Exceptionally gruesom question

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

OK. Here's the thing. I'm at the mercy of my DGI family (parents and siblings) regarding Y2K preparation. I have spent as much money as I can on wood stoves, food, etc. We are still woefully unprepared for even a month of intermitent electricity loss, food chain breakdown, etc. Lately I've been fighting with everyone about getting a cord of wood. I'm broke. Literally. They won't do it. I'm getting so tired of being frustrated - this has been going on for 2 God*&#(! years now. My worst fear - and I'M NOT SAYING THIS WILL HAPPEN! - is that we will all die a slow, agonizing death. I can live without a lot of things, but I don't want to watch my family die. Sooooo...I ordered a copy of "Final Exit" from Barnes & Noble. Know the book? It's about the right to die and it gives instructions. There - I've said it. Has anyone else been thinking about this? Comments?

-- Beetle (layinglow@present.com), October 07, 1999

Answers

people on this forum are really starting to lose it.

-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), October 07, 1999.

Beetle;

It is not time to check out.

You will be told in no uncertian terms when check out time is.

I have watched many die. It is not for me or you to decide.

It will happen to me, it will happen to you, treasure your time on this place we call earth.

I know it seems like the easy way, but it may not be any better than today.

Think about better tomorrows........

-- Helium (Heliumavid@yahoo.com), October 07, 1999.


I hear the easiest way to off youself is to take a 100 foot rope, tie a noose around your neck, secure the other end to a tree, get in your car and punch it.

Note: Make sure

A. Rope is at least a 500 pound test strength

B. Tree is at least 3" in diameter

C. Car does not suffer from "hesitation". Might want to fill up on Super premium the day before.

-- You want gruesome? (Here@is.gruesome), October 07, 1999.


I'm not saying I want to do this. I'm certainly not ready to do it. But by God, if it comes to that I want to know how to do it.

-- Beetle (layinglow@present.com), October 07, 1999.

Beetle, you have my sympathies. I have a couple of possibly helpful ideas to improve your situation short of planning on suicide in January:

1) For improving the availability of preparation resources, perhaps there is something in the article "Finding Y2K Prep Time and $$" on my website you would find useful.

2) Why not try to find a Y2K community (or even just one member of the opposite sex in a Y2K personal ad) somewhere that will accept you, providing you bring everything you can in the way of relevant assets?

3) Normally this wuld be a no-no, but you might consider moving into a tent (if not too far north) or scrap-cabin (that you build) in the middle of a state forest or other wilderness. (This would be on the sly, of course.) You at the least wouldn't be certain of having to share your food with parasitic grasshoppers. Above all, from the very beginning, bring wood tools for cabin-building as well as firewood-cutting. No one can know where you are doing this, or that you are doing it at all.

Best of luck to you.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), October 07, 1999.



Call many firewood dealers (unless you are in New England there should be many classified ads for firewood). Tell the guy/gal that you need a cord or two (two would be better!), but you don't have the money and was wondering if they would be willing to trade or assistance in labor. I am sure one or two dealers will fix you up!

Undersand about your frustration and you will have to "let-go" of family and friends who don't understand - but don't be rude (even if tempted), just do the best you can. Reason being is when November comes, or as late as December, there may be enough WAVES of public fear that they may catch on and dig deep into their saving$ etc. and help you out big time!

Good luck (I'm in the same position)

-- dw (y2k@outhere.com), October 07, 1999.


Here's a link worth looking through.

http://www.globalideasbank.org/natdeath/ndh0.html

The Natural Death Handbook

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), October 07, 1999.


Buy some good sleeping bags instead. Go around and collect newspapers, roll them tight, wire them and burn em. Get a part time job during the Christmas rush, use the money for more basic food items. 50 lbs of rice is still $12. at Costco.

-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), October 07, 1999.

NOW LISTEN UP...I'm pissed that someone who 'gets it' would even resort to thinking this way because the dummy DGI's are making your life difficult. I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH, we all are going through shit man. SO TOUGHEN UP. RIGHT NOW. Whatever you want, whatever you need, YOU WILL GET THAT. Stay positive. Don't even think about the alternative of taking your life. That is a TOTAL waste of time. Just keep plugging away.

-- preech (listen@tothis.com), October 07, 1999.

Beetle,

Try your local sawmills. Here in my little Texas town, the local sawmill has piles and piles of scrap hardwood (ends & pieces). Sometimes you can get it for free (all you can carry) or sometimes they sell it extremely cheap ($1.00 for as much as you can pile into/on a wooden box that's approx. 18" x 24". Get someone to hold the box while you stack it on as high as it will go). I once filled up the back of a shortbed pickup for about $10.

Best of luck to you.

-- NokternL (nokternl@anywhereusa.com), October 07, 1999.



