When will the mainstream press grow a spine and press this evil bastard to the wall? How many more innocent people have to die? What is he going to do to America when the Y2k "national emergency" gives him more power than any single person has had in all of human history?

Or do you not care, as long as it's not YOU they're dragging away in the middle of the night?

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SATURDAY, OCTOBER 09, 1999 17:01:21 ET XXXXX

FAX TO WHITE HOUSE CONTRADICTS HUBBELL'S WACO TESTIMONY; MORE FBI EVIDENCE REVEALED

Recently unearthed internal FBI documents reveal that the bureau faxed a formal assault plan directly to the White House in the early days of the 51-day Branch Davidian seige, Sunday's DALLAS MORNING NEWS is reporting.

The DMN's Lee Hancock and David Jackson are reporting that the attack plan was sent to the White House on March 8, 1993 at the behest of then Assistant Attorney General Webster Hubbell.

Hubbell testified before Congress in 1995 that the White House played no role in Waco decision making.

This document and other evidence was discovered last month within four boxes discovered at the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team base in Quantico, Va.

"Among the thousand of pages of internal FBI tactical documents are notations indicating that tanks used by the hostage rescue team near Waco carried such military ordnance as high-explosive grenades, illumination rounds and pyrotechnic military tear gas."

Also revealed:

Tactical experts for the FBI also sought authority -- but were rejected -- to shoot upon Branch Davidians leaving the compound and approaching their armored vehicles.

The documents show regular and ongoing consultations between the FBI and military experts during the stand-off.

One undated document shows that the former head of the Army's secret anti-terrorist unit Delta Force, General Peter J. Schoomaker, was sent to Waco despite questions that he had the authority to be there in the first place.

Also planned -- but aborted -- was a strategy to drug the compound's water supply.

Developing hot...

X X X X X

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 09, 1999

Answers

And this can't possibly be a surprise to anyone at this stage in the game. I hope we all have made our peace and prepped (mentally, spiritually, emotionally, as well as physically) for the fun that's coming for the next X number of years...

It's been a fun ride but it's time to step off the coaster and face your motionsickness. [shrug]

-- OddOne (mocklamer_1999@yahoo.com), October 09, 1999.

"I swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC"........

-- space (hooda@thunk.it), October 09, 1999.

Clinton to Betty Curry: Betty, can you get me a new intern? This one smells like cigars.......

-- cavscout (ourpresident@is.scum), October 09, 1999.

cavscout, this is your PSG, I kinda' like you, son, but don't expect no favors!

-- space (hooda@thunk.it), October 09, 1999.

Even Dan Webster can't get this scum of the hook.

NIGHT Train

-- jes a furious, nauseated footballer who'd kinda like to go a couple quarters across the line from him (nighttr@in.lane), October 09, 1999.

So What. I want our government to keep scum like Koresh in check. He was the one that should be blamed for the deaths of the Davidians. They have my blessing s to handle these situations as they must.

-- Waco (is@just.ok), October 09, 1999.

Liberty,

This report about WH knowledge has a ring of truth to it. Delta Force was present and I understand it takes a presidential order to activate them. It just never ends with this guy.

-- bubba (bubba@desert.com), October 09, 1999.

Waco-

Waybe you'll be the next one the they decide is scum and needs to be kept "in check". Sure hope so.

-- cavscout (somepeople@justdon't.getit), October 09, 1999.

Hey, Waco......I hope you don't have any guns or bullets, because that's was what it was all about. DO YOU HVE ANY? Please answer!!!

-- space (hooda@thunk.it), October 09, 1999.

Space,

What's a "PSG"? Flame and ridicule if you must, I can take it. I've been prepping for a year, but new to this forum (been lurking for a few weeks). Thanks..........

-- cavscout (notthesharpest@knife.inthedrawer), October 09, 1999.

Space,

Platoon Sergeant?! Geez, what an idiot! Oh well, guess I've been out too long. Like I said, not the sharpest knife in the drawer!

-- cavscout (did@my.time), October 10, 1999.

Son, first I'd like to say sorry, I was gone for a moment. I am ready to answer your questions. It' true, I only have three decades service. I am lost on the argument. Please pose a question. The Russian attack is moot in my book. You obviously don't realize we already own them. They exist because we allow them to.

-- space (hooda@thunk.it), October 10, 1999.

