kerosene), however, I do feel good in what I've done when I come on line and have the priviledge of reading about what other GI's are doing. I am prepared well. My wife is doing her part by not preventing me from doing what I want (as long as it doesn't take away from her entertainment/comfort) and she has even started purchasing in bulk things we use anyway (just because it saves a little money and humors me). I sure do feel lonely sometimes though, thanks to all the GI's out there. I have detached and learned to spot the DGI's, I don't let them effect my thinking. Also, I hope it is a BITR/TDWS. I can have a wonderful time camping/hiking with my family and use all the neat stuff that is now collecting dust. GOD BLESS AMERICA/THE WORLD AND SEE US ALL THROUGH THESE "INTERESTING TIMES". Steve V.

-- Steve Vaughn (billw86@hotmail.com), November 18, 1999.

d -- I second Paula's motion. If Y2K is only a BITR, you'll have a nice vacation spot -- providing your ex doesn't get that along with the other house, the car(s), and the dog.

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 18, 1999.

stay focused. you've drawn the line, now stick to it. nothing is going to change: y2k is still coming, you still have your preps, and your peers will ridicule you...until the grocery stores are empty. then they'll come looking for you.

be safe

-- RZN (robinsun@netscape.net), November 18, 1999.

On another thread in recent days, I posted some comments that focused on the importance of trying to determine why it is that the Federal government has failed to address Y2K as it should have been and should be addressed. My White Paper and my latest November comments and impact rating focus on such concerns. I try also in the writing I have been doing to give constructive recommendations concerning what the Federal role could and should be. (The latter are both at http://gwu.edu/~y2k/keypeople/gordon . Click on "Comments, Essays, and Op-ed Pieces" for the November Comments.)

Since the comments that I made on the other thread seemed to also be on point here, and since they also touched on the mental health implications of what is currently going on, I thought it might be helpful for some if I were to repeat these comments here. I have only modified them slightly. The modified version is as follows:

What I am trying to do is figure out what is happening. I am trying to figure out what could possibly account for the monumental errors in judgment that the President and those closest to him have made and are continuing to make regarding the handling of Y2K. I am trying to figure all this out in order to try to effect a change in a more positive direction.

I think that understanding where people are coming from can be crucial to understanding what if anything can be done to influence their actions and to help them through educational means to willingly adopt a more promising and responsible course of action.

In the case of the President, shedding light on these matters can also be helpful in letting him know that others can see why he has adopted the course of action that he has adopted. If the President realized that others understood what was guiding his actions, he might well change the direction that he has been moving in. If he is acting primarily out of ignorance of the seriousness of the problem, and if enough people bring this to his attention, perhaps, he will make a point to become far better informed. Hopefully he would adopt a course of action which better serve the interests of the nation.

I think that developing a clearer understanding concerning what really is happening is also important for another reason: It is not helpful for the public to be in a state of confusion. When leaders lie to the public, tell half truths to the public, or confuse the public or mislead them, on purpose or inadvertently, they disserve the public.

The creation of such confusion has implications for relationships of all kinds, including the relationship between one citizen and another.

I am sure we all know of spouses whose marriages are being torn apart by arguments over what is going on regarding Y2K and what should be done about it, with one spouse believing what the government is saying and the other spouse questioning it or seeing through it.

The relationships of friends, family members, associates on the job, etc., etc. are also being strained or damaged, some seemingly beyond repair. Some people are even doubting their own capacity to reason and understand. For many a family, Thanksgiving Day conversations with friends and family may turn quite volatile when the topic of Y2K comes up.

Increasing one's understanding concerning what is really going on can be helpful to people for other reasons as well, not least of which is the fact that deepening ones understanding can help clear up an otherwise unfathomable mystery. Clearing up a mystery can help people who have been at odds with one another reach a common understanding of a situation that we are all in, like it or not.

Clearing up a mystery can also unlock creative energies and motivation. It is amazing how freeing it can be when suddenly things begin to make sense. It can give one a renewed sense of confidence in the truth of his or her own perceptions.

There is a quote that I think sums up some of my major concerns for truthfulness and the role it can play regarding the government's approach to Y2K. The quote is from "Ethics on the Job" by Pfeiffer and Fosberg. It is as follows:

"Do not deceive other people. By deceiving them, you are creating a false world for them."

