COURAGE REQUIRED NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

All of us are aware that things are beginning to heat up big time!!! And will probably get hotter and hotter as the year progresses.

Ive read all the threads about stocking up and reasons for each and everyone of you doing what you are doing.

Recently I have had the impression that I have not been following my intuition and neither have alot of you.

If the stock market tanks and we are in a scene similar to the thirtys and then y2k hits with interruptions.

To me if its a 10 then very,very few will survive. I strongly believe it will be similar to a severe depression with major disruptions in supplys.

The bottom line is this--all of us have money---most of us live in neighborhoods---with all of the information that we have along with the current wall street crash leading into bank problems etc.

If everyone were to stock up on cases of Fruit,veggies,meat,etc. in the anticipation that they would be helping their hungry neighbors subsist due to the interruptions comming, then the severity would be reduced a little, especially if the purchases began at this time. Dont tell me the fractional percentage of GIs buying cases of stuff to get the jit inventories cranked up even more would do harm. I think that if the majority of GIs started acting as if it had already happened and would act with some courage NOW in there purchases it would send a message to the suppliers to produce more so that their would be more in the supply chain when the the DGIs finally get it.

LOOK around we all know--we all know---we all know--

KNowledge is power we can make a significant difference. If over the next few weeks we are purchasing Cases and cases of goods the message will be sent to suppliers to put more into the supply chain. If we do not go with our intuition because of fear or the proverbial "what will others think" then we have missed an incredible opportunity to lessen the severity of what we all KNOW is going to Happen.

I am not suggesting shouting to your neigbors--"hey look at me" Im ordering all this food to feed you because you were stupid".

What I am saying is--if the majority of GIs would have some courage and purchase as much as they can (covertly) did I just say covertly? Yes stock it at nite-be inconspicuous!

Please don't tell me that you are ready to protect your supplys from your stupid neighbors, thats great---so am I.

But what if its just like the 30s with supply disruptions and all our neighbors need for awhile is a little subsistance.

We could have made a difference if we had the COURAGE OF OUR CONVICTIONS. by stocking up and effecting the supply chain while it is still up and running.

Just imagine nothing happens and you can donate all that food to those people that was just reported are going hungry in our own country currently. Or you can live longer or you can help your neighbors when the stuff hits the fan.

-- D.B. (dciinc@aol.com), October 15, 1999

Answers

D.B. That sounds like a noble gesture...but if you realize the just- in-time delivery that food stores have set-up for their restocking efforts, the sudden drain and depletion of available goods would occur within a week or two, instead of in a month or two. The food conglomerates like Beatrice, RJR, etc, aren't setting on mountains of reserve canned goods and prepared food just waiting for an increase in demand to step up deliveries....they would be caught short and unable to do anything significantly helpful. This is a sad real- life "Little Red Hen" scenario that we are fixing to enter....Those foolish enough to have ignored the warning signs of the past year will have to depend on the prudence and forethought of whoever decides to have compassion on them. Remember Joseph's position under Pharoah once the 7 year famine started...surely he was a compassionate man, but he didn't just blithely started handing out bags of grain...he exacted payment and doled the precious food out in very carefully measured amounts. I hear your heart, man, your compassion is great....its not going to be funny or anything to triumph about if people start starving...just listen for God's prompting about who to help, and be a diligent steward of the resources God has allowed you to collect against that day.

-- Jay Urban (jurban@berenyi.com), October 15, 1999.

Some of us do have the COURAGE OF OUR CONVICTIONS.We do not need to sugar coat reality,or human nature.let them die.

-- apokoliptik (Apokoliptik@yahoo.com), October 15, 1999.

Added stock should first be earmarked for the weak, the poor, the elderly and others who cannot provide for themselves.

Think about who this person is, who will need your help. Think about this person when you stock up. Put a name on your efforts.

Make this a gift of the heart, freely given with no expectation of reward.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 15, 1999.


Hell, I've acted for the past 2 years and stocked up like it was going to happen 2 years ago! Stock up for my neighbors? Since 90% of my neighbors are retired, I figure they have lived out their lives and have lived thorugh hard times such as the depression. If they don't care to live anymore and stock up for themselves then maybe they want to pass on and not go through tough times again. One neighbor is 91 years old, two just had open heart surgery, and one is an alcoholic, Two families are busy having babies, buying BMW's and golfing.

I think the stores are anticipating a run on them especially for TP and some canned goods. Hell, Safeway is putting it right in people's faces by the good prices they are offering on some of their can goods. My sister's garage is full of supplies and is feeling very vulnerable because none of her neighbors are prepared. She has had comments made to her that they know where to come to get it. What? Those people won't prepare for themselves but are willing to come take what they should have done for themselves...I don't think that is in my sisters plan.

