The outspoken ridicule of leaders toward people who want to take Y2K precautions has very long and tight tenacles. Those tenacles have extended into my immediate family and have taken my loved ones into their relentless grasp. The natural power of denial in human beings has an even stronger grip yet.

And I'm throwing in the towel at this point.

I'm a GI. I know the potential consequences of y2k disruptions. I have assessed the likelihood of them happening as being VERY high. I believe that I am very well informed and have been balanced in my approach to obtaining detailed technical information.

But I am a quitter and, arguably, a coward at this point.

I have not been able to convince my significant other, resident young-adult child, or resident brother to leave our urban abode (in the heart of one of THE MOST vulnerable cities) for a retreat during roll-over. And it's almost too late to prepare a retreat.

I cannot force them to "take vacation" during rollover and risk dismissal from hard-earned jobs. I cannot force them to contribute money to the preps. I cannot convince them to have even a modest amount of precautionary money on hand. I cannot convince them to read articles I print out. I've done what I can in prepping for all of us alone, but as a secondary wage earner, these preps are paltry at best.

I'm exhausted. I'm out of moral courage, and out of ideas. My spirit has been broken by the ridicule that is heaped upon me for the past 8 months for wanting to take this one prudent precaution of leaving our urban area, even just temporarily. I'm ready to face the unpleasant and possibly severe consequences of being ill-prepared in a volatile environment rather than face the prospect of going against democratic rule in our ever peaceful household. If Y2K turns out to be a BITR, and I am wrong about it's impact (but have disrupted my family) then I will spend my remaining years the subject of more ridicule, ongoing discredit, and quiet snickers among those I love so dearly. (Especially my child.)

Y2K *could* be a BITR, although I STRONGLY doubt it. But I'm willing to admit that I don't know and nobody knows for sure.

I wish I had more courage. I wish I could call my family's bluff with a wall of conviction, and announce that I'm leaving the area alone if need be. But I cannot bear the thought of being away from my loved ones in a time of potential crisis. I'd rather suffer consequences with them.

I've often wondered how many others are in this position. Quiet but anquished lurkers.

It's like nausea. You cannot get comfortable in any position.

-- (resigned@this.point), October 09, 1999

Answers

By the way -- anybody has permission to print this letter anywhere they want, whether to support their further polly-ridicule, or to point out the y2k dilemma that individuals face.

Like I say, I'm...

-- (resigned@this.point), October 09, 1999.

Please don't give up, your family may not need you but the rest of humanity does. Remember the strength that got you this far; this strength has been handed down to you from untold generations, it can serve you well. You owe it to yourself if not your family to keep going, life after all is worth living.

-- Will (sibola@hotmail.com), October 09, 1999.

The few, the brave, the informed, the Y2k preppers. I am in the same boat as you are. My wife, my father, my brother, whom I love dearly and do not want to burn bridges with, will remain on the other side of the river until the light at the other end of the tunnel is upon us. I'M HOLDING TO MY GUNS NONETHELESS! Rice and Beans baby and the water to cook'em. Breath deep and stretch and look within. Nobody enjoys a game of blindman's bluff but it is like everything inevitable. Think of it as Darwinism. When your tie your hands behind your back, everyone, including the ones close to you, will smack you in the face because you made it possible. That is a lesson they want you to learn. Love does not need to be conditional. If it is, then you need to re- establish your own conditions for relating with the one's close to you. They may not appreciate you as much as they do a doormat but they'll respect you a whole lot more when you stand your ground. Ask them if they want to play russian roulette. If they say no, then tell them to shut the F up.

-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), October 09, 1999.

The few, the brave, the informed, the Y2k preppers. I am in the same boat as you are. My wife, my father, my brother, whom I love dearly and do not want to burn bridges with, will remain on the other side of the river until the light at the other end of the tunnel is upon us. I'M HOLDING TO MY GUNS NONETHELESS! Rice and Beans baby and the water to cook'em. Breath deep and stretch and look within. Nobody enjoys a game of blindman's bluff but it is like everything inevitable. Think of it as Darwinism. When your tie your hands behind your back, everyone, including the ones close to you, will smack you in the face because you made it possible. That is a lesson they want you to learn. Love does not need to be conditional. If it is, then you need to re- establish your own conditions for relating with the one's close to you. They may not appreciate you as much as they do a doormat but they'll respect you a whole lot more when you stand your ground. Ask them if they want to play russian roulette. If they say no, then tell them to shut the F up then.

-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), October 09, 1999.

If you believe that your family's life could be at stake,have you tried ultimatums?How much pull does your wife's commitment to you marriage have?If you told her to come on vacation during the rollover,after which it'll never be an issue again but she must have enough faith in you to leave the city temporarily.If not your marriage is a sham and you're better off living.Don't die a fools death.

-- Apokoliptik (Apokoliptik@yahoo.com), October 09, 1999.

I'm truly sorry your family doesn't treat you with the same fond indulgence exhibited by Sweetie and my son towards me--and by me towards them. If I were in your position, I'd capitulate too. You can't do anything else. If they're right, then you'll be okay. If they're wrong, well, you'll still have what preps you managed to put together, which puts you ahead of the crowd anyway.

One bit of advice. Try substituting "won't" for "can't" in your post above. "Can't" is such a powerless word. If you say "won't," then at least you know you're taking charge and not blaming anyone but yourself for your decision. If things ARE a problem next year, then the last thing you want is a lot of anger and hostility directed at your loved ones. YOU have decided on this course of action, stick with it, make no recriminations--make the best of it.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 09, 1999.