It is not helpful for people's mental health and well being for them to be offered such a false world to live in. In fact, it can be extremely debilitating. Moreover, few things are more ruinous to the future of a free and democratic people than leaders knowingly or inadvertently creating such a false world.

(end of modified comments)

The first installment of Part 6 of my White Paper addresses the consequences of the failure of the government to use common sense in addressing the threats and challenges posed by the Y2K and embedded systems crisis. I hope to address in the next installment of Part 6, some of the other factors involving flawed individual and group decisionmaking, poor reasoning, wishful thinking, and denial that are also contributing to the failure of the Federal government. These help to account for the failure of the Federal government to declare our current situation a crisis and put adequate resources into minimizing the impacts and helping the public prepare. As I pointed out in Part 5, if the Federal government is not going to do what needs to be done, it is up to the rest of the public and the private sectors to move ahead without relying on their action or their assistance.

-- Paula Gordon (pgordon@erols.com), November 18, 1999.

So glad to read this. This is the main reason I started lurking on this forum, I need to know there were other that believe as I do, to reinforce the fact that I am not crazy are alone, some of my family Sort of GI, they have been preparing, however they only think this will last 2 mos, better than nothing, I can't get them to read anymore of the white papers I have printed out or even listen to me, they say "ok, ok enough already", I guess I am obsessed, or maybe I'm just trying to find something to tell me I am wrong. Don't give up, your family will really need you.....

-- Marli (can'tget@it.duh), November 18, 1999.

First, understand that the following comments are made by a 'middle of the road' type. I have no certain proof that anything bad will happen. Nevertheless, I consider the potential risk to be real and thus have been actively preparing for about 16 months.

I am a software developer by trade and have a little less than 20 years of experience. But I want to emphasize that this fact does not make me a 'Y2K expert' (whatever that is). However, it does give me some insight into how software works and, more importantly, how software projects typically function in business and government. I've seen firsthand the unbridled and unwarranted optimism that can persist in software projects right up until the scheduled delivery date.

Does this mean that I believe all remediation will fail? No, but I would hazard to guess that some certainly will. Does this mean those failures will have a certain immediate impact on your life. No, it doesn't but the possibly exists. Accordingly, there is much that can be done to insulate ourselves from temporary disruptions. With food, water, heat and shelter, we can endure massive amounts of other problems.

Our preps have been focused on making our own personal dependencies more fault-tolerant. It has not focused on Y2K being an 'end of the world' class event.

Next, it is time for a reality check here. Look around. See any massive failures at this point? Nope, however there are certainly examples of 'local' problems and 'inconveniences'. No one has died yet from a Y2K problem - at least not that anyone can conclusively proved. I am greatly encourage by this fact though not so much so as to abandon my preps. If things still look this way be the end of March 2000, I will breathed a great sigh of relief.

One approach to this issue that has been extremely useful to Mrs. Rimmer and I is to continually asked yourself "What are consequences of the 'prepatory action' should absolutely nothing happen"? Using this 'metric', we have avoided taking any action that would dramatically hurt us should nothing happen. True, we will have spent some money that might have gone to either savings or luxury items but we are prepared to accept those consequences.

Since it sounds like you you have already made substancial progress in your preps, my advice would be to take a good, healthy break. Spend 1 week not thinking about any Y2K issues. Go do the things you would have normally done should Y2K not have entered your life. Mrs. Rimmer and I have done this several times over the past 16 months and believe it has helped us maintain perspective and avoid irreversible mistakes.

This is not the same advice I would give to someone who had made no preps - unless of course they had evaluated as much as they were going to and come to the conclusion - as most have - that Y2K poses no serious risk. While I do not personally share that conclusion, I do not expect everyone to agree with my views.

In short, Mrs. Rimmer and I treat the risk of economic and infrastructure disruption seriously and have tried to prepare ourselves accordingly. But we also acknowledge the possibility that any actual Y2K-induced problems may not affect us directly.

So we have not spent all our savings nor have we 'bugged out' - though we did spend some time developing some contingencies should we be forced out of our house.