None off my neighbors can offer me anything and I have planned accordingly. They have no idea that I have prepared except for one but they don't know to what extent. I have told them I have prepared for a couple weeks and that's all. They have prepared for a month. I am relieved about that. If she doesn't get her heart medication, she's a goner anyway.

I don't know about the people that are going hungry in this country. When I go to the grocery store I see that the Cocoa Puff crowd are doing very well. I've never seen a hungry child, I guess the breakfast and lunch programs at schools are working out well.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), October 15, 1999.


No, I'm not ready to protect my supplies from my neighbors. But then I don't have many supplies to protect. You assume people have enough money to do something like this. If I did, I would-- for me, for my family, for neighbors, for .... But I don't.

Sometimes I think it might have been easier to have not GI at all.

-- (notmyusualhandle@here.sigh), October 15, 1999.



To Jay Urban,

Your insights are greatly appreciated.

I still believe that if GIs purchased with more faith in their personal feelings about the future that it would be EXTREMELY beneficial.

By the way---I like the idea of EXACTING a price!!!

Respectfully,

-- D.B. (dciinc@aol.com), October 15, 1999.


This nation did all that you suggested and found itself with generations of welfare recipients. Never deprive another of his or her natural consequences. Never deprive another of making the long trek with others instead of delaying and walking alone.

I really do think if you want to be good and helpful your path will be to adopt a family of orphans or abandoned children. Let the parents who failed those children go.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), October 15, 1999.


I guess I really feel like the ant in the grasshopper and the ant story. I have been working as hard as I can to prepare for about a year now, regretting all the time that I let myself get into such a dependent situation. All this time the rest of my extended family and my neighbors have been partying and enjoying themselves and spending money on vacations instead of warm clothes and supplies and heat stuff, etc. I am going to have a hard time feeling generous when hard times hit. I have talked to God about my feelings but...I just don't see how Joseph in Egypt managed to feel so benevolent to his brothers. I will have a hard time mentally deciding to "help others" when the others have been enjoying themselves for the past year and snickering at the preparers. No chocolate cake from my supples for them...

-- Psychotic (y2k@doom@gloom.com), October 15, 1999.

D.B.

What you're suggesting has been discussed in several threads. We've been doing community Y2k talks here for over a year, suggesting that people first stock for themselves and then for their neighbors. See my thread on neighborhood foodbanks, and another thread on a related topic.

Personally, we have food earmarked for neighbors, but we haven't told any of them yet. We want our neighbors to think they are on their own for this, and then when things get sticky we can evaluate our total situation and decide who needs what kind of help.

There are risks in any situation where one has more than another. We downplay our personal preps, and try to keep the rest of the community moving in a clump so that we don't stand out. It's been exhausting and often frustrating, but the progress has been substantial. We hope this will be enough!

As I have said on many threads, your best protection comes from living in a group of cooperating neighbors who are as prepared as you are. That's not easy to attain, we know only too well. But the bunker mentality seems like a dead end, though for many people there is simply no other choice.

If you can afford to prep, do so, and if you can afford a little extra for neighbors, do that too. Don't endanger your family by being too open, and be prepared to fend off those who would take advantage of you.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), October 15, 1999.


Here are some thoughts that occurred to me as I read the above posts:

1) no talking, my understanding is that many American aborigine tribes had a policy during famines that was diametrically opposed to the one you favor. They lived very close to the basic level of existence, so can IMO offer us some useful insights. How they would handle not having enough food to go around was to give it mainly or only to the hunters, those with the greatest likelihood of bringing in food for the group. Of course, they were notoriously focused on what type of action gave the best survival probability for the group as a whole, not being intellectually burdened by political correctness.

Also, NT, you want my family to give food to others, while removing all possible motivation survival-wise for them to do so. Please make up your mind.

2)not my usual: some help with having insufficient resources for Y2K preparation can be found by applying the ideas found in the article "Finding Y2K Prep Time and $$" on my website. Sorry I can't do more for you, but perhaps this is of the "teach a man to fish" category.

Also, when things are tough, DYING is often the easiest answer, but I will not choose that one, nor will I generally suggest to others that they choose it.

3) Psychotic, there is an excellent version of "The Grasshopper and the Ants" on my website, if you are interested in reading it. As usual, I enjoy your posts.

