I picked up a couple of hundred 8 gallon polystyrene trash bags at Walmart the other evening, with the intent of placing them into the evacuated and dried-out bowl of the bathroom toilets, same as a trash liner bag...when the business is done, you lift them out, seal 'em up, and carry them outside for disposal. This eliminates the need for buying a separate RV/boating type portable toilet, with all the chemicals and special t.p. The eventual problem would be treating the waste carried outside in the bags. I'm pondering a composting type of rotating bin with sawdust and leave mulch additives to oxidize and "digest" the solids, or just burying the bags in a slit trench. It needs to be said that human waste interacting with a garden or livestock's food chain is a source of potential e.coli poisoning, so due diligence is in order to provide complete bacterial digestion of the waste products before reintroducing them into the environment......Any thoughts, suggestions, or improvements, anyone?

-- Jay Urban (Jayho99@aol.com), November 18, 1999

Answers

Good idea, I remember reading a couple days ago about a book published on the topic of human Manure. I will seek the archives to find it. Check amazon.com for the subject and it should be their. I alwayse thought that human waste could not be reintroduced in to the system. But i love to learn new things. Good luck.

Blue

-- blue (bluefish@thepond.com), November 18, 1999.

The plastic bags won't breakdown.

-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), November 18, 1999.

SAwdust toilet, (or peat) and a GOOD compost system with enzyme starter. Keep the heat UP inside the composter/bin.

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), November 18, 1999.

This is from Y2K Women:

One last note,do not ever use human or canine waste in a composite pile,unless you are an expert in "hot compositing" methods.There is a book out on the subject called,The Humanure Handbook.For more information,visit: This is an excellent site for everyone who grows their own food!

This is isssue#40 April 26th,1999

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 18, 1999.

Try one more time

http://net.indra.com/~topsoil/Composite_Menue.html

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 18, 1999.

Try one more time

http://net.indra.com/~topsoil/Composite_Menu.html

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 18, 1999.

Have two thoughts: 1. Residential homes: get a burn barrel and burn it w/your weekly trash. I plan to burn at night to avoid the look & smell. 2. Go to construction sites, get those 10 gal. paint/plaster containers w/tops, dig a hole, place into hole. Before you remove the plastic from the toilet, put in your composting goodies, take outside & place in your container.

-- Judy (Dodgeball@gas.com), November 18, 1999.

What about lime? As to "plastic won't decompose," when it comes to that, getting rid of waste is the important thing. Sorry.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 18, 1999.

Such a topic is near and dear to my, well, heart. I have read a lot of ideas and considered a lot of them, and haven't completely arrived at any satisfactory conclusion. I will pass along a few things I have encountered: 1 - While the toilet bowl will be dried and drained out, I have read that you need to keep liquid in the toilet trap so that sewer gasses do not end up assauging your respective noses. In cold climates where you may not be able to heat all the rooms of the house, and the bathroom happens to be one of those rooms, some people are planning to use the non-poisonous RV antifreeze in the traps. Other ideas to keep pipes from freezing are at: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a- fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001jsx or (my first attempt at a hot link on the forum) here
2 - The composting toilets are probably a good idea. However, there can be a problem with them in colder climates as the compost piles may not get hot enough to take care of the bacteriological problems. At least that's my understanding. 3 - Considered burning, also. Not sure how burning at night will keep it out of sight and smell. ??? Fire is going to be more visible at night. And smoke drifts 24/7. 4 - Had opportunity to see the Monarch Home Video - Y2K Family Survival Guide (not sure if that's the exact title or not). Hosted by Leonard Nimoy. But toward the end they had information from Ted Wright (wrote a book about earthquake prep and survival). Covered a lot of the basics. He said (paraphrase) that the trashbag lining the toilet bowl to collect human waste advice is the worst advice that can be given. I think it has something to do with when the bags are closed off the bacteria levels just sky rocket and are a big threat to health. I think he said he couldn't believe that FEMA advises this and again that it is the worst possible thing to do from a health and safety standpoint. All this is just paraphrase and from a possibly faulty memory of having seen the video a couple months ago. He suggested chemical toilets-- but I personally don't feel that they're very practical, either. I think his book about earthquakes has a page in it about setting up alternate outdoor arrangements. 5 - There is a book out there called "The Toilet Papers" by Sim Van der Ryn that pretty much tells you everything you'd want to know (and more) about privys and such. Incidently, he states not to use lime. Instead he says to use wood ashes or dirt. There is also another book called "Cottage Water Systems" by Max Burns that covers a variety of plumbing concerns, including outhouses, composting and incinerating toilets to name a few. 6 - I'm sure there are a bunch more books and information out there on this subject. The books and the video I mentioned in this post were all available through the public library. Your public library mileage may vary. 7 - Anyone out there have any good solutions for handling greywater and dishwashing and ... ? Again, this is just to present the variety of information I've come across over the last couple months. Often paraphrased. Each person's situation is going to be different. What might be an ideal for one might present a plethora of problems for another.

-- winter wondering (winterwondring@yahoo.com), November 18, 1999.

Let's try that with better formatting. Sorry.