Beetle-Buck up-If you or any others choose this option, I assure you, it won't be "by God." Go to the library & find Wilderness Wisdom and the like. Find some info by Kurt Saxson. I'm sure some will go this route, and for the most part, they won't really be missed, (oops! there goes my sensitive side again!) Wood can be had for free if you call the power company in your area or close by, ask them where they've run lines lately. The only cost will be hauling and "sweat equity"

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), October 07, 1999.

Hey I'll give you some wood ideas. Go around where they are building homes and ask for scaps that are very short. Even if it isn't oak it will keep you alive when you most need it. You'ld be amazed at how generous people can be above and beyond the sraps I'm refering to asking for. I ought to know cuz i'm building a house and I've got tons of it.

-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), October 07, 1999.

FREE FIREWOOD

Go to some of the local shops that sell gas logs and stoves. Ask if you can put up a sign. Advertise to people that are getting gas logs that you will come and clean up there old pile of firewood for free. Lots of people are moving to gas logs and will be eager for someone to come and clean up that corner of their yard.

In my area, the local power company cut back all tree limbs from near the lines. They graciously cut the wood into 2 foot logs and simply left it all laying in peoples front yards. Over a 1 month period I went to the doors and asked if they would like the wood removed. Everybody said yes. I got between 7 and 8 cords all for free. Got a nice old Buck insert out of the paper for $60.

Another tip. My town has a company that makes sandwiches for vending machines and filling stations. They use about 40 5-gallon buckets of sweet pickles a day. Nice buckets with rubber rings. I asked, and they sold me all I wanted for 50 cents each. You can also get large drums ~55 gal from soft drink companies for around $6.00.

It's out there, go find it.

-- BH (silentvoice@pobox.com), October 07, 1999.


I think some of you are kind of missing the point. I'm frustrated, but I'm not helpless. I'm an extremely resourceful person. I've got enough guts, brains and stamina to take us to the bitter end. It's the bitter end I'm talking about. I can have all the positive attitude in the world, but if there's no food or water I'm gonna die. I'm not afraid to die, but I'd like to have some control and dignity about the whole thing.

-- Beetle (layinglow@present.com), October 07, 1999.

Beetle,

Another thought. Keep an eye out for fallen trees in people yards, etc. Alot of the time people will give you the wood for hauling it off. You may have to borrow a chainsaw or get a friend to help you cut it up. Try finding someone who has a chopping/splitting maul. A maul will split wood alot easier than a single or double bit axe.

Also, if you know anyone who owns several acres or more of land, ask them if you can look around for fallen trees. Many times you will find trees that have fallen over and have been dead for a while (easier to split).

-- NokternL (nokternl@anywhereusa.com), October 07, 1999.



Beetle, I'm goint to be blunt. You're problem is that you believe you're at the mercy of someone else. As you think, so you become. You are not at the mercy of your family and siblings UNLESS you believe you are. Figure out a way to provide for yourself, get the hell out of your house. IF they don't get it, then to hell with them. Believe me, I'm in a similar position. All my friends and family with mucho dollars DGI. I'm up to my ass in debt preparing, but if the lazy shithead family members start crying out for grain, well they're gonna have to subsist on little. Toughen up.

-- preech (listen@tothis.com), October 07, 1999.

Hamster--I agree, man oh man, people are really beginning to loose it. If you panic, you will loose it. Stick around people because things are beginning to get exciting. I want to live to see how it all turns out. I haven't come this far to throw in the towel. I want to know if I was right or if I was wrong, or if they were right or wrong. Since I am 1/4 American Indian, I have always had the desire to walk into the forest and die among the trees, and I will know when that time comes. I don't need any book to tell me when to end it. These are truly exciting times, stick around things will only get better.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), October 07, 1999.

Beetle, please, if you haven't already check out that link I placed above. The reference book you mentioned is probably also a good source. It is my understanding that death from starvation and dehydration, while not fast, finishes with sleep/coma. There are some good folks here who do hospice work, and I bet they have good input regarding death with dignity. Funny and sad that in the "west" thoughts and consideration of one's death gets relegated to the "gruesome". Through medieval times the cemetery was always in the center of the city. Life and death are inseparable.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), October 07, 1999.

Oh, and if you DO take your life, you are going to pay for it bud. I'm not joking. Suicide, in any form, means you hafta come back many, many times, not to mention the hell you have to go through after death. MUCH better to starve to death than take your life.

-- preech (listen@up.com), October 07, 1999.

Beetle,

The point may have been missed but only because it wasn't presented very well.

Use your extreme resourcefulness and you'll make it.

-- NokternL (nokternl@anywhereusa.com), October 07, 1999.


If you do that 'car' thing, could you please film it and send me a copy?

-- Porky (Porky@in.cellblockD), October 07, 1999.

Alternately, you could just switch forums, start reading the DeBunker's instead and your troubles are over.

-- (jestkiddin'@home.com), October 07, 1999.

