Sorry. Got carried away and hit the wrong button. (in Milne's NWO this could result in severe punishment).

As I was saying, the man is derranged. He would actually watch his MOTHER and SIBLINGS suffer and maybe die, and WASH HIS HANDS of them and not have A DROP OF COMPASSION FOR THEM because they had the TEMERITY, the STUPIDITY, the NERVE, to NOT TO GET IT!!! (when Paul ordered them so to do).

Paul, you were born about 50 years too late, and in the wrong country. I feel the utmost compassion - for your family..

-- Asking (Asking@a question.com), November 07, 1999

Answers

And how many people do you watch suffer and die every day and do nothing to save them?

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 07, 1999.

I'm sure that none of us who have been unable to persuade friends and family to do anything are actually going to be there and literally watching when and if TSHTF... I'm over 5,000 miles from my parents and can only hope for the best. If they were over here, that would be a very different and difficult situation.

It seems that an awful lot of those on this forum are in this position - exactly what is one meant to do, Mr./Mrs. Asking? Sure, if you're Bill Gates, send them all 10 tons of food and supplies whether they want it or not. But many can barely afford the time or money to prep for themselves.

-- Y2KGardener (gardens@bigisland.net), November 07, 1999.

...having said that...

"I do not feel ONE iota of compassion towards a one of them. Not a drop. I will empathize with what they go through but I will not sympathize with them in the slightest. They deserve what they are about to get."

Yes, I have to agree that Mr. Milne could do with an extra compassion gene, bearing in mind it is his family he's talking about.

That said, I'm sure that many who have failed to convince friends and family have met with not only blank stares but also plenty of ridicule and even anger. With a family that size, Paul may have had a real "ear full"!

-- Y2KGardener (gardens@bigisland.net), November 07, 1999.

I'm sure Ass King will bail out his bath house friends when the time comes :)

Paul Milne is up there with Gary North - when the history books are written they will be remembered as doing "the right thing"...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 07, 1999.

Asking,

I think its great that you have so much compassion for Pauls family. Let's see, 7 siblings plus their spouses and children. That's alot of people. Its great you are able to help so many. I bet if you ask, Paul would be glad to give you their locations so that you can provide for them since he is being so mean about it. You really are a nice guy.

-- (nice@of.you), November 07, 1999.

Paul has done nothing BUT shout prepare. Have YOU ever had a child that defies you? If you have, YOU should know how deep frustration can go. When it comes to, what may be a life or death issue, about all you can do in the end is, either kidnap them and chain them up, or say screw-you. Paul can be very harse at times but, I am sssooooooo sick of the new thinking, you know, the selfesteem thing, don't hurt anyone's FEELING'S fuzzy stuff! That is EXACTLY, what has put this country in the shape, that it is in today. As for 50 years ago, you did'nt have kids shooting each other, people actually got an education, someone was home to raise the children properly, people knew how to grow a garden and can food, and the President of the US SMOKED CIGARS, unlike the one today! Any Questions?

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), November 07, 1999.

Ah yes, "Saint Paul"...T'is to laugh...This is the guy who would rather see the "decimation of the population" occur than the world continue on its present course. The mentally ill following the mentaly ill...

"Do I wish to see the present Federal governmnet completely disemboweled? Yes, absolutely"

Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), July 05, 1999.

"I think that there will be untold millions dead in the US alone."

Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), July 15, 1999

"Just about any sacrifice is worth getting rid of it (federal government) and moving BACK to a Constitutional republic with extremely limited Federal government powers. Even if it means the decimation of the population. If the population is 'content' to live under this tyranny, then they deserve to be wiped out as a result of Y2k. They do not deserve to call themselves 'Americans' because they have not the first clue what an 'American' is." -

Paul Milne, August 1, 1999.

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Hawke. We're talking close family here, like your MOTHER. There's a big difference.

Y2K Gardiner 5,000 miles or 5 yards. Does it matter? But I think you then re-read what Milne said, realised the significance of his remarks and re-posted. Right?

Cut & Paste Andy What happened CP, I thought you'd gone 0/S with your gold profits HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Now, CP, we've spoken previously of what YOUR Mum thinks of you, but that's no reason to agree with mad Milne, just to disagree with me. And I know underneath your obsession with gold, you're well... human. Almost.

Folks, re-read Milne's post on this. Think about it. These aren't strangers he's talking about, this is his mother, for xxxxx 's sake! He IS insane, no matter what other stuff he's said before that sounds good.

Look. My partner and I are prepared. Our immediate relos DGI, even though we've done what Milne has done in trying to inform them. We're angry with them, think they are stupid, blind, all that. BUT, we've got extra to cover for them. Basic stuff, life saving stuff; it doesn't cost much for a few extra bags of rice, some extra water containers etc. (and I'll have no problem charging them for it). We - I - am not trying to save the world, but if you turn your back on your immediate family, like Mad Milne is going to do, what's left? What have you become?

I've read some of Milne's posts, and he can make a lot of sense. But I really believe he's gone over the top now.This whole Y2K thing has got to him, and he's lost touch. Read what he said again, and tell me he's in the real world.

Some people, Mr Milne, believe that protection of family and friends EVEN WHEN THEY'VE MADE (BIG) MISTAKES is as important as one's own protection. Some people, Mr Mad Milne, believe that THEIR lives are as important as our own. Bit of an old fashioned concept for mad Milne, me thinks.

-- Asking (Asking@a question.com), November 07, 1999.

Ass King and partner.

he's in the real world

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 07, 1999.

Is it possible that some people expect/or want others to do things for them and the only way to get them to prepare for themselves (when they can easily do so) is to make it clear there won't be any hand-outs?

When my son wanted to drop out of school at 17, I said, fine, but you have to get a job and contribute one-third of your wages to household expenses. He did. Found out it wasn't so easy, went back to school, got his GED, and then went to vo-tech and has been supporting himself ever since. Do you think he would have done that if I'd let him stay home and watch TV all day?

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), November 07, 1999.

The general content of this thread is appalling. It is the height of hubris to comment so negatively on a man's relationship with his family when one knows next to nothing about the situation. Has anyone considered that Mr. Milne may have been deeply hurt by his family's rejection of his offers? Is it possible that he is merely doing what so many on this forum seem to be expert in doing - letting off a little steam?

It seems obvious that Mr. Milne loves his family very, very much. He has seen a danger, and acted upon it with the courage of his convictions. He has provided well for those that are with him now. The fact that some of his family choose to ignore his offers and warnings, and the fact that he is quite upset regarding this rejection, should not be held against him. It is his perogative.

-- PKM (.@...), November 07, 1999.

The region above 26 thousand feet on mount Everest is called the "Death Zone" by climbers. The reason it is called that is that the air is so thin (1/3) of sea level O2 content, that any mistakes that are made are most always fatal to the person making the mistake. At this level should someone stumble or have a problem, the others are forced to leave them to die in order to save themselves. They simply can't help those who stumble.

Don't judge Milne, judge yourself dickweed.

-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Andy,

Do you ever contribute anything but "cutting and pasting?" How is your gold doing, King Midas?

-- (Giving @n answer.com), November 07, 1999.

"Andy,

Do you ever contribute anything but "cutting and pasting?" How is your gold doing, King Midas?

-- (Giving @n answer.com), November 07, 1999."

My GOLD is doing just fine :o). Glad to be out of the markets prior to metdown.

But what would cause this market to break down, especially given today's rampant optimism on Wall Street?

"Y2kthe so-called Millennium Bug". If the market is an over-inflated bubble, Y2k is a pin.

It endangers the market in several ways. First, it threatens profits, and this market is increasingly sensitive to profits falling short of expectations. Recently IBM plummeted from 107 to 91 in one day, just because the company said that 4th quarter earnings would '...fall short of expectations' due to 'Y2k considerations.' We will see more and more such incidents as 1999 draws to a close and Y2k fears become reality next year. The best information available tells us that between 10% and 20% of all major American corporations will not complete their Y2k repairs by January.

If you look at Americas smaller businesses (under $100 million in sales), more than 30 % havent even begun the two-to-three year process of Y2k remediation, and they are the real engine that does most of Americas business. They also tend to be the poorest capitalized companies, which makes them the most vulnerable to Y2k problems.

Also, importing and exporting companies will be badly hurt if they do business in countries that are not even close to being Y2k compliant, and the international, money-center banks derive half of their profits abroad. Countries like Germany, Italy and Japan are in serious Y2k trouble in their public and private sectors, and countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Nigeria, Iran and Venezuela that send us almost half our oil are a long way from being ready for Y2k.

There are more factorstoo many to mentionthat add even more uncertainty to Americas short-term corporate future. A Dow 2000 is almost inevitable, unless God takes mercy on us and works a miracle of Biblical proportions, parting the Y2k sea, but I see no reason to believe our behavior merits such Divine Intervention.

Gold at $2,000?

Gold will be a major destination for money fleeing the world's equity markets and its' endangered currencies and banks. Historically, that has always been the case. But the gold market is so tiny that even a small portion of the worlds safety-seeking money will have a disproportionate impact on the gold price. All the gold ever mined could be melted into a cube less than 90-feet square.

To get this in perspective, the market value of all the gold stocks and all the tradable gold bullion in the world adds up to less than half the market capitalization of Exxon!

Gold will not be the only beneficiary of the expected money flows, but it is the most predictable and leveraged.

The gold-mining stocks will be even more profitable than gold bullion, as will silver. The big gold producers like Newmont Gold ( ). Barrick( ) and Homestake ( ), will move first, the smaller producers next, then the exploration companies with proven reserves (which will also be profitable takeover candidates), then even the holes in the ground surrounded by liars will be profitable.

Laboriously typed out, genuinely NOT cut and pasted, by Andy. The Bottom Line?

Get out of the stock market, including equity mutual funds, especially the stocks that make up the bulk of the NASDAQ and New York markets, and do it now! If you stay in the market, you are a passionate believer in The Bigger Fool Theory of investing-- even if you are a fool and over-pay, a bigger fool will come along and buy it from you at a nice profit.

Buy bullion-type gold coins from an established coin dealer (we recommend Investment Rarities, choosing coins that have the smallest premium over the gold spot price. Buy the stocks of the biggest gold producers, or any of the gold mutual funds.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 07, 1999.

Y2K Pro. Please do not try to make Mr. Milne look bad by attributing quotes that he actually made to Mr. Milne. Instead let's attribute the quotes of a great humanitarian to Mr. Milne. Perhaps Mother Theresa, Billy Graham, or that black lady on Touched By An Angel.

-- Butt Nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), November 07, 1999.

Andy,

Once again, shut the fuck up. 'Nuff said.

As far as Paul Milne goes I wouldn't be surprised that that SOB didn't even HAVE a heart, literally. This is the same guy who said he is going to put LAND MINES all over his property, and snipe anyone who comes within a half mile of his place.

The man is SICK SICK SICK SICK!!

He considers himself a patriot, but he is just a meglomaniacal, insecure little brat who probably has a severe Hitler complex. I MEAN JUST LISTEN to his drivel! This is his FAMILY! Why would there EVER be a reason to write them off and wash his hands of them? Because they don't "GI" and they hurt his little insecure feelings? What an asshead!

I hope the FBI has been keeping a very close watch on Old Ronald McMilne and his armed Pig Compound. With a tip wire here and toe- tapper there...here a BANG there a BANG everywhere a BANG BANG!

Go to Hell you self serving waste of human life.

-- (that's@private.info), November 07, 1999.

FLAME AWAY: BRAVO....APPLAUSE.....DO THE WAVE....(left-wing wackos suck)

Y2K PRO: Thank you vaaary much. I love every one of those Milne quotes. Now if we could only get him to run for President.

Andy: ROTFLMAO

Asking: I'd like to offer the addresses and phone numbers of the majority of our family members, as well. I feel I should warn you, however, that my sister hogs the bathroom and steals from other people's closets. Go for it..........moron.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), November 07, 1999.

What Will Continue needs is a time machine to warp her back into the year 1100 AD. I'm sure she would fit in much better if the majority of the population still had hairy knuckles and a low brow.

-- (that's@private.info), November 07, 1999.

I hope Anita doesn't mind that I'm posting this here... I thouhgt it was the most succinct description of Ronald McMilne yet.

http://stand77.com/wwwboard/messages/3668.html

"Paul Milne RIGHT ON BUDDY - I COULDN'T HAVE PUT IT BETTER MYSELF. Just who do these people think they are? I mean, your mother, and siblings? LET THEM DIE, UNTHINKING IDIOTS. They disagree with you, refuse to listen to you, chose their path - they deserve DEATH and nothing less. DON'T GIVE THEM A THING, PAUL, WHEN THINGS GET TOUGH. Not a drop of water, a scrap of food. NOTHING. Watch them suffer (especially your mother, what did she ever do for you?) maybe die slowly in front of you. ENJOY. Remember, YOU are right, and THEY are wrong. It will be YOUR justification, Paul. Oh Paul, I admire you so much. Your strength & conviction; your lack of compasssion gives me goose bumps of envy. Will you be our new leader, Paul,? Lead us onwards to a new world, a world where we can bury our stupid, DWTGI mothers and brothers and sisters in the same pit. ZEIG HEIL, OH GREAT LEADER!!!!!!!! "

-- (anon@anon.com), November 07, 1999.

Let me clue you in ANON, you asshole. GI's won't need to abandon stupid relatives. Our Government has ALREADY done that. They've chosen President Prick's 'word' over ours.....you know, the same PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES who has a f*ing Y2K bug Beanie Baby collection and doesn't use a calculator because he CLAIMS to be technologically challenged???????? You dumb f*ck.

Do us all a favor and swallow yourself whole, ass first.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), November 07, 1999.

what was that in the Bible?

"Judge not lest ye be Judged?"

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone?"

or was it "Those in glass houses should not throw hand grenades?" Something to that affect. Why jump all over Paul? If'n hes got the stones to turn his own mother away, then so be it. Why should it bother you? Are you expecting to try and join Paul? Good luck!! It takes all kinds to make a world. I for one, look forward to turning away my mocking DWGI demon-in-laws. Told the wife flat out, I'm NOT jepordizing our well being or our children's well being because they EXPECT us to prepare for this and have a seat for them? F*ck NO!!

Let Paul alone y'all... If he can face himself in the morning after this thing is over, then more power to him...

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan@Yahoo.com), November 07, 1999.

And BTW, the majority of the population DOES have hairy knuckles and low brows. They borrow money to gamble in the stock market and vote for who they're told to. Luckily, they've managed to evolve shorter arms so that their brief-cases don't drag in the dirt.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), November 07, 1999.

Sorry Billy Boy that doesn't fly. The only triumph evil has is that good men stand by and do nothing. Think what the world would be like if we had just continued to appease Hitler throughout the 40's and 50's. Yeah sure, if he can live with himself in the morning then so be it....ya right. Yes, Milne has quite a following already. Time to nip that budding lunatic in his infancy.

-- (anon@anon.com), November 07, 1999.

I have been a ship captain. If someone fell over the side, and it didn't endanger the ship or the crew on board, I would bend every effort to save that person. However, I never had the right to endanger the lives of others to save one person or even many people, even if the persons drowning were my own family. My officers and crew were instructed to behave in the same way if I was the one who fell over the side.

It is obvious to me that some of you psalm singers have never been in a situation where you had to make life or death decisions. It's all well and good to be sweet and loving, but not when someone might die as a result of your misplaced humanitarianism.

So I understand Milne. If Y2k goes down as badly as InfoMagic, Cory Hamasaki, and D.D Read say, it'll be a pretty harsh world out there and those who still cling to the gentle niceties of western civilization will be in deep yogurt.

-- Elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), November 07, 1999.

My Dear Asking...

Sir you are one pious self appointed judgimental S.O.B. How dare you set up there on your santimonious throne and pass down judgement up on any one. And if your sence of appointed out rage is so provoked...Why then are you not not frothing at the mouth when you see the TV's news coverage of the starving children in Africa.

I'll further your outrage sir. I have one half brother, and two half sisters. One a millionaire and the other two aren't bad off either. And they and my mother dearest can all drink out of Milne's rusty hub cap for all I care... And you sir are a fool...To judge some one when you have no the slightest conception of why that position was taken. I'll tell you why I took that position. 35 years ago I walked in the front door (after spending some time in the hospital, a little something to do with the S.E. Asian war games). And the first words out of my doped up half sister's mouth was " Hello baby killer"!

I walked out the front door, and it was 30 years untill I saw any of that bunch again... So stick you self santimonious opinion where the sun don't shine old buddy! If your sence of out rage is that easily distrubed, you won't make the final cut in the up coming Darwinian exercise in population control.

I apologize once more to the folks / readers of this forum. I have once more blown my top, it would seem that I could contain my ire at the dumb opinionated fumble butts, but some how "asking", and his pet burger flipping aire dale y2k pro, managed to set off my sence of "outrage"....See A$$ H. other people have that sence also, it is not an exclusive trait reserved for persons of double diget I.Q.'s such as you and your half witted cousin y2k pro.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a-Bunker@forty.feet), November 07, 1999.

Will,

I was cleaning out my garage yesterday and I came up with a wonderful device that I thought I had thrown out in the 1960's. Back then I was too stoned and wasted too realize it's potential, but now that I've recovered it I can see that it has some use. It's called the Virtual Helmet, and it was patented about fifty years ago by a man named Kannut F. Thinkonmyown. What you do is slap this helmet on your head (it's adjustable for people like you who have really big heads). Then you stick in a cartridge and hit the PLAY button. It will then send signals to your cerebral cortex, stimulating your audio and visual nerve centers. Of course back then they could only play 8-track cartridges that showed the viewer an alter-reality of what was going on in Vietnam. You know, like how we should have been there,how we were kicking ass, and how President Johnson was making all the right decisions.