One more thought: I do believe that the '3-day storm' analogy is more than a little bit misleading. Systemic design flaws are rarely fixed with a patch in 3 days. I think the focus on Jan 1 is also misleading (see Dale Way's essay for several reasons why). Most problems will not be visible to the public - companies are not keen on airing their dirty laundry unless they are given no choice - i.e. it affects their bottom line and shows up in the financials.

If it never shows up in the financials and critical services of a company, then the problem, however real, will have negligible impact on your life.

In the end, it not a single Y2K failure that would be catastrophic, nor even several more serious events. After all, planes fall from sky every year. People die. The rest of us go on living. I'm not attempting to be insensitive here. It is not a few serious failures that could bring about our demise, but rather a widespread loss of confidence in our social systems that would truly create the nightmare scenario...

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), November 18, 1999.

Just be patient. These are trying times.

We all need courage, patience, wisdom and a little help.

That help will be there when you need it.

Wait patiently.

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), November 18, 1999.

To Paula of GW: Paula, the president and most of the people in government cannot mentally conceive of how Y2K could be a problem. you cannot explain a concept to an individual who has no basis for understanding the concept. 98% of the public cannot conceive of the problem,so no public force will make the leaders take action. If you are part of the 2% who can create a mental picture of the problem, then act on it. But do not expect the rest to follow. Their brains are just not wired for this situation. In six weeks we will find out if 98% need more wiring, or 2% have a few wires too many. I'm in the 2% and it is lonely, but i do not expect any great recognition on anyones part until the problems if any actually occur. Then i expect anger from many at not having made them understand. For the most part i intend to pretend to be as suprised as everyone else.

-- noone (noone@none.com), November 18, 1999.

Keep at it, "d". >>I've been there, done that. I got the hell out of Sydney, New South Wales, back in August 1998 and headed for the boonies of southern Queensland, Australia. It was 1,000 Kms from my home of 20 years plus. The wife took her 60% when I sold the family home and she moved in with her mum and dad. We're not divorced yet, but I am "persona non grata" in her parent's home. They make me stand at the doorway if I visit. >>After more than a year of prepping, buying a 30-acre property and making it pretty damned self- sufficient, I completely ran out of money and headed back to the "Big Smoke" of Sydney to find work. >>It has taken me a month to find a contract (I work in PC Support), and I have been living on loans from three close friends, none of whom can really afford a spare dollar themselves but thrust it at me. >>The point is, here we are a month away from zero hour, and I am right in the heart of the worst place to be in Australia if it proves to be a baddie! >>My main hope is that once things start falling apart, (IF they do, of course), I can grab the kids and maybe the DWGI wife, and get them the heck outta there. But one thousand kays is a long way to go. I need a full tank and about 6 jerrycans of gasoline to make it. >>If it turns out to be nothing, I know I stuck to what I believed to be the best thing for my family. By March or so, I can start rebuilding my life...

-- Aussie Dave (sor@ry.nocan.do), November 18, 1999.

I got dibs on the first date with Donna "In the Sheets" LOL

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), November 18, 1999.

Better to be laughed at than to be mourned over.

-- Y2KGardener (gardens@bigisland.net), November 18, 1999.

Hang in there 'd'. My instinct tells me the late panic will make things worse in the long run.

-- a (a@a.a), November 18, 1999.

Y2k is not a religion that requires faith. It is a technical and economic challenge which will test our values and resources. You and everyone else will have to deal with whatever comes soon enough.

Take a deep breath and get ready for the holidays.

-- River Soma (riversoma@aol.com), November 18, 1999.

If I remember correctly, Noah spent a lot of time trying to convince his neighbors to get ready. They weren't convinced until the water started rising! You'll have a nice vacation cabin...when things get back to some semblance of normal... You'll not have to worry about running out to get food, or of a layoff, or whatever. Be patient and trust in the Lord.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), November 18, 1999.