Hey, lil' buddy. My time isn't up, and if you've sworn to uphold the constitution, yours isn't either. It's a life, brother! Or son. So you did a few years with Uncle Sam, is that it? I'm friggin' impressed....So what's your question..oh great mind of the present military and political situation on Earth today? I'm ready to propose an answaer!

-- space (hooda@thunk.it), October 10, 1999.

P.S.

Any real cavalry scout (I've got 17 years of that) would immediately know that a PSG was a Platoon Sergeant, Not that I AM a Platoon Sergeant any more, but the bait showed him to be a TROLL!

-- space (hooda@thunk.it), October 10, 1999.

Space.

Scuse the delay in responding to your question. Yah, Im reasonably well armed but so are millions of Americans and to compare the Waco incident with everyone that owns weapons is quite a stretch. I spent 10 years in service, a few in the nasty place, so Im not like some of the phony wannabes that frequent this forum (BTW, nice work on cavscout). Ill agree that the initial BATF actions against the Branch Davidians were firearm related but there was much more to the big picture. How would you react if you had lost 4 squad buds in the initial firefight? Sounds like you have enough hash marks to know that when TSHTF, there aint no stinking rules. If the crazies of the world are allowed to run amok, you might find THEM at your door, not the government. Ive had my share of problems with the law and am enough of a man to admit my faults and pay the piper. Our government is not always right but it beats the shit out of anything else Ive seen in my 55+ years.

-- Waco (is@just.ok), October 10, 1999.

Hey Space,

What's your trip sarge? Not a real Cav scout? Where do you get off saying that? You don't know me from Adam. I WAS a 19D, TOW qualified, lived on an M113 for 3 yrs at Ft.Bliss. So it took me a whole 30 seconds to remember that PSG meant platoon sergeant and post back to you? I've been out for 10 years so excuse me if I'm rusty on my acronyms. BTW, I was calling MYSELF an idiot for not remembering, if you didn't get that. I also didn't have any other questions for you. I respect your service just as much as the next man, but don't think you can figure me out over the net. You owe me an apology, sergeant. I'm leaving my real e-mail addy in case you'd like to use it.

-- (ex-E5) Mark A. Troth (cavscout@fix.net), October 10, 1999.

waco- You're still a jerk ("nice job on cavscout"), and I can't believe YOU were in the military with your attitude. Waco wasn't some firefight against a foreign enemy, they were Americans, get it? It doesn't matter if they were "religious fanatics". It takes all kinds, I guess......

-- Mark (cavscout@fix.net), October 10, 1999.

Mark

Yours word regarding figuring me out on the net are so true. All of us are quick to jump each other without a clue as to the person behind the post. That being said I would like to respond to your statement:

Waco wasn't some firefight against a foreign enemy, they were Americans, get it? It doesn't matter if they were "religious fanatics".

American religious fanatics that oppose the laws of the land are domestic enemies, and pose a greater threat than the foreign variety, IMHO. To suggest that we sanction unrestricted activities by these groups is to invite the destruction of our society. The tough call is where is the line and who will define it? You have my apology if you were personally offended by my remarks concerning cavscout. I remain very close to the military community and my attitude is shared by many. I have no respect for our current leadership but I treasure our form of government and am confident that we will survive intact.

-- Waco (is@just.ok), October 10, 1999.

Waco-

Thank you for your last post. I too made the mistake of so many of us, (including Space), and tried to form an opinion of you from your posts, but, as you said it's next to impossible, especially after only a few posts. You sound like a reasonable person, but I really have to disagree with you regarding Waco. When Waco was unfolding, I was more or less in favor of anything the government did, and my opinion was like "just blow them out of there, they're a bunch of nuts". In the years since, however, I've come to realize that our government has slowly been stripping away our civil liberties, and all of the police organizations have been given powers that are unneccesary, and in some cases, unconstitutional. I agree that domestic terrorism is a threat, but as you say, where does one draw the line? Were the Branch Davidians domestic terrorists, or were they simply paranoid religious zealots? Last time I checked, there was no law against being paranoid. If you research the Waco case, I think that you will find that most of the allegations against them by the FBI and ATF were later proven false. They may have broken some minor gun laws, but that's not a reason to immolate 80 people. And recent revelations raise doubts about who fired on whom, in the opening moments of the firefight. I just think that we should be damned careful about what power we give to which agencies, and who we allow them to use it on.