I'm going to modify it so you can play a DVD of Braveheart endlessly. Apparently that is where your mind is all the time anyway so this might be just the ticket out of reality that you've been looking for. I'll also modify it so it feeds you intravenously so you'l never have to take it off. This way you can relive your favorite era in the history of man over and over and over again. Especailly the gory fight scenes.

(I'll make sure to program it with Milne starring as Braveheart, won't that be nice?)

Just give me your home address and I'll box it up and ship it out pronto, since I don't want you to have to spend one more second in this horrible world of modern technology that obviously is so upsetting to you.

-- (anon@anon.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul Milne, family man.

-- (inyerbunker@bunky.bunk), November 07, 1999.

Just goes to show you the old adage is true....You can pick your friends but you can't pick your relatives.

If anyone is in the market, I've got a pack of worthless ones that I'll give away free to a good or bad home...doesn't matter to me.

I think Milne is a smart guy, no one can take you down faster than a worthless relative.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), November 07, 1999.

Pollys, if there is nothing to worry bout, then don't worry bout Milne's family.

I doubt that he would turn them away if they showed up with their hands out, but if he does, it's between him and God.

Are you here to help, or just to ridicule?

-- live&let-live (bill@tinfoil.com), November 07, 1999.

There's this idea that somehow "Mother" is a sacred being. I think that this comes down to us from the worship of the Virgin. There's this expectation that one's relationship with "Mother" is meant to be some sort of unconditional relationship in which one must accept anything that "Mother" does because of her sacredness.

"Mother" is a human being, like any other, and one's relationship with "Mother" is subject to the same dynamics as one's relationship with anyone else. (Granted, plus a few extra things.) I've known people who were practically ruined by their relationships with "Mother", and only through long years of work on themselves have they been able to get past the damage that "Mother" caused them because of her own psychological problems. I've known people who had to sever all ties with "Mother" because even though they were all grown up and taking care of business, "Mother" felt she had an entitlement to treat them anyway she wanted. I've known grown people who WERE ruined by "Mother" and never did anything to stop or change it.

Our collective relationship with "Mother" can be viewed as manifested in the way our society is shaped. Look around you. How many 45 year old babies do you see? How many grown up people do you know who would rather sit around playing with their toys than pursue more serious forms of mental engagement? How many of the nasty comments made on this forum are from physically grown up adults who were stunted in their psychological and spiritual growth because "Mother (and "Father") did not properly give them the tools that they needed to be true adult people?

I think it may be time to rethink the concept of "Mother".

Now, as far as anyone commenting on another person's (like Milne) relationship with "Mother" or any other family member -- that is simply inappropriate and totally uncalled for. For some anonymous person to come to a public place and say that someone is deranged for however they approach a familial relationship -- well, look in the damn mirror, pal.

For the record, and I don't mind saying this, I have a terrific relationship with my own mother. Sure there are things that she does that bug the hell out me, there are things that I do that bug the hell out of her, that's to be expected. But, she's one of my best friends, and I value our relationship. But, that's not because she is a sacred being to be loved unconditionally, but because she is wise and has good judgement and ACTS like a friend, not a dominator or entitled being.

When I pointed out the possibilities of Y2K to my immediate family members in the spring of 1998, I was extremely lucky that they all got it right away, and were willing to take some appropriate steps. (Dad was the slowest on the uptake, and still has some resistance, Mom was the quickest learn and has done some amazing things.) I feel blessed that I didn't have to deal with the kinds of harassment that other people on the forum have described having to deal with from family members. I can imagine that there is nothing in the world that hurts more than this.

But, again, it's totally inappropriate for others to judge this when people describe how they would react when "Mother" or any other family member treats them like shit and then expects to be taken care of.

You know the old saying, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

-- (pshannon@inch.com), November 07, 1999.

Will Continue while in her normal mental fog posted "And BTW, the majority of the population DOES have hairy knuckles and low brows. They borrow money to gamble in the stock market and vote for who they're told to. Luckily, they've managed to evolve shorter arms so that their brief-cases don't drag in the dirt."

Well jimminy crickets girl, what do ya expect from the masses. You ain't exactly the brightest crayon in the box are 'ya?

-- The Wit Some People Display Here (lack@of.it), November 07, 1999.

To y2k Gardener,

Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem. if you had read the last two lines of my answer you would have been the wiser. I said that if they do not ACT like family, they are NOT family. They have been warned repeatedly and have not only refused to do anything but have mocked and ridiculed. I have explained, begged, pleaded, cajoled, and all to no avail. They STAUNCHLY REFUSE to lift a finger. I will NOT jeopardize the rest of my family for their sake because they become sorry after the fact. That is not the least bit lacking in compassion. Compassion suffered their ridicule for months on end.

THAT is not how FAMILY responds and as such, they are not regarded as family.

To Y2K pro,

The present government is a gross perversion of the Constitution. The poeple delegated specific limited authority to the Federal Government . it has wildly wildly wildly overstepped those bounds. It has become a legislative tyranny insinuating itself into every facet of our individual lives where it has no right to be. I know that you do not understand that. Our constituion provided that the governemnt would protect our GOD GIVEN liberties. Forgive me for being jealous of those gifts of God and wanting to have them defended. If the government becomes a tyranny, it needs to be destroyed. I am sure that you would disagree with Thomas Jefferson on that point, too. If the majority of those people support that tyranny, then they need to go too. If they support a tyranny, even in ignorance, that is no excuse. Still, they are supporters of tyranny.

And I am not in the least bit ashamed to war against them as supporters of tyranny, as well.

to 'asking'

Because you are reading comprehension impaired, i will repaet for you....

They do not BEHAVE like family. You say they are not strangers....Most assuredly they are. Perhaps you think a blood relationship is more important than the actions of individuals. I don't. They are NOT, as you put it, 'my immediate family', because they have not ACTED like immediate family. This is what you do not understand.

I am more than willing to help INNOCENT people. I will not help people who were repeatedly warned and refused to lift a finger. They have jeopardized others. They have behaved in a socially irresponsible fashion. They place a burden on society and others to care for them because they REFUSE to do it for themselves.

If you are so concerned about them, then YOU take care of them. Let's see how much of your children's food these leeches will consume until you get tired of it and realized that YOU are in danger because they INTENTIONALLY refused to help or prepare.

To PKM,

I am not merely 'hurt' by their actions. I have a thicker skin than that. people are responsible for their actions. They have acted in a grossly irresponsible manner. A manner which would jeopardize others if they were allowed to benefit after they refused to participate in preparations. I can not jeopardize those who contributed by providing for those who laughed and mocked and did nothing.

To 'thats private'

You are a damnable liar. All you morons claim that those who would defend themselves on their own property minding their own business are doing something wrong. And again, reading comprehension is not your strong point as you go off on the 'But they're family' crap again. They are NOT family if they do not behave like family. I do not write them off because they merely disagree. I write them off becuase they refuse to prepare. I write them off because I will not jeopardize other people to help them after they have done nothing.

And to pour some light on your own special kind of sickness, you mention that you hope the FBNI is watching me....... for what crime asshole? Have I harmed anyone at all. Have I recommended harming anyone? No. But sick bastards like you have no problem with invoking government police organizations on private citizens minding their own business, harming no-one, on their own property.

To anon,

You are an amazing butthead. It never fails to amaze me how people feel such heart rending 'compasion' towards those who REFUSE to prepare. They are the 'real' victims, right?

I said that I would turn them away, and I meant it. They will have JEOPARDIZED the safety of other people by their actions. They would be given three days food and kicked loose.

What you and most unthinking morons believe, is that those who do not prepare, those who REFUSE to prepare, those who RIDICULE and MOCK preparation, DESERVE to be cared for after they find that they are in trouble. You think that they have some magical right to jeopardize other people because they REFUSED to prepare. You think that calling yourself 'mother' or 'brother' or 'sister' is a magic key after your behavior ENDANGERS other people.

You think that you can endanger your 'family' and then have them roll over.

It is not a matter of mere disagreement on the outcome. It is a matter of participating in the preparations that they ridiculed, derided and mocked. Its all very 'funny' now, but they will not think it is so funny in a few more months.

People do NOT have the right to participate in preparations that they ridiculed AFTER they find out that they are wrong. People do NOT have the right to be taken care of when they REFUSED to take care of themselves. People do NOT have the right to endanger others when they find out that they screwed up big time.

They have been warned for over two years. They were begged. They were pleaded with. They refused to lift a finger.

This is not a lack of 'compassion'. The 'compassion' suffered their ridicule. The 'compassion' continued to warn them as they mocked and scoffed and called names. The 'compassion' waded through all that and strove to convince them to prepare. The 'compassion' perservered and perservered until it was hopeless.

Now, my 'compassion' is directed towards those who have made sacrifices to prepare. My 'compassion' is towards those who gave of themselves to work hard towards being ready.

My 'compassion' no longer includes those who intend to inflict jeopardy on others who did their work for them.

As to your comment about 'good men'.....'who do nothing'. Yes, I am sure that you think that those who DO NOTHING are good men. I am sure that you think that those who do nothing to prepare are 'good men'.

All the 'good men and good women' in my family make more money than I do with the exception of maybe one out of the eight. Only one out of the seven brothers and sisters has five kids likie me. He refuses to do anything. Yet, i have prepared for my children in a way that my exceedingly limited resources have allowed.

You have a hell of a lot of nerve to suggest that, I, the LEAST able to make preparations, in my family, is to support the rest of them when they have REFUSED to lift a finger.

You are a sanctimoniuos sonafabitch.

When any one of you on this forum can explain why an individual who has strained to take care of his own family, who has begged the rest to do something, should be castigated because he will not jeopardize his children for those who not only refused to prepare but who mocked, derided and ridiculed preparation.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul-- Right on! You're my kinda guy!

-- (Saddam@my.funkybunker), November 07, 1999.

Amen Paul... I agree.... I wish I could prevent what I see coming though...

-- Crono (Crono@timesend.com), November 07, 1999.

I've always wondered, 'what sort of person would follow the ravings of a Jim Jomes, Hitler or a Pol Pot. Seems that we have found the answer.

Milne said: "If the government becomes a tyranny, it needs to be destroyed. I am sure that you would disagree with Thomas Jefferson on that point, too. If the majority of those people support that tyranny, then they need to go too."

Since the vast amount of Americans DO support our system, then you are talking about the extermination of hundreds of millions of your fellow human beings - simply because you disagree with them. Tell us Paul, how would you wish that we be done away with? Gas chambers? Virus? Nulear detonations? Slow and painful or quick and merciful?

I'm sure your bum-buddies "a" and Will Continue Not Thinking" will have some ideas...

I don't know about you all, but I'm right tired of the world as we know it....Can't wait for the sound of them cosmic keys jingling and that big voice boomin' across the skies, "Gentlemen....its closin' time." and the Spirit andmthe bride say, "Come, Lord Jesus!"

n Jay Urban (Jayho99@aol.com), November 01, 1999

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Well, I have to say I agreewith Paul. Unfortunately, I am not as "mean" as he is i guess becasue i have decided to try to prepare for my younger brother, his wife and her family even though only the brother has done anything. The wife has his nuts in her purse, so even though he get's it, he won't mention it to her for fear of upsetting her. I simply asked if her whole family starving, would be upsetting, or even if they were able to make it out here if they lost everything and she felt guilty for the rest of her life for doing nothin... would those things be 'upsetting?' oh well, he didn't think that was very funny. but, on the other hand I have-- check that -- HAD two friends both who have small children, who found out about y2k back in 98 and who, having done absolutely nothing, have made ominous comments about coming out to 'my place' well, they will be most unpleasantly surprised that is all I can say. So I ask myself the question why does my sister in law's family get preferential treatment? #1 the dad is a vietnam vet, he can shoot and kill (should that become necessary, god wiling it won't) and #2 they believe 'god will save them' which, while being stupid is not as bad as "hey jere's the one who would prepare for this.. let's go to his house!!" and #3 they are important to my brother's well being and are thus important to me. I also think that despite what paul says about hiscompassion goign to help those who have prepared... i think that we all, should we be in the position willhelp DWGI family before poor ignorant strangers, simply because in a high stress situation you may not know what strangers will do and will probably assume theworst about them and Out they go!!

"people get the history they deserve." Charles Degaulle

(now think about the balls it took to say that considering what happened to the french during WWII. Think about it this way: The english elected Chamberlain so they dserved London and Coventry, the Jews stuck their heads in teh sand, so they deserved the holocaust the germans attacked Russia so they deserved Stalingrad, They also bombed Rotterdam, so they deserved Dresden and Hamburg. The Russians trusted Hitler so they deserved 27 million dead. The French had a stupid war plan so they deservedthe occupation, the poles trusted the West so they deserved what they got as well. The Japanese raped nanking, so they deserved Hiroshima & Nagasaki etc etc)

-- Jeremiah (braponspdetroit@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Yup Paul, I think that you are 100% right! I feel the same way you do and do not care who thinks that I am a selfish jerk. The good Lord says to pepare for times of need and if you don't, your have lost the faith. I am the laughing stock of my family, I am a jerk, I am nuts, I am all the things that is being said about you. I could care less. I grew up hungry as a child and the only one that cared was my beloved Grandma. Mother, father, could give a care, us 5 children were always hungry, never had enough food and decent clothes, anly an alcoholic father that beat us and tore the house up and my mother allowed it. One time the youngest boy was so hungry , 7 years old, when my grandma brought food to the house, he vomited terrible, he hadn't eaten much in so long. Who felt sorry for him? Not neighbors. STay the fight, I'm with

-- Janet Marsh (JMarsh4185@aol.com), November 07, 1999.

Uh (one more time)...

Paul Milne has rarely been known for his high level of compassion. Other things... but NOT that.

However on that thread, there are many going through the agnst of trying to do the right thing for those without eyes to see or ears to hear. Or not. Its a dilemma.

And a sign of the times. (And the results of the Koskinen, et. al., spin cycle).

Truly sad.

Diane

See caring responses on the thread...

My Last Effort to Help My Family Get It Bombs....

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001ilo

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 07, 1999.

MAN did I ever open up a can of worms with THAT thread. FWIW, I would not turn away my mom, dad, brothers, or sister. IF they could get here, 45 miles from their house. Like I mentioned on the thread mentioned above by Diane, if things are bad enough that they are coming here to ask for food and possibly shelter, I doubt they would get here. For some reason, I envision everyone getting in their car in a panic and trying to go ANYWHERE. Ever seen Dallas traffic on a good day? There's like one car for almost every single adult. Sheesh.

And also in the FWIW category, I STILL do not understand, and no one has been able to explain, if things are NOT going to be bad, WHY are all the "pollys" so concerned about it that they spend inordinate amounts of time arguing with so-called doomers about what they would do if TSHTF? I mean, seriously, if things are going to be A-OK, guys, then why aren't you out at some happy hour downing a few brewskis or watching a good football game on TV? Maybe out shopping for new gizmos and doo-dads? Yukking it up? Why if nothing is going to happen, does this CONCERN you so much? Your words and actions do not mesh. I mean, c'mon, you can't say it is b/c you are trying to keep the "paranoid fruitcakes" from taking over the world or something. Probably only 10 (and that is a generous estimate) of the regular posters to this board would be considered as having opinions way outside the norm (and since when is that a crime?) and the rest of us are just normal schmos who happen to have their eyes open and who happen to not believe everything the talking heads on TV tell us. THAT is so terrible? Yeah, us 200 people or so are REALLY gonna cause a panic in the streets, I'm telling ya. Sheesh.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 07, 1999.

HA!

A guy who plants trip wires and land mines on his property calling me an SOB, very ironic.

Hay Mr. McMilne,

Did you know that the USA has outlawed such devices? Or maybe you were just full of shit when you were talking about your home preparations. Either way you have committed a crime. One against the law, the other against morality. That is why the FBI ought to be on your case. IF JUST ONE OF THOSE LITTLE "SURPRISES" HURTS SOMEONE THEN YOU CAN SPEND THE REST OF YOUR SANCTIMONIOUS LIFE IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT WITH THREE HOMOSEXUAL HELL'S ANGELS.

But yeah, I guess you're right. If it takes a decimation of humans to make your world a little bit easier to live in then so be it. (Sarcasm). "...Constitutional republic with extremely limited Federal government powers. Even if it means the decimation of the population..." -Milne.

So what part of the population Should be decimated you freak? The part that "deserves" it?

Where does that sound familiar? Oh yeah I think I overheard it on a biography of Adolph Hitler, and how a certain part of the population of the world is "deserving" of what they are getting.

Considering that everything up to this point about Y2K is hypothetical Paul, you sure have shown your true colors about your opinion of the rest of the world.

-- (anon@anon.com), November 07, 1999.

Maybe our concern has to do with the "panickers". End-Of-the-Worlders have a pre-ordained need to panick others. Calm rationale thought followed by facts and perspective assuages those that might panic. Doomers and Tinfoils are a lost cause. Like Paul "Pot" Milne for example...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

To 'anon' and Y2K pro, idiots both...

first of all, i do not know why I respond to your stupidity. i guess I just like to trash f*cking idiots...

HA! A guy who plants trip wires and land mines on his property calling me an SOB, very ironic.

( I have no 'trip wires' or 'land mines' on my property. However, if it helps your case, go ahead and rebuke me for anyhting that you can make up. rebuke me for having nuclear weapons. rebuke me for having napalm. rebuke me for all the things I don't have.)

Hay Mr. McMilne,

Did you know that the USA has outlawed such devices? Or maybe you were just full of shit when you were talking about your home preparations.