So Preech, what did you do wrong to come back here only to have to do it again and again? That's one the most stupidest thing I ever read on this forum. Obviously Preech, since your posting here, you must have committed suicide in a previous life in order to post here.

-- scratching my head (scrathingmyhead@scratchingmyheadd.xcom), October 07, 1999.

Never cross a bridge until you get to it. If the bridge is broken or washed out then pray, use your wits, call on God, do SOMETHING and never give up.

May God's love and mercy reach out to all of us. Let us turn to Him.

sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), October 07, 1999.


Hi Beetle Yes I have thought along the same lines for awhile. If it goes 7-10 and you have a SERIOUS accident or illness you won't have access to medicines or surgery so what is left?...decision time I for one would like the "option" rather than the envitable long slow....

Best wishes

-- mango (sammy1@indiasite.com), October 07, 1999.


Beetle,

If you don't want to watch your family die a slow and horrible death, then don't. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. Same thing with Y2K, they either get it or they don't. In your case they don't and it sounds like there is nothing more that you can do. Either accept the fact that they and you are going to be in trouble or find a way around it or leave and make it on your own.

Choosing death as an option is a bit premature. However, if things do get that bad, I'm sure that there will be plenty of people who will be more then willing to put you and your family out of thier misery mearly for the clothes on your back, your last bite of food, or your shelter.

But would'nt it be a shame if after you killed yourself, the next day the rest of your family found someone who was willing to help them and they made it through Y2K OK? Yep, that would be a low down dirty shame, but then again you would'nt have to worry about it because you took the easy way out.

Now the other part of the gruesome question is,,,, are you planning on putting just yourself out of misery, or your family too? How about your neighbors? And your pets?

Want my advice? Don't cross the death bridge until you come to it. You are already thinking about quiting and we have'nt even hit Y2K yet. But if you are dead set on dying, find a really tall building and jump. Just don't take anyone with you. Lots of luck.

Bass

-- Bass (Bass000666@aol.com), October 07, 1999.


Garage Sales may be your answer. I have gotten almost everything for Y2K preps at garage sales. It's so much cheaper. Sometimes stuff, even firewood, is free for the asking, especially when it's a moving sale. Johan

-- johan (reisch@c-zone.net), October 07, 1999.

Beetle

Come on man snap out of it...Go to any construction sites, housing tracts, malls, industrial. ask the general for his scraps. In housing it'll be pine 2x4, usually ends (cut just long enough for your stove). In industrial and malls it will usually be 4x6 oak at between 6' and 8' long...these are used as cribbing and packing supports for electrical switch gear. oak burns really slow, while pine burns fast nd very hot. But all of it is free for the asking. And saves the general money because he has to hire it hauled off if he does not give it to some one.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_buker@forty.feet), October 07, 1999.


a friend of mine has a wood stove. he says if he has to use it , he will take an axe out to the railroad and chop of what he needs. the railroad runs right through his backyard.

-- ed (edrider007@aol.com), October 07, 1999.

Having dabbled a bit in survivalist literature, there are four priorities for a survivor, listed here in order of importance:

(1) ATTITUDE. You have to make up your mind that you want to live. This does not guarantee your survival in a bad situation, but you have to keep calm, stay positive, and psych yourself out that you are super-human and will get through anything, that NOTHING'S gonna stop you. (A future, distant goal in mind helps as your "prize" for getting through it--could be kissing a beautiful woman (or man?), could be savoring a fine lobster scampi, could be driving a pink cadillac with the top off down sunset boulevard. Anything, any crazy dream within plausible limits will do. That is your prize. Focus on it in the distance when you start getting down or fading off from exhaustion.) Cultivate survival ATTITUDE and you WILL have a FAR better chance of making it. Watch the movie "Alive!" and identify with the character portrayed by Ethan Hawke. He hiked it all the way into Chile not because he was feeling particularly healthy, but because he HAD HEART.

(2) SHELTER/PROTECTION FROM THE ELEMENTS. You can expire from hypothermia faster than from dehydration, hunger, or disease. However, even without firewood, long underwear & layered clothing go a long way to keeping you toasty warm. Zero degree sleeping bags and hot food/beverages are also excellent. So's a nice big dog or a cozy friend :). But the most important thing is the long underwear. I will repeat: long underwear, long underwear, long underwear... Even with no heat, if you stay out of the wind and rain you should stay alive happily (well, maybe not happily) even if it's below zero outside--as long as you are properly covered. Invest in a can of waterproofing spray for your shoes/boots, and remember that a simple trash bag can serve as a good barrier from wet cold. For info on how to build makeshift shelters, read _Tom Brown's Guide to Wilderness Survival_.