My family thought I was crazy when I started stocking up for y2k. I let them know right quick I was doing it for them and it was my house and I could do what I wanted. Case closed. My DH was very skeptical for a long time. With the big decisions like paying off the house, or relocating, my dh and I discussed it together and made a decision. The little decisions like what to buy for storage and how much, I made myself. It didn't occur to me to have to ask. Ask your children? What for? This is your and your spouse decision and if the two of you are at odds, something is not right besides y2k.

-- Carol (glear@usa.net), October 09, 1999.

Earlier this year, when my wife was still wavering, I told her this:

As your husband and the father of your children, I have an obligation and a duty to protect you. I have identified what I believe to be a credible threat and I 'm taking these steps to fulfill my marriage vows and my responsibities as a father. If I were not to do so, I would not be a man. If I didn't make these preparations, and things turned bad, you would not respect me as a man. You have trusted my judgment in this relationship for 15 years. I ask you to trust me now. I've never acted irrationally, I've never made rash decisions, except deciding after dating you for two weeks to ask you to marry me. If I'm wrong and nothing happens, I've wasted some money. I've I'm right and do nothing, we may have wasted our children's lives.

Or somethin' to that 'ere effect. She hasn't disputed with me since.

-- Kurt Ayau (Ayau@iwinet.com), October 09, 1999.

y2k prep-quitter: thank you for your eloquent and anguished letter. and for permission to share with others. you are not alone. i pray for a solution for you. may additional resources come to your side. people can change... even at the last minute.

-- (hope@keep.calm), October 09, 1999.

Dear Resigned,

I'm in the same position as you are and I know exactly how you feel, especially when you said: "I'm ready to face the unpleasant and possibly severe consequences of being ill-prepared in a volatile environment rather than face the prospect of going against democratic rule in our ever peaceful household" Doesn't that just make you feel like an weak idiot? I'd rather freeze that listen to my Dad yell at me one more time about how the chimney in our house is capped and we can't use the woodstoves that I bought. I'm sorry for you Resigned. I know it's the most frustrating and absurd position you've ever been in in your life. I send sympathy vibes your way and to everyone else who is in our position.

XXXOOO

-- Jean Shift (jean@aol.com), October 09, 1999.

Well, You DO have power over some of your own money right? Well, go ahead and put some water jugs in your room, extra toilet paper and whatever else you think will run low. Olive oil from Italy? If china has any problems, and shipping has problems, where are your next sneakers coming from and at what price? So, buy them now instead of in the year 00. That goes for all manner of clothes, socks ect. Face it, costs WILL go up! Availability WILL go down. That is enough of a disaster for many people. And, gas problems, (certain), are a disaster for MANY americans because of the spread out lifestyles many live. (Miles from shopping, Miles from foodstores, Miles from all the activities of the kids, Miles from work, ect ect ect.) If the utilities DO work, there are plenty of other problems that will annoy and alter the lavish american party going on. It may not be your families lIFE that is threatened, but certainly thier lifestyle is. Face it, If YOU are able to find your way to love the folks you are with, and find your joy there, you will do better when the lifestyle descends in poverty's direction.

If the heating oil is unavailable or very expensive, wont it be good that you spent 30$ for a propane heater? And, who will look in your bags when you bring them to your room filled with foods you dont mind eating later anyway. Any harm in stocking up on the cereal you like? Maybe go out on a limb and get some dry powdered milk. It is so cheap, you can always give it to a shelter later. Any problem with getting yourself a really good warm outfit? Extra long johns? Hats? those knit ones that you can share if it is cold? They are REAL cheap, give them as christmas presents! Stock up on whatever you like and if you have some infants around, why not at least buy some foodstuff and store that? Spend 20$ plus on the little one and put it aside to give in the spring if your area is ok. And buy some diapers too. The stores may run out just from the 3 day store folks buying!

Buy some 5 or 2 and 1/2 gallon gas cans and fill them and have them around if your families DO decide to leave later and gas stations are out. Your gas supply will propel them out to another better area. You be the smart boy scout. In other words, BE PREPARED.

Please join in the january threads here and let us know how you are doing.

-- billburke (bill52@rocketmail.com), October 09, 1999.

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." -Albert Einstein

Continue to do what you know in your heart to be correct. NO ONE can fault you for trying to protect the ones that you love. And if you can't force them to move, then staying with them and protecting them the best you can for now is completely honorable. You are not choosing cowardice, you are choosing honor and love for your family.

My inlaws think I'm retarded. They've seen my food and guns and surely think I'm off my rocker. To bad for them. I will try to help them as best I can when TSHTF, but when push comes to shove, my family comes first.

I have written off numerous relatives. I'm not willing to piss upwind trying to get them to get off the schneid. My face got wet for a while and one day I decided I didn't like the feeling of warning someone about a danger and having them ridicule me for it.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein

-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), October 09, 1999.

resigned, I'm in the same boat- a family of DWGIs. Fortunately, I don't live in the city. I keep prepping and if they don't like it- TS. Can you come up with a "country" contingency plan? Try to find somebody that will help you if needed. Then make sure you have enough gas to get there. I know this isn't much help but my real point is don't give up. Be creative. There is always another option.

-- (rcarver@inacom.com), October 09, 1999.

Resigned,

Thanks for sharing your feelings and your situation. I am in a similar situation, but my feelings about it are just a little different.

I would like to second Old Git, I think her advice makes sense. Beyond that I have a few things to add about my personal approach to this situation which many of us are experiencing.