( You may now cite the post where I stated that i had land mines and trip wires. However, if it got that bad, and society did fall apart and people DID attack, then IWOULD erect such things. Mostly to maim attacking people like you.)

Either way you have committed a crime.

( excuse me asshole. You sate that i have committed a crime. Well, then, come on out to my little farm and find such objects. Then, when you can't put your hands at your sides and let me punch you in the face for being the liar that you are.)

One against the law, the other against morality. That is why the FBI ought to be on your case. IF JUST ONE OF THOSE LITTLE "SURPRISES" HURTS SOMEONE THEN YOU CAN SPEND THE REST OF YOUR SANCTIMONIOUS LIFE IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT WITH THREE HOMOSEXUAL HELL'S ANGELS.

But yeah, I guess you're right. If it takes a decimation of humans to make your world a little bit easier to live in then so be it. (Sarcasm). "...Constitutional republic with extremely limited Federal government powers. Even if it means the decimation of the population..." -Milne.

(Yes, that is what i said and I meant it. If the majority of the population wants tyranny, then they are my enemy. The EXPRESS purpose of our constituion was to set up a bi-cameral legislature to PREVENT the tyranny from the majority. apparently you have no idea of the foundations of this country. You have no idea that democracy was despised by the founders. You elevate the opinion of the mjaority if they WANT tyranny.)

So what part of the population Should be decimated you freak? The part that "deserves" it?

(The entire lot of them that support tyranny.)

Where does that sound familiar? Oh yeah I think I overheard it on a biography of Adolph Hitler, and how a certain part of the population of the world is "deserving" of what they are getting.

( you did not. But that will not stop you from making things up to suit your malice.)

Considering that everything up to this point about Y2K is hypothetical Paul, you sure have shown your true colors about your opinion of the rest of the world.

( If the rest of the world supports tyranny, then I stand against them. All of them. Numbers make no difference. What you do not understand is that it makes no difference at all if every person in this country, but me 'votes' for something. They will have the result of their vote, no doubt. But it is tyranny no less.

What you do not understand is that we are endowed with GOD_GIVEN rights. It makes no difference that the 'majority' wishes to take them away. You think that if the 'majority' wishes something then that is a good thing. It is not, necesarily.

If the majority voted that all 65 year olds were to be euthanized, it would make no difference just because the majority voted so. And I would attack any attempt to do so, even if I was 'jailed' as an enemy of the state. That state would have no just authority even if it WAS supported by a majority. You have no clue that we do NOt live in a democracy. We live in what was supposed to be a constitutional republic. It has been PERVERTED into functioning as a democracy surreptitiously. And that is intrinsically evil. It is intrinsically imimical to liberty and it is the fertile ground of tyrants to sow their perversity.

Things like this are beyond your feeble comprehension, your ability to grasp.)

-- (anon@anon.com), November 07, 1999.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

LOL!!!!!!

MY GOD!

I swear as I stood in my kitchen making a chicken sandwich I just knew you were going to do that Paul, I just fucking knew it!

You know that I am not going to:

# 1.) Sort through a thousand posts to cite that quote. YOU know you said , and I know you said it. What the rest of TB2K thinks, or the rest of the world thinks is irrelevant. WE know the truth.

# 2.) Go to your farm and search your premises for land mines. I would be too scared that I would get a leg blown off trying to satisfy my curiosity.

You want to know what is even funnier? You telling me that I DID NOT hear Adolph Hitler say those things about the Jews. He said they deserved it because they were destroying the world for the rest of the Aryan Nation. I am not making that up to suit my case.

And as far as the rest of the world supporting tyranny, well, I guess that is your opinion. I seem to be doing okay, and everyone I know. And I even know some black guys downtown that work three jobs, smoke pot, and drink like fish who seem to be pretty content.

The USA is not a tryanny. Yes there are some FUBAR laws, and the income taxe is too high, and there are some jerks in Washington who shouldn't be there.

But you forget that the USA has spent up millions of young men's lives fighting the REAL tyranny. Remember a little number called World War One? Or how about the Sequel?

Give me a break. Like I said before, it doesn't matter what they think. (i.e. Diane, Will, Flint, Y2K Pro, KOS, Andy, Asking, Buttnugget, CPR, Paul Davis, MPC, Old Git, Arnie Rimmer, Big Dog, etc, etc, etc.!!!)

I know what you said, and you know what you said. WE are the only ones that matter in this discussion. Deny it all you want you pompous fuck... you're not fooling me.

-- (anon@anon.com), November 07, 1999.

To anon.

You are a manifest liar. I have given you the oppotunity to prove your case and you have slunk away with your head between your legs screeching "I know you said it! I know you said it!'

You are a liar.

You say I have 'landmines' and such nonsense. And I have given you, offered you, the opportnity to prove otherwise. 'You are not only a liar but a gutless one as well'.

next....

You say that the US is 'not' a tyranny. This only serves to underscore your blindness. It serves to show that you are utterly ignorant of the basics of our Consitution. It underscores that you would not know liberty if it bit you on the ass.

You believe that we do not live under a tyranny because you state you know several black guys who drink and smoke pot and are content to do so. If you believe that being 'content' to inebriate yourself negates that we live in a tyranny, then you are even more of an idiot than I had formerly appreciated.

Perhaps you might try to find out what 'bread and circuses means'.

When your mommy gets home tell her to put out some cookies and milk for you.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

Sorry man, this ain't 1776, and you're not George Washington.

But while I waiting for your reply I visited Alan Greenspun's photo gallery and I came across something I thought reminded me of the way you are acting. When it comes to America it's obvious you think it's a tyranny, and those who support it should be "decimated".

When the Nazis arrested the Communists,

I said nothing; after all, I was not a Communist.

When they locked up the Social Democrats,

I said nothing; after all, I was not a Social Democrat.

When they arrested the trade unionists,

I said nothing; after all, I was not a trade unionist.

When they arrested the Jews,

I said nothing; after all, I was not a Jew.

When they arrested me, there was no longer anyone who could protest.

So Paul... who is first on your list of tyrannts to be decimated?

(There just ain't nothing new under the sun when it comes to Milne's view of the world).

You can feel free to answer or no, because I grow weary of your personae, and must retire to the outside world before your sliminess begins to rub off.

Good day.

-- (anon@anon.com), November 07, 1999.

The definition of "compassion" has become so bastardized by those that want to "feel" like they've done some good...that they've become enablers.

Personal responsibility is no longer needed because the "compassionate" will have made sure to provide extra for others. Why is it now understood that if you do not do for those that are unwilling to do for themselves, you are somehow a selfish tyrant?

This is ridiculous. I'm with Paul on this one. You cannot save someone that doesn't want to be saved or is too willfully ignorant to prepare for themselves.

It is not the duty of a Christian, Moslem, Jew, or caring American to provide for those that refuse to heed warnings. ESPECIALLY if it may endanger your own stability in the short OR long term. To do so is to enable slack behavior. We've become a nation of whiners and enablers, each screaming for their share and comforts at the expense of those shamed into providing for them to avoid a label.

You wouldn't continue giving your kid a cash allowance if he was blowing the money on crack, would you? If you kept warning your daughter about "sleeping around", and warned her about getting pregnant with no husband or means of support...are you going to raise her illegitimate baby for her while she galavants from one bed to another and parties all-night, just because you "feel" it's the right thing to do? Sadly for many, the answer is yes, and what this does is deepen the harmful habits we cause one another because they will have you to continually bail them out.

I'm not going to share or provide for those, even in my own family that have laughed in my face and ignored all the pleading and warning. If they would not contribute when times were good towards their own welfare, I'll be damned if I provide for theirs at the expense of my own children.

But now that is what will be expected of us, and the pollies are the first to scream bloody-murder at our perceived "selfish heartlessness".

It is not heartless to give warning and expect action to be taken to ensure their own welfare. Selfishness would be to not say a word and care for only yourself. Compassion is giving a warning and encouraging preparation. I have done that, and Paul has done that, so where's the selfishness?

I will not feed their own sloth is what it boils down to. They have been warned, they have ignored it, and they have been told there is no place for them here if we have hardship in this land. They have heartily agreed...for now.

This is not heartless selfishness on our part.

It is foolishness on theirs.

Shall we feed and nurture the foolishness? According to the idiots posting here in rally-cry against Mr. Milne, I'd have to say yes they do.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 07, 1999.

Paul,

You gave them an impeccable answer. I knew before I read their responses that all they (the attackers) would come up with would be more personal attacks and out-of context quotes from the past. And that is exactly what they did.

This simply serves to highlight the fact that they really cannot intellectually address your position. In fact, no one can, other than you, because only you know the full context.

I wish you continued good luck in your efforts, Paul.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 07, 1999.

INVAR:

There seem to be two issues here. Can we help everyone, and how should we feel about it?

Clearly, it's impossible to help everyone. And yes, people make mistakes. They are shortsighted, the can't read the signs, they make bad guesses, whatever. We can't live other people's lives for them.

But should we be gleeful at their suffering? Should we gloat? Should we be insensitive to the predicaments others get themselves into. If we are capable of helping at all, should we refuse to do so on the vengeful grounds that we were laughed at?

I recognize that Milne can't take in everybody. This logistical limitation is independent of the mean spirit and impoverished soul he brags about. And I doubt he really feels that way either. He's just oversimplifying as usual, so as not to confuse the truly simpleminded who comprise his target audience.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

Flint,

Where in anything I've ever posted gave you the suggestion I was "gleeful" at suffering because they would not heed?

I've endured ridicule and persecution trying to warn family precisely because I DON'T want to see their suffering.

I also have never read anything Milne posted that would indicate he is waiting with bated breath to enjoy hearing the screams and cries of a suffering people. What I absorb out his posts is utter frustration, anger and resignment to the calamity he believes is about to engulf us all.

Some say it is unChristian to laugh at those whom have ignored counsel and warning, and though I will not be laughing at the suffering of millions who could have prepared, God Himself WILL be laughing at us.

Proverbs 1:24-28. Pretty sobering.

But then again, by today's culture...God is an Extremist.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 07, 1999.

To asking:

A hypothetical:

You have room for one, and only one, more. Do you give the space to Adolf Hitler, who is your brother, or Mother Theresa, your unrelated friend?

I take it from your attacks, the answer would unhesitatingly be the former.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 07, 1999.

In answer to flint, the unmitigated liar......

There seem to be two issues here. Can we help everyone, and how should we feel about it?

(There is NOT two issues. The issue is SOLEY about helping those who REFUSED to prepare. Those who MOCKED and RIDICULED that preparation and THEN show up later blubbering and crying. Those who would not take one iota of time to try to comprehend. Those who NOW jeopardize others because they wantonly and callously disregared the facts and evidence. THAT is the issue. Do not water it down and make so much emotional pap out of it.)

Clearly, it's impossible to help everyone. And yes, people make mistakes. They are shortsighted, the can't read the signs, they make bad guesses, whatever. We can't live other people's lives for them.

( No, this is NOT merely making a mistake. When one makes a mistake they do not go around ridiculing, mocking and deriding. )

But should we be gleeful at their suffering?

( This is where you show your true lying vile persona. Who has shown the LEAST bit of 'glee' in this. You are an umitgated moron flint. You are a distortionist of the finest caliber. No one in this thread has exhibited the slightest 'glee' at what befalls anyone. For you to attribute 'glee,' where none has been exhibited, makes your motives exceedingly plain. )

Should we gloat?

( Once again, who is 'gloating', you moron? NO ONE is gloating.)

Should we be insensitive to the predicaments others get themselves into.

( Yes, to the predicaments of innocents. Not, necesarily, to the self induced and intentional predicaments of mockers and scoffers. Tell me mr f*cking sensitivity, when the shit hits the fan and multitudes want to deplete your supply and jeopardize your family, we will see just how far your 'sensitivity' goes. )

If we are capable of helping at all, should we refuse to do so on the vengeful grounds that we were laughed at?

( Again, you categorically mistate my position. I said that they mocked and laughed and scoffed. Did i say that that was the reason that i will not provide for them? No. I said that I will not provide for them BECAUSE they have no right to particpate in the sacrifices of others. They have no right to participate when they had full knowledge and refused to prepare. They have no right to place in jeopardy, other people, because THEY made inappropriate decisions INTENTIONALLY. Their poor behavior does not constitute an emergency response on my part.

For you to attribute vengeance is beyond the pale. You are a liar. A damnable liar. You place no value on accountability and resonsibility. 'Vengeance' did not go back to them, time after time and suffer their derision. 'hatefulness' did not repaetedly try to reason with them. "glee and gloating" did not attempt to convince them. Indeed, you are a vile person flint, to even suggest such a thing.)

I recognize that Milne can't take in everybody. This logistical limitation is independent of the mean spirit and impoverished soul he brags about.

( Once again, you lvile lying perverse sack of shit, there is nothing 'impoverished' providing for your children and denying those who REFUSED to lift one finger a place at the table. There was no 'bragging'. But vile malicious scum like you bent upon distortion continue to render up such crapola.)

And I doubt he really feels that way either. He's just oversimplifying as usual, so as not to confuse the truly simpleminded who comprise his target audience.

( The only simpleminded individual here is you, flint. Once again, you have attributed bad motives to someone you do not even know. You have attributed poverty of the spirit and meaness to one who has gone above board to help the rest of them.. What this does, is serve to underscore your veniality, your incessant need to villify that which you do not understand.

People are responsible for their actions. They are responsible for the consequences of their decisions. It is one thing to aid an innocent. It is another, altogehter. to jeopardize those for whom you have responsibility for the sake of those who refused to lift a finger, for those who INTENTIONALLY, WILINGLY, WANTONLY, mocked the very idea of any preparation at all.

As I said before, family is NOT merely your blood relations. Family are those people who ACT like family, those who BEHAVE like family. No one who was 'family' could mock, vilify, ridicule and deride the care that another has taken to warn them.

Only a person of your ilk could portay that one as 'gleeful' at another's misfortune, as if that 'misfortune' was just a complete accident that they could not have easily done something about. Once again, you have sunken to new lows of pathos in your never ending attempt to not only find fault, but, to even CREATE fault where none exists..)

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul Milne

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

Well, here we have what I called meanness of spirit. Since this is a vague term, a good, solid demonstration will help. And lo! we have one right handy:

"unmitigated liar...your true lying vile persona...You are an umitgated moron...You are a distortionist...you moron...mr f*cking sensitivity...You are a liar. A damnable liar...you are a vile person...you vile lying perverse sack of shit...vile malicious scum like you...The only simpleminded individual here is you...underscore your veniality, your incessant need to villify...you have sunken to new lows"

Yup, a great way to address the issue. Interestingly, we also have this little gem buried in the frothing diatribe:

"When one makes a mistake they do not go around ridiculing, mocking and deriding."

Hilarious! I guess there is one notable exception to this principle. Why doesn't this apply to you also, Mr. "hasn't got one right yet" Milne? Heal thine own spirit first.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

Flint:

I'm really surprised at you. You mean you're not able to get beneath Milne's "colorful" language, even name-calling, to grasp the underlying principle? You're kidding, right?

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 07, 1999.

Yeah flint, when you lie your ass off and someone takes exception to your intentional distortions, THEY exhibit meaness of spirit.

"We have always been at war with EastAsia. We have never been at war with EastAsia'

You attributed 'glee' at misfortune where none existed. You made out that I would be 'happy' to see innocent people come to harm.

Truly, you are one of the most pathetic peope I have ever run across.

I suppose that you would argue that one who turns in a fire alarm is a 'complainer'.

You lie your butt of about another person and then turn around and say that they are 'mean' to you.

You are one sick, twisted sonafabitch.

Too bad you simply created another in a long line of distortions instead of addressing any of the points exactly as I addressed you, point for point. That is because I can take up the issue, flint-boy. I don't just sit back and lie and expect it to pass muster.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

Maybe Mommy is overbearing and Daddy is a loud mouth. There's a good reason why people leave the nest, marry, have children and make a life for themselves. Do you ever wonder why your siblings turned out the way that they did? Perhaps on drugs, in and out of prison, on welfare, lazy, or rich and rubs your nose in it. Turkey lurkey day is coming up and it's one of the holidays that police hate! Family gets together and arguments turn into violence and well, I am sure some of you have experienced it. I can't imagine taking in my family, I think I would rather shoot myself than to have to put up with ungrateful, loud mouthed, overbearing relatives. The BIG WHITE BUS is thatta way.....

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), November 07, 1999.

Eve, Thank you for your earlier comments . To adress your latest,

flint is a distorter and a liar. He can not take up the issue and answer point by point. He lies about folks and then calls them the 'mean ones' when they take him apart for his lies.

He does not want to understand the situation, he wants to find an excuse to vilify even if he has to make up that excuse.

He accused me of being 'gleeful' at a misfortune. Ask yourself, was there ONE iota of 'glee' in any of that?

Of course not. It was intentionally and maliciously created out of thin air. Not a mistake. Not an error, an intentional lie and deception.

But, it will help you to understand the depth of flint's depravity and malice.

Best regards,

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

eve:

I addressed the issues clearly, I thought. We can't help everyone, whether we'd like to or not.

If you look over Paul's last few posts and remove all the personal attacks, what's left? If nothing much is left at all, it seems reasonable to conclude that the attacks are the issue. Have I called Paul any names? Maybe that's part of the issue as well.

I wish Paul a long and happy life. If calling names makes him happy, I do not envy him his spirit or his soul.

There are many things to occupy our time and attention, and many good people preoccupied with other concerns. I will personally regret it if any of these people come to harm.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

I addressed the issues clearly, I thought. We can't help everyone, whether we'd like to or not.

( Don't make me laugh. you did not address a SINGLE issue. But, please, don't stop backpeddling on my account.)