(3) WATER. So you run out of stored water and you haven't got time to hang around in line for your weekly ration from the National Guard...Or worse... Take heart. Few if any places near civilization are far from water sources: lakes, rivers, ponds, creeks, and swimming pools. In the wilderness, you usually find water by going down in elevation, between ridges. I wouldn't drink water directly though-- due to large increases in deer populations we can assume that most fresh water is contaminated with giardia and/or cryptosporidium. If civilization is collapsing we have to assume that there may be other nasty things in the water as well, such as dysenteric bacteria and hepatitis viruses. It is more difficult to tell if water is chemically polluted, but chances are, an "eco-friendly" water source has lots of insects, birds, and plants (other than scum); it is neither crystal clear nor bubbling with goo. How to treat water? Simplest way is to add a small amount of bleach (how much? consult your Red Cross guide) to the water and then boil for 15-20 minutes. This gets rid of all pathogens and any pollutants more volatile than water (most small organics). Chances are, overt heavy metal pollution is rare. If you have the means, though, it probably wouldn't hurt to put this water through a filter such as Brita's. Other methods of water collection include solar or heat distillation or rainwater collection.

(4) FOOD. If food were to become so scarce that it all but vanished from the grocery shelves, take heart. Mother Nature will not let you starve if you blend in with her and pay close attention to her. Watch the non-hooved creatures of the forest and the plants they eat, then sample those items to see if they agree with you--first tiny amounts then more. Some quick items from nature's supermarket, though, are cattails, sulfur shelf ("chicken of the forest"), the inner bark of pine trees (after steeped in water and boiled), acorns (cracked open and boiled in several changes of water--extremely nutricious), grass seeds (not purple ones), roots & tubers, shrooms, etc. For a good start get a field guide to edible plants and try to identify as many as possible (such as Peterson's). Food is important, but you can do without it for a long time (1 month) if you had to, longer if you had a small bit rationed day to day (1 year +). An adult could probably survive indefinitely on a third to half the calories you live on today (and perhaps extend the lifespan by oh, 30-50 years) as metabolism would compensate by slowing down--as frustrated dieters often attest. (Growing children, though, need everything they can...spare no effort to see to it that they get fed first!) Also, remember that food gathering should expend as little energy as possible. This means gather, fish, or trap; process (sitting or lazily reclined); and then store. This probably does NOT mean extended stalking of prey, being on the run, or staying on your feet for long in weather conditions less than mild.

I don't think suicide has to be the way out--seems like an awfully permanent "cure" for life's headaches and ups and downs. If you make up your mind that you are going to live--chances are YOU WILL FIND A WAY. Hope this helps.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), October 07, 1999.


Shakey is right! I had two small children at home, my husband worked his tail off in order to make ends meet. After he left for work, I would go to the lumber mill and load up our truck with 2x4 scrap wood. I sold each load for $45.00. My husband never knew I did this, I sat along the side of the road to sell it. I could have went to work in an office, but we sacrificed so I could be a stay-at-home-Mom. I did very well, sometimes I sold 3-4 loads a day. BTW, the wood was free, they were glad to get rid of it. Where there's a will there's a way.

-- not afraid to act (notafraidtoact@notafraidtoact.xcom), October 07, 1999.

What a great link, Donna. Beetle, have a look. It's very cheering, actually. I believe that people should think about facilitating their end if it is physically agonizing. The body is a temporal vehicle and it won't last forever, anyway. Yes, if death is close and there is no hope, have a good--rather than painful--death, if possible. This is not a "spiritual crime." I think you'll be okay though, Beetle. Best wishes.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), October 07, 1999.

Beetle,

This is way far to much. Myers Act immediately!!!!!!!!!!!! This is scary stuff folks.

In case the cops don't get to you to haul you off to the looney bin, I have a couple of suggestions.

Buy a book about the Donner Party. Maybe you can drag the DGI's outside in the deep freeze and stay alive longer than you think.

Write everything down so in case your DGI family survives you. Maybe the information could be used to make them some serious money if they decide to file a lawsuit against the extreme GI's that have obviously warped your friggin mind.

Forget the rope and car deal. Help the DGI's while you go. Save a 5 gallon jug of gasoline. Poor it on yourself. Cram your stupid butt in your woodstove and light up. At least your DGI's will have some benefit from your demise. Warmth and food.

I don't know how quick and painless this might be but you could hang out at a 7-11.

Beetle, you have GOT to be a college Pshych major working on some type of paper or report.

-- the Virginian (unbelievable@unbelievable.unbelievable), October 07, 1999.


Dear Beetle,

Believe me, I've lived the wort case TEOTWAKI and I'm still here and greatly enjoing myself. Almost looking forward the next TEOTWAWKI. It will be nostalgia and a nice change from the easy lifestyle of the last 2 decades.

Cancel the book Final Exit and start reading Mother Earth News to gain practical knowledge for what may come. Wishing you the best.

hatchou@yahoo.com

-- Not Again! (seenit@ww2.com), October 08, 1999.


Beetle -
I've thought about it, certainly. Be strong! If things really do get ugly your family will need you, not your carcass.

-- mil (millenium@yahoo.com), October 08, 1999.