When I first learned about y2k last Dec. I was in a great deal of emotional turmoil, stress, grief, disbelief, fear, worry and panic. I gathered information for a full month until I felt very sure of my facts. Then I tried to get people to learn these facts and listen to my concerns. I only approached my immediate family and friends.

My partner and 19 year old son both completely refused to read about it, had formed opinions of their own that it would only be a BITR, and refused to listen to any further discussion of it. During this early period they were very angry at me for trying to convince them otherwise.

Other friends and family were more tolerant and kind about it, but ultimately did not share my views. My sister is doing some preps and one friend is doing some preps. But no one feels willing or able to leave the city. I can see that for some it is a monumental task and they are just not up to it. For others, they simply do not take it that seriously.

My mother was very sympathetic and helped me to prep for 3 months. This was very kind of her, but she still does not share my views.

I had considered trying to leave temporarily but it would be impossible to get the temporary place supplied and off the grid. To me, this is not an acceptable route, to be stranded away from what supplies we have with no way to get home. The only viable alternative to me is to sell the house and move, or buy a second shelter and stock it and everyone agree to go there. Neither of these are possible for us.

My partner says that he would not want to live in a world that has suffered a breakdown. He would rather die. But I think he only says this because he just does not see the threat of y2k as real. He has been to war, and he is a survivor. The real problem is that he is an eternal optimist about the system. It has been good to him, and he likes his work in it, and he likes the life it provides. He does not believe it could be that bad. I know he loves his children dearly and would never let them suffer if he really thought something would hurt them, so I realized that he just does not see what I see, and never will, no matter how much he reads about it.

As for my son, he can not imagine surviving a breakdown because he was born and raised in the modern age and used a computer since he was 4 years old. Y2K is simply off his radar screen, and he is full of hopes, dreams, plans and a sense of invincibility that is so common to the young. He is going to school to become a programmer and sharest the eternal optimism that his father does about technology and science and our age of unlimited opportunity.

The first thing I learned from my efforts to speak to them were these biases that had to do with the individual involved. I could go on and relate the biases and needs and world views of others I talked to and the way it kept them from hearing me.

But there was something even more going on here, and it has been shared on many threads where we discuss the reasons why some get it and so many others don't. We are continually frustrated by it, but when we discuss it, many very understandable issues come out. The fact of widespread denial and dismissal of y2k does have some very good reasons.

To name some of them, the role of the media and how most people do not have the time to research every issue and depend on the media, on govt, on industry to clue them in when something is wrong. The stake that govt and industry have in misleading people. There is the technical nature of y2k, which I have found to be a considerable barrier when dealing with my computer and internet challenged friends.

The fact that the information is mainly found on the internet excludes many people who either do not have access or have difficulty in doing internet research. There is the fact that y2k is something different than has ever happened in our history and demonstrates for those of us who study it that our world has changed a great deal in the last few years to become much more interconnected, computerized, automated, and vulnerable than ever before. Most people have formed their views of how the world works back in school and from tv. There is no real appreciation of JIT or embedded systems without a great deal of study.

I am a person who likes to study and research, but many others do not have time nor inclination to study, learn, do extensive research on a problem. And with y2k, the issues do require a steep learning curve and much repetition to really get the ideas for most people.

Finding out that our life support systems are vulnerable to long term disruption is very frightening. My own struggle with the emotional and psychological difficulties of y2k have shown me that it is not an easy thing to do. In fact, most people are going to choose denial rather than face something so completely overwhelming. Easier to deny it is a problem at all than to do anything at all that might lend it some credibility. I must fight denial myself so I know this is not easy to do, and most people are just not able to handle thinking about it.

We already live in a world full of threats, we have learned about nuclear war, destruction of the environment, and we live every day with many things that threaten us each day with a spectacle of global destruction. Most people have already created a mindset that can get up every day and live with the possibility of nuclear war in deep denial, just so that they can function. If asked, they would say they would not want to live if war came, and will do nothing to prepare. The state of our world has forced people to become good at daily denial so that what they know does not interfere. In addition, they are bombarded daily with concerns on the news and in the mail which demand their attention. They learn to ruthlessly protect their space from the homeless, the wars, the hate crimes, the disasters, and the signs all around of the world coming apart. Y2K just becomes one more voice in the crowd that is demanding attention and time they do not have, or are unwilling to give up.

Ashton and Aleska recently described the additional factor that is happening with y2k even more so with other issues. Community activists have described it as well. The intensity of the reaction is so huge and so common that something extraordinary must be at work here. Some break out into a complete fit, a tantrum of monumental proportions, that seems completely beyond any usual anger involved in normal disagreements. I do not pretend to know what it is, this strange factor, but it literally feels like something has gotten into them, and has taken them over. They do not react in any manor that I might have predicted from previous experience with them.

Given the widespread nature of these reactions to y2k and the many reasonable issues interfering in this situation, I realize that the people I am trying to talk to and convince have very little chance of changing their minds. I realized this early, thank goodness for myself, and thanks to listening to many other stories like mine and community organizers. These experiences told me that this situation is not under my control. And I am not responsible for what goes on in the minds of other people. I have done everything that I can, and any more words on my part would clearly be, not only useless, but an unwelcome attack as perceived by others.

It's as if I were trying to convert them to some religion rather than asking them to read a govt report. But that is how they are acting, and I must respect it, if I am to respect their right to their own opinions and decisions, even if their choice turns out to be a mistake that results in their deaths.

Once I realized this, I completely stopped trying to talk to them and never bring up y2k now. This situation is very difficult for me. Now it is my turn to decide what I am going to do in this situation. Like you, I arrived at the choice of staying with them. I realize this might mean my death, or great suffering, but I know I will not leave my children, even to live. If they are mistakenly stepping into harms way, I must be here to face the worst with them, and do all I can to help us survive, comfort them, and be with them. As their mother, I can do nothing different.