Look at this way, we are all in this together and we all get a crack at it, so don't waste your time & energy in worrying about what anyone thinks, get busy and do what you have to do. On Monday morning I call home to make sure the kids are dressed properly for school and hubby says both have short sleeve shirts on, I get both kids on the phone & I hear "Mommy nothing fits." That night I go home & box up all their summer clothes, pull out the winter ones & have them try it all on. Nothing fits, I pull out the box of overalls that I've collected this past summer & they are happy. Now somewhere in my mind I remember buying lots of clothes, but I forgot where I hide them for X-Mas, so for the past few days I have looked in all my hiding places & figure I will probably find it all when they turn 20 in 12 years.

-- Judy (Dodgeball@holdon.com), November 18, 1999.

....As in the days of Noah --d, as in the days of Noah, before he went into the ark.

Mankind has not changed in all this time. The reactions are the same.

That is, until the rain begins to fall....

or our reign begins to fall.

Then as now, the reactions will be the same.

Be of good cheer and courage. Stand fast, and hold onto that which is good.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 18, 1999.

Thanks everyone, I hope the pollies understand no one becomes a doomer because they want to be.I work in the brokerage industry,rediculous the P/E ratios 5 years ago you would have been considered to be crazy to recommend any stock in this maniacal bubble market.Today if you don't you 'll loose you're job.I am still holding on to my values.I am doing what is in the best interest of my family,friends and clients.Let the chips fall where they may.

-- d (wheel@ed.ty), November 18, 1999.

--d, hold on. Waiting is the hard part. Whichever way this goes is going to be stressful. Death from a thousand cuts seems to be growing in popularity...

Y2K issues have served as a catalyst for a whole lot of us to take personal responsibility for our well being and not expect the public sector to come to our rescue. A lot of what you are doing will serve you well for any man-made or natural disaster.

If you have made significant lifestyle changes, that is likely going to be positive as well. Simplicity, preparedness, responsibility, community, all of these issues and their inherent values are a lot healthier than other choices.

Sorry about the marriage problems. Couples don't always grow and change in sync. You have made what sounds like a significant shift. There are a lot of life changing events that seem to either separate couples or weld them together. Embarking on a twelve step program, death of a child, loss of a job... If you are not pulling together in times of stress, there are probably underlying issues. Counseling couldn't hurt. It can make you feel more at peace with your path.

As you have already figured out, writing in out and getting written hugs back kinda helps. Take care.

-- Nancy (wellsnl@hotmail.com), November 18, 1999.

Best to all who follow their common sense, gut feelings, and inspiration. My friend, who is in her 70s, is the most tuned-in person I know, but when she said there would be problems, I didn't believe her. Then I began to check things out. She has no knowledge of technology, but she is very insightful. Still, I didn't believe her--had to check it out for myself. I will never regret going with what I believe. If I can earn a living next year, maybe I can make up for some of what I've spent. If not, then what I spent was worth it!

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 18, 1999.

d: -- Print this thread and give it to her. Instruct her to read it. Including my agreement with Paula to dump her sorry ass. If she doesn't (not willing to read it), dump her sorry ass. Assuming she does read it, discuss it with her. Either she shapes up or you dump her sorry ass. In a crisis situation, people are either with you or they're against you (simply by not being with you).

Yes, we may be wrong. But not being prepared to at least some extent is foolish. Foolish means that the foolish person is a fool.

Bottom line, a crisis situation tests people -- will she pass the test? Doesn't sound like it.

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 18, 1999.

I've risked it all to prepare. ALL. EVERYTHING. And I know diddly about computers. BUT, I'm smart enough to see through the BS, to read between the lies, and to understand that society is 3 days full. There's gonna be problems. Serious problems.

-- form (hee@shee.it), November 18, 1999.