I like you, coprolith. I post here and at Government of the U.S. (using varying handles, of course), and you've always been right on.

-- mil (millenium@yahoo.com), October 08, 1999.

First of all, I agree, I didn't make my point well enough at first. Sorry. I guess I meant that all the preparation in the world can't protect you from the most dire of circumstances and that we weren't even close to that much preparation. To all the people who suggested I just jettison my family members - no. Never. As for my family needing me, not my carcass, I am talking about a situation where we are all starving and we all go. I'm not talking about committing suicide because I'm depressed that things are so hard. I'm not afraid of hardship. I'm talking about a situation where we are going to die. Isn't informing yourself about quick and painless death just another form of preparation? Does it have to mean I'm a nutcase? And let me reiterate - I'm not saying it will ever come to that. But like with all Y2K preparations, if you wait to see what you'll need, it will be too late.

-- Beetle (layinglow@present.com), October 08, 1999.

...

Beetle,

Pray, listen, think and act.

I know this isn't easy for alot of us. But many people around us are in a serious stupor about y2k. They just don't understand what they face. I feel sorry for them, that they have been so seriously hoodwinked.

Fear pure and simple guides them. They won't admit that it's fear, but it's on their faces.

Every one of your relatives, friends and others can and will become a part of your solution. Give it time. Be patient.

When times get tough, they will learn quickly. They can go out searching for fallen tree limbs, bark or anything else that burns to help heat your wood stove.

They will be there for you when you need them.

Be there now for them when they don't know what they need. They may be afraid to face the truth, but don't let that bother you today.

Use your strength to stay alive.

Listen to the other constructive posts.

Pray, listen, think and act.

:0)

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 08, 1999.


Beetle,

Because I have MS, I have given this serious thought. And, I have the medication to do it.

I keep coming back to the thought that every day and moment of life is a GIFT, and to throw it away like trash is to treat a magnificent gift ungratefully. My life has many many difficult moments. But there are still some wonderful moments. I expect Y2K will have many many difficult moments. But there will be some wonderful moments too. The sun will still shine, the trees will still grow, the flowers will still blossom. I agree with the poster that attitude is fundamental to survival.

Your adult family will suffer the consequences of their actions or inactions. You are only responsible for your part. You have done your part. To take on their suffering is to take on their consequences. It is a decision.

The will to live is strong, Beetle, and often we only find out how strong when we are tested. So many people say if they were in this or that situation they would commit suicide. Then when they are really in that situation they change their minds. So it has been for me.

If you continue to have thoughts of killing yourself, please call the Crisis Clinic in your area. They are there 24 hours a day to talk to about your feelings. They are trained to listen and try to understand.

Please make the decision to risk living. Yes, it will be hard. If Y2K it is bad, I probably won't make it. But, I will savor each day I am given as the gift that it is, even as I suffer and perhaps die.

I love life. Take some time to love life too. There is always something to love about life.

Blessings and peace to you, Beetle.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), October 08, 1999.


Beetle, If you can afford a book you can afford a small hand buck saw. Can the paranoia , go to the local sallie Ann botique ( Salvation Army) and pick up some used heavy clothing. Sell your computer and Buy some bulk foods 100lbs of beans, 100lbs of feed corn ,100lbsof rice. This will get you into spring. You can spend 100- 200 Dollars and be covered, Gather up everything that you have laying around and garage sale. Canvas the neighborhood and get busy doing odd jobs for quick cash. Indians lived thru some terrible plains winters in tepee's. find the most heavy sleeping bag and have it ready. save your breath on converting the folks . And NO ONE on this forum really Knows what the depth of the dis-location and what will follow. so quit feeling sorry for yourself and get busy partner , And the rest of you who answered this string with your sick jokes should be ashamed of yourself--you flaming ,sick pricks. And what goes around comes around--Good luck Kid, use your wits and you'll be fine--It's not the end of the world and it just might be a great adventure!

-- Merek (merek @aloha.net), October 08, 1999.

Beetle,

It would seem that most of those answering did not catch your question. The reason might be that you muddled in self pity about no money and needing firewood before asking it.

To answer your question directly. No, I have not thought about "it".

Since your so dang broke, SEND THE BOOK BACK! Hey, speaking of that, if your so dang broke, how'd you get the money to buy it? YOU MUST BE A COLLEGE PSYCH STUDENT DOING RESEARCH FOR SOME DANG STUPID THANATOLOGY CLASS or something like that.

Either way. A bottle of acetaminophin (any brand will do) will send you to your eternal doom quite quickly and quite painlessly. Remember though. No parties where you would be going. No blissfull experiences. Just loneliness. Utter and eternal loneliness that will make your soul and spirit very sad.

I like the idea of hanging out at a 7-11 myself. Much more interesting. Course it might even work if you hangout within 5 miles of a 7-11.