-- mark (cavscout@fix.net), October 10, 1999.

O.K., I was probably a little hasty, and it was another thread that I carried an attitude from. Any individual that percieved me as being disrespectful deserves an apology, and I offer it. This forum is the last place on earth that I would show disrespect to, including all individuals with the insight to be here. Open (and sometimes heated) discussion is what we come here for. We search for the truth, and attempt to sort through information looking for it. Opinions are much more available, and mine are of no more value than anyone else's. But I need to here yours, and that's why I'm here.

-- space (hood@thunk.it), October 10, 1999.

Space,

Thanks.

-- cavscout (nuffsaid@nohard.feelings), October 10, 1999.

Mark, you said:

'I just think that we should be damned careful about what power we give to which agencies, and who we allow them to use it on.'

That sums it up quite nicely.

-- Waco (is@somewhat.ok), October 10, 1999.

Waco, you shouldn't use that name lightly! Eighty men, women and children died there at the hands of their, our, government. Let me ask you this all-important question: where did you get your misinformation that the people in the church community at Waco were in any way a danger to our country? The fact is that they were not in any manner threatening anyone else, and that they lived very quietly in harmony with one another and the surrounding community. If the government wanted to arrest their leader, David Koresh, they could have very easily done so on any given day, since they had informants within the church complex (it was not a "compound!") and they knew, as did the whole area, that Koresh jogged every morning, often stopped for coffee at a local coffee shop, shopped in town, and was a licensed gun dealer to help support his followers' community, and could have been gotten outside the shelter that housed 85 innocent human beings!!! They chose instead, because the ATF was coming up for re-funding and wasn't highly thought of and was losing its high profile, to drum it up into an all-out assault on these people! Did you know that the actual sole charge against this man at the time of their debacle was that he owed $200 in taxes on a gun?!?!

Let me quote you just a small, scarey segment from the book, which you really ought to read, "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross:

"The ATF had realized how it would sound if they admitted that they had sent three helicopter gunships and 100 agents armed with grendades and machine guns to attack 85 men, women and children over a $200 tax matter. A different 'spin' was needed, and fast. The federal gaency had immediately started explaining that their raid would have gone off 'perfectly' if the Branch Davidians had not been forewarned. The ATF then jusitifed their actions by telling the public that David Koresh thought he was Jesus, had multiple wives, and was having sex with most of the women in the camp, epsecially underage ones. They also said other child abuse was suspected, and implied that it was this concern which had required such urgent and violent action. The ATF did not explain why a federal tax agency was involved in these areas in the first place, let alone with explosives and machine guns. THe ATF also failed to elucidate how their concerns for the safety of two dozen children within a wooden building squared with their firing over seven thousand rounds of ammunition, much of it armor piercing, into the same structure. In the disastrous initial raid, the ATF had suffered twenty casualties, and the Branch Davidians even more. All Davidian casualties and two-thirds of ATF's were casued by ATF bullets... Compounding this monumental embarrassment were several other revelations. The first was that the search warrant authorizing the raid did not show probable cause. It listed non-NFA firearms and parts that were legal to own with no federal registration or federal taxes... The second revelation was that the ATF had lied to Texas officials in order to borrow three Texas National Guard helicopter gunships in the raid. Texas law prohibited lending state-controlled aircraft to federal agencies except in drug cases. In order to get approval, the ATF had told state officials that the Branch Davidians were operating a methamphetamine lab within the compound. When copies of the search warrant were were made public, there was no mention of drugs, and the lie was obvious."

This is just for starters! I suggest that you also visit the website www.wacomuseum.com for more graphic details...plan on spending a few hours reading and viewing the horror story and photos there. But do it on an empty stomach...it will make you ill, if you are human.

Our government is not permitted to attack its own citizens with military forces...PERIOD!!! There is NO justification for what was done to these innocent people in that church community.