If the situation was more clear cut, for instance, if a hurricane were on our doorstep, and about to get us, I might try to force the kids to come with me and save our lives, even if my partner insisted on staying. There is a certain point at which the threat is so clear cut that death is certain to follow. In this case, it becomes more and more proper to refuse to essential commit suicide by staying. But y2k is far from clear cut. And I will constantly be looking for ways to get through it. I have seeds and gardening books, herb books, and many resources that I have gathered in case the breakdown is long term. I am learning all I can in case we get through it and my skills are needed.

But I am one person with no money to do what I would do to create a viable post y2k retreat. So I am like you, I must be able to accept the limits of my situation. And my limited ability to infuence others in this case. Ultimately we will all need each other to get through this. I can not do it alone, nor would I want to.

I can only hope with all my heart that my views are wrong. And I will be happy if they are. And relieved. I wish you the best of luck, and just one word of advice, do not think of it as a weakness on your part. You have done all you could out of love for them, and you are not responsible for what goes on in other's minds or their decisions. And you can only do your best and then make your decision. If you decide to stay, that is a courageous and loving thing to do. If you are able to leave and make a retreat in hopes they will come to it, then more power to you. Each must make their own choices and live with them and there are no choices that are easy, none that will not have a great price attached. Many parents will be safe, but far from their children and never know what happened to them. I would imagine this will be a great sorrow for them. Whatever you decide, just try to accept that you are the only one who can decide what to do with your life. No one forces you to stay or go. Our families are not making us stay, and we can not make them go.

Try to forgive them for not seeing what you see, even though it feels like a personal rejection at first. Try to see us all as capable of making mistakes and misjudgements, even very costly ones. I know when they refuse to read articles, it seems like they are being stubborn and stupid. It is very easy to get mad and defensive at first. But try to rethink it in light of all the other people who are behaving that way. It can't be our fault. It is much bigger than us, and much bigger than our family relationships. We will soon find out what is really going on here.

Best of luck to you,

Lora

-- Lora (artemis45@hotmail.com), October 09, 1999.

Resigned,

You're in good luck. One, a part of being Y2K prepared is having employment, and by the sounds of it quite a handful of people in your home are employed. If one job goes down a few others may still be going. Two, if for any reason martial law is declared you aren't going to be allowed into a community that does not match your drivers license stated address. A retreat is not appropriate for Y2K. Had you last winter moved and changed your drivers license to match the new address this idea of "taking off" might have been rational. (Or maybe proof of ownership would get you buy the soldiers.) Three, in a time of chronic famine historically the country migrates to the city not the other way around in search of food and resources. Four, you are not going to be able to predict a nasty "hit" on your urban area. You don't know if it is Dec 15 or if it is in March. Many areas for the rollover itself have 3 days of water etc stockpiled. So potentially, the wool is really going to be pulled over many eyes during the actual rollover. Five, you need to be home and on alert for any unexpected event requiring your action to prevent the loss of your home. Someone needs to be there. (Fire)

It is important to change what you can and accept what you cannot. If you were unable to move ala Gary North than why borrow trouble worrying about? At this point you know your own reality. I'd in your shoes immediately roll up my sleeves, pull out the elbow grease, and start working with what I had. Maybe a few plyboards precut and ready to cover windows should you need them? Fire extinguishers? A fire ladder to escape from an apartment balcony if you're in such? You all certainly need flee bags in addition to food and water as we saw in the recent hurricane aftermath.

Any nation would find urbaners fleeing to the country unacceptable. In researching the ten years of the Soviet Empire breaking down, even they put a stop to the urbaners heading for the country, the reason being is that the country has peasants which holds true in America. Urbaners arriving tend to invade, plunk down in hammocks, and "hire the poor peasants" which can work them to the death. You're the urban working class not a peasant.

I find fault with Gary North. He exposes so much of his own beliefs that as anyone who also did faults can be found. I do demand he as a historian know the "alloted land" measure that was up in Russia and why it was defeated. He then mentioned in a post he gets along in "the country" by doing just what the Russians predicted, He hires the locals to get him through living in the country. He is hiring the poor peasants for that hard labor. My words by the way are not meant to be a put down to Mr. North. I enjoy his site and most certainly do listen to his interviews on Art Bell. The gentlemandoes talk a lot thus exposing his faults as well as sound strengths to the world.

Cool it on all the "flee to the country" stuff you read. These are well meant people but not noted brilliant minds at work. There are long term and serious national consequences to urbaners heading on out to the countryside full of peasants.

An additional point to be made is that you need to be where you know the mind sets. You probably can predict your mayors actions. That gives you the edge to be on top of things for your own survival.

You might find the book, Ten Years That Shook The World, by Valery Boldin, ISBN 0-465-08407-9 a good read. Mr. Boldin explains how the Soviet Empire went into a collapse and much is similar to Y2K.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), October 09, 1999.

You define the word "whimp". God made the man/husband/father the head, the leader and the protector of the family. Your family is a flock without a shepard. May the chains weigh lightly upon you.

-- (bdavis@netonecom.net), October 09, 1999.

y2k prep quiter

i watched a show on "sightings" about earth changes in 1994. i was living in southern cal. at the time i moved to oregon because i was concerned about the (may 5th 2000 scenario). i started preparing for that scenario in 1995 then i found out about the y2k in 1998. the motto of the boy scouts of america is "BE PREPARED" it is never to late or to early to be prepared.