I still say that YOU MUST BE A COLLEGE PSYCH STUDENT DOING RESEARCH.

-- the Virginian (unbelievable@unbelievable.unbelievable), October 08, 1999.


Thank you so much for your post Leslie.

Beetle,

Those of us who have already had to face our mortality, can offer meaningful advice to others.

I have MG and now probably some MS. And I'm at peace with it.

Don't give up. Look at the sky and smile. Your alive, that's good, be happy that your alive. We only get a short time here. Love life as best you can.

Live to serve others in some small way whenever you can. Give up the part of ego that demands so much and gives nothing.

Convert your negatives into help for others. Where you feel weak you can be strong.

You are not alone.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 08, 1999.


I'm not a psyche student, I promise. I'm not depressed. I'm not afraid. I will do everything I can to live. Thank you for your kind thoughts, everyone who had them. I appreciate the compassion. But I stand by my statement that if it comes to it, I will not be passive about my death. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. My attitude is the same as everyone who is preparing, i.e., hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

I know I'm asking for it, but I'd also like to say that this "positive attitude" stuff is starting to get on my nerves. If having a possitive attitude was all that was necessary nothing bad would ever happen to anyone, would it? This idea that if you try hard enough you can make anything happen is a Hollywood movie ending. Sometimes, in the real world, it's just not enough to be positive. That's not a negative attitude, it's just reality.

-- Beetle (layinglow@present.com), October 08, 1999.


Oh come on Beetle, you just haven't looked blissfully into the sky and thought, oh joy, I am alive. Go outside tomorrow and look up into the sky and say. I am alive. Say it now Beetle. I am alive. I am alive. I AM alive. i am ALIVE.

Do this tomorrow Beetle. You will see the light. You will feel the peace. You will know the feeling of the universe. You will be at one. Your life will be full of Rainbows forevermore. You will want to join Greenpeace. You will be automatically registered as a member of the Sierra Club. You will be ready for anything Y2K can throw at you because you know all there is a need to know.

Now cut the garbage..... You ARE DOING SOME SORT OF RESEARCH ON HUMANS!!!!! I STILL THINK IT HAS ROOTS IN PSYCH WITH A BENT TOWARDS THANATOLOGY.

A TRUTH: It rains on the good the bad and the ugly. The sun shines on the good the bad and the ugly. Just plain and simple the way it is.

-- the Virginian (I have been looking for Trampus, anyone seen him?) (unbelievable@unbelievable.unbelievable), October 08, 1999.


I'm not a religious person. But your soul / energy / spirit will not be pleased if you forcefully remove it from your body. If you and your family really must starve to death, do not leave them to bear the suffering alone. Fight until the "end", as it were.

-- Klar (klarbrunn@lycos.com), October 08, 1999.

Beetle,

Yes there are worse things than death. Slow agonizing death, for example, is just one of them. You are not crazy to be looking at these issues. Our culture is obsessed with death as entertainment but does not allow people the right to die when their quality of life has made their day to day reality a living hell.

To the rest of youz guys.

People kill themselves every day by inches. Through cigarettes, booze, coffee and abusive relationships. Let he or she who is without self-destructive coping mechanisms throw the first stone.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), October 08, 1999.


Well said R

I think many folks missed the point of Beetles Q in this thread...

Personally if it gets terminal I hope I have the courage to expedite the inevitable

-- matt (matt@somewhere.nz), October 08, 1999.


Beetle,

You seem determined to be in control of your own death. The main point seems to be that you do not wish to watch your family linger in starvation/privation. You also mention 'dying with dignity'. You also seems to want suicide to be as easy and painless as possible. You absolutely insist on being with your DGI family as they experience starvation/hypothermia, etc.

I'm sorry that you insist on making your life this difficult. Maybe it is not a choice, I do not know. It seems that you have made alot of choices which are set in stone and which you are unwilling to consider as choices. It seems that you have tied yourself to a millstone.

Suicide is an out for those who are in isolation and despair and pain. You may not recogize that you are there right now. Maybe you are not in touch with your real feelings about your life with/without your family. I don't know. I'm asking so that you might ask yourself, not answer me.

Once I considered suicide. I had a gun. It was cocked and in my hand, ready. I thought about the isolation and despair of my life. I thought about not wanting to face another day of it so alone. I thought about the finality of it. I thought about the pain it would cause my parents. I was nine years old at the time. As my mother drove in the driveway I put the gun back in the drawer and forgot about it.

I would suggest that you not get that book. The reason? If you decide to take your own life you should face the greatest hurdles possible, not have the easiest time doing it. If there are any children around in your family who survive you will have put temptation straight in their path for the rest of their lives. Suicide is a family thing you know. Once you let that monster loose you can not put it back in the bottle.

You must make a choice now. Will you live till the end of your natural life striving to demostrate a life filled with courage and self sacrifice for the good of yourself and others and only let death come at its own time and place?