If one does not like their religious teachings, then one does not have to accept them. Unlike most cults, these individuals were not kept there by force, by any threats, but were participating voluntarily in a chosen lifestyle. But they should have been permitted to practice their beliefs according to their God-given and (supposedly) Constitutionally-guaranteed rights to freedom of religion, speech, assembly, etc. Their Second Amendment right assured them, until that awful siege, that they were sanctioned to exercise these God-given rights in defending themselves against such attack. But they could not protect themselves against gunships, tanks, grenades, gas that kills, nightly horror as they were bombarded with the sounds of offensive things, such as rabbits being tortured to death, from loudspeakers set up by their attackers. And each time these people tried to negotiate, they were driven more inside their home and negotiation made nearly impossible. Have you seen the film "Waco: Rules of Engagement" (I'll lend you my copy!!), where they hang bedsheets out the windows, begging for the press to come to their rescue...the press that was being held a mile away, so they couldn't see the worst actions of the attackers?!?

Time you did a reality check, friend. Unless you are one of the thugs like those who followed Hitler, clearing out all "undesirables" so that their clones could inherit the earth!

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), October 10, 1999.

Liberty, keep on posting these hard truths that American citizens need to hear! Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all that you have alerted us to on this forum. My life will never be the same due to the rude awakenings you continually provide. I hope my actions will bear this out, as I write to legislators and inform others.

May God bless you for your efforts, and bless your efforts. I see you as a Paul Revere, calling out an alert to us.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), October 10, 1999.

Elaine, I have read enough of your posts to realize that you are a spun-out religious fanatic that would sanction any activity under the cloak of religion. If you seriously believe that our government killed those Davidians inside the compound then you are disturbed and delusional. You might consider changing your life again with professional help.

-- Waco (was@not.Hitler), October 10, 1999.

Whoever wrote that pathetically stupid, and ignorant post about how "Waco was not Hitler" (which is a syntactical absurdity I might add), I want to tell you something from one Atheist to another--

YOU ARE SICK!!!

And one doesn't have to be an atheist, or a Christian, or a Buddist to know hatred when one sees it. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

-- Totally outraged (outraged@your.ignorance), October 11, 1999.

Outraged

Could you be more focused on just what it is that you are so upset about. Ive read your post a couple of times and still am not sure why you are so disturbed, unless of course this is a lifelong condition. Lets see if we can help you to clarify some points:

(1). My handle, Waco (is@not.Hitler), was in response to the posting above that suggests a similarity between our government forces at Waco and Hitlers troops. I find it repulsive when these religious fanatics keep comparing our governments actions to those of Hitlers. You want outrage, you got it!

(2). You might be an Atheist but you dont know anything about me so dont for a second assume that I am not of faith. This may come as a shock to you but the over the edge, brainwashed, religious fanatical zombies make up a very small percentage of people of faith. For many of these sickos, it is not about religion at all, just an excuse for their disturbed views and actions. Most of them are societal outcasts and this gives them a tool for revenge. Most people treasure their faith as a very personal thing, not to be brayed about on every street corner.

As to being ashamed, I am. Im ashamed that I am wasting these precious minutes to respond to an idiot like yourself. I would respect your opinion if I COULD FIGURE OUT WHAT IT IS.

-- Waco (is@still.ok), October 11, 1999.

Waco: You said of me, "Elaine, I have read enough of your posts to realize that you are a spun-out religious fanatic that would sanction any activity under the cloak of religion. If you seriously believe that our government killed those Davidians inside the compound then you are disturbed and delusional. You might consider changing your life again with professional help. "

You really have quite a nerve!!! First of all, NONE of my posts indicates a "spun out religious fanatic," because I am neither spun out or a religious fanatic. I have a healthy Christian viewpoint that is both rational and generally considered 'acceptable' by even atheists!

Secondly, I would NEVER "sanction anything under the cloak of 'religion!" What have I ever said, all you regulars who know my postings, that would indicate such a thing? Answer is NOTHING! In fact, my post says the exact opposite: that nothing should ever be sanctioned which is harmful to other American citizens, and that those people in the Branch Davidian homestead should have been allowed to practice whatever religion they chose without interference! This would hardly be the stance of someone who thought that others should be blown away because they do not practice MY brand of religion!!

Finally, if YOU do not believe that our government killed those Davidians, then you are delusional and YOU need the psychiatric help! Or at least to READ UP, nasty man!

And I may add here that I think that you are a plant here, who comes here when the words WACO or RUBY RIDGE or other trigger words calls for a debunker to defend the actions of a couple of agencies of the government, and their leader who sanctioned this slaughter.

Did my quotations upset you that much? Then I feel mighty proud. With my sound mind and my decent soul!