4) bw, "too open" with respect to food security and the neighbors in post-1999 has to mean giving them a single bite of food. If your family has enough food to give away, that means you have infinitely more than your grasshopper/DGI neighbors do. Unless you are willing either to precipitate gunbattles with your neighbors (if you resist them coming to your home uninvited to take what THEY consider their fair share), or watch your children starve while doing so yourself (if you do not), you simply cannot take this risk. "Not one bite of food given away until Y2K is over" must be the wise GI's policy, no matter what the consequences for nonfamily. Sorry.

my website: www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), October 15, 1999.



Well, Minnesota, I think the problem is not so black-and-white as you paint it. (BTW - where in Minnesota? I'm from W. St Paul, summers in BWCA. My mom is still there, a recent GI becoming more zealous every day!)

Read the first thread I cited, on neighborhood foodbanks. This is not an easy path, and not possible everywhere. But where it can be done, it suggests a way to take an entire community through the process. As that thread stresses repeatedly, the givers MUST be strong enough to protect what they have. In many places, your "not one bite" is the ONLY reasonable course, sad to say. (That will be the only course my mom can take, and siblings living near her.) In some places, with a high enough ratio of preppers, perhaps another path is open to us.

Y2k is NOT just the culling of the unprepped individuals, just as Darwinian evolution is NOT just culling the unfit individuals. Evolution happens at the group level, too, where cooperation evolves because species that cooperate can better survive rough times. If we have serious problems next year (and I see no way out of it) then we will see entire communities disintegrate and burn, and other entire communities will survive.

If cities burn, it is not because the cities are populated exclusively by loser individuals, but because cities under some conditions are a too-fragile construction. If some communities survive, it is not because all the really smart people live there, but because those communities were lucky enough to find a way to be resilient in the face of hardship.

Primates (as we are) have evolved highly cooperative instincts, which we might now use to our advantage. We naturally live in groups of several families, and have for 40 million years. The single-family fort is unnatural for us, and the family-fortress mentality is actually a form of mild insanity. But we lost the natural alternative (the village) over the last few centuries, and we don't know how to rebuild it in a hurry, in a city.

Y2k preps, for many of us, is a short course in rebuilding community. Final exam's coming too soon.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), October 15, 1999.


"Recently I have had the impression that I have not been following my intuition and neither have alot of you."

I always follow my intuition and it works pretty damn good. That's why I starting stocking up a year ago. The government is now telling people not to stock more than they need, so I'm not going to be responsible for shortages that are really going to be caused by the pollys. If they don't get what they need, too damn bad.

-- @ (@@@.@), October 15, 1999.


Minnesota -

My only motivation for trying to help others is an abiding faith in doing what is right. Helping to pull someone else up to safety is a reasonable goal.

I would agree with you that it might be contrite if the only motivation were political correctness. Political correctness doesn't enter my mind. And it is not my motivation.

I feel that we should not forget to help others, especially in circumstances in which we place no additional threat to our own safety and the safety of our family.

Being depended upon by others is not a great burden for those who wish to help pull others up.

No sermon intended.

Anyone who has the ability to help prepare some supplies for someone else, please do so. Think of a specific person who will need help.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 15, 1999.


bw, your last post was well-thought out and very insightful. Thank you for spurring some thought for me. I have to admit to the pure truth it consisted of. BTW, I cannot at this late date discuss my location anymore, although some hints are available in what I recommend in the "Serious Voluntary Relocation" article on my website. no talking, your choice has to be respected, if not one I will follow. My charity to others re Y2K preparation is the information I have given them towards motivating them to prepare and figuring out how this is most appropriate for their situation. Even GIs do not always receive this well (look at the thread I started on the prep forum for some examples). I won't be dispensing charity (I am a student of Objectivism, after all) as food in 2000. We all make our choices (I have) and must be prepared to live with them (I shall). Best to everyone in their preps.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), October 15, 1999.


Sir David:

My neighborhood is filled with DGIs.

I can't feed them all when they knock at my door.

I think they are all totally stupid.

My present contingency plan is to supply them with beans, rice and bottled water.

If they want more, I'll shut the door.

When the Russians launch their nuclear missles from their submarines, then I'll bug out to the country, where I don't have to deal with these moronic idiots.

NOTE TO BARDOU: We are encompassed with myriads of idiots. Our best defence is common sense.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), October 16, 1999.



The DGI neighbor may be one with children to feed. The DGI neighbor may come to the GI's door for food for the children.

Presumably any GI with children would be willing to do anything to keep his/her children from starving. We can't assume that the DGI neighbor with children would do any less.

The only question here for the GI is, will he (or she) be willing to allow the DGI neighbor's children to starve?

Not a trivial question.

I hope it won't need to be answered.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), October 16, 1999.


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