If you will die why not die carrying that last piece of wood in from the wood pile, or searching for that last scap of food for the children, or trying to reach the last thread of hope? Let your life say this 's/he never gave up hope for life'.

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), October 08, 1999.


You would take your life why,because you fear suffering?That's the primary condition of this transitional condition.You need to start working on you "can do" attitude now,it's what being a "gi"is about.Yes,we might die next year(that's always been the case,but our weak,soft lifestyles of entitlement distract and entertain us away from that fact)but it doesn't mean we should lie down and snivel ourselves to death because we won't have rich,fatty food next year.100 pounds of rice is still 25 bucks,so instead of feeling sorry for yourself start making things happen.You might not be happy next year living off of white rice,but this world of pain has never really been about you being happy,it's just that our incredibly soft lifestyle has allowed even the poorest of us can waddle around with an extra hundred pounds of stored fat.Let go of your attachment to an ease of lifestyle and prepair to learn from your suffering.Start putting on extra body fat now while you can.You might very well die next year along with your dgi family but you have the choice whether or not it's a chicken shit death.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 08, 1999.

Well said, Zoob.

Our own death is always nearby. We simply choose to ignore it most times, out of fear and denial. It is one of the more difficult concepts to accept one's own death. Not only to accept, but to embrace, consult and even befriend your own death. These things can enhance your strength and serenity.

There are many, many things worse than your own death. Fear it not. It can be your best friend, and most powerful ally. It is always with you.

Godspeed,

-- Pinkrock (aphotonboy@aol.com), October 08, 1999.


Beetle, I'm a nurse, and I've done some work with people who have been suicidal in hard times. Please, close that door right now. Send the book back, and don't even give yourself the option of ending it all if Y2K gets really bad. During the Holocause, the people who survived were the ones who told themselves that they were going to survive. The ones who died were the ones who gave up and slowly dried up and blew away. If you're worried about your family eating, find a "wild foods" class today. We live in an era where people don't know that there is food outside under their noses. Dandelions, cattails, certain types of cactuses,lizards, wild animals, etc. are all edible. Suicide is something that a family NEVER recovers from. Last night, we had dinner at the home of some friends. His mother had kiled herself years ago, and it is the defining event of his life. Even now, forty years later, he cannot bring himself to ask his wife to drive to the hardware store to buy anything, because his father had asked his mother to go to the store to buy nails. She bought rat poison instead, and never came home. If a family member were to find you, you would be smelly from laying in your own urine and feces, and the room would smell of death immediately. God cares for you, and you can trust that He will be with you even if times are hard. In the Bible, the prophet Habakkuk wrote, "Thought the fig tree do not blossom, nor fruit be on the vines, the produce of the olive fail and the flocks yield no food, the flock be cut off from the fold, and there be no herd in the stalls, yet will I rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation." (Habakkuk 3:17-18) Hang in there--life is good. You are getting one chance to make an impact on this earth. People who kill themselves cause others to forget about the impact of their lives, and to consider only how they died. Just by being a GI, you are ready to help others. God loves you, and you are going to have a special ministry to people who may go through some hard times.

-- Ann M. (hismckids@aol.com), October 08, 1999.

Beetle,

I've always been on my own in business. Actually not much of a businessman, handyman, electrical, plumbing, carpentry, furniture refinishing, kitchen and bath remodeling, room additions, auto repair, countertop installations etc. even tried selling fire wood for a short while. I work fast and fairly effeciently. People ask when I'm done..."How did you do that, and so fast." I tell them, "Well, I start at the beginning and finish at the end." It's in the mind. You can do it.

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), October 08, 1999.


Your life is not your own. "You have been bought with a price. So glorify God in your body" (1 Cor 6:20).

Suffering has meaning. It prepares and purifies us for the life to come.

Never give up.

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), October 08, 1999.


You know,

I am a diehard conspiratist. Black helicopters, Trilateral Commission, CFR, other various U.N. garbage, heck, I'd even say that Rush is part of the deal, but some of you give folks in the FBI good reason to be concerned.

-- the Virginian (Still looking for Trampus, anyone seen him?) (unbelievable@unbelievable.unbelievable), October 08, 1999.


Acquainted withthe Night - Robert Frost

I have been one acquainted with the night.
I have walked out in rain -- and back in rain.
I have outwalked the furthest city light.
I have looked down the saddest city lane.
I have passed by the watchman on his beat
And dropped my eyes, unwilling to explain.
I have stood still and stopped the sound of feet
When far away an interrupted cry
Came over houses from another street,
But not to call me back or say good-bye;
And further still at an unearthly height,
One luminary clock against the sky
Proclaimed the time was neither wrong nor right.
I have been one acquainted with the night.



-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), October 08, 1999.

Beetle,

Take yourself out right now. There will be more for the others.

-- doit (doit@rightnow.com), October 08, 1999.


Wow, what an interesting thread. Lots of good points made.