-- Waco (was@not.Hitler), October 10, 1999.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

Waco,

American religious fanatics that oppose the laws of the land are domestic enemies, and pose a greater threat than the foreign variety, IMHO. To suggest that we sanction unrestricted activities by these groups is to invite the destruction of our society.

How about changing the word 'religous' to 'political'? Wouldn't that describe our current administration and the alphabet agencies that operate underneath it?

These people work for us dammit. They exist only with 'the just consent of the governed'. WE set the rules by which they are allowed to operate and WE have not only the right, but the obligation of making sure they don't cross the line of Consitutional restictions placed on them, no matter how many men were shot in the initial raid.

I'm no Koresh supporter; I have no idea if he was innocent or guilty of the charges alleged against him. But he was an American Citizen and as such he was entitled to the protections of the Constitution which were denied him by the government, our governemnt.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), October 11, 1999.

Elaine,

Get a grip God's little sheep. If the government were to allow all you religous fanatics to start these huge cults and have free love and orgies all over the place and worship false gods like Koresh then the result would be very much like what all of the people were doing when Moses broke the tablets of the 10 Commandments. So think of it this way, the FBI is playing the role of Moses because they don't want all these sickos like Koresh going around telling people to worship him and raping pre-pubescent girls and breaking all of the 10 Commandments.

-- @ (@@@.@), October 11, 1999.

Who murdered? Who lied? Who covered up their murderes? Who is claiming the "evil" in the man the government murdered?

@.@ You are rabid in your claims that this man was so evil - are you blind to the corruption and proven illegal actions of those who killed him - and of 80 others? Why do you believe what the apologists for the Clintons' are saying? What credibiity to they bring to the table?

@.@: What evidence, what proof do you offer that the FBI/ATF EVER had evidence of meth. being manufactored? That ANY illegal automatic weapons were in the compound? That ANY "evil" was committed save the single (and questionable at that) 200.00 fee on a single LEGAL weapon? (The compound WAS a legal weapons dealer doing legal sales of a legal product, or do you wish toignore that fact .....)

What evidence do bring that ANY of your claims of "illegal" sex occurred - and since you support the Clintons' - why do you CARE what Koresh did - even assuming he did it? Are you going to then invade the White House because Clinton is a rapist? (There IS evidence he is a serial rapist - assaulting innocents in both Arkansas and in the UK. There is NO evidence any of your claims is true....except that from the Clintons.)

---

You claim the government had the right, the duty even to eliminate these people. Why? You visciously condemn the "Hitler" comparison; but when je was first elected, his followers only had their victims clean theirown broken glass off of the streets. Mass murder at the hands of the government police came only later.

One could say the Clintons at least saved time: they began mass murder of undesireables immediately on being elected.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), October 11, 1999.

Robert,

"What credibiity to they bring to the table?"

They've got the tapes where you can clearly hear the Davidians starting the fires. They were brainwashed into believing that taking their own lives would be a better fate than coming out and facing the music like the rest of us do. Really not much different than the Heaven's Gate tragedy except that Applewhite had the balls to stand by his beliefs, unlike that faggot scum Koresh.

-- @ (@@@.@), October 11, 1999.

Hmmmn.

And we have tapes of Clinton himself telling his mistresses to lie? But you believe Clinton. And we have tapes of Clinton's mistresses telling their friends to lie? And of the Clintons' insiders (such as Morris) deliberately telling others in the administrations and cabinet to lie to cover up embarressing details.

You believe absolutely the Clintons' lies in their coverup - while able to look at videotape blantantly showing their lies about how the attacks were done and who led the attacks - but absolutely believe a unverified, unsubstantiated, unproveable "tape recording" from the same sources ... now, just who has a stake in convincing you that Koresh is as as you describe?

Who has the motivation to lie? The proven abilitity, attitude, and reason for lying to the public?

But you believe - without evidence - exactly what the Clintons' administration tells you...conveniently (again) after all his opposing witnesses are murdered....and deliberately slander a murdered man - and you declare the murdered man to be "worth murdering - based only on the credibility and character testimony of ????? only the Clintons' themselves!

The Nazi's were more efficient too - they at least used the gold plundered from their victims teeth to finance their war efforts ... the Clintons only wasted more federal money bulldozing the evidence.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), October 11, 1999.