If you look over Paul's last few posts and remove all the personal attacks, what's left? If nothing much is left at all, it seems reasonable to conclude that the attacks are the issue. Have I called Paul any names?

( No, you lied through your malicious teeth. You santimoniusly sit on high claiming you did not call 'names' while at the same time you out-and-out fabricated a bald faced lie that someone else was 'gleeful' about the misfortune of another and 'gloating' about it. and that is far far far worse.)

Maybe that's part of the issue as well.

I wish Paul a long and happy life. If calling names makes him happy, I do not envy him his spirit or his soul.

( flint, when you attack someone and fabricate malicious lies do not think you will not be called on it. Do not think you can sit back and whine about someone else being 'mean' to you after you have intentionally distorted what they said to suit your malice.)

There are many things to occupy our time and attention, and many good people preoccupied with other concerns. I will personally regret it if any of these people come to harm.

( But you do not regret lying and malicious slander. And you make no apology for it. In fact you refuse to even recognize that you did so and then call someone else 'mean' when your malice is exposed. You squeal with disdain when one person says that they will not aid those who refused to aid themselves and then turn around and lie, slander and distort. Bilge rats have more honesty and decency than you flint-child. Bilge rats.)

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

Oh, and one more response to flint's bilious spew...

"If you look over Paul's last few posts and remove all the personal attacks, what's left? If nothing much is left at all, it seems reasonable to conclude that the attacks are the issue. "

If you will notice my responses were in retaliation to unmitigated personal attacks. I did not begin any attack at all.

Did flint-child object to a SINGLE one of those personal attacks? Nope. Not a one.

The silence was deafening.

But, now, that he is 'attacked' for his outrageous lies, he whines and moans and simpers about being attacked. Boo Hooo Hooo. Bad Paul is attacking me.

Liars deserve to be attacked. Attacked more visciously than they did originally, so as to induce them not to lie again.

You are a liar flint-child, an unrepentant liar whing about being mistreated so.

Kinda like a mass murderer who complians that he is not being treated nicely by the prison guards.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

"If you look over Paul's last few posts and remove all the personal attacks, what's left? If nothing much is left at all, it seems reasonable to conclude that the attacks are the issue."

Ummmmmm Flint, you might want to read the following:

"There is NOT two issues. The issue is SOLEY about helping those who REFUSED to prepare. Those who MOCKED and RIDICULED that preparation and THEN show up later blubbering and crying. Those who would not take one iota of time to try to comprehend. Those who NOW jeopardize others because they wantonly and callously disregared the facts and evidence. THAT is the issue. Do not water it down and make so much emotional pap out of it."

"When one makes a mistake they do not go around ridiculing, mocking and deriding. "

"No one in this thread has exhibited the slightest 'glee' at what befalls anyone. For you to attribute 'glee,' where none has been exhibited, makes your motives exceedingly plain..."

"Should we be insensitive to the predicaments others get themselves into.--- ( Yes, to the predicaments of innocents. Not, necesarily, to the self induced and intentional predicaments of mockers and scoffers."

"Again, you categorically mistate my position. I said that they mocked and laughed and scoffed. Did i say that that was the reason that i will not provide for them? No. I said that I will not provide for them BECAUSE they have no right to particpate in the sacrifices of others. They have no right to participate when they had full knowledge and refused to prepare. They have no right to place in jeopardy, other people, because THEY made inappropriate decisions INTENTIONALLY. Their poor behavior does not constitute an emergency response on my part. "

"...Once again, you have attributed bad motives to someone you do not even know. You have attributed poverty of the spirit and meaness to one who has gone above board to help the rest of them.. What this does, is serve to underscore your veniality, your incessant need to villify that which you do not understand. "

"People are responsible for their actions. They are responsible for the consequences of their decisions. It is one thing to aid an innocent. It is another, altogehter. to jeopardize those for whom you have responsibility for the sake of those who refused to lift a finger, for those who INTENTIONALLY, WILINGLY, WANTONLY, mocked the very idea of any preparation at all.

As I said before, family is NOT merely your blood relations. Family are those people who ACT like family, those who BEHAVE like family. No one who was 'family' could mock, vilify, ridicule and deride the care that another has taken to warn them. "

"Too bad you simply created another in a long line of distortions instead of addressing any of the points exactly as I addressed you, point for point. That is because I can take up the issue, flint-boy. I don't just sit back and lie and expect it to pass muster."

There. All the "personal attacks" have been removed. What is left? A discussion about responsibility, preparation, and dealing with others whom have scoffed at the warnings Paul has attempted to get them to heed. The rest is pointing out your attempts to sidetrack the issue with an assumptive distortion to create YOUR OWN ISSUE about "meaness of spirit". Paul is correct, you did not address ONE POINT he made about those whom have disregarded warnings. You instead created an argument out of thin air that this belief is evidence that some are "gleeful" and "gloatful" of suffering.

I think you might want to work on your reading comprehension skills. There was much meat in what Paul said, even with the "personal attacks" removed. The attacks were never the issue, responsibility and preparations for unwilling family was the issue.

You either missed the point, or intentionally redefined the point which is what professional politicians and lawyers do.

You wouldn't be a Lawyer now would you Flint?

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 07, 1999.

My Dear Mr. Flint

Sir it would appear that you are once more tryig to inject "your" conception as to what another person has said...The sort of thing you did some little while back (and you wondered why I became angry enough to come out of left feild to crawl on your case about it).

And here you are at it again, only I fear you are the one who is under gunned (so to speak). Paul Milne has perhaps one of the sharpest minds in this forum (or csy2k). And no qualms about calling a bore a boar.

At some point you will have to take a stance, you are loosing credibilty with both issues, the Pollies don't believe you and the doomers don't either...You are not pragmatic in your observations, only deceitful to yourself. I would heartly suggest that you discard the volume "Phycology 101" and go right to "Reality; A Practical aplication". A subject you are unfamiluar with...But one which will draw you up short in the near future.

Mean while...Keep it up...You're FUNNY! The egg dripping down your one laid back ear makes you the funniest pup of the litter, not the smartest, but the funniest.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), November 07, 1999.

INVAR:

Here are some direct quotes from Milne, straight out of deja news:

"It would give me the greatest of pleasure to watch the look on your face when the excortiating white hot panic sears your remaining two synapses on the day you find out how grotesquely mistaken you were."

"If an attacker is killed, then I am GLAD that not only did I kill him, but that he no longer has an opportunity to kill anyone else in his misanthropic adventures."

Now, just what would you consider "glee"? How about "greatest of pleasure"? Close enough? How about "GLAD" to kill (emphasis Milne's)? Does that count? If not, who's being the lawyer here anyway?

Personally, I would find no great pleasure watching anyone suffer, nor would I be GLAD to kill, whatever the necessity. Milne's denials contradict his own clear published statements. And he calls *me* a liar for pointing this out? Maybe when Milne uses words they mean whatever he wants them to mean? He can run and he can weasel, but thanks to deja news he can't hide.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

Flint:

So you seem to understand that one can't provide for everyone.

Further you can't seem to come up with any specific "glee" on the part of Paul over others' misfortunes. And even if you did, you'd get into questions of whether it was the result of an emotional response that was unrepresentative, etc.

I assume you also understand that no one but Paul knows his context; therefore for you (or anyone, including me) to assume you know the right thing for him to do here is nothing more than frivolous conjecture of the most superficial kind, and really serves no useful purpose.

So, leave the guy alone. I see him as a decent man who's trying to make the best of a difficult situation that no one else here knows anything about.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 07, 1999.

I keep swearing I will quit posting to this place, but then you guys reach new heights and I can't resist.

So I just want to know one thing. Since this business cuts both ways, and the PREP side is FAR more likely to be wrong than the Y2K as no big deal side(about 100,000 to 1 odds, IMHO), are you going to hang around for the post mortem? Or will you run back to survivalist.nuts.com, post about how cyberterrorists and secret germ warfare attacks are being kept from the public, and keep right on with the prepping?

And how about that PILE of apologies some of you are owing? Apologies to a TON of net citizens, to begin with, to your siblings, parents, even apologies to the senators and congresspersons you have sent nasty emails and letters to. Going to put that off till tomorrow (and tomorrow never comes)?

Why do I have this funny little idea that this board is going to be down to about 1 post a day by April 15? And it isn't going to be because the power is out or the Net isn't working.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), November 07, 1999.

I wonder if Paul will at least shoot his DGI family in the head? Or will the price of not listening to him be a slow death through starvation? Oooops, "not one iota of compassion", guess that means dying of thirst.

I wonder if he will sit at the table, eating a nice roasted chicken, while poking Mom in the ribs with a stick, "Ya still with us ma? If only you had listened. Sorry your death is taking so long, but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do."

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), November 07, 1999.

eve:

1) I came up with two specific examples of glee. Direct quotes. Probably you posted before this newly modified software allowed you to see them.

2) Sorry, but I regard your second argument as preposterous. If you believe that, then it applies to anything *anyone* writes here, does it not? Since nobody knows the "context" of what we write, trying to interpret what we say is "frivolous conjecture"? Really? Or does this become frivolous conjecture ONLY when someone you agree with says really stupid things and contradicts himself and behaves like a foul infant?

Although your fears are well founded, they should not require you to associate yourself with those who make your fears look irrational. I'm more optimistic than many here, but I have no desire to fabricate outrageous and sophistic excuses to support some of our pollytrolls. They are boors, and thoughtless. And I cannot defend thoughtless boors, regardless of what eventually happens.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

in answer to maore of flint-child's tiresome perversions......

-------------------------------

Here are some direct quotes from Milne, straight out of deja news:

"It would give me the greatest of pleasure to watch the look on your face when the excortiating white hot panic sears your remaining two synapses on the day you find out how grotesquely mistaken you were."

( flint, it will give me great pleasure to see those who mocked, ridiculed and otherwise made miserable, those who tried to warn people. Notice, I did NOT say I wished them to be harmed. I only said i wish i could see the look on their face. Only a pervert like you could translate that into WISHING that they were harmed. Their OWN actions will cause that. )

"If an attacker is killed, then I am GLAD that not only did I kill him, but that he no longer has an opportunity to kill anyone else in his misanthropic adventures."

( An attacker is a rabid dog bent upon harming other people. He has forfeited his right to live when he attempots to take the life of others. I would be well pleased to defend my family against this type of miscreant and glad that I prevented him from harming others. But, all that is AFTER the fact. i do not wish to be in that position, but I will not shrink form the responsibility. I am sorry if your delicate sensibilites are ruffled. It would also be helpfull if you did not merely rip phrases here and there willy nilly out of context. Any asshole can do that. And you are the master.)

Now, just what would you consider "glee"?

( The glee that you mentioned above was NOT in reference to these other posts bu to this thread. Again, you engage in distortion by trying to 'widen' your comments to fit anything that I have written at any time. You are a major-league liar and distortionist. Then explain, why I should not be happy to defend my family if the occassion were forced upon me, minding my own busines on my own propewrty, by a vicious attacker? You got a problem with that

How about "greatest of pleasure"? Close enough? How about "GLAD" to kill (emphasis Milne's)? Does that count? If not, who's being the lawyer here anyway?

( How about ripping things out of context? How about distortion? How about twisting another's words to suit your malice?)

Personally, I would find no great pleasure watching anyone suffer, nor would I be GLAD to kill, whatever the necessity.

( You ABBREVIATED what I said, when you applied it to yourself. How CONVENIENT. I did not say I would be gla dto kill.....period. I said I would be GLAD to kill an attacker. But, when you apply it to yourself, you leave OUT the 'attacker part, in oreder to further your twisted, demented distortion. Further, you ADD 'suffer'. You say that you would not like to see someone suffer as if *I* would. We have responsibilites. I am glad to have the opportunity to carry them out, even if they are unplaesant. I know that you are a timid, shrinking violet, quaking over having to act like a man if the case arises. I am not. And I will not mince words with a pussy like you.)

Milne's denials contradict his own clear published statements.

( I deny nothing. I make plain that you distort and rip out of context that which suits your venial, malicious intent. It is wholly your purpose to make out that i am glad to kill 'in general. You are a vile liar. You make out that I would relish seeing another suffer. You are a vile liar. But, that is plain for all to see.)

And he calls *me* a liar for pointing this out?

(You have pointed out nothing. You HAVE fabricated much. You have distorted much. you have twisted much. But, you are caught out for ther twisting weasling liar that you are.)

Maybe when Milne uses words they mean whatever he wants them to mean? He can run and he can weasel, but thanks to deja news he can't hide.

( I have nothing to hide from. Even under the barrage of you malicious lies, I remain standing. You have nowhere to hide flint. You are a liar in the spotlight. The glare of your own malice is blinding you. Quickly, now, before it is too late go find a 'hireling' to stand up and defend your family while you are too effeminate, too ashamed, too delicate of sensibility, too timid, too weak, to do so yourself.)

(and notice, once again, I answer you point for point, and not merely slinging transient bullshit from the four corners of your depraved mind, desparately dragging in 'out of context crap' to salvage my sinking hulk.)

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

in answer to maore of flint-child's tiresome perversions......

-------------------------------

Here are some direct quotes from Milne, straight out of deja news:

"It would give me the greatest of pleasure to watch the look on your face when the excortiating white hot panic sears your remaining two synapses on the day you find out how grotesquely mistaken you were."

( flint, it will give me great pleasure to see those who mocked, ridiculed and otherwise made miserable, those who tried to warn people. Notice, I did NOT say I wished them to be harmed. I only said i wish i could see the look on their face. Only a pervert like you could translate that into WISHING that they were harmed. Their OWN actions will cause that. )

"If an attacker is killed, then I am GLAD that not only did I kill him, but that he no longer has an opportunity to kill anyone else in his misanthropic adventures."

( An attacker is a rabid dog bent upon harming other people. He has forfeited his right to live when he attempots to take the life of others. I would be well pleased to defend my family against this type of miscreant and glad that I prevented him from harming others. But, all that is AFTER the fact. i do not wish to be in that position, but I will not shrink form the responsibility. I am sorry if your delicate sensibilites are ruffled. It would also be helpfull if you did not merely rip phrases here and there willy nilly out of context. Any asshole can do that. And you are the master.)

Now, just what would you consider "glee"?

( The glee that you mentioned above was NOT in reference to these other posts bu to this thread. Again, you engage in distortion by trying to 'widen' your comments to fit anything that I have written at any time. You are a major-league liar and distortionist. Then explain, why I should not be happy to defend my family if the occassion were forced upon me, minding my own busines on my own propewrty, by a vicious attacker? You got a problem with that

How about "greatest of pleasure"? Close enough? How about "GLAD" to kill (emphasis Milne's)? Does that count? If not, who's being the lawyer here anyway?

( How about ripping things out of context? How about distortion? How about twisting another's words to suit your malice?)

Personally, I would find no great pleasure watching anyone suffer, nor would I be GLAD to kill, whatever the necessity.

( You ABBREVIATED what I said, when you applied it to yourself. How CONVENIENT. I did not say I would be gla dto kill.....period. I said I would be GLAD to kill an attacker. But, when you apply it to yourself, you leave OUT the 'attacker part, in oreder to further your twisted, demented distortion. Further, you ADD 'suffer'. You say that you would not like to see someone suffer as if *I* would. We have responsibilites. I am glad to have the opportunity to carry them out, even if they are unplaesant. I know that you are a timid, shrinking violet, quaking over having to act like a man if the case arises. I am not. And I will not mince words with a pussy like you.)

Milne's denials contradict his own clear published statements.

( I deny nothing. I make plain that you distort and rip out of context that which suits your venial, malicious intent. It is wholly your purpose to make out that i am glad to kill 'in general. You are a vile liar. You make out that I would relish seeing another suffer. You are a vile liar. But, that is plain for all to see.)

And he calls *me* a liar for pointing this out?

(You have pointed out nothing. You HAVE fabricated much. You have distorted much. you have twisted much. But, you are caught out for ther twisting weasling liar that you are.)

Maybe when Milne uses words they mean whatever he wants them to mean? He can run and he can weasel, but thanks to deja news he can't hide.

( I have nothing to hide from. Even under the barrage of you malicious lies, I remain standing. You have nowhere to hide flint. You are a liar in the spotlight. The glare of your own malice is blinding you. Quickly, now, before it is too late go find a 'hireling' to stand up and defend your family while you are too effeminate, too ashamed, too delicate of sensibility, too timid, too weak, to do so yourself.)

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

Oh, and flint-child, did I mention too spineless, too pasty-faced, too frail, too trembling, too quavering, too wilting, too namby- pamby, too adolecent, too sashaying, too limp- wristed, too knock- kneed, too twitching with fear and loathing to do so yourself. I stand corrected.

Paul Milne

"If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

OK, Paul. I quote and you weasel. Keep drooling and spewing, you're only digging yourself in deeper. You should have quit when you weren't quite so far behind, and those who weren't aware of what you wrote would remain as ignorant as you'd prefer.

[Footnote to eve: Sorry. But I *did* try to warn you.]

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

Oh, and one more thing flint-child, you wanna pick a fight? You came to the wrong place once again, woosy.

Imagine a verbal pitbull tenaciuosly tearing out your throat. One bite for every lie you make up. That's me. So, keep it up, limp-dick.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

What 'weasel' flint-child? I stand behind everything that I wrote. What I will not put up with is your out of contrext distorted twisting.

Like I said before, limp-dick, you came to the wrong place to pick a fight with me.

Behind? LOL LOL LOL LOL

Don't make me laugh, flint-child. I can hardly be 'behind' on lies and malicious distortion.

I wrote what I wrote and it remains in context and not as you have maliciously ripped it out. Any moron can do that. An no need to apologize to Eve except for your own words.