Such a topic is near and dear to my, well, heart. I have read a lot of ideas and considered a lot of them, and haven't completely arrived at any satisfactory conclusion. I will pass along a few things I have encountered:

1 - While the toilet bowl will be dried and drained out, I have read that you need to keep liquid in the toilet trap so that sewer gasses do not end up assauging your respective noses. In cold climates where you may not be able to heat all the rooms of the house, and the bathroom happens to be one of those rooms, some people are planning to use the non-poisonous RV antifreeze in the traps. Other ideas to keep pipes from freezing are at: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a- fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001jsx or (my first attempt at a hot link on the forum) here

2 - The composting toilets are probably a good idea. However, there can be a problem with them in colder climates as the compost piles may not get hot enough to take care of the bacteriological problems. At least that's my understanding.

3 - Considered burning, also. Not sure how burning at night will keep it out of sight and smell. ??? Fire is going to be more visible at night. And smoke drifts 24/7.

4 - Had opportunity to see the Monarch Home Video - Y2K Family Survival Guide (not sure if that's the exact title or not). Hosted by Leonard Nimoy. But toward the end they had information from Ted Wright (wrote a book about earthquake prep and survival). Covered a lot of the basics. He said (paraphrase) that the trashbag lining the toilet bowl to collect human waste advice is the worst advice that can be given. I think it has something to do with when the bags are closed off the bacteria levels just sky rocket and are a big threat to health. I think he said he couldn't believe that FEMA advises this and again that it is the worst possible thing to do from a health and safety standpoint. All this is just paraphrase and from a possibly faulty memory of having seen the video a couple months ago. He suggested chemical toilets-- but I personally don't feel that they're very practical, either. I think his book about earthquakes has a page in it about setting up alternate outdoor arrangements.

5 - There is a book out there called "The Toilet Papers" by Sim Van der Ryn that pretty much tells you everything you'd want to know (and more) about privys and such. Incidently, he states not to use lime. Instead he says to use wood ashes or dirt. There is also another book called "Cottage Water Systems" by Max Burns that covers a variety of plumbing concerns, including outhouses, composting and incinerating toilets to name a few.

6 - I'm sure there are a bunch more books and information out there on this subject. The books and the video I mentioned in this post were all available through the public library. Your public library mileage may vary.

7 - Anyone out there have any good solutions for handling greywater and dishwashing and ... ?

Again, this is just to present the variety of information I've come across over the last couple months. Often paraphrased. Each person's situation is going to be different. What might be an ideal for one might present a plethora of problems for another.



-- winter wondering (winterwondring@yahoo.com), November 18, 1999.

Mr. Turdly speaks about:

The Composting of Human Manure

-- Cherokee (Cherokee@qtmail.com), November 18, 1999.

In RVN we used oil drums cut in half with a little diesel fuel in them. (no smoking in the can) Once a week, the containers were pulled together, some more fuel added, and poof! instant weiner baking fire. An impressive blaze. Not exactly incense, but no disease problem.

Burying waste has worked for generations. After three years it can be used on the garden with no ill effects (so I have read.)

This sounds pretty gross, but dried solid waste burns well. In some poor countries it is saved for fuel. (I know, who would take the job?)

There was a suggestion some weeks ago that a bucket with sawdust would make an effective facility. There were personal testimonies to its efficacy. That one made sense to me.

got sawdust?

gene

-- gene (ekbaker@essex1.com), November 18, 1999.

What about kitty litter?

-- citygirl (citygirl@idirect.com), November 18, 1999.

I have alot of kitty litter not only for my cats,but also to use for the bucket(lined with a small trash bag) with a toilet seat.After use just add litter each time.I also have a large amount of peat moss as a backup to the litter in case I would run out of the litter.When the bucket is filled you could put the contents in a large trash barrel,but first put a couple of small holes in the plastic bag,so the gases won't build up.

I had seen a program on PBS,where a gardner said urine could be poured around trees and that it was good for them,so mabe one bucket for one purpose and another bucket for the other.

Another idea would be to rent one of the out houses they use on construction sites.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 18, 1999.

Maggie wrote:

"I had seen a program on PBS,where a gardner said urine could be poured around trees and that it was good for them,so mabe one bucket for one purpose and another bucket for the other. "

I believe in the book I mentioned above (The Toilet Papers), that was mentioned also. But I don't think it is supposed to be put on plants or trees full strength. At least not plants and trees you want to live. You'd want to doublecheck this to be sure, but I believe if you are planning to use the urine for plants and trees you are to dilute it as 5 parts water to 1 part urine.

Since water could be scarce, one might want to find a place to pour it where you don't necessarily care if the grass would happen to die.

-- winter wondering (winterwondring@yahoo.com), November 19, 1999.

I saw this booklet months ago on the net, and it specifically addresses human waste in an urban environment--BTW its free at this website-- in a nutshell, rotating "spackle bucket" sized airtight containers that are filled with peat moss, fresh dirt or untreated sawdust(fresh) i.e. from cut down trees--will cause human wastes to "ferment" to about 128 F and destroy human bacteria in a few days, thereby making the stuff safe. I haven't tried it, nor am I recommedning it, BUT the link is:

http://www.globalactionplan.org/Y2K.html

The printout (somewhere on the link) is about 65 pages long, and is the BEST Y2k prp guide I've read.

If anyone has ideas on this, or if I'm wrong, please don't think twice about setting me straight...here & in private. Thanks

-- RJ (LtPita@aol.com), November 19, 1999.

Thanks RJ,I printed the information from the web site.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 19, 1999.