-- memyselfandi (memyselfandi@beentheredoingthis.net), October 09, 1999.

Thank you ALL for your responses.

BDAVIS: I'm a "whimp" as you say, geez, no contest there. That's the painful heartache of this thing. But I'm not a man/father/husband. I'm a mama person. Still, it changes nothing.

WILL: Thank you. I'm not feeling very useful to anybody today, but I will consider what you say.

FELLER: You're right of course. But regrettably, I could never tell my family to hush-up. I want to, but I'm coming up a bit shy of what it takes to do so.

APOLKOLETIK: My marriage has sustained 25 years in loving care and respect. Nonetheless, your strength and position is one I admire, but do not possess.

OLD GIT: Thank you, truly, for your response. I read all your posts with considerable respect. I assure you it's not matter of "won't." It really is a matter of "can't." God knows I've tried. No matter my choices, I would never feel any anger whatsoever for the decisions of my family. I honestly respect all of them too much.

CAROLE: "Ask your children. For what?" Well, my daughter is a young adult with her first hard-won job. I feel like I have to consult with her. You're right, that it would be better if I were more definitive, but this might really be bigger than interpersonal relationships; It might be about being caught in the throes of something historic. Of course, that is all yet to be told.

JEAN SWIFT: You're right. It is the most absurd position I've ever found myself in. Your well-wishes are taken to heart. Thank you.

RCARVER: Here's to hoping there IS another option! I promise I won't give up on that hope.

GORDON: I appreciate that you know that I'm doing what I believe is correct. God, I hope so. Boy. I sure hope so.

HOPE@KEEP.CALM: Wow. May your recording angels be looking on the excellence of your wishes.

PAULA & LORI: I read with a particular care your responses. Good things to think about.

BILLBURKE: I will write and let you know how it goes in January. And I'll follow your practical suggestions meanwhile. Much appreciated.

-- (resigned@this.point), October 09, 1999.

Here are some thoughts for everyone who is feeling alone as a GI in a family of DGIs and/or DWGIs:

1. All people should agree to let decisions be governed, to the extent possible, by verifiable facts and reasonable inferences from the verifiable facts.

2. Nearly all Americans, today, on the subject of Y2K computer bug hazards, are acting in gross violation of #1. Instead, we see nearly everyone acting on feelings and assumptions and wishful thinking. They even display an outright refusal to investigate and evaluate the verifiable facts.

3. All of us who have looked into this have some shared experiences, which we can describe in shorthand as the conversation with the "angry DWGI" or the "contemptuous DWGI", whose emotional response is totally uncalled for. People who don't think it is unreasonable to have the car's tires checked and gas tank filled before a vacation trip, act as if they are being invited to drink FlavorAid at Jonestown when it is suggested they stockpile food, water, and other items in case of a Y2K disruption. "Get off my doorstep, you religious nutcase!" is the undertone of their inappropriate response.

The psychologists and psychiatrists have let us down BIG TIME on this issue. I say this, because, as these experts say about the criminally insane, "their affect is inappropriate". The words "denial" and "disconnect" are inadequate to convey the inappropriateness of the emotion of the angry DWGIs. It is better to describe their response as a psychiatric disorder of some kind. Amazingly, about 98% of the population, apparently including all psychologists and all psychiatrists, share this disorder. Most of our loved ones share it. What are we to make of this? First, we have to admit it as a mysterious and unpleasant fact, but a fact nevertheless. Let's admit it the way we would admit it if our loved ones were blind, suffered from Alzheimer's, or required constant treatment for epilepsy or depression. They are impaired and at risk, and perhaps infuriating, but they are still our loved ones and we are not going to abandon them because of they impairment, aggravating though it may be.

4. As a father of two small children, it dawned on me that the circumstance that my wife believes Y2K "won't happen" is really irrelevant to my responsibilities.

This got real clear for me when I visualized the following sequence of hypothetical events: I see Y2K as a risk, but my wife doesn't, so I hypothetically acquiesce and do not prepare. Then, she tragically is hit by a bus and I am a single parent, beginning on Christmas Day.

Suddenly, I am free to prepare, but it is too late. Then, in January, 2000, we are all grief stricken, and Y2K starts to hit hard in strange and terrifying ways. My kids are cold, hungry, thirsty, sick, and terrified, and I hear "Daddy, please do something NOW!" but I cannot, because I chose not to prepare.

DO I HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE BECAUSE THEIR LATE LAMENTED MOTHER HAD A DIFFERENT OPINION? Answer: of course not.

Under this hypothetical situation, I am a bad father and I am a jerk, and I am not less of a jerk just because somebody else was a jerk. As a matter of fact, I am not less of a jerk just because almost the entire population of the USA are jerks. I will just have a lot of company, but more guilt, because I SAW IT COMING AND DID NOT ACT APPROPRIATELY.

Who is more the bigger jerk, someone who doesn't know there is a risk, and gets hurt, or someone who sees the risk and chooses not to take precautions?

5. Nobody knows how the scenarios may play out. Hey, in the fine print even Alan Greenspan confessed to that.

So, make the preparations you can, in all areas. Beef up your readiness across the board. Food, water, warmth, medicine, health, security, and bugout destination thought through in advance. Then back to food, water, warmth, security. Get some big bags of rice and beans to share with your neighbors if they come to your door. Then find a place nobody will find, to bury some more acorns. Even squirrels are smart enough to have a bunch of backup food stockpiles.

Assume your in-home stockpile will be looted, or lost when your house burns down. What will you do then? Think about it now and DO SOMETHING INTELLIGENT. Any little thing you do may be the thing that turns out to save your life or the life of your loved one.