I am perfectly willing to let her make up her own mind as to which of us stands upright and which of us crawls on our belly telling lies.

My 'style' is one thing, your 'content' is another, flint-child.

As a matter of fact, ...Eve, if you are still reading, I would solicit your opinion.. Thanks

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

Trying to argue rationally with a raging psychotic like Paul "Pot" Milne is a wasted exercise. He's the sort of person who slows down at accident sites hoping he'll see some blood. While it is instructive and illuminating to see what sort of individual populates the white wing of this country, it is his followers that are the most baffling.

Surely, his indifference to the death of his family members might be a clue to his dysfunction. If not, how about his desire for a mass holocaust of your friends and neighbors, should his version of democracy not be followed. Do any of you lot not see what sort of horrific monster you idolize? Apparently not. Instead we hear, "right on Paul" and "Paul Milne for President". That an out of work telemarketer should elicit this level of hero-worship sends shivers to my soul.

Fortunately, his flock is small, his influence insignificant and his reputation (amongst even his most fervent brownshirts) will soon be in tatters. I could never imagine meeting another human being who most exemplifies pure unadulterated evil.

If the government becomes a tyranny, it needs to be destroyed. If the majority of those people support that tyranny, then they need to go too.

Milne, November 7,, 1999.

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Flint,

Again you illustrate the MASTERY you possess to create a context out of context, and sidetrack an argument's main points. You still have not addressed Paul's point about individual responsibility, and whether it is moral or not to prepare for those who refuse to heed warnings....even if they're family.

You created a separate argument about being 'gleeful' and 'gloating' over watching those that would not heed warnings when there was nothing in his post even remotely suggesting your charge.

And here you are again, trying to give validity to your off-topic point distraction in this thread by posting statements Paul made on another board that I have never read until now. You are truly trained and polished!

But I know what you're doing, and it's getting aggrivating.

Paul's point is that the "blood" will be on his neglectful family's own heads should there be trouble, and it will be well deserved. Likewise in my family circle.

What you are doing is equating that point with being gleeful at the suffering they will endure, and then you post those quotes above to illustrate your assumption.

Fine. I hate to have to play your game, but okay....let's parse Paul's statements you have so generously posted above. they do not provide the 'proof' you think they do to back-up your point about Paul's "gleefulness".

I will suggest that since I have not read the entire posts these came from, they are probably our of context within the framework of which they have been written, but let's assume for your argument that they are in context. Let's look at them at face value.

>>>"It would give me the greatest of pleasure to watch the look on your face when the excortiating white hot panic sears your remaining two synapses on the day you find out how grotesquely mistaken you were."<< <

I don't know of whom Paul is talking about here, and I don't know WHAT "you" are mistaken about. I'll assume it is some pollyanna or yourself regarding the severity of Y2K disruptions....for sake of illustration.. He is saying here that he will take satisfaction at seeing the look of pure panic at the realization that [you] have woken up and realized just how mistaken [you] have been.

Is he gleeful at the suffering of someone who is starving, cold or maimed? No. He will take pleasure at watching the LOOK ON YOUR FACE, when [you] realize how wrong [your] assumptions were. Save perhaps some mental suffering at realizing a huge mistake. where is the "glee" at someone suffering?

>>>"If an attacker is killed, then I am GLAD that not only did I kill him, but that he no longer has an opportunity to kill anyone else in his misanthropic adventures." <<<

Here again, like the above, I don't know what Paul means by "attacker". I'll assume for sake of your argument that it is a hungry marauder that is attacking those that have stores, and haplessly attempts the same at Mr. Milne's address.

What Paul is saying here (based on the pure context of the sentence alone), is that if Paul kills such an attacker, he will be glad that he did because of not only the marauder's predatory nature, but that the marauder will no longer have an opportunity to kill anyone else.

Sounds pretty noble to me Flint. Did Paul say he will be glad to kill for the sake of killing? No. He said he will be glad to kill a marauder who apparently has killed others before.

So because Paul expounds such in these two statements, that somehow automatically by Flint Fiat, Mr. Milne is gleeful to see suffering???

Great stretch Flint.

On one hand though, I am completely wrong about your nature. You are not a Lawyer, though you certainly place intent and onus where it never was.

Apparently you think you're a Psychologist.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 07, 1999.

You guys are going nuts in here! Remember, there's only 54 more days.

-- Everyone (start@prepping.now), November 07, 1999.

Hey Pro,

You just illustrated how woefully inept and ignorant you are about this nations Constitution, and what it's intent is and was.

You have no understanding of what Paul meant when he stated the above.

Instead, you put your own assumptions and perceptions of what this country is all about at your pathetic "branding' of Milne.

You have never read nor understood the Constitution. Instead you have just made an assumption based on our popular culture that we somehow live in a pure Democracy.

You are so ignorant, it's pathetic. You apparently went to a public school, or flunked history or both.

You are one that will willingly jump in the lake because your friends do.

You are definitely a sheeple.

And an embarrasment.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 07, 1999.

Trying to argue rationally with a raging psychotic like Paul "Pot" Milne is a wasted exercise.

(where is your argument? I do not see one. I see a diatribe. I see slander.)

He's the sort of person who slows down at accident sites hoping he'll see some blood.

( More argument or mere slander?)

While it is instructive and illuminating to see what sort of individual populates the white wing of this country, it is his followers that are the most baffling.

( Thw 'white' wing of the country? What is the 'white' wing of the country? Is that some sort of racist crack? )

Surely, his indifference to the death of his family members might be a clue to his dysfunction.

( What indifference, you blathering imbecile? It is EXACTLY becaue I am NOT indifferent that I spent so much time trying to warn them BEFOREHAND so that they would have the time and resources to prepare. The 'indifference was on their part in refusing to make any form of preparation at all. And now, you come out like flint-child with your manifest bile and malice to suggest that I am indifferent to their death. The number one disfunction here is the disfunction of your reading comprehension skills.)

If not, how about his desire for a mass holocaust of your friends and neighbors, should his version of democracy not be followed.

( Once again, crap for brains, it is not my version of 'democracy'. Democracy is mob rule. Two wolves and one shep voting on dinner. It is the tyranny of the majority. it is the same opinion of ignorant slobs like madison, adams, jefferson and you know, perverts like them. However, you do tell a lovely tale by making all these nice people out to be 'friends and neighbors' just your ordinary inocent decent joe. we have GOD_GIVEN rights that were to be protected. If your friends and neighbors want to ignore that and infringe upon the GOD_GIVEN rights of others then they are no 'friends and neighbors' of mine.)

Do any of you lot not see what sort of horrific monster you idolize?

( LOL LOL LOL Yeah, following in the footsteps of Jefferson, Adams, Henry et al, is a horrific thing to do. Never mind that 99% of all 'americans' have abandonned that which made the basic provision for their evaporating libeties.)

Apparently not. Instead we hear, "right on Paul" and "Paul Milne for President".

( gee, why do you think that is you moron? There are still a few people left who understand what our constitution was for. To protect us from people like you who would allow a 'democracy', a majority vote, to dictate how we live our lives.)

That an out of work telemarketer should elicit this level of hero- worship sends shivers to my soul.

(And once again, we find that only lies give any breath to you at all. if it were not for lies, you would have nothing to say. I was never a telemarketer, whatever that is, and I am not unemployed. I was once a commodities broker, and yes, with clients all over the country, guess what???!! We use a telphone. Once again, an apt manifestation of your grotesque malice.)

Fortunately, his flock is small, his influence insignificant and his reputation (amongst even his most fervent brownshirts) will soon be in tatters.

( Amazing then that you would expend such effort to quash the mighty rebellion.)

I could never imagine meeting another human being who most exemplifies pure unadulterated evil.

( LOL LOL Let's see. Utter the word liberty and you are a pervert. Mention tyranny of the majority rule in a democracy and you are a subversive. Bring up the meaning of the constitution and you are satan incarnate. Dare to say that our government has pererted the plain intentions of our foaunding fathers and you are damned to hell.)

(go figure.)

If the government becomes a tyranny it needs to be destroyed. If the majority of those people support that tyranny, then they need to go too.

Milne, November 7,, 1999.

( Yup, I said that and it is 100% true. If 99% out of 100 support the tyranny, then they are my enemy. period. Merely being born on this continetn does not mean that you have any understanding at all of what our constitution was set up to do. It was to limit severly the power of a federal government to keep the OUT of the business of the private citizen to the greatest extent possible. It was to delegate severly limited authority for the government to perform onlycertain duties. ALL other powers were rtained by the states and by the poele. The federal government has wildly wildly overstepped it properly authorized bounds and insinuated itself into every minute facet of our lives. The freedom that you believe that you have is a mere illusion. You are free to only do what they permit. That is not freedom and that is not liberty. It is what our forefathers fought and died for and what you have not only forgotten but trample under foot.

Yes, if that is what you and your 'friends and neighbors' hate so much, then of course you are my enemy. If your 'friends and neighbors' want so badly to reject the constitutional republic and supplant it with a legislative democracy, then YES you and your friends and neighbors are my enemy. Just like the TORIES were Jefferson's enemy. And I will fight you tooth and nail, head held high.)

( Oh, and get a real e-mail adress you anonymous cowardly puke.)

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul DAVIS:

You are such a frigging WEASEL!!! Just who the hell are we who have prepared supposed to APOLOGIZE to, if Y2K turns out to be no big deal???? Who have we harmed? Who have we offended?

A threat is perceived, measures are taken. Like fire insurance, like life insurance. Do you badger people saying, "You had fire insurance on your house for all the time you lived there, and never had a fire. Apologize for wasting YOUR money!"????

Crawl back to that moronic "de-bunking Y2K" site that you live at, you pathetic weasel.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), November 07, 1999.

Flint:

If some lunatic is attacking my child and in defense I kill the attacker, If I'm not glad I did so, what should I be? Disappointed I did so? I should be glad that I did something to him that stopped him from killing my child.

"Glad" here doesn't necessarily mean jumping around mad with glee. It can easily mean something closer to "satisfied", or "relieved."

So, what's the problem?

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 07, 1999.

A simple lesson In the EVIL of democracy that even a moron like Y2k pro can understand... oversimplified so that he can grasp basic principles.

Suppose there was a democracy of 100 individuals. 49 of which were merchants and 51 of which were farmers. The farmers in the majority can pass any law that they like having the merchants at their mercy. The majority rules and that is the law. The 51 farmers pass a law that the non-farmers must work one day in seven on their farms for free because they need the physical excercise and it would be good for them.

This is evil. it is tyranny. it is the tyranny of the majority to enforce their will upon the minority.

It is precisely why the founding fathers ridiculed democracy. They vilified it. They knew that democracy was evil.

That was why the set up a bicameral legislature. They set up two deliberative bodies. They did not want the poeple to participate in a direct democracy. They knew that the end result would necesarily be a tyranny of the majority over the minority. They knew that laws would be passed based upon the whim of the time. They wanted to avoid that at all costs. That is why benjamin Franklin, when asked by a woman, what kind of new governement they had, responded, "A Republic, madam. if you can keep it."

He KNEW that the propensity would be to surreptitiously turn it into a legislative tyranny over time. It was an oft mentioned subject in the consittutional debates.

And now, we have dimwits like Y2Kpro, who would not only 'think' of our government as a democracy, they would have it ACT like one. And it has.

Our government has usurped all manner of authority that it was never DELAGATED in the first place. It happened slowly over time such that sub-cretinous morons like Y2K pro, never noticed; just like the frog in a pot of boiling water.

Y2k pro is the product of our dumbed down public education system. It is not a system set up to encourage learning. It is a system set up to encourage the status quo and compliance with majority whims. I could be wrong about pro. he could have gone to a private school. In that case the money was merely flushed down a rathole.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

Eve,

You have hit the nail squarely on the head. "glad' does not necessarily mean dancing a jig at someone else's demise. But flint- child maliciously and intentioanlly perverts and twists and distorts to suit that malice.

flint and others never asked for an explanation of what 'glad' means. They assumed whatever poison they could squeeze from it.

This is a tactic that venial peole use when they can not be honest with others or more important, themselves.

'Glad 'can run the whole gamut from being relieved that it is over, to being being proud to have done one's duty, to being satisfied that your family is no longer in danger, to being grateful that no one else will be harmed by the attacker.

flint never requested a clarification. He merely went off assuming the worst. And, assuming it for the express intention of doing harm to me. he never siad, 'Paul, what do you mean by you are glad that you killed an attacker? Do you mean that you derive enjoyment from mere killing?"

What kind of answer do you think he would have gotten?

He would have gotten exactly what is in this post. But he did not. And that is because his motive was wicked from the start. His motive was to slander, to impugn, to incite, to cause strife.

Thank you for being honest and reasonable enough to have taken the time to understand.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

Well said Paul, except we're all wasting our breath on emotional idiots like Pro.

To be honest, the first one that is able to rend the mainstream press mute, would be one of the greatest American Heroes since Washington.

This is because most folks get their news and education from an institution that was supposed to be an investigative body of justice for the people. Unfortunately, it has become corrupted into a propaganda arm that reports on press releases and makes decisions on what the populace should be told, and how it should think.

Because of this, most American Dolts beleve we live in a pure democracy...and that's just what the Elites want them to think.

Which is why if you neuter the mainstream press, you've won the first battle in taking back our Republic.

Treasonous beliefs Pro, yes I know. Perhaps I should just sell our nuclear secrets to China and be considered a hero in your book.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 07, 1999.

Patrick Henry: "Give me liberty or give me death!'

y2k Pro; "You f*cking pervert. you WANT death don't you?"

Nathan Hale: "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country.'

Y2k pro." You f*cking pervert, You'd LIKE to suffer and die twice, wouldn't you?'

Capatain Piccard: "All hands abandon ship!'

Y2k pro" "you f*cking pervert, you WANT us all to freeze and die in space."

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

GOD I am depressed after reading all of this. I have never ever experienced a thread on this forum bringing me to tears but this one has. Please stop.

I realized something while reading all of this. If my parents and brothers showed up, of course I would let them in....I love them dearly and do not wish them to die. I am rather frustrated w/them for not heeding my warnings to prepare, but I can understand how strong our psychological defenses can be to the idea of our world crashing down. It's a terrible thing to even wrap our minds around, much less prepare for. I know when my husband and I first got it, I walked around for a week with a pounding headache and a terrible stomachache.

I would explain to them that our 8 month supply of food has now been decreased to however many months less.

And I realized that my father would starve to death before he would allow me and my brothers to starve.

And I realized my mother would starve to death before she would allow me and my brothers to starve.

And myself ---I would starve to death before I allowed my own daughter to starve.

What is life? All that has ever really truly mattered has been love.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 07, 1999.

HAW! HAW! HAW! So "glad" doesn't really *mean* glad, see? And "great pleasure" doesn't really *mean* great pleasure. Why, these terms can have a whole gamut of meanings. It all depends on intent, and context, and figures of speech, and anything else Milne can dream up to weasel out of actually meaning what he said. And if you were foolish enough to actually read the *words*, rather than beg Paul to explain what he meant by them *this* time, why, you deserve every foul name he can think to call you!

Uh huh. Amazing how the obvious can suddenly become so vague and slippery when Paul must either weasel or admit error. But what *you* say, now, that's different. *You* are an obvious idiot. *Then* it's all black and white, without a gamut to be found anywhere. And we're supposed to take this seriously? Even a lawyer would be ashamed.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

Once again, the mouth-breathing, fart-catcher known as Paul "pot" Milne attempts to justify the execution of hundreds of millions. No one cares about your desperate attempt to recreate some sort of constitutional nirvana. You are entitled to that opinion - that's what's so great about our democracy, even the feeble-minded blowhards are allowed one.

No, your sanctimonious, off-the-cuff comments about " the decimation of the population." are the most troubling. Right-thinking people, regardless of their stance on Y2K, oppose you on this. Your fellow human beings do not deserve to die simply because their idea of democracy diverges from your own. That you would utter phrases like ". If the population is 'content' to live under this tyranny, then they deserve to be wiped out as a result of Y2k." clearly identifies you as the evil little wart that you are.

Death is not something to wish upon your fellow human beings - and it speaks volumes about the giant maggot in the space where your heart is supposed to be contained.

Or as one of your followers once said:

"People who want to survive Y2K should be prepared to kill."

(its@coming.soon), July 27, 1999.

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Hey Flint, is this what you mean by name calling?

"['a'], if you could get Paul's dick out of your mouth maybe you could understand this" - Flint, about 2 months ago

Flint, you are a lowly hypocrite. But do continue with your self-imposed ass whipping. Its always a good laugh to see you getting the intellectual daylights beat out of you by your mental superiors.

-- a (a@a.a), November 07, 1999.

DID ANY OF YOU STOP CUSSING EACH OTHER OUT LONG ENOUGH TO READ MY POST A COUPLE OF POSTS UP?????

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 07, 1999.

In answer to flint's raving perversion...

HAW! HAW! HAW! So "glad" doesn't really *mean* glad, see? And "great pleasure" doesn't really *mean* great pleasure. Why, these terms can have a whole gamut of meanings.

( Yes, child, many terms have a wide range of meaning. Only the pernicious assume the worst that they possibly can. Even Eve understood that. You see, she asked. She did not assume. She did not behave with malice. She was not consumed with hate, like you are. )

It all depends on intent, and context, and figures of speech, and anything else Milne can dream up to weasel out of actually meaning what he said.