I think it should be clear to all at this point that in "Waco" and "@" we are dealing with feral humans. They are as loyal as dogs to an unconstitutional federal bureaucracy that now murders U.S. Citizens at it's pleasure, and with total impunity. These two thugs identify with this death machine, as does a dog with it's master. The current ascendency of unlawful federal power therefore gives them a giddy thrill: it's the killer's day-in-the-sun, and they feel free to rub our noses in their atrocity. Do you dare to speak a word in protest? They attack YOU: if you are religious, then you are a fanatic, and classed with "pedophiles." This IS Nazi logic, it's precisely what was done to the jews.

Note that they ignore protestations of fact, and respond by implying that YOU, a religious nut, are the problem, and may well be dealt with NEXT. The threat is obvious. Take it seriously. Remember it. Find out who these people are in your community. If and when the fed makes a move toward a locked-down, unconstitutional police state, you will need to know who they are. They will be turning over the names of "religious nuts" or "terrorist sympathizers" like us.

Their disgusting behavior here is not only a warning for the future; it helps us understand the simmering day-to-day hatred and love of violence that allowed nazi atrocities, and other events like those in Stalinist Russia, to occur. All it takes is a critical mass of vicious, loud-mouthed people who are unquestioningly loyal to authority (whether or not that authority is moral or lawful) and ready to stifle debate with hateful accusations, and eventually, inevitably, violence.

I say in all seriousness and sobriety: know who these people are in your communities. Watch them carefully. If the day comes when America is occupied by a domestic enemy (and I'm afraid it will, whether under the pretext of biowarfare or Y2k), be aware of these people's actions, and hold them accountable.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 11, 1999.

As for the audio tapes that have been interpreted as the Davidians "setting fires," listen to them again.

They're making molotov cocktails. Fuel bombs.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 11, 1999.

Haaa haaaa ha haa ha, you guys crack me up! First of all if you've ever read any of my other posts you know that I am overwhelmingly opposed to most of the things that our government does. I just don't buy it in this case. They've got all kinds of evidence. You on the other hand keep fabricating all of these paranoid delusions that evrything the government did in this incident was part of some huge conspiracy. Listen, the SWAT guys and ATF and FBI guys out there were scared too. They may not always handle these things in the most friendly matter, but they also feel kinda threatened standing outside of a compound loaded with a bunch of loonies with an arsenal at their disposal. Secondly, Cook keeps beating around the bush and changing the subject back to Clinton to use the Monica scandal as some kind of proof that everything he does is evil. That is utterly laughable! You're trying to say that raping little girls is no worse than a little oral gratification between 2 consenting adults? Hah! Give me a break. Believe what you like guys, sorry I'm not buying it this time. End of story, what's the next on your list of evil deeds by Mr. Clinton? I suppose you also subscribe to the theory some have proposed that he is going to drop a bomb on the United States and destroy us all!! LOL!!! Haaa ha haa ha haaaaa, Haa haa ha!!!!

-- @ (@@@.@), October 11, 1999.

@ you say that the fedgov has audio tapes that show the Davidians "starting the fires". Have you listened to them?? I have seen the FLIR tape that shows gunfire being directed towards the compound coming from very near the "tanks" that were ramming the building as the loudspeakers blared "This is NOT an assault". It doesn't get any more hypocritical than that.

Oh, and what happened to the front door?? You know, the METAL front door... the kind that doesn't burn...it would be conclusive evidence of who fired first IF it wasn't lost. I would lay a hefty bet that that door would show NO rounds going out of the building; only incoming. But the criminals, I mean perpatrator's, I mean the Accused happen to be part of the same Fedgov that "investigated" their own actions.

I would say that '@' and 'Waco' are not capable of accepting the possibitity that the fedgov are the criminals here. They simply cannot accept it.

Liberty- Again I fully agree with what you have written. I would like to correspond with you some more about similar issues. Please feel free to e-mail me. My address is real.

-- Brent James Bushardt (brentj@webt.com), October 11, 1999.

> Cook keeps ...changing the subject back to Clinton to use the Monica scandal as some kind of proof that everything he does is evil.