So take the Red Cross course. Get the extra vitamins and eyeglasses. Lose that extra 40 pounds. Learn a useful practical skill, like carpentry, plumbing, midwifery, or ham radio. Get the flu shot, whatever. Get a bunch of practical-knowledge books, in case you have to read them. Wake up!

6. You don't have to solve every imaginable scenario. Solve what you can. Then come back and do some more. Focus first on things you will use anyway. Start with food you will eat anyway. Then, in the long run, the preparations won't actually cost anything at all. Don't goldplate everything. Do something in every area. Then come back and do some more. The perfect is the enemy of the good. Anything is better than nothing.

7. Remember: these loser denialists WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SAVE YOU. And if we all have to experience hard times, it will not be any consolation at all to be able to tell them "I told you so" even if they are willing to admit they were wrong --- which, believe me, they never will admit.

It is more likely that they will actually BLAME YOU FOR THE PROBLEM! Yes, I know it is crazy, but that's why I say the mental health professionals have let us down here. They have not given a name to the mental illness now being exhibited by 98% of the American population. However, a nonsurvival trait like this one HAS to be some kind of mental or emotional disturbance.

OK, so what, let's notice this fact, admit it, and act appropriately. We have to all stop whining, get serious, and start acting like grownups. We are responsible for our own choices. Maybe we can cushion our loved ones for their own wrong choices, but not if we join them in their folly. And willful refusal to prepare is folly.

Keep up the good work and remember you are not alone in your pain and frustration. So what if they laugh at us? Given the choice, I'd take a lifetime of ridicule over a 10 year Y2K economic depression any day. And what the hell, it's only money. And we all have wasted a lot of money in our lives on stupid gadgets, bad cars, dumb relationships, and rainy vacations. So let's all get together and give each other permission to hose $20,000 down the drain on Y2K! Just do it by October 15, 1999! And get it over with quick! (grin)

8. And, finally, let's all be humble enough to admit that we may be all wet, and just panicking over nothing, maybe because we all have some deep seated need to obsess over something, or whatever, and that the brainless mob who angrily refuse to read the Senate report, or the Navy's Master Utilities List, or the recent testimony of the guy from INTERTANKO on the unreadiness of the oil tankers, or Naval War College scenarios, or the CIA's internal recommendations, or the NRC's public report on th Peach Bottom nuclear Y2K test incident of a few months ago, or press stories on the ludicrous condition of the D.C. government's Y2K remediation work, or the numerous reports indicating that half of small businesses have done nothing and intend to do nothing, or the total lack of believable reports that the Persian Gulf oil states have fixed their embedded chips, or the fact that even Montgomery County, Maryland is still stumbling over Y2K problems after all its hard work, etc. .... are all actually correct in their empty- headed belief that there is NO REASON FOR ANY CONCERN. (In Valspeak: "NOT!!") After all, we really could, in theory, be dead wrong in our concerns about Y2K. In theory. And they could be right. In theory.

-- Joseph R. Whaley (whaley@attorney-us.com), October 09, 1999.

Damn! I wish all of you lived around here!

Resigned--please keep in touch. If you like, you can reach me through the kind offices of Diane or Chuck.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 09, 1999.

SCREW EM! Just what the hell is the difference if you spend the money and time this year, or you spend it next year? Buy a gun and ammo and lay low. If you can't get out that's the breaks. Neither can I. But I will tell you one thing bucko, I'm ready and will stay that way. If it really looks like it's going to get bad mom and the kids are out of here up to grandma's. My best freind and I will be back to protect the digs here in the burgh. DIE STEELERS! Just kidding about the Steelers! DO NOT GIVE UP! I your wrong big deal.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), October 09, 1999.

Errrrrr,,,,,, that's IF your wrong, big deal! Sorry, you pissed me off. I was hittin the keyboard to fast.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), October 09, 1999.

And may I take this moment to remind each and everyone of us who was blessed with a GI husband/wife and kids to give a huge prayer of thanks...it makes this entire ordeal so much easier to deal with.

With all our powdered eggs in this one crazy basket...

-kritter

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), October 09, 1999.

resigned,

A year or so after world War II ended, Winston Churchill was invited to attend a graduation commencement ceremony in the US. The invitation did not include an invitation to address the graduating class, but was offered anyway after he arrived, and the ceremonies were underway.

He walked to the podium, and said,

"Never give up." "Never give up." "Never give up." "Never give up."

And sat down.

Lesson learned.

-- OldGuard (times@gone.past), October 10, 1999.

Okay, I'm a mormally reasonable, nice guy but I'm gonna get aggressive on this one because the thread-starting post from Resigned pissed me off. It pissed me off in the sense that Resigned tried to do what he/she (as the case may be; I've long ago stopped playing gender guessing games...) thought was prudent given the situation but was met with outright hostility. I guess I don't have much tolerance for what I perceive are idiots. So, Resigned, this is meant for the comfort of your soul and aimed squarely AT the pinheads that you're trying, may your chosen deity bless you for the effort, to protect.

At the risk of getting religious, Christianity's Holy Book does mention Y2K. Hurricanes. Famines. Wars. three-day storms. Any disaster or catastrophe, real or perceived. And how to deal with them. All in one nice, compact scripture.

Proverbs 22:3.

In a nutshell: If you see a problem, whatever it may be, real or perceived, and act pudently to deal with that problem, you are wise. If you see a problem and trot along on your merry way even though you know better, you are a fool.