( Yes, context is extremely important to anything said, But I am glad to see you ridicule context. It serves to show your lack of any attempt to understand, but to sling lies and accusations to fit your malicious paradigm. I have not yet 'weaseled' out of anything. I said what I said, and not only did you misinterpret it, but you INTENTIONALLY distroted and twisted in order serve your growing hunger for revnege. )

And if you were foolish enough to actually read the *words*, rather than beg Paul to explain what he meant by them *this* time, why, you deserve every foul name he can think to call you!

( Really, what foul names did I call an honest and resonable person like Eve, who did not act with bile. What names was she called as she tried to ascertain what I meant? )

Uh huh. Amazing how the obvious can suddenly become so vague and slippery when Paul must either weasel or admit error.

( You still have not addressed any issue at all point for point. You meander aimlessly on a sea of bile in a raft of malice. Please do continue to exhibit your ill intent. I could not have a better stage to show it off if I paid for one.)

But what *you* say, now, that's different. *You* are an obvious idiot.

( really. Obvious to whom? Tkae Eve for example, She has read this thread...has not apparent ax to grind one way of the other. Go ahead and ask her what she thinks as a refereee. I will accept her opinion if you are willing. I have never seen her in here before, and I do not know her. All she has is what the both of us have said here. I will let myself be judged on that. Will you?)

*Then* it's all black and white, without a gamut to be found anywhere. And we're supposed to take this seriously? Even a lawyer would be ashamed.

(Someday, you will grow up. You will not herk and jerk violently around trying to incite and inflame for no reason. Someday, you will find that your lies will catch you out, in public, in front of everyone, like they have today in this thread.. You will find that your malice and hatred and venialty will only turn on you and harm you. It is a pity that anyone like you should have embarrassed yourself this way.)

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

With a name like flint a, you'd think he'd be a bright spark...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 07, 1999.

'a':

Sorry you haven't figured out how to do it yet. If you ever learn, the real world may astonish you. You might even enjoy it!

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 07, 1999.

Nice attempt at obfuscation Flint.

Now go back and re-read my reply to you 15 posts up.

Your professional attempts at sidestepping, distracting and diverting the main point of this thread is becoming juvenile. You are sounding like Y2K Pro.

Eve, Paul and myself have proven you have taken Milne's statement out of context, and by putting onus on the definitive of the words to prove your misguided point, is nothing more than laughable.

In other words, you are deliberately slandering him to make your point.

I'm beginning to think that Paul is right about you.

But I know what you're doing, and it is nauseating.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 07, 1999.

Paul:

Just recently posted a letter I sent to my family on the forum:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001i5h

For whatever it is worth, I understand and agree with how you feel concerning those who will not even listen.

I can deal with someone who will research an issue, and then develops a different opinion than mine. So be it.

Do NOT scoff at my research and consider it offset by your wants and opinions. Not in Y2K. Not in historical knowledge. Nowhere.

So, I know the pain a man can feel when he has been laughed at, ridiculed, scoffed at, etc., for the last year.

But, sir, your foul mouth hurts your presentation. I worked factories for over a decade. As foul a mouth as a man could brag of. You can put any idea, any degree of emphasis, scorn, rage, or anger, into words without using any language that I would not use in front of my 14 year old daughter. And strenthen your case.

Fare thee well in the new year. May we not face tasks greater than our strength.

-- mushroom (mushroom_bs_too_long@yahoo.com), November 07, 1999.

Hmmm, I might not have stopped to post here again but the curiosity was killing me.

I am going to skip the line by line analysis of Milne's posts since I've been gone. Instead I think I'll humble myself and apologize to Mr. Milne if I have stirred up a hornet's nest. Let me put it this way; I am highly opinionated on some topics. Obviously politics is one of them. Mr. Milne feels the same way apparently. Maybe I was too quick to start fighting about this. No, I was too quick to fight. I feel much better now having spent the better part of the day outside enjoying the Autumn weather, and I'm embarrassed to see how nasty I was.

I don't have anything else to say for now as I fear I would only engage in more bickering. I would like to sincerely apologize for my behavior to both Paul and to the rest of the forum. Whether or not he cares to reciprocate is irrelevant. I just want to clear up a little bad karma that I planted here. Truly, how Paul treats his family is his own business. As far as the rest of what I said goes, I won't comment. Everyone is free to disagree and I was just exercising my rights.

I hope I can lead by example and put an end to this thread's malice. So, sorry again Paul. I'm sure you aren't that bad of a person. You obviusly have potential as a leader and I can only hope you really know what the right thing is, and that you do it consistently. If you use this as an opportunity to get in one more proverbial 'jab to the face' then your actions will literally be louder than words.

Anyway, apologies extended all around, with or without your acceptance.

-- (anon@anon.com), November 07, 1999.

In answer to Y2k pro...

Once again, the mouth-breathing, fart-catcher known as Paul "pot" Milne attempts to justify the execution of hundreds of millions.

( Really? Can you cite for me where I stated that anyone ought to be executed? Can you? Once again, your pathetic malice comes to the front, not to mention your lies. if you will read what i said, I said that if they support tyranny, they have to go. Does that mean that they ought to be executed? Or is that your perverse interpretation? If I said that congress has perverted the constitution and they 'have to go' does that mean that they are to be executed? Of course not. Bit malice is as malice does.)

No one cares about your desperate attempt to recreate some sort of constitutional nirvana.

( What attempt would that be. Have I an organization? No. I just speak my mind. That is called the freedom of speech. But, I do understand why you would ridicule the constitution and why you hate it so much. kind of like the way vampires hate silver bullets.)

You are entitled to that opinion - that's what's so great about our democracy,

( Once agai, we do not live in a Democracy. We live in a constitutional republic. Sya it with me..."CONSTITUIONAL REPUBLIC" There you go! I knew you could do it. Do you still not understand the difference between the two? Do you not understand that they are diametrically opposed to one another. Do you not yet know that the founders understood the evil of democracy and insituted a consitutional republic? I guess not. )

even the feeble-minded blowhards are allowed one. No, your sanctimonious, off-the-cuff comments about " the decimation of the population." are the most troubling.

( No. Once again, you intentionally misconstrue. I said that if the population SUPPOSRTS tyranny, then if they were offed, that would be a good thing.

Try this asshole.

Is a tyranny bad? Yes.

Are those who support tyranny evil? Yes.

Is it a bad thing to war against the supporters of tyranny? yes.

So it seems that your only problem is that you are blind to the tyranny that you live under. What it boils down to is your own ignorance. No one can help you ther, you like it that way.)

Right-thinking people, regardless of their stance on Y2K, oppose you on this.

( What are 'right thinking' people? People who think like you? That we live in a democracy when I have explained to you that we do not. )

Your fellow human beings do not deserve to die simply because their idea of democracy diverges from your own.

( who said they deserve to DIE becuas etheir idea od DEMOCRACY is different form mine.?

Apparently you are being intentioanlly ignorant. it is not about a 'different' idea about democracy. Democracy ITSELF is evil. Once agai, our constitution founded a RTEPUBLIC explicitly OPPOSED to a democracy. but, do continue to be invincibly ignorant little one. It makes my job so much easier to expose you for the weeping ass that you are.)

That you would utter phrases like ". If the population is 'content' to live under this tyranny, then they deserve to be wiped out as a result of Y2k." clearly identifies you as the evil little wart that you are.

( yes, I suppose so. I am opposed to people who support tyranny. Sue me. Tyranny is evil. The founders of theis country went to war to oppose tyranny. If it was good enough for them it is good enough for me. Even the TORIES did not understand this and opposed the rest of the colonists. They were blind to tyranny like you are. "What's wrong with living under King George III? I see no tyranny.")

Death is not something to wish upon your fellow human beings

( This is an equivocation, once again. They are NOT my fellow human beings. They ARE human beings. But as long as they, like you, SUPPORT tyranny, they are not my fellows. )

- and it speaks volumes about the giant maggot in the space where your heart is supposed to be contained.

( Blah blah bah blah blah.)

Or as one of your followers once said:

"People who want to survive Y2K should be prepared to kill."

(its@coming.soon), July 27, 1999.

( yes, people who want to survive should be prepred for the occassion that folks who have NOT prepared, like you, will try to do them harm as a direct result of their refusal to prepare. people who have not prepared will not be satisfied to recognize the private property rights of those, who with foresight, sacrificed to take care of their families. They will not be satisfied to try to earn a living or too grow food or to other wise offer to work in exchange for food. They will decide that it is easier to steal. They will be the ones who will attack peaceful people minding their own business on their own property. Yes, you should be prepared to defend yourself against the agressions of these predators.) That includes the potential to kill one of them in the perpetration of deadly violence upon your family. And all becuase they refused to prepare. But, I am glad that you have so much concern for the poor poor initiators of violence and have so little concern for the god- given rights of those who prepared for their family' sake. I am so glad that you have so much empathy for the man who would commit a criminal act instead of walking up and offering to wrok for food. You know, the one who will sneak up in the middle of the night with a gun to take what he wants.

this is like shooting fish in a barrel! Pro, come back when you grow up and can form a cogent argument. Come back when you have polished your skills enough to give me half a match. Come back when you learn the distinction between a democracy and a republic. Come back when you learn that self-defense is a part of life and it is something that one must carefully consider before engaging in.

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

In answer to Y2k pro...

Once again, the mouth-breathing, fart-catcher known as Paul "pot" Milne attempts to justify the execution of hundreds of millions.

( Really? Can you cite for me where I stated that anyone ought to be executed? Can you? Once again, your pathetic malice comes to the front, not to mention your lies. if you will read what i said, I said that if they support tyranny, they have to go. Does that mean that they ought to be executed? Or is that your perverse interpretation? If I said that congress has perverted the constitution and they 'have to go' does that mean that they are to be executed? Of course not. Bit malice is as malice does.)

No one cares about your desperate attempt to recreate some sort of constitutional nirvana.

( What attempt would that be. Have I an organization? No. I just speak my mind. That is called the freedom of speech. But, I do understand why you would ridicule the constitution and why you hate it so much. kind of like the way vampires hate silver bullets.)

You are entitled to that opinion - that's what's so great about our democracy,

( Once agai, we do not live in a Democracy. We live in a constitutional republic. Sya it with me..."CONSTITUIONAL REPUBLIC" There you go! I knew you could do it. Do you still not understand the difference between the two? Do you not understand that they are diametrically opposed to one another. Do you not yet know that the founders understood the evil of democracy and insituted a consitutional republic? I guess not. )

even the feeble-minded blowhards are allowed one. No, your sanctimonious, off-the-cuff comments about " the decimation of the population." are the most troubling.

( No. Once again, you intentionally misconstrue. I said that if the population SUPPOSRTS tyranny, then if they were offed, that would be a good thing.

Try this asshole.

Is a tyranny bad? Yes.

Are those who support tyranny evil? Yes.

Is it a bad thing to war against the supporters of tyranny? yes.

So it seems that your only problem is that you are blind to the tyranny that you live under. What it boils down to is your own ignorance. No one can help you ther, you like it that way.)

Right-thinking people, regardless of their stance on Y2K, oppose you on this.

( What are 'right thinking' people? People who think like you? That we live in a democracy when I have explained to you that we do not. )

Your fellow human beings do not deserve to die simply because their idea of democracy diverges from your own.

( who said they deserve to DIE becuas etheir idea od DEMOCRACY is different form mine.?

Apparently you are being intentioanlly ignorant. it is not about a 'different' idea about democracy. Democracy ITSELF is evil. Once agai, our constitution founded a RTEPUBLIC explicitly OPPOSED to a democracy. but, do continue to be invincibly ignorant little one. It makes my job so much easier to expose you for the weeping ass that you are.)

That you would utter phrases like ". If the population is 'content' to live under this tyranny, then they deserve to be wiped out as a result of Y2k." clearly identifies you as the evil little wart that you are.

( yes, I suppose so. I am opposed to people who support tyranny. Sue me. Tyranny is evil. The founders of theis country went to war to oppose tyranny. If it was good enough for them it is good enough for me. Even the TORIES did not understand this and opposed the rest of the colonists. They were blind to tyranny like you are. "What's wrong with living under King George III? I see no tyranny.")

Death is not something to wish upon your fellow human beings

( This is an equivocation, once again. They are NOT my fellow human beings. They ARE human beings. But as long as they, like you, SUPPORT tyranny, they are not my fellows. )

- and it speaks volumes about the giant maggot in the space where your heart is supposed to be contained.

( Blah blah bah blah blah.)

Or as one of your followers once said:

"People who want to survive Y2K should be prepared to kill."

(its@coming.soon), July 27, 1999.

( yes, people who want to survive should be prepred for the occassion that folks who have NOT prepared, like you, will try to do them harm as a direct result of their refusal to prepare. people who have not prepared will not be satisfied to recognize the private property rights of those, who with foresight, sacrificed to take care of their families. They will not be satisfied to try to earn a living or too grow food or to other wise offer to work in exchange for food. They will decide that it is easier to steal. They will be the ones who will attack peaceful people minding their own business on their own property. Yes, you should be prepared to defend yourself against the agressions of these predators.) That includes the potential to kill one of them in the perpetration of deadly violence upon your family. And all becuase they refused to prepare. But, I am glad that you have so much concern for the poor poor initiators of violence and have so little concern for the god- given rights of those who prepared for their family' sake. I am so glad that you have so much empathy for the man who would commit a criminal act instead of walking up and offering to wrok for food. You know, the one who will sneak up in the middle of the night with a gun to take what he wants.

this is like shooting fish in a barrel! Pro, come back when you grow up and can form a cogent argument. Come back when you have polished your skills enough to give me half a match. Come back when you learn the distinction between a democracy and a republic. Come back when you learn that self-defense is a part of life and it is something that one must carefully consider before engaging in.

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

anon: I, for one, am impressed with you. Thank you, at least from me, for the apology. Though I didn't perceive you as being the biggest part of the fire fight going on here.

All over the topic of compassion.

I wish Flint and Milne would take this to e-mail and flame each other out there.

ALL OVER THE TOPIC OF COMPASSION.

COMPASSION.

COMPASSION.

Think about it.

Ya'll have lost it.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 07, 1999.

Preparing,

Yes, I read it and I am sorry that I ignored you. Don't be depressed. You have to make a decision. You can decide to let them run roughshod all ove ryou or you can firmly read them the riot act.

No one, not even blood relations have the right to jeopardize you because they refuse to prepare.

If you want to let them in anyway, that is up to you. But, they have not behaved as family. And, as I said, I don't believe that anyone who acts like that IS family.

It is not a simple question, in this case, of a mere disagreement on what is going to happen. The conseuences are LIFE AND DEATH. And they say that they will INTENTIONALLY disregard their responsibility and jeopardize you.

Personally, I don't take that kind of crap. That is not being un- compassionate. It is recognizing personal responsibility. It is recognizing that they 'say' they love you out of one side of their face but out of the other they say that they are perfectly willing to come and take from you when they refused to do it for thmeselves. They are willing to diminsih you to save themselves FROM themselves.

If I were in a lifeboat with my family and it would sink unless one person got out, I would get out, that the others might live. THAT is my duty and responsibility to my family. But, in your case, your family is saying to you, get the hell out of the lifeboat that you built while we danced and sang. Get out of YOUR lifeboat so we may partake of the advantages that we refused to supply. Get the hell out of your life boat because we can make you 'feel' like we deserve it or habe a right to it. Get out of your lifeboat while we make you feel guilty over our predicament.

You warned them. they refused. Now, they have to pay the piper.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

I think I know exactly what you're talking about "preparing". Maybe I didn't play the biggest role in this thread but I know I instigated some of it into existance. My apology seems lame, but it's all I got. I'm ashamed and I really need to take a hiatus from here for a while. Oh well, at least we can forget this ever happened. I hope we don't become so hateful of each other we do something that we can't take back one day. Now before I break into a verse of "Kum-bah- yah"... I'll begin my hiatus, effective immediatlely. Take care everyone, and I do mean everyone.

-- (anon@anon.com), November 07, 1999.

Preparing,

It is a mistake for you to think that the answer to it all is summed up in 'compassion. You are lost in some emotional fog.

There is repsponsibility. There is duty.

I have a responsibility and a duty to my wife and children first. I had a responsibility to warn my brothers and sisters and they ignored the message. What of their responsibility and duty?

You think that their plight overides my obligation to my wife and cjildren. You are mistaken. Their plight is NOT accidental. It is NOT fortuitous. No excuses are acceptable.

In this day and age, excuses for every kind of behavior are mad such that no one is ever responsible for the consequences of their decisions. A man rapes a woman and he is defended as the product of a sexually abused childhood. Boo Hoo Hooo. How many other people were sexually abused and did NOT rape someone?

Every cancer patient wants to sue the tobbacco companies for their OWN decision to smoke when they KNEW it was unhealthy to do so. Cities sue gun makers beacause a criminal commits a crime.

Excuses for everything and no one is responsible UNLESS they have a lot of money. Tobbacco companies have a lot of money, they must be responsible. Gun manufacturers have a lot of money, they must be responsible.

Bcause someone ignores the evidence or because someone deceives them selves is NO excuse for their behavior.

Otherwise you MUST conclude that your family is NOT responsible. And you see that that is ridiculous on its face.

You can have compassion on someone and still see that they pay the price for their foolishness. Like i said before, if one of my family showed up, I would give them three days worth of food, and send them packing. of course, they would have to work for that food. And they would get more than they worked for.

But, I would not support their imbecility, I would not support their irresponsibility, I would not support their refusal to prepare, and I would not put the rest of my family in jeopardy because they acted like fools.

That is not compassion. That is some kind of sappy sentimentalism masquerading as compassion.

I might even be persuaded to take their children in, as they are innocent victims of their parents stupidity, but no way on this green earth could I be persauded to allow them to benefit from the preparations of others when they staunchly refused to fulfill their obligations and responsibilities.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

To anon,

your comment towards me were way way way off base. I do not mean this as a jab. Just my understanding of the thread.