I don't see that, @. I see him pointing out the BAREFACED LIES, the UNREPENTANT DISHONESTY and the ARROGANCE OF POWER that these indicate. It doesn't matter what he was lying about. The FBI lied about and concealed evidence - and not for the first time. Hubble lied about Clinton's approval of the assault plan. That's the point of this post, originally: Clinton knew. We're tired of being lied to, and with "Martial Law Lite" being sold to us like soda pop, we're saying we've had enough. Get it? You can only lie to people and dump on them and desecrate their Constitution for so long. Time's just about up.

> they also feel kinda threatened standing outside of a compound loaded with a bunch of loonies with an arsenal at their disposal.

As well they might. As well they might. For their own good, they had better watch where they stand, from here on. And they had better watch whose faces they shoot off, and whose churches they burn down, and whose remains they urinate on (as they did at Waco). Because as I said, we've had enough already.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 11, 1999.

"Because as I said, we've had enough already."

Ooooooooo, and what are YOU going to do about it? Clinton lied, Bush lied, Reagan lied, Carter lied, and on and on, aaaaaall the way back to good ole' George! So what are YOU gonna do? The reason they cover this crap up is because they are fed up with listening to whiners like you screaming bloody murder every time they take a breath!! Get a life!

-- @ (@@@.@), October 11, 1999.

Don't blow an O-ring there, @.

Clinton is the first to take money from the Communist Chinese. Hundreds and hundreds of dollars! That's quite a distinguishing accomplishment, wouldn't you say? The proof of this accomplishment can be found in the books "Year of the Rat" and "Betrayal." Get 'em at Barnes and Noble. He's been on the Communist Chinese payroll since before he was governor of Arkansas. Which is more chilling, the fact that this is a matter of public record, or that the mainstream media won't report it? As Americans we are in deep darkness NOW. The wolf isn't at the door - he's in the nursery.

FEMA can now command the U.S. Armed forces on America's soil, against Americans. We've seen what they do, at Waco; they are for killing, not helping. This is a pivotal development. It is the ushering in of a police state. And it's going to lead to a second American civil war.

I think those of us who have been following Clinton's career with interest have no difficulty imagining him attempting to prolong his presidency indefinitely, and establish an essentially socialist ("the free market may not be the best way to deliver goods" - Koskinen) "emergency government." It's hard to imagine Jimmy Carter, or Reagan, doing the same.

If anyone wants to inform themselves of the deeper political dimensions of all of this, there's no better place than freerepublic.com. Just type it into your browser. Especially fine is their "China Guide" on their "Latest Posts" page. Outstanding, top-of the-line fact-based reporting.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 11, 1999.

"fed up with listening to whiners like you screaming bloody murder every time they take a breath!! Get a life!"

Screaming bloody murder everytime they take a Life! Now to catch my breath....

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), October 12, 1999.

Begin quote:

Space. Scuse the delay in responding to your question. Yah, Im reasonably well armed but so are millions of Americans and to compare the Waco incident with everyone that owns weapons is quite a stretch. I spent 10 years in service, a few in the nasty place, so Im not like some of the phony wannabes that frequent this forum (BTW, nice work on cavscout). Ill agree that the initial BATF actions against the Branch Davidians were firearm related but there was much more to the big picture. How would you react if you had lost 4 squad buds in the initial firefight? Sounds like you have enough hash marks to know that when TSHTF, there aint no stinking rules. If the crazies of the world are allowed to run amok, you might find THEM at your door, not the government. Ive had my share of problems with the law and am enough of a man to admit my faults and pay the piper. Our government is not always right but it beats the shit out of anything else Ive seen in my 55+ years.

-- Waco (is@just.ok), October 10, 1999.

End quote.

And, Waco, just how do you explain the fact that your four squad buds were all shot in the same place (under the left ear, as I recall)? I don't have the url for where I got that, but I'm sure you could find it with a search engine without too much trouble. (Now that I think of it, you might start here: http://www.devvy.com/index.html and check out some of the stuff about Mr. Clinton. Begin with the link about strange deaths associated with Mr. Clinton.)

In other words, I think you gulped down the hook, line and sinker of the government's explanation of what happened, and didn't even slow down to think about it. Knee jerk reaction or something.

George

-- George Valentine (georgevalentine@usa.net), October 12, 1999.

FEMA, military reorganized to martial law the homeland, Delta Force, Urban Warrior exercises, all come together for Y2K. Can you see it yet? Right in front of you.

-- old regular (reading@TB2K.now), October 12, 1999.