---d.---don't prepare FOR y2k. don't RUN FROM y2k. Be prepared because IT'S THE COOL WAY TO BE FOR EVERYTHING. Run TOWARDS a better life. Being a "survivalist' is a lot more than y2k. it's for fires, tornadoes, hurricanes, blizzards, employment loss, accidents, family emergencies, illness, home invasions, ya--even despotic takeovers. but it's NOT just for y2k. Being self sufficient, trained, aware, stocked up is just a SUPERIOR way to live. You have it all over the couch spud, oprah worshipping head in the sand ostrich/sheeple. It's a more cost effective way to live, it can be healthier, it certainly can be stress reducing--it just is better. so, stop worrieing about y2k, and be prepared for anything that might hit TOMORROW. You'll feel better, and get less static from dgi's and dwgi's. You're not prepping for y2k, you've taken first aid classes. you're not preparing for y2k food shortages, you are being frugal by buying in bulk, and growing and canning your own health garden food. You're not gearing up for loss of electricity from y2k, you're doing your bit for the environment and your own long term pocketbook interests by getting setup to live off the grid, and eliminating a life long bill the utility companies want to send you, every single month. You're not going to rely on 911 for your protection and safety, you get the skills and tools needed to take care of you and yours sanely and responsibly. You're not gearing up for loss of communications, you have a radio "hobby". You're not building a "retreat' it's going to be your HOME. where you will live, and live large and live WELL. You vote. You are a community organizer and asset, not a beer swillin bitching machine who can only complain, but accomplishes nothing. Be proud to be a Survivalist. Y2K will come and go, but it won't be the first or last emergency you see in your life. show by quiet actions, without the underlying concerns. so what if "they" don't get it on things. we all aren't born with the same skills or vision or sense of responsibility. some people really don't care about other people except on the surface, and if they can't comprehend a situation, they get scared and embarrassed and want to ridicule. so be it. water off a ducks back. survivalists are strong. it's corny, but the boy scout motto has always made sense to me "be prepared". what's the harm? just let folks see you in this light, rather than a y2k doomer. Honey works better than vinegar with most people, and if neither works, shrug it (and them) off.that's it. pick your friends wisely. many aquaintances, very few friends is the way to go. of course....if someone REALLY gives ya grief..PISS ON 'EM! HAHAHAHAHA..that's part of being prepared, too!.... does this make any sense?

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), November 18, 1999.

Hey d,

I've talked to Peter deJager, Ed Yardeni, Howard Rubin, Keith Rhodes, Alan Simpson, Bruce Webster, Rick Cowles, Dennis Grabow, Caper Jones, and Joel Willamssen.

I read Ed Yourdon, Gary North, and daily check Westergaard 2000, Y2K Newswire, and numerous other Y2K sites.

The only conclusions I could come to based on everything I have learned were:

Have a minimum of 1 to 3 months supply of food, water, fuel, and cash.

I've prepped for a year and I've prepped for all the relatives that think I'm insane.

If everybody I've talked to is delusional and Y2K is a non-event then I guess I'll have to continue to eat food throughout 2000.

I too am confused by the bubble market. I wonder every day when the Y2K pin will pop it.

Hang in there. If ridicule is the only thing I have to face in 2000 then it will be a very good year.

-- Fractal (bobalex@silverlink.net), November 19, 1999.

FRACTAL: One possible scenario for the trigger for a BIG drop in the market is simply that smug confidence and optimism is rampant! This is a sign of a TOP, not a continuation of the bullish trend.

There is also a simple principle in the stock market that a newsletter writer named Leo Hood keeps emphasizing--stock prices maintain a VERY delicate balance from the supply/demand for them. His term "selling at the margin" refers to the fact that it takes only a very SMALL percentage swing(on the order of 0.5%) in this balance to swing stock prices WILDLY one way or the other.

Now, consider that every poll I've seen says that around 60% of people say they will "go into cash(from stocks)" sometime BEFORE Y2K. Well, that has to be in the next 5+ weeks. If that DOES happen, the % swing will be MANY PERCENT, which is a full-scale sell panic--and guess what the word for that is?

Right now, we are seeing the EXACT OPPOSITE EFFECT--THE GREATER FOOL THEORY. Everyone is in a BUYING panic, as witnessed by the parabolic rise in the Nasdaq indexes. They think that they are smarter than the next guy, AND that their timing is impeccable, that they can get out at the top, and sell to someone (a dope) for a higher price.

Well, what happens when all these "greater fools" try to get out at the same time, because they all have such impeccable timing?

-- profit of doom (doom@helltopay.ca), November 19, 1999.

A rational explanation for making Y2K preparations

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001R UO

Sincerely,
Stan Faryna

Got 14 days of preps? If not, get started now. Click here.

Click here and check out the TB2000 preparation forum.

-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), November 20, 1999.