I know that it took guts to apologize, and I accept in the spirit in which it was intended.

Too bad flint and y2k pro don't learn anything from your fine example.

Your apology speaks volumes about what character you may have. I apologize to you for 'defending' myself maybe a bit more stridently than would be normally acceptable. I may get that way when attacked from ten sides at once without any basis in fact.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

So nice he had to post it twice. Gee Paul, is that a new asshole Flint just carved for you?

Smegma breath, you cannot worm your way out of your own words. You are an isolated, semi-literate little man who said:"If the population is 'content' to live under this tyranny, then they deserve to be wiped out as a result of Y2k.

You know what Paulie? The vast majority of Americans ARE "content" to live in the greatest country in the world. They do not deserve to be "wiped out" because they do not agree with your antiquated notions. Pathetic, pasty-faced, self-serving evil doers such as yourself are the problem with this country, not the rest of America. Take your shit-stained, corpulent, pointy headed self out to the barn and admit what we all already know "Paul 'Pot' Milne is a drooling, death-loving, nutbar". When you've done that, take your meds and go to bed

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

So nice he had to post it twice. Gee Paul, is that a new asshole Flint just carved for you? Smegma breath, you cannot worm your way out of your own words. You are an isolated, semi-literate little man who said:"If the population is 'content' to live under this tyranny, then they deserve to be wiped out as a result of Y2k.

( Yup. 100% percent correct. Anyone who is CONTENT to live under a tyranny does not deserve the name "American." The name "American" is synonymous with hatred of tyranny. Those who are content in it are not Americans but by accidental place of birth only. I wish no harm on anyone. But, they will DESERVE what happens to them. Only a pervert like you translates 'deserve' into 'wish for'.)

You know what Paulie? The vast majority of Americans ARE "content" to live in the greatest country in the world.

( The united states is a perverse shadow of its former self and the principles for which it stood. You may be content to live in the fetid squalor. )

They do not deserve to be "wiped out" because they do not agree with your antiquated notions.

( LOL LOL LOL Why cast pearls before swine or give what is holy to dogs?)

Pathetic, pasty-faced, self-serving evil doers such as yourself are the problem with this country, not the rest of America. Take your shit-stained, corpulent, pointy headed self out to the barn and admit what we all already know "Paul 'Pot' Milne is a drooling, death- loving, nutbar". When you've done that, take your meds and go to bed

(Thank you, Archie Bunker. Now undrape yourself from your flag and let the attendants help you back into the nice rubber room. They're having pudding today! yippee!!

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 07, 1999.

Amen to that last Paul.

Unfortunately, by design, compassion today means taking money from those that produce, and giving it to those that will not produce, but will instead support the political status quo.

Compassion today is recognizing that everyone that has not succeeded is a "victim".

Compassion today is "understanding" habitual sin and destructive lifestyles, and embracing them by cleaning up the mess they leave behind.

Compassion today is "feeling" guilt for your prosperity and success.

Compassion today is not judging evil or condemning wrongdoing, but "understanding it" by embracing it openly.

Compassion today is making sure others have no advantage over you, be it financially, educationally, socially, and politically.

Compassion today is ceding your ability to selfishly care for yourself to the government.

Compassion today is readily surrendering your arms, your rights, your wealth and your privacy to a so-called caring and compassionate bloated government that will use your resources to care for your neighbors. After all, if you're compassionate, you have nothing to hide....right?

Compassion today means becoming a slave to supporting the slothful, the users, the maligners, the ignorant, the minority, the unproductive, and those suffering their own mistakes.

Compassion today is wearing a ribbon in public, and blindly supporting a government that is hell-bent on transfer-of-wealth programs.

Compassion is having an "open mind" to accept ideologies that are foreign to our religions and culture.

Compassion today is embracing evil, and accepting mediocrity as a standard.

Compassion today is preparing for your family, your neighbors and your acquaintances, even though they laugh and scorn and belittle your efforts. Compassion today is giving all you have to everyone else, and letting someone else care for you.

Compassion today is having no advantage over anyone else.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 07, 1999.

Paul: Thank you for answering. I do not thank you for saying that I am lost in some kind of emotional fog. I am not lost in an emotional fog.

It IS about compassion. Yes, I have told them of the possible dangers of Y2K. I am aware of the incredibly strong hold denial can have on a human being. I am aware that denial is at times almost instinctual. I am very aware of how incredibly frightening the idea of anything above a 3 can be.

It doesn't matter--as I have said before, if things are bad enough for my family to pack up and try to get to my house, they ain't gonna make it anyway. All the people, confusion, mass hysteria, massively jammed up highways, they aren't going to make it here.

I still say it is about compassion and I always will. If they showed up we would simply FIND A WAY. What kind of a person would I be to turn away my mother, father, and brothers at a time when they were desperate and hungry? I understand your point of view--no need to restate. Mine is simply that I could not live with myself if I did that. I have a huge amount of faith--in life, in myself, in God. We would simply have to find a way.

BTW, have you actually thought through that scene in your mind? Your mother and siblings, ok maybe just your mom, actually on your front porch BEGGING for food? Crying, maybe? Scared to death? Possibly hurt or sick? BEGGING? "Please, Paul, please, you were right, please help us" I could turn down a stranger, MAYBE, to save the food for my immediate family, but my own family? No way.

But I feel that everyone has to decide for themselves what they will do or not do. You have decided and so have I.

Ps. Your wife have any opinion on turning away her in-laws?

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 08, 1999.

Do you know how surreal this is. You all talking about surviving TEOTWAWKI and you can't get along yourselves. This has been the most active thread I've seen ands its all devoted to a bunch of rantings. Small wonder they call people interested in Y2K wackos.

-- tip (....@....), November 08, 1999.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/config.pl?read=320

MARTIAL LAW WITHOUT WARNING

MARTIAL LAW WITHOUT WARNING

Saturday, 6 November 1999, at 11:30 p.m.

In Response To: National Guard To Confiscate Guns??

The following are excerpts from a World Net Daily article.
The entire article can be viewed at
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19990521_xex_clinton_and_. shtml

Posse Comitatus Act No Check on White House Power, Attorneys Claim

Excerpts:

Olson and Woll discovered that the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1863 that the president can unilaterally decide whether an insurrection is in effect and determine how much force is necessary to suppress it. He can "brand as belligerents the inhabitants of any area in general insurrection."

Equally shocking, in Olson's view, as the fact that the president can use the military against civilians, is the fact that former presidents have done so on "many occasions" -- none of them declaring martial law.

For example, in 1914 President Woodrow Wilson deployed federal troops in Colorado to suppress a labor dispute.

Olson-Wolls point out that Wilson ordered the U.S. Army to disarm American citizens -- including state and local officials, sheriffs, the police and the National Guard; to arrest American citizens; to monitor the state judicial process and re-arrest (and hold in military custody) persons released by the state courts; and to deny writs of habeas corpus issued by state courts.

Earlier, in South Carolina in 1871, without declaring martial law, President Grant sent troops into nine counties of South Carolina to enforce a proclamation commanding the residents to give up their arms and ammunition. Grant suspended the writ of habeas corpus. More than 600 arrests had been made by the end of 1871.

Between 1807 and 1925, federal troops were used more than 100 times to quell domestic disturbances -- sometimes the presence of the troops alone was enough to discourage the participants.

"Look at the history," Olson exclaimed. "None of what's happening is new. Could you ever imagine that the President of the United States could order the Army to disarm sheriffs, disarm police, and disarm the National Guard? Isn't that beyond what you'd ever dream?

"But it has happened. It's the fact that this has happened that should cause people to take this issue seriously."

But doesn't the Posse Comitatus Act provide restrictions against the use of the military?

This is the act that prohibits the Army or Air force from acting as a posse comitatus -- "the population of a county the sheriff may summon to assist him in certain cases."

"No one should ever think the Posse Comitatus Act is any check whatsoever on the ability of the federal government to employ military might against civilians," said Olson.

"We were surprised at how weak the Posse Comitatus Act is," he continued. "There have been no prosecutions ever, and it doesn't apply to any branch of the armed forces except the Army and the Air Force.

It has a huge exception -- that deployment of the Army or Air Force as a posse comitatus is a crime, 'except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress.'

"That 'Constitution or Act of Congress' exception is so broad you can drive a truck through," Olson remarked. "The final thing that surprised us was that that the military doesn't need an order from the president to have control over civilians," Olson said. "I had always thought only the president could declare martial law, but apparently not. Apparently any commander can do it, can suspend all civil rights."

Larry Pratt considers this last the most egregious of all the Olson-Woll findings.

"Military commanders can act on the basis that there is an emergency," said Pratt. "They don't have to wait until martial law is declared. The powers that they have in their hands are tremendous.

"People can't expect President Clinton to sit there in front of a camera and say, 'Tonight I have declared martial law,'" Pratt said.

"You'll just find out about it when you try and get on the main highway and there's a humvee with a soldier who says, 'Turn back.' And when you ask why, he puts his gun into ready position and says, 'I'm only following orders. Please turn back.'

"You can challenge that. You can say they -- the commander or the soldier -- have no constitutional authority for this, and you may be correct. But you will be arguing on the wrong side of a barbed wire fence. They can simply do it. It will not be debated.
--------------------------------------------------------

It is a blessing of freedom to be able to debate here, but time grows so short, and a terrible terrible monstrous event is bearing down.

Paul Milne, read the above, stop wasting precious time on Flint loose iffer, and show your leadership by telling the Forum how can one patriotically react to what's coming with the precedents above?

May God help us all.

-- Distressed re Y2K (terrible@wreck.on.way), November 08, 1999.

Enough is enough.

Some of you people scare the hell out of me, and I can only be thankful that you do not live anywhere near me.

This does not apply only to the 'doomers'. Some of you 'pollies' scare me more. I at least expect some venom from self proclaimed survivalist types, thus feel fore warned. Some of the venom spouted by pollies is every bit as scary, and makes me feel like I have been ambushed.

The who is right and who is wrong issue has gone way beyond the boundaries of normalcy on this forum. The above postings are a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black. Name calling or the lack there of, does not change the fact that an attack is an attack. It has surpassed the 'degree of insult' mark.

Discussion is one thing, but what has been occuring lately is something else. None of us has the right to laugh at or belittle any one else's decisions about Y2K. They are not our decisions to make. Not Paul, not Asking, not me. If you choose to prepare for a 10, that is your decision and the consequences are what you will live with. If you choose not to buy a single can of beans, that is your decision, and you will have to live with the consequences. Spite is reflected on both sides in this forum, as manifested in the "you will starve ..bwahahahahah" crap, to the "you are going to be ridiculed for ever" crap. Both statements are taking pleasure in someone elses pain. Sick.

If you choose to share what you have, that is your decision, you purchased it do with it what you will. If you decide not to share what you have, you purchased it do with it what you will. We each answer for our actions in one way or another.

Regardless of what we all think, nothing either side does is going to change the outcome. There is not a single person on this forum, or in the world, that can tell any of us what is going to happen next year. What we do with this kind of diatribe (both starting and feeding into it), is upset each other, upset others, and generally make everyone feel miserable. Doesn't say much for any of us, does it?

-- Dian (bdp@accessunited.com), November 08, 1999.

Well Pro,

I think I understand where you are coming from.

Because the vast majority of "Americans" are content to live in this country and abide whatever dictates are prescribed by the Executive or society, when the time comes when all property, possessions and occupations are to be collected and redistributed by the State, you will be at the front of the line to turn in your S.U.V., the title to your house and accept a detail working the New York sewers for a weekly bread and soup coupon. You will be content to reside in assigned housing. This is because the majority of "Americans" decided this is going to be the way you will live. The Constitution is just a bunch of antiquated notions.

Because the "antiquated notions" of Free Speech, Worship, search and seizure restrictions and Arms Bearing are no longer needed in our sophisticated and advanced society, you will be content to praise and support the government that has permanently sterilized your wife and daughters because the globe is too crowded to have any further white Americans populate it. That was decided by a national poll. You will be silent when your son is arrested and never heard from again because he questioned the wisdom of the Executive and all decent-Americans. We are to never question the pollsters and the evening news, we are to accept it at face-value. You will have no problems with the search and confiscation of your computer, after all, you have nothing to hide- right? You will also be content to see that all religions meet state and societal approval before they are allowed to serve their faithful. Religions not meeting state approval will be considered cults and will receive the Waco treatment. As far as arms go, we don't need them That's why we have a military and combat police force.

Because the good Americans in this country decided to allow all our nukes and military armaments to be dismantled for the good of our security and stability of the world, you promise you will not be upset when China turns the West Coast to glass. After all, it wasn't the American people's business to know what was going on in our government anyway...was it?

Yes Pro, I understand now. It IS good to jump off the cliff with the rest of the country. That's because the rest of society says so.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 08, 1999.

Preparing,

Do you think that you make your case by setting up a pathetic heart wrenching scenario specifically orchestrated do that just about no one could disagree with you?

Again, you keep on using the key phrase, "MY OWN FAMILY". You have zero concept at all about what real family is. REAL family does not attck you , refuse to prepare, and villify your attempts to explain to them. Real family does not laugh and scoff at you when you try to warn them.

As such, they are not family at all. The only thing that you are talking about is pure 100% unadulterated emotionalism.

"Ohh the freezing winter wind whipping through the threadbare shawl of the little flower girl a she stands on the street pedalling her violets.'

BULLSHIT.

We are talking about grown people who who REFUSED to contemplate the evidence as soon as they learned that it MIGHT entail ANY unpleasantness at all. We are talking about grown, responsible adults who REFUSED to do anything at all and NOW place those in MY care at jeopardy.

You refuse to discuss responsibility. you refuse to contemplate that it even exists. No matter what it is those poor poor people who are weeping innocents.

BULLSHIT.

They are hardnosed calloused morons. intent only on their present happiness, golf clubs, fancy clothing and movies and restaurants and vacations and fishing trips, while WE sacrifice to make ends meet and to prepare. While we toil in the summer sun to build a fence, they laugh and cavort on their deep sea fishing trip and JOKE about that silly bastard stretching fence wire, guzzling another imported beer. . You always find ways to make excuses for everyone else. It's never their fault. They are not to blame. oh, those poor darlings. They just did not understand.

BULLSHIT.

They FULLY understood and REFUSED to do anything. They KNEW that there was apotential for disaster and they IGNORED it.

You can keep your sappy sentimentality and keep on making up little wretched vignettes. Your family is betraying you. You know it. Just like mine betrayed me.

You can let them get away with it, cuz you jus' love'em sooooo much. snooky snooky .

homey don't play that game.

As far as my in laws go, they sold their house and bought the ten acres next to me and built another one. My brother in law comes out every other week end to help with the construction. He has been a tremendous help, and I appreciate it greatly.

My parents in law do as little as they possibly can, as little as is humanly possible and still say they are contributing. I will see to it that they eat, but little else. My lazy slob sister in law sits on her fat ass in her trailer and lifts not a finger while my wife slaves all summer over a hot stove canning produce.

Like I said, family ACTS like family. They want to talk the talk without walking the walk. My brother in law ACTS like family. My sister in law does not. I have severe diet plan in mind for that fat slob in a few more months. Lot's of excercise in the barn mucking out the manure and a high fiber diet of rice and beans. We'll get that witch in shape. : )

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 08, 1999.

Distressed,

I am exceedingly well aware of all of this. I have not the slightest doubt that the government will institute these proceedings in the event that they think them necesary.

It is blatantly unconstitutional. As such, they will have violated their duty to serve the public in those areas where they were delegated authority to do so. They will be without authority. They will be imposters. They will be no different than mere criminals .

And you wil be at war.

I have no illusions about the chances for success against such a criminal usurpation of power. But I would rather die fighting against them than to live under their tyranny.

I won't make myself obvious and I won't go down easy. I won't threaten legitimate authority but I won't accept a fraudulent one.

We are in far far far far more danger form this present government than the colonists EVER were from King George III. What they were facing was walk in the park compared to what we will be up against in the event that the government declares martial law.

The simplest way to tell that you have been violated is when your God- Given rights are suspended for whatever purpose they think is good.

They can not under any circumstance suspend your God-given rights. THAT was the whole purpose for the existence of the government , to PROTECT those rights. The minute that they call for the confiscation of guns, or rounding people up, for their 'own good', it is over. All bets would be off. Any aforementioned loyalty to them would be severed. They would have perpetrated an act of War against their own citizens. The servant would have then turned on the master.

They CAN not violate your God_Given rights while claiming to be acting in your interest. Their ONLY interest is to PROTECT your GOD Given rights. They have no other purpose for existence.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 08, 1999.

Goodness me! I make an innocuous remark about Mad Milne, go to work, and on my return find this thread has degenerated into total abuse. It's not good enough, people! (However, I did notice a nice rapport developing between Eve {Eva?} and MM. Maybe you guys would like to adjourn to a private chat room, and talk about murdering your mothers. Oooo.. That WOULD be fun).

Anyway, let this be an end to this thread. FACT: Mad Milne is a very intelligent, articulate man with strong - VERY strong - views on Y2K, government etc. He would also stand by and let his mother and siblings die because 1. they don't agree with his views and 2. they've been nasty to him. Does that about sum it up?

End of thread.

-- Asking (Asking@a question.com), November 08, 1999.

So much wisdom Paul, lost on a bunch of emotional and ignorant dolts.

It's not their fault entirely. I didn't learn about our true national history until I graduated high school and studied it myself without the "approved" history books.

There's a bunch of acedemic and media elites that have an agenda that has allowed the usurpations of power and liberty to go on unabated.