Beetle, you don't need a book to off yourself. Most methods are pretty simple. Look thru the book at the store, if you're really curious about it, but then leave it there & move on.

We're all dead soon enough.

-- no one knows (what@happens.next), October 08, 1999.


One of my spiritual teachers usedto tell a story about two frogs who got into a pail of milk and couldn't get out. They had to just swim and swim to keep from drowning. One of them lost heart and said "There is no use in going on. We are doomed anyway. Let's just stop swimming now and get it over with." He did that. The other frogm though, thought "I can swim a long time!" and just kept swimming. After his churning frog legs swam and swam, the milk was churned into butter. He climbed up onto a chunk of butter and hopped out of the pail. This story is not only for Beetle, but for those with MS, etc. Even MS is not reversible. I have a friend who was in a wheelchair with MS for years (The doctors told her she would live and die in a nursing home, and she immediately made up her mind that she would NOT.) who has a strong spirit and has also made great changes in her attitude and diet, etc. First she was able to walk with a walker, and now she can walk some without it. (Feel free to contact me for info.) The great spiritual teachers talk and talk and talk about the importance of attitude. We all have the power to choose our attitude, and to master our own mind. We are our own worst enemy or our own best friend. From attitude, thoughts. From thoughts, actions. From actions, our life. Every MOMENT is a choice for or against Life.

-- Shivani Arjuna (SArjuna@aol.com), October 08, 1999.

Final Exit is an excellent book. I keep a copy in my library. I would urge you to keep and read it - somewhere on the other side of more preparations. It gives very good advise on what NOT to do, should the need ever arise.

Derek Humphry, the author, makes it very clear that he is writing the book for the terminally ill, not the depressed. This is a subject I have very strong personal feelings about. If I get time someday, perhaps I'll explain why.

Having said that, it does not appear that you have a terminal illness.

For the next few months, I urge you to focus your energies on doing more to prepare to live. Thinking about the potential risks posed by Y2K can be extremely depressing. You should give yourself a reality check every day. Keep asking yourself the following questions:

  1. Are things bad right now? Nope.

  2. Is Y2K certain to bring devastation? Nope.

  3. Is it possible that Y2K might cause disruptions that might impact my life in some way? Yep.

  4. Are those impacts certain to be severe in my area? Nope.

  5. Are there things I can do without money to improve my odds of surviving mild to moderate disruptions? Yep.

  6. Are you prepared for Y2K to have no impact at all on your life? Are you prepared for a range of effects starting at zero and going up from there?
  7. Can you use your remaining time creatively? Yep.
In short, while I think Final Exit is an excellent book and wish there were more books like it, I don't think it is especially useful in the context of Y2K.

Get busy and use your remaining time wisely. Unless you have a terminal illness, you should be at least a thousand times more prepared to live than you are to die.

Mrs. Rimmer and I believe that Y2K poses a risk - a risk that could be realized as merely a few inconveniences or possibly something more serious. But for a huge range of possibilities, there are LOTS of things that can be done to minimize your exposure.

Water is still close to free and is the single most important thing you can store.

Get moving. Leave thinking about death and dying for later...

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), October 08, 1999.


"Get busy living,or get busy dying"-S.King

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 08, 1999.

"Personally if it gets terminal I hope I have the courage to expedite the inevitable" - Thank you Matt!

Let me say it again: I'm not depressed. I'm not afraid. I will make all the preparations I am able to make. I am willing live on tree bark if it comes to that. I'm used to living close to the ground. I will not desert my family. I know that I am a human being and as such am able to accomplish amazing things. I'm not going into this with a "what's the use" attitude. Maybe I can just see a bigger picture than most people. I can imagine a time when my positive attitude is moot. Are some of you so arrogant that you think you can control everything as long as you have a positive attitude? Aside from the kind, if misguided words, the best answer I heard was from Dave, who admitted that I could suffer and die, but that it would purify me for the next life. At least he admits the possibility of death.

-- Beetle (layinglow@present.com), October 08, 1999.


Hang in there! The fun is only starting!

Seriously, there are any number of actions you can take to obtain firewood (for example...). Such as going to your local National Forest and finding out if they are selling firewood permits. One in California sold firewood permits (very reasonable) to collect the limbwood from a logging operation. You could obtain 4-6 cords/day with just your time and a pickup. Yeah, it would have to be cut (got a crosscut saw) and some even split (Maul or wedges and sledge hammer). But is was cheap!

It is not too late to continue low cost preparations...Keep it up until the very end. Then hit a GREAT new year's party...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), October 09, 1999.


Join the military.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), October 09, 1999.

What the hell do you mean by that there Paula...

You do NOT want to go there...

Beetle...Cheer up man... hava drink and relax! If'n you start worring about cashing in chips now...manoman, why even bother posting to begin with? you need a drink...\_/ ;)

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), October 09, 1999.


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