Sounds like you're surrounded by idiots, but unfortunately as is so often seemingly the case you're stuck with them. Can you afford to quit? Will your loved ones stand more of a chance if you give up than they would if you don't, damn whatever negativity they throw your way? If you don't do SOMETHING, ANYTHING, no matter what they think or say or do and no matter how little it seems, and TS does truly HTF, can you look in a mirror and see yourself in a positive light? Can you face your chosen deity with head held upright because you did what you knew was right regardless of the presecution it brought, or hung in shame because you could have done what you knew was right because of that persecution?

Most religions teach that whatever deity is involved holds us all individually responsible for our actions to at least some level or another. My response to you, dear Resigned, is to think of it this way: you cannot, CAN NOT, EVER, NO MATTER WHAT, allow yourself to be swayed from a course you yourself know in your heart is the right one regarding Y2K OR ANY OTHER DISASTER, even if everyone you love thinks otherwise. They don't get it or want to get it. Irrelevant. You're tired of dealing with it. Irrelevant. (Side note: Most of us are by now so SICK of this Y2K business.) They are actively opposed to the idea of prepping. IRRELEVANT. If you must tell them "I love you but I'm doing this regardless, and I'm not doing this because of any animosity toward you; I'm simply taking steps I belive are prudent to deal with what I perceive is a problem coming SOON; So, you can help me or you can leave me alone about it, but EITHER WAY THIS IS GETTING DONE" or get aggressive about it, so be it. You doing what you feel is right to protect those you care for in the context of what you know and/or suspect is coming to help protect your loved ones is more important than their potentially self-destructive opinions.

If you allow those you love to dictate to you that the potentially dangerous path is the right path WHEN YOU KNOW BETTER, then you're taking on a share of the responsibility before whatever deity you hold dear for that course and its consequences. If you must save yourself when you cannot save them, at least you tried and they CHOSE to be a fool and suffer accordingly while you CHOSE not to.

Ultimately, as harsh as it might sound, there is a time when you are obligated to fend for yourself. When you KNOW danger is present, and KNOW bad will happen, and others you love are marching blindly into it while chastising you for your attempts to warn them, you're condemning yourself by following along. Your favorite deity will likely look upon you in a negative light for not at least saving yourself if you could not save others. The hardest part is deciding when that point is reached and whether you truly can deal with the repercussions.

Example: The watchman in ancient Israel was in charge of being part of the early warning system for attacks from other armies. If he saw a threat coming and sounded warning, he had performed his duty and was free of responsibility for any of those that did not heed the warning. He saved himself by warning others, and those others then became responsible for their own actions OR LACK THEREOF in response to the warning. If he did not warn, and the threat came, he -was- responsible because he could have tried to do something but didn't. The concept of responsibility for warnings applies to all professed Christians - if you see a fellow sin and say/do nothing, he'll pay the price but you're also responsible in that you could've done SOMETHING but CHOSE not to; if you see a fellow sin and say/do something to help him not sin but he does it anyway, he'll pay but you did what you were supposed to do. (Crap, I forgot where that is in the Bible. Oh well, I'll have to look it up when I'm less tired.)

I guess I've got a more type-A personality, but I have told close family that if they insist on being a hardcore DWGI, their decision rests on their shoulders -but- my plans remain unaltered by their choices. I can afford to be wrong. We'll see if they can, too. These are people I love but I cannot deicde for them, I can only provide a contingency plan for them in my preps in the event that they are totally wrong. Beyond that, they will suffer the results of their decisions as much as I will mine.

Let's distill this down.

Ultimately you... YOU... Spell it out with me -- Y O U ... have to face yourself every morning and live with your conscience. If you prep and the BITR is all that comes to pass, who gives a flying F*CK whether they agreed or not. You prepped as for a hurricane, but it was a hurricane that swung round and headed out to sea. You're ready for the next [whatever] that comes along no matter what they do/did. If you don't prep and Y2K goes Infomagic or as well as medium-yield Yardeni, same answer, only they'll owe you SO much apology over their every doubt. You control your own fate and bear responsibility accordingly. They control theirs and bear responsibility accordingly. Their fate my be led by their decisions away from yours.

Should you flee your home? I don't know, you don't know, they don't know. We all have to ride the coaster and deal with the dips as they come. I can only say what I would do in the situation but that is of zero help to you so I'll refrain. CAN you leave your home? Don't ask me! Should you flee from you loved ones if you see they're gonna get themselves killed? Same answer. Should you all hunker down and tough it out? You get the idea.

Should you go along with their decision when you're strongly convinced otherwise? Perhaps, but perhaps not. You're gonna have to decide a lot of things, like the rest of us all will, in the coming months.

So do what you feel you must. If you feel you must cease to appease the decree of the collective, do so, but do so knowing that if you're wrong you and they will get hammered for it. if you feel you must risk ostracism to protect them, even though they by their ostracism show themselves UNWORTHY OF YOUR LOVE, do so, but do so knowing that if you're wrong YOU DID WHAT YOU THOUGHT YOU NEEDED TO. They'll either understand or they won't, and if they won't, that's their problem. See previous comment regarding giving a flying f-- you get the idea.

Okay, I feel much calmer now. E-mail's real BTW, if you'd care to talk. I'm sure others in the forum would be glad to provide a listening ear out in the reaches of cyberspace to help you get through it all. :-)

-- OddOne (mocklamer_1999@yahoo.com), October 10, 1999.

This forum is extraodinary.

I hope that those who posted responses early, saw my words of thanks above to each of them.

I will continue to prep as much as my personal limited means allow. I'd like my loved ones to financially participate, but.