You can bet that the few patriots that decide to stand in the face of a criminal usurpation of power, will be mowed down quick. There's too few of us to fight, because too many are slaves to their own selfish materialism, and have already traded their freedom for the perception of safety and security. Case-in-point is this thread.

It's a resignation to death, but I think accepting that is the first step towards true freedom.

Patrick Henry stated it best. I will however not be an easy sheep to the slaughterhouse. It will cost some blood before my own is splattered on this once hallowed ground.

I will go defending those God-given rights enumerated in a once great document of a once-great Republic. How sad so many have abandoned the call of vigillance. They have no clue what's about to happen to them.

It's conceivable that the main effect of Y2K will be the loss of our Liberties, whether it's a BITR, or Infomagic.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 08, 1999.

Mr. Milne,

I still do not know how to deal with these terrible martial law scenarios but thank you for the reply.

So many people say "but that could not happen in America" even though it has happened in America before.

The facts are sobering, onerous. Maybe all these family members need "re-education camp" with history lessons every day. School was supposed to do that but failed miserably.

Facts, history, science, evidence. Staying focused. Praying. May you be rewarded with safety for all your clear efforts getting people to learn and prepare.

-- Distressed re Y2K (terrible@wreck.on.way), November 08, 1999.

Asking, aka CPR, has you all going again.

http://www.s tand77.com/wwwboard/messages/3698.html

-- (not@now.com), November 08, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

This has got to be the most poignant issue now facing those who are substantially prepared to whatever degree they have determined they can afford to be. Assume it is too late to make additional preparations, either due to having already run out of available resources, or the shelves are bare, or because it's too dangerous to be seen in public with a 50 pound bag of rice. How is one to determine whether to share with others who are outside the group for which one has planned? What if your spouse who didn't lift a finger starts magnanimously giving stuff away or objecting when you do? I won't pretend to have this one figured out.

One doesn't have to be a Milne "follower" to recognize that flint has grossly misrepresented what Mr. Milne said about how he would treat his family. It would be so much more honorable for flint to admit his mistake, than to pathetically dredge up out-of-context quotes to avoid doing so. We all know flint's smart enough to recognize that this is exactly what he has done.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), November 08, 1999.

Paul lectures "preparing" about emotionalism?

-- (resigned@this.point), November 08, 1999.

Aha! SOOOOO....

ASS King is really CPR alias FANNY BUBBLES (!) alias Doctor Poorly...

What a vile specimen this agent provocateur is...

KARMA my friend - you will get yours IN SPADES...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 08, 1999.

Dancr,

The reason why flunt ***won't*** do that is because 1) he's not man enough because 2) he ALWAYS gets his skinny ass wupped by Paul Milne...

Paul has it down to an art form, it is a joy to behold the master at work :o)

I know a appreciates it, as do most of us that can see through bright spark flint...

keep trying flint, one day, maybe one day, ya might "get lucky"... :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 08, 1999.

"They [DGI family] deserve what they are about to get. In spades." Paul Milne Those who objected to Paul's words were really right on this one, regardless of their polly/doomer orientation. Paul's words above and through the course of this thread, smack of embitterment and (oh gosh, how can I say it felicitously)...unresolved family issues.

I doubt that a full-time flock of pollys boring the boards daily could go further to discredit the legitimacy of the message you guys work so hard to disseminate -- the message to prep - than Paul Milne's manifest anger.

He has done much to alert people through all this, no question about it. No question in my mind that he cares deeply. HOWEVER.

It is the incurable frivolity of the pollies combined with the shrillness of some frustrated doomers that has made the message about prepping nigh inaudible to many who are really struggling not only to hear it, but trying to find the resolve to do it.

-- (resigned@this.point), November 08, 1999.

So sayeth Mini-Milne and the rest of the brownshirts...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 08, 1999.

Asking:

Here again is the hypothetical question I put to you above that you chose to ignore:

You have room for one, and only one, more person. Adolf Hitler is your brother and Mother Theresa is your unrelated friend. Who do you choose?

Stripping away most of your snarling rantings, I think I've discerned that you would unheaitatingly choose the former, because he's "blood".

I have no doubt, though, that you will ignore this post as well, because to now say you'd choose Mother Theresa would brand you as a liar and manipulator with respect to your postings, while you simply wouldn't have the guts to openly admit that the other choice represents your honest feelings.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 08, 1999.

Is that the smell, once again, of Andy's asshole being reamed out?

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 08, 1999.

Ass King would go with Hitler because a) Hitler's a guy and b) He likes men in uniform...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 08, 1999.

I wanted to interject one little point I've come up with since last night. I am going to be away from this board (or lurking very very quietly in the corner anyway) for at least another two months.

The point however, is that I think I've come to understand why I was so far off base against Paul. You see, this country IS screwed up. This whole monopoly suit against Microsoft is just an example of the free enterprise system being destroyed by the federal government. Now that the precedent has been set we will see this more and more frequently will all sorts of industries. Mark my words, this will be the straw the broke the camel's back. Remember it well, because it more than likely won't be taught in any history class. Not if the Clinton Administration has anything to say about it.

Paul Milne is right up there taking it on the chin trying to get people to see that, and the undertow of tryanny that is akin. He paints a grim picture of what we have to do to fix the current jam we find ourselves in. Now, automatically I think to myself he is just instigating some revolution, and that there has to be a better way. But there isn't, unfortunately. I thought that this time around humans could make a leap of evolution and skip this stupid WAR bullshit. Milne is just telling everyone what they NEED to hear, but what they don''t WANT to hear. So naturally we attack him and act like he is the one who caused the problems. That is why I felt like apologizing last night, and now I know why.

Forget the way Milne views the world. Instead try and focus on how YOU view the world, and see if you can find common ground. PAUL is NOT THE ENEMY. I know it's much easier to think he is, and just go about our business. But that would be wrong, and in the long run would be in opposition to our best interests as a free nation.

I feel blessed to think that I was able to break through my own prejudice and realize that Paul was right about me, and how I was way off base. It's not an easy thing to do. I am also coming to realize that most people won't even try. Attack the messenger, not the message. I really just want to think that P.M. is a lunatic with nothing better to do but plot rebellion and make pipe bombs in his basement. But let's be honest about this. Eventually we'll have to face the reality, and better to be sooner rather than later. Have any of you heard the theory of how to boil a frog? You put the frog in cold water, and heat it up very slowly, so it doesn't jump out. Eventaully it will just sit there and boil to death, so long as the temprature doesn't rise too fast. I think we've become a nation of frogs, and the heat is on. I hope a better part of us have the sense to jump out of the water before it's too late.

Well, that's it. I am officailly on vacation for a while. I'm going to try and figure out best to stop what's going down in this country the best I can. I would really like to think that America will still be free in five hundred years from now. We have accomplished so much, and have the potential for so much more.

Now is the time to stop fighting with each other and really try to find that common ground we all share. Maybe if we can do that, then the stars and stripes, and everything good they stand for, will be around for the next thousand years. Maybe even longer.

-- (anon@anon.com), November 08, 1999.

I would hope what you wrote would be true anon, but unfortunately it won't.

The Constitution, our foundations and what Liberty truly means is deliberately being re-written by the academic and media elites, and the American people have went right to sleep behind the wheel of Freedom.

The attacks you see on Paul for his beliefs are evidence of the vitriol that now exists in our culture for anyone demanding we return to our foundational roots. They have redefined what a patriot is, they have re-defined what it means to be free, hell, they even redefined what the word "is" is. The zeitgeist is now the true reality because idiots believe prosperity is freedom.

America is being well-fed while being raped and gutted from within. America is willing to beleive it is not rape because it feels good, and they do not "feel" disemboweled because they are being led to believe they are eating prosperity at the hand of them that are raping her.

The truth is that anyone that espouses the liberties we have lost to this tyrannical behemoth we call a government, and points out the gross negligence, hypocrisy, lies and criminal oversteps of government authority, are now the declared enemy of the people.

The vast majority of people in this nation are willingly abiding a criminal tyrant for a president and government for their own perceived safety, stability and security.

We have become no different than the citizens of Germany that willingly succumbed to the Nazi's after the collapse of the Weimar Republic. Hitler made the trains run on time, he created the Autobahn, he brought them out of hyperinflation they all said; "Hitler 'aint so bad" ......likewise Clinton has created the BEST economy in the history of this nation everyone thinks, he feels the pain of everyone else, he cares for the children, he takes on the wealthy...."so what if he has a few sex hang-ups, Clinton 'aint so bad". Meanwhile both leaders have a commonality in corrupting the systems of checks and balances, demouguoging the opposition and turning the military and police on the citizenry.

People will willingly overlook evil as long as their own appetites are sated. This is how tyranny blossoms. We just haven't seen the full- blooms of what has been sown over the last 35 years and longer.

Paul is right however, if the vast majority of Americans want a dictator (but he won't really be a dictator by definition - just another "term"), and to trash the Constitution - then he will count all those that support such a movement as enemies to his liberty...because they are. What is also true, is that those that abide an evil regime, and then suffer for it because they dared not oppose it, deserve all that they receive as a result of their negligence.

Call it whacko, call it extreme, I don't care....I believe that those that reap what they sow, get what they deserve. And if the people of this nation will willingly put their God-given rights into the hands of the politicians, and sell their birthright...then they are complicit with the enemies that would destroy my freedom, and are enemies of Liberty. They will deserve richly all that they receive at the hands of those they put their trust.

This nation is finished. And you only have yourselves to blame America.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 08, 1999.

Paul, I was asking how your wife felt about turning her IN-LAWS away....that would be YOUR family. You answered by telling me all about YOUR in-laws. And *I'M* the one lost in a fog of emotionalism? At least I can read a question correctly.

By the way, I got a GREAT idea for how to deal with your mother and seven siblings. Instead of just turning them away, why not just shoot them on the spot? Actually a bit more humane if you think about it--no long, suffering, tortuous death from starvation or dehydration or both. This also has the added benefit of less whining and begging that you have to listen to!!! (Just leave their bodies where they lie, they deserve it, right?)

Got ammo?

BTW, I agree with whoever said it...there are some unresolved family issues here that go WAY beyond Y2K. As another BTW, Paul, I don't define FAMILY as only people who AGREE WITH ME ON EVERYTHING. Obviously you do.

Oh yeah, and that "fat-ass" <--your words sister in law of yours that you plan on putting on a diet and making her exercise in the manure of the barn? You could very well take care of her the same way I suggested for your mother and siblings. One less mouth to feed, right?

Peace be with you, man. You're gonna need it. I only hope for everyone's sake that your family doesn't even show up asking you for help.

Just for the record, though I am FAR from being a polly (have almost 18 months of every kind of prep conceivable) and refuse to term myself a "doomer" (I prefer Little Miss Ant), I am afraid a lot of lurkers have the impression that all people who think Y2K will be bad think as Milne does. I, for one, do not. Oddly enough, I do agree with his views on this country. We are soooo sosoo soo soft. So blind (as a country). So apathetic it isn't even funny. But I wouldn't turn my family away to starve, period. And I live in an 1800 square foot house in the burbs on about 1/8 of an acre (MAYBE). Probably closer to 1/16. I still say we would find a way, because I love them and do not wish for them to die. The fact that they didn't prepare would be pretty much academic at that point.

And Paul, obviously you did not read the part of my post where I said my dad would starve before he would allow me to, and my mom would do the same. What do I have to fear from them? God is with us. Call my attitude being "lost in a fog of emotionalism" all you want. I think you are lost in a fog of hate. And that is ONE of the strongest emotions of all. (Strongest? LOVE.)

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 08, 1999.

Preparing:

To really observe someone lost in a fog of hate, just cool off, stand back, and read your own post.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 09, 1999.

I've got to admit, I've been totally disgusted by some of the posts on this thread. Right or wrong, Paul Milne is a doomer's doomer. In the light of what he believes, he had to make some really tough decisions regardling his friends and immediate family - not pretty decisions and not easy - but he made them. That's more than many on here have the guts to do.

Then, along comes all you "super compassionate" judgmental types, who, without the least concern for Milne's feelings in all this, baited him, tried to trap him, misquoted him and twisted his words to make him appear to be some sort of Hitlerian monster - which a careful reading of his posts belies. You were like blood maddened hyenas, laughing and cackling as you gnawed at the entrails of a wounded lion. It was one of the most disgusting displays of empty- headed, elitist liberal bigotry that I have ever witnessed. Though he was not alone in it, Paul's language was deplorable, but under the circumstances, understandable.

I have told many friends that TB2000 was one of the best Y2k sources on the net, but now I am ashamed to do so. If it was the intent of the pollies to obscure this forum's real message, you have partly succeeded. I trust you are proud of yourselves. But that is the liberal way, isn't it? If you can't debate the message intellectually, drown it out with vituperation.

There are some really sick puppies on here, so I expect you'll flame away. Have at it.

By the way, INVAR, we may not agree on eschatology, but good show otherwise, brother.

-- Elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), November 09, 1999.

Whenever I hear people talking about compassion I always think of the person who will fight to the last drop of someone else's blood.

If a DGI sibling should show up at your door, you, the compassionate, sensitive one would give your last slice of beef jerky to this poor soul.

But what if the only food left was what your small child was eating? Would you snatch it from their mouth to give to this poor soul? If it were you and two children then remember every meal you give this lazy irresonsible bum is 2/3rds your childrens. Do you even have the right to do this? Will you be brave and politically correct right up to their deaths? Wow. I'm impressed.

In a life/death situation at least have the courage to give away ONLY your share. And hope that once you've become to weak to defend them that the person you've been sharing your rations with agrees with you that he has no right to whatever is left for the kids.

-- thomas thatcher (jabawaki@erols.com), November 09, 1999.

Eve,

I didn't respond to your 'question' because I didn't read it, spending, as I do, days at a time a long way from a computer screen.

Your silly question is just that: hypothetical and silly. As I previously indicated, I can't help the entire world of DGI's. Immediate family are a different matter, IMO, and what upset me about Milne's comments was his utter callousness and lack of compassion towards his own. We're talking here about the woman who gave Milne life, no matter what their differences may be.

From the posts that followed, many on this forum agree with him. I find that ineffably sad, but not surprising. As our intellectual capacity, materialism and technical achievements grow, so our consciousness and humanity decrease, seemingly in tandem.

If, Eve, the food chain breaks down for any length of time - and that appears a possibility - we're all in deep trouble. I'd like to think that, as a human being, I would assist those close to me if I was in a position to. If, as a result of that assistance, my lifetime was shortened by a week or a month or a year - so be it. You see, Eve, unlike Milne, I know that I will die, sooner or later, and I have no fear of death. Better to die knowing that I've tried to do the right thing, rather than live another week or month or year in shame.

I'll leave Milne to his bunker, fighting off his mother and brothers and sisters, so he can enjoy another year or two of life. Hope he enjoys it.

-- Asking (Asking@aquestion.com), November 11, 1999.

Interesting! Now I know why Paul and his followers would not help their families (eve gave me the hint). Their families are dysfunctional. They have no compassion for them because of years of abuse or some other injustice. Why it is that most doomers have DGI relatives? They come on this forum and try to convince the rest of the world of the catastrophe that's about to happen and their own families think they are morons (including Ed Yourgod)! This breeds resentment (resentment that has been years in the build up), hence the lack of compassion. This didn't come about just recently, the hatred had to be there since birth.

Asking, good thread!

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), November 11, 1999.

Must not have hit the submit button.

Interesting. Now I know why Milne and his followers lack compassion (eve gave me the hint when she referred to her brother Hitler). They come from dysfunctional families. Their hatred has been building for years and now that the rest of the DGI family (and even Ed has a DGI family) can't be convinced by them, they feel betrayed. How could they possible convince the rest of the world when their families don't believe them. Hence, this lack of compassion. It makes perfect sense.

Asking, good thread.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), November 11, 1999.

From your post Marie, I gather you have a degree in clinical psychology. I'm really impressed by your snap analysis, particularly of all "doomers" as a class, seeing that you have never met or counseled any of them in person. I haven't been blessed with the ability to diagnose a person's problems from a few internet posts. So like I said, I'm impressed.

And "asking," Paul Milne's goal is not to fight off his relatives, but to save his immediate family, regardless if what that entails. In Paul's case, we are not dealing with how serious Y2K might really be, but with how serious he BELIEVES Y2K will be. Paul sees Y2K as TEOTWAWKI, and his decisions are based on that perception.

Now I am not a "follower" of Paul Milne, nor do I know how large his lifeboat is, but if Milne's lifeboat is only big enough to float his wife and kids for the time of trouble he foresees and he adds any more people to that lifeboat (no matter who they are), he dooms everyone to death. If he embraces some Don Quixote idea that it is "compassionate" to feed more than he has supplies for, then he and his wife and kids will eventually starve. And you consider that compassionate? LOL LOL LOL LOL. It is obvious that neither you, Marie, or "asking," have any concept of what it is like to be in a life or death situation, where, as the Bible says, "a man's enemies are those of his own househould," and the decisions you make could get people killed.

The point being: Who gave you the right to demand that Milne buy into to your moral code? If you are really upset about Milne's decision, then jump out of YOUR lifeboat and invite his relatives to take your place. After all, that's the only "compassionate" and "politically correct" thing to do. If you're not willing to do that, then neither should you Marie, or "asking," criticize Milne's decisions in the matter.

I hope you two ladies are right and that Y2K will be nothing to worry about. But if you're wrong, and you don't toughen up, you will both probably be numbered among the dead.

-- Surviving (could be@ tough.com), November 11, 1999.

...I am not my brother's keeper...

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), November 11, 1999.

Yes you are, zoobie, but not when it would cause the death of others.

-- Surviving (could be@tough.com), November 12, 1999.