My resignation is about not trying to convince them anymore. I hope emerging events might convince them. But I say that with a saddened sigh, because I fully realize that emerging events may come too late. (Gads, at this point I wish I were protected by ignorance.)

For those who have recently posted:

LORA - I have read your post many times over, and want to tell you that I appreciate it more with each reading.

FLAME AWAY - It's very odd. I'd probably say "screw 'em" too if they weren't my loved ones. It gets trickier to develop that conviction when it's your own family.

WHALEY - Thank you for an very incisive analysis. I especially appreciate you puzzling through how to come to a decision independent of your wife. My child is a young-adult, so I'm not in a position to make a decision for her. However, I believe your post may have helped another lurkign parent (faced with a polly spouse)develop the conviction to take charge of the situation.

OLD GUARD: "Never give up. Never give up. Never give up." Churchill said that? No kidding? Gosh, I always thought it was the guy in the movie Titanic talking to Rose in the water before he froze.

ODD ONE: I know how sincere your best wishes are to everybody who finds themselves in this situation. My DGIs aren't really idiots.(Although I admit they're doing their level best to keep that a carefully concealed fact.) It feels like something bigger, the daunting power of conformity, more fear-based, almost an oddly misguided patriotism. As LORA pointed out that (something Leska said), there is an odd reaction to information about this unprecedented event. Thank you for your support and invitation to correspond.

OLD GIT: I will keep in touch. (I do not know a single GI. Isn't that amazing? It's almost incredible, since I know so many people.) But I am determined to remain calm and reassuring through, well, whatever the hell we're about to go through.

Best wishes to all,

-- (resigned@this.point), October 10, 1999.

There is no easy way of ever dealing with the unpleasant. But this seems like science fiction to the pollys. They don't believe it could happen here in the good old USA. "they'll do something!" Well they are right. They will. But at what expence? What are the accepted casualties? I feel like it's just a wait and see issue right now. But I won't be lining up for the slaughter. I'll just quietly disappear from the inevitable turmoil this will bring. And that may mean blending in with the crowd. Right now I'm even pretending that I believe the government has it under control. I'll shout with the rest of them "How could you let this happen!" Then go home in my nice warm house and eat my food and live in relative comfort. Oh yes I'll help rebuild. But as for me and my house, while we're still on this side of 2000, we will hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Just shut off all your utlities next weekend and ask your family to deal with it for a day or two. After they see the inconvieniences ask them would they be willing to risk this really happening and not be prepared! Don't give up!

-- Itol D. Youso (mrosscorecomm@hotmail.com), October 10, 1999.

Imagine yourself on a plane. During the flight, someone stands up and says, Hey, Ive just discovered that the type of engine used in this jet has serious mechanical problems that can be dangerous. He doesnt rate the chances of the plane reaching ground safely. Hes an experienced airline pilot and he knows what hes talking about. Another passenger stands up, an experienced flight engineer he claims. He agrees with the first guy and he also knows what hes talking about  the type of engine in this aircraft does have problems, its well known in the airline industry. Several others get up and all relate their various experiences and knowledge of this type of jet engine. They've read about it on the internet. Had they known this type of engine was still in use, they'd never have stepped aboard.

There are parachutes available, however, and everybody can at least give themselves a good chance of saving themselves if theyd only don the parachutes and line up by the emergency exit. First sign of problems, they at least would get out in time and not get caught up in the panic. These people look worried. A bright young man gets up and says I get it, gimme my parachute  I dont care how low the odds are, the stakes are what counts. I could die. If you care for your life and the lives of your families, the rest of you will do the same. I ain't even waiting. I'm jumping now.

You look at your family and ask them to at least don the parachutes and line up in the gangway, nothing to lose. What would it cost to be ready, you tell them. You show them the literature handed out by the pilot-passenger and the passenger engineer. You get them to understand the risks. It all seems so plausible, so credible. Surely it would be the height of foolishness to ignore the warnings. The arguments for some kind of prudent action are overwhelming.

But theres something missing in all of this. Firstly, the cabin and flight crew dont seem too concerned about the problem. Their main concern seems to be the passengers nervousness rather than the possibility of engine failure. The captain piloting the plane sends a message out that there is nothing to worry about, everything is under control. The problem is acknowledged to have existed, but it has been fixed and a new level of backup has been installed just in case. And anyway, what has he, the pilot, got to gain by flying a dud plane.

So some people stand by the exits, parachutes on their backs, ready to go at the first sign of trouble. One or two fellas are absolutely not taking any chance and have already jumped. The vast majority stay put in their seats, a little more nervous than they would be otherwise, but no more than they would be after a turbulence warning. They try to forget about it and get on with whatever it is they are doing. Whats the point of worrying about something you cant control anyway, they figure. So time is passed with a lot of nervous humour at the expense of the guys lined up at the exits. Now and again, a jumper jumps, a sitter gets up and dons a parachute and takes his place in the gangway, and one or two of the would-be jumpers get tired of the jokes and derision and lack of concern from the cabin crew and re-join the sitters.

What can you do? Really?

-- I mean it. (surely_shirley@lurvmail.com), October 10, 1999.

BLehman: Actually, it should be "If YOU'RE wrong" not "If YOUR wrong." Good grammar benefits us all.

-- Teacher (spitoutthatgum@once.com), October 10, 1999.

Teacher,

"Good grammar benefits us all."

So do good thoughtful posts, like the one you "corrected."

Congratulations for correcting a typing/spelling mistake. Maybe you can get a Guggenheim fellowship.

-- (resigned@this.point), October 